Sutton's Banner

[ChicoHog]

Eddie built the program.
We were a big fat nothing playing in an arena that had dirt floors under the bleachers, you couldn't give the basketball tickets away much less get someone to pay for them. In a few short years, Barnhill became one of the most feared places to play in the country. You still have commentators talk about how loud it was in there. Eddie deserves thanks from anyone who loves Hog basketball today.
To me it never had been Eddie vs Nolan - they both did GREAT things here.
To this day I remember the moment I heard that Eddie was leaving for Kentucky. I wanted to cry.

Another great post.  Erie-I agree with you on a lot of stuff on MMQB but we are as far apart as humanly possible on many Jump Ball issues especially regarding this topic.  Sutton was a fantastic coach who left for a better opportunity.  Heck Louisville forgave Petrino for going to Atlanta and they hired him back.  I will always love Sutton for what he did here and hold no ill will towards him whatsoever. 

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Another great post.  Erie-I agree with you on a lot of stuff on MMQB but we are as far apart as humanly possible on many Jump Ball issues especially regarding this topic.  Sutton was a fantastic coach who left for a better opportunity.  Heck Louisville forgave Petrino for going to Atlanta and they hired him back.  I will always love Sutton for what he did here and hold no ill will towards him whatsoever.

That's because you and I are kind, forgiving souls and Erie is a heartless, soul-snatching agent of doom.

[Kevin]

3 successful coaches left. 

What is the common denominator

[majestic]

Do we have any former coaches that are held in high-esteem at all?

[ChicoHog]

Do we have any former coaches that are held in high-esteem at all?

John McDonnell for sure.  Probably Holtz also. 

[Atlhogfan1]

John McDonnell for sure.  Probably Holtz also.

+Norm

[Athog]

Sorry, he crawled to Kentucky so let them hang a banner for him.

He put this program on the map!!! Make sure you know all the facts before talking.

[BadHog]

No one is forgetting anything--and that's the point.

Eddie did the one thing that isn't forgiveable.  He forsook the program for another.  There is no, and can be no justification for it.

He wanted to crawl to Kentucky?  He can stay there until they honor him.   He dumped upon any legacy he built here,  and buried it.   

No forgiveness for Eddie.  Ever.

I'm kinda feeling the same way about it. I have never felt the love for Sutton but I sure did for Nolan.

[pigture perfect]

I'm kinda feeling the same way about it. I have never felt the love for Sutton but I sure did for Nolan.

See, I was sad when Sutton left, because I knew he would have brought us continued greatness. When Nolan left, I was glad because it became more about him and his issues than what was best for the University. His ship had sailed and was sinking fast.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Eddie and Nolan. The two greatest.
I don't have a problem with Nolan betting a banner first because of the national championship.
But I'm shocked that Eddie doesn't already have one. What took so long? Everybody knows he built Ark basketball. Nine NCAAs and a Final 4 starting from nothing.
Everybody except one person here also knows his 'crawling to KY' had a lot to do with some feud with Frank. I knew that at the time, much less now. I really didn't even think much about it then, or now.

Furthermore, I'm amazed how Eddie isn't already in the Hall of Fame. Over 800 wins, and four different schools to the NCAA tournament, with two Final 4s. How in the heck does that NOT get you in the Hall of Fame already?

[Inhogswetrust]

98 betrayals does not vindicate, justify, or lessen the 99th.

There is no number of sufficient apologies.  None.   

Yet when you make a mistake not of a criminal nature but something as simple as coming out of your mouth and apologize you would like those that you apologize to, to forgive you. Funny you focus on the one bad thing he did instead of all the good he did here. Without him blazing the trail maybe Nolan doesn't come here and win a NC..............................

[hobhog]

See, I was sad when Sutton left, because I knew he would have brought us continued greatness. When Nolan left, I was glad because it became more about him and his issues than what was best for the University. His ship had sailed and was sinking fast.

Well said

[ChicoHog]

See, I was sad when Sutton left, because I knew he would have brought us continued greatness. When Nolan left, I was glad because it became more about him and his issues than what was best for the University. His ship had sailed and was sinking fast.

Same here. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[hog.goblin]

No one is forgetting anything--and that's the point.

Eddie did the one thing that isn't forgiveable.  He forsook the program for another.  There is no, and can be no justification for it.

He wanted to crawl to Kentucky?  He can stay there until they honor him.   He dumped upon any legacy he built here,  and buried it.   

No forgiveness for Eddie.  Ever.

Eddie wanted to crawl away from Broyles.  So has every other FB and BB coach under Broyles except for Nutt and Ford.

Broyles did a lot of great things.  Unfortunately he also had a nasty habit of running off great coaches.

[Justagp]

Eddie built the program.
We were a big fat nothing playing in an arena that had dirt floors under the bleachers, you couldn't give the basketball tickets away much less get someone to pay for them. In a few short years, Barnhill became one of the most feared places to play in the country. You still have commentators talk about how loud it was in there. Eddie deserves thanks from anyone who loves Hog basketball today.
To me it never had been Eddie vs Nolan - they both did GREAT things here.
To this day I remember the moment I heard that Eddie was leaving for Kentucky. I wanted to cry.

Great post!

[ErieHog]

Yet when you make a mistake not of a criminal nature but something as simple as coming out of your mouth and apologize you would like those that you apologize to, to forgive you. Funny you focus on the one bad thing he did instead of all the good he did here. Without him blazing the trail maybe Nolan doesn't come here and win a NC..............................

When the one bad thing overshadows everything good he did?  Absolutely.

Screw Eddie.  I wish we'd ban him from any association with the program.

[pigheaded]

Nolan's lawsuit was only news in this state. The rest of the country could have cared less. Time for you to let go.

Eddie deserves a banner and a special place in the hearts of all Hog fans. I think he got a bad rap for the crawl to Kentucky comment anyway. I felt like he meant that it was such a prestigious job that he would crawl there if that was what it took to get there.

Couldn't dammit

Correct English and all that

[Großer Kriegschwein]

98 betrayals does not vindicate, justify, or lessen the 99th.

There is no number of sufficient apologies.  None.

I'd love to hear your opinion on Sam Pittman then.

[farmhawg]

Nolan's lawsuit was only news in this state. The rest of the country could have cared less. Time for you to let go.

Eddie deserves a banner and a special place in the hearts of all Hog fans. I think he got a bad rap for the crawl to Kentucky comment anyway. I felt like he meant that it was such a prestigious job that he would crawl there if that was what it took to get there.

No, he was drunk and that was the only way he could leave the state. What a despicable person and yet because he won everyone loves him.

[GuvHog]

Eddie and Nolan. The two greatest.
I don't have a problem with Nolan betting a banner first because of the national championship.
But I'm shocked that Eddie doesn't already have one. What took so long? Everybody knows he built Ark basketball. Nine NCAAs and a Final 4 starting from nothing.
Everybody except one person here also knows his 'crawling to KY' had a lot to do with some feud with Frank. I knew that at the time, much less now. I really didn't even think much about it then, or now.

Furthermore, I'm amazed how Eddie isn't already in the Hall of Fame. Over 800 wins, and four different schools to the NCAA tournament, with two Final 4s. How in the heck does that NOT get you in the Hall of Fame already?

I lost a lot of respect for Eddie when he left here. Not because of the "Crawl" statement but because of his problems with alcohol. However when he looked into the camera in tears later on and profusely apologized to the U of A, the Hog fans, and his former players for having made that statement, he gained all of my respect back and then some. He said that statement was meant for only one person: Frank Broyles. I agree it shouldn't be Eddie verses Nolan, both did great things at the U of A and both deserve banners in the rafters of BWA. I do believe it was appropriate that Nolan's banner was placed there first because he did lead a Hog team to a national title.

[rtr]

No Eddie means No Nolan.

[Inhogswetrust]

When the one bad thing overshadows everything good he did?  Absolutely.

Screw Eddie.  I wish we'd ban him from any association with the program.

Except that one bad thing hurt nobody and thus does NOT overshadow any good he did here.

[ErieHog]

Except that one bad thing hurt nobody and thus does NOT overshadow any good he did here.

It hurts *everyone* and *everything* ever associated with our program.

Short of turning us into the NCAA for a host of violations on his watch, there isn't anything else that he could have done that could have remotely approached his misconduct on the way out the door.

Boo Eddie at every available opportunity; the man has more than earned a permanent disassociation with Razorback basketball.

[Sed76]

He put this program on the map!!! Make sure you know all the facts before talking.

I do know the facts and that is my opinion. Mine and mine alone. If you or anyone else wants to hang a banner feel free, I just don't support it. God forbid anyone have a differing opinion.

[OS2 (SW) Razor Back]

Not even remotely similar;  Nolan was mistreated by our administration, and sued.  It was bad, but it was understandable.

Betraying our program to go to Kentucky is the very definition of unforgiveable.    We covered up for Eddie's alcoholism for a decade,  gave him a pass for his poor behavior, and he returned the loyalty by leaving. 

I'll continue to boo Eddie Sutton at every opportunity, and mourn that our program treats him with anything other than the well-earned contempt he deserves.

Get over yourself man. Frank also pushed out Lou Holtz. Brother 10.000,000,000 Chinese can't be wrong.
If it wasn't for Eddie we would be the Auburn (at best) of SEC basketball. I too was bitter when Eddie left however,as decades went by we all know that Frank was on a power trip and hindered more than helped the entire Razorback program.

[Mr. Porkleone]

Anyone who leaves in that fashion, deserves to be shunned.   Eddie could have said little to nothing about it, and treated it like a business decision-- which does happen-- but he 'crawled on his knees'.    He repudiated Arkansas.   That's unforgivable.

Your a sad miserable person that has a heart of hate.  Everyone deserves forgiveness. Your kinda like that family member at Christmas that everyone dreads to be around.  So much hate in your comments.

[Tejano Jawg]

My feelings for Eddie have changed over the years. I went from wishing nothing but failure for him during his Kentucky days, to starting to be okay with him during his Okie State days. Now, I'm over it.

But when I remember back to those early years—with the Triplets, specifically the first big year—it was such a magical time. I can't erase how great that was. And Sutton was the reason. The good far outweighed the bad.

When Delph and Brewer were juniors and Moncrief was a sophomore, slowly the word was getting out—there's a thing called "Razorback basketball." At the center of it all were 3 6-4 players, all from Arkansas, all with their own skill set, but all incredible. And man, could they ever run the floor. I was in 8th grade—my coach was also my science teacher. We'd start each class by talking about the most recent Razorback game. Everyone at school was talking about it.

Only a handful of games were televised, but we were always glued to the radio. There was a strange thing one of the NWA channels did—they would occasionally replay a game that had happened earlier that evening. Anyone remember that? The actual game may have ended at 10, but at 10:30, they'd show the whole game. I'd always talk my folks into letting me stay up and watch it (which actually wasn't too hard to do, because they were into it too.)

Being around for the birth of modern Razorback basketball was pretty dang cool. That imprint is too strong. And those teams sure helped you get through the winter.

[razCzar]

I can trace my family's love for Razorbacks all the way back to dad's membership in the "new" Razorback Club in NE Arkansas, to our journey to the '61? Cotton Bowl vs Duke, and notably (here) to mother's adoration with Razorback basketball because of Coach Sutton.  I can only faintly recall occasional hush-hush comments about his drinking but nothing that really took away from his coaching. 

I tend to view a man for his life-long body of work - above such personal issues - and support the recognition which Arkansas and OkState have chosen to bestow.
Here is the '14 Cowboy perspective:
The Eddie Sutton Dichotomy
http://www.ocolly.com/sports/article_a21f21cc-8c5c-11e3-b6d3-0017a43b2370.html

[Inhogswetrust]

It hurts *everyone* and *everything* ever associated with our program.

Short of turning us into the NCAA for a host of violations on his watch, there isn't anything else that he could have done that could have remotely approached his misconduct on the way out the door.

Boo Eddie at every available opportunity; the man has more than earned a permanent disassociation with Razorback basketball.

Misconduct....what misconduct? He had an issue that didnt directly affect you. He said something you didn't like and you are blowing it WAY out of proportion. He OWED us nothing when he left. As I said IF you use your thought process then a big majority of coaches that leave any program should be disassociated with their former school. A LOT of people say something about their former boss when they leave a job that the boss might not like. Heck I've done that myself couple of times for a couple of bosses and even companies. Good thing they don't have the death penalty for speeding 5 miles over the speed limit because with that of overreaction you probably think the speeder should be given the death penalty.

[HognitiveDissonance]

My feelings for Eddie have changed over the years. I went from wishing nothing but failure for him during his Kentucky days, to starting to be okay with him during his Okie State days. Now, I'm over it.

But when I remember back to those early years—with the Triplets, specifically the first big year—it was such a magical time. I can't erase how great that was. And Sutton was the reason. The good far outweighed the bad.

When Delph and Brewer were juniors and Moncrief was a sophomore, slowly the word was getting out—there's a thing called "Razorback basketball." At the center of it all were 3 6-4 players, all from Arkansas, all with their own skill set, but all incredible. And man, could they ever run the floor. I was in 8th grade—my coach was also my science teacher. We'd start each class by talking about the most recent Razorback game. Everyone at school was talking about it.

Only a handful of games were televised, but we were always glued to the radio. There was a strange thing one of the NWA channels did—they would occasionally replay a game that had happened earlier that evening. Anyone remember that? The actual game may have ended at 10, but at 10:30, they'd show the whole game. I'd always talk my folks into letting me stay up and watch it (which actually wasn't too hard to do, because they were into it too.)

Being around for the birth of modern Razorback basketball was pretty dang cool. That imprint is too strong. And those teams sure helped you get through the winter.

I absolutely remember that.
Many games were shown at 10:30 after the news. My most vivid memories would be of Sidney's senior year (1979) watching several games in that fashion. One stands in my mind in particular; I think once Sidney had 30 points and 18 rebounds in a game and I want to say Oklahoma.
What a player. How does a 6'4 guard get 18 rebounds?

[GuvHog]

No Eddie means No Nolan.

Exactly. Eddie laid the foundation and left the program in very good condition then Nolan took it to another level. If it wasn't for how good a shape Eddie left the program in, Nolan would likely have never taken the Head Hog job.

[GuvHog]

It hurts *everyone* and *everything* ever associated with our program.

Short of turning us into the NCAA for a host of violations on his watch, there isn't anything else that he could have done that could have remotely approached his misconduct on the way out the door.

Boo Eddie at every available opportunity; the man has more than earned a permanent disassociation with Razorback basketball.

It doesn't hurt near as bad as a head Coach filing a lawsuit against the University. After all, Eddie did apologize. I'm still waiting for Nolan to apologize for filing that lawsuit. I'll probably be waiting the rest of my life.

[TexomaRazorback]

I've been through the lawsuit thing. Eddie let it go. Nolan punished the UofA. Eddie is the stand up man.

[TexomaRazorback]

And an adder that Nolan has never admitted his transgressions. Watch the espn 30 on 30.  Pretty much sums it up.

[hawkhawg]

I'm fine with Sutton getting a banner.  Banners make us look better. I say put a banner up for :  Day, Mayberry, big O, Kleine, Delph, Brewer, beck, Thurman.  I would even put a joe Johnson banner up just because recruits would know him.

[HotlantaHog]

Is Lou Holtz honored at RRS? Seems a similar situation ...

[HognitiveDissonance]

Is Lou Holtz honored at RRS? Seems a similar situation ...

Not at all.
Frank Broyles is the architect of Arkansas football as we know it. He also won a version of a national championship.
Eddie Sutton is the architect of Arkansas basketball as we know it.
Nolan Richardson took Ark basketball to the next level and won a national championship.

Lou Holtz is neither. Lou should be fondly remembered for some great moments and I believe he is(definitely by me), but his historical and lasting impact isn't quite the same as those guys.

[HotlantaHog]

I guess I think of Lou as a legendary coach who spent seven generally very good years at Arkansas, agree he isn't responsible for building the program ... Just as you say fondly remembered ... and I guess like Broyles, Sutton and Nolan, he was something of a larger than life figure ...

Anyway, I am fine with honoring Frank, now that Nolan is back in the fold. Might have seemed inappropriate timing to do this five or six years ago...