A lot of y'all say we need to recruit better

[NashvilleHog]

We are in the same boat that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are in.  Both have to recruit from a very small talent pool in Oklahoma and both have rosters full of kids from Texas.  I think at one point, Oklahoma State had over 60 kids from Texas.  I don't know how we can get more kids from Texas on our roster, but I like our strategy of going into Louisiana more. 

Solutions-

1- Join Big 12 and play bunch of games in Texas every year.  Since this is not desirable from a competition or $$$ standpoint, see #2
2- Throw $$$ at the best recruiters around to come to coach.  Services like 247 and others rank the best recruiters.  Invest in a rainmaker to come get it done.
3- Pending the outcome of the NCAA investigation into Ole Miss football, start throwing money at kids. If Ole Miss gets a slap on the wrist, it's going to be open season and we will have to pay to play.  If they get hammered, that may level the playing field in our direction for a little bit

Ultimately, I hate to see the hand-wringing after losing to Alabama.  Everyone loses to them.  Even with Petrino having our best teams in a generation, we were losing to them and LSU.  We have to overcome our deficiencies with great coaching and schemes and have a little luck along the way.  As things are, 8-4 is going to be about our baseline with some years above and some below.  Accepting that makes things a lot more enjoyable. 

[Danny J]

Then many more will fail and you will get half the guys you recruited gone before their eligibility is up.  Attrition will be huge. Like the 2010 class I believe that had maybe  9 or 10 guys contribute instead of 15 or 20.

Yep...makes no sense to even recruit them if you are a strict disciplinarian once they get here. That consistently puts us behind in terms of retention> development> depth.

Now as far as the rules and being a strict disciplinarian goes that's a whole other thread. Obviously it's nice to have cake and being able to eat it and all...

[Little Lady Back]

Ole Miss and Cowbell St are in a much better location, and in these kids' lifetimes, have been about as successful as us. Also, many of these kids are from poor families, so yes, staying closer to home is a factor because mama can come watch them play.

If the school was in the delta region of Arkansas, we would recruit better. It's closer to home, and the surroundings are familiar. Fayetteville is a foreign country to a bunch of the big time recruits.

As bad as some may not want to believe this, you are 100% correct! It is what it is... 

[Pork Twain]

Probably one of the hardest schools in the Power 5 to recruit to and lacks a natural recruiting base to draw off of.

[DeltaBoy]

Expand the pool.  Take chances on more risks.  When the police reports become more frequent we know we are getting better. 

I don't think Bielema will go this route and I can respect it.  I'd rather not see the UA in a negative light.  But many don't care and I see their point of view too.  It limits an already limited pool.  It is his career at risk. 

Convince the backwards state of Arkansas to get rid of some superintendents and school boards and consolidate creating some bigger and maybe better football programs.  Ark has a ridiculous amount of small schools.  At least Pulaski County is going to save our basketball program.  What a waste as far as football. 

Federal Judge Henry Wood ruined Central Ark Football.

We got to get more 4-5 Stars earlier and Keep working.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

True, but the turnover is just part of the problem, IMO.

If you're in a place that's not necessarily a talent hotbed, it would make sense to make more offers.  In 2015, here's the number of offers SEC teams made:

Mississippi State:  274
Ole Miss:  229
Alabama:  216
Arkansas:  194
Auburn:  180
LSU:  161
Texas A&M:  118

It's pretty clear the recruiting positions of the top two and the bottom two:  Mississippi State and Ole Miss figure they're going to get told "no" a lot, so they give lots of recruits the opportunity to turn them down.  However, making more offers and making them earlier has worked for both; both schools know they don't stand much of a chance if they get in line late.  They've got to offer often and early.  Most say no, but a few top recruits say yes.

LSU and A&M are in recruiting hotbeds, so they obviously feel like they don't have to issue lots of offers in order to come out ok.  Fine as far as it goes, but it puts more pressure on them to have those offers work out, both as signees and actual contributors.

The one that sticks out to me is Alabama.  They've got everything going for them, and you'd think they could be more selective in their offers; however, it's clear that they're offering fairly often.  Putting recruit quality aside, Bama's offering about 11-12% more often than Arkansas, even though Bama can be much choosier.

Auburn I can't figure.  You'd think their offer strategy would look much like Bama's, but they're offering only about 80% of the kids that Bama offers.  Seems like a curious strategy to me.

2016's numbers pretty much hold these trends.  IMO, Arkansas should adopt a strategy much like the Mississippi schools:  get in early and often.  If you wait too long to find out if they're uncommon, you'll find an uncommon number of other schools already in line ahead of you.  It's the Publisher's Clearing House Theory of Recruiting:  you can't win if you don't enter, so enter as much as you can.

I think it's just different philosophies.  Bama offers so many conditional offers ( think Petteway from Nashville). The kids know it's conditional, but it's  Bama.   The Razorbacks could never get away with that.   At the end of the recruiting cycle Bama sometimes have to pull offers if they have better recruits  wanting to  commit.  If Byers  Grades are not in good shape it would not surprise me If he has his offer pulled.

[Chitlins]

the recruiting issue will never go away. petrino was allegedly a god awful recruiter, yet cbb is supposedly (according to hogville at  least) getting much better players (yet with worse results)? hogville is such a confusing place.

[LZH]

45 minutes from northern Louisiana.

John Fogerty knows his geography! 

"It was down in Louisiana just about a mile from Texarkana....in them ol' cotton fields back home."

[Jim Harris]

We are in the same boat that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are in.  Both have to recruit from a very small talent pool in Oklahoma and both have rosters full of kids from Texas.  I think at one point, Oklahoma State had over 60 kids from Texas.  I don't know how we can get more kids from Texas on our roster, but I like our strategy of going into Louisiana more. 

Solutions-

1- Join Big 12 and play bunch of games in Texas every year.  Since this is not desirable from a competition or $$$ standpoint, see #2
2- Throw $$$ at the best recruiters around to come to coach.  Services like 247 and others rank the best recruiters.  Invest in a rainmaker to come get it done.
3- Pending the outcome of the NCAA investigation into Ole Miss football, start throwing money at kids. If Ole Miss gets a slap on the wrist, it's going to be open season and we will have to pay to play.  If they get hammered, that may level the playing field in our direction for a little bit

Ultimately, I hate to see the hand-wringing after losing to Alabama.  Everyone loses to them.  Even with Petrino having our best teams in a generation, we were losing to them and LSU.  We have to overcome our deficiencies with great coaching and schemes and have a little luck along the way.  As things are, 8-4 is going to be about our baseline with some years above and some below.  Accepting that makes things a lot more enjoyable. 

excellent observations.

[Wildhog]

As things are, 8-4 is going to be about our baseline with some years above and some below.  Accepting that makes things a lot more enjoyable. 

I think we're going to have to go 8-4 at least once before we declare it our baseline with CBB.

[LRHawg]

Moreover, a stabilized LRSD that is graduating kids and has accessible extracurricular activities such as athletics, music, art, etc. is not just good for Little Rock and Central Arkansas, but it is also benefits the entire state including the UofA.   

Perhaps if Wal-Mart money can turn NWA into the utopia it is perceived to be, then perhaps too Wal-Mart money will turn around the LRSD

The Waltons are certainly toying with education in central Arkansas, but not to improve the public schools. They're driving it towards private, which will further hurt the lower-income portion of the city.

[Rzback]

I think we would have a better chance hiring coaches that can coach up and do more with less than we have of recruiting 4 & 5 star recruits from other states.

[ricepig]

The Waltons are certainly toying with education in central Arkansas, but not to improve the public schools. They're driving it towards private, which will further hurt the lower-income portion of the city.

Give them all a scholarship and start WMA in Little Rock, problem solved.

[Jim Harris]

there's no way in hell, all things being equal that Ole Miss and Miss St should out recruit Arkansas....we have far superior facilities....kids in the 21st century aren't afraid to travel to go to college and play ball...it's not like it used to be when baby boy wanted to stay close to maw and paw in Podunk, Georgia...I think we should go ahead and do what everyone else does, in particular, Auburn, pay the top players to come here...that's how sick I am of 24 years of not winning the SEC...if you had told be back in 1992 that we wouldn't have won the SEC by 2016, I would have laughed until I cried in total disbelief

well, one difference now in the 21st century compared to when I was in college in the last two Broyles seasons and Holtz years is, you didn't spend all summer on campus back then. I was glad to go home for the summer; others were glad to stay up for summer school and frolic and take a few hours of classes. Basically every football player who expects to play is on campus 49 weeks a year, maybe 51 if his team is playing over the Christmas holidays. Some kids are probably fine with that at age 17-18, but some from long distances away may not want to spend four straight years, with the exception of a week here or there, that far from home. You have to wonder, as a kid from out of state, what Arkansas can offer me for the whole year that I won't get if I go (a) to one of my in-state Division I schools or (2) if I instead choose a school with better championship tradition, closer to the beach, higher academics, etc. etc.
But what is the same to me from our era and now is, the head coach has to be a good closer on all this. The assistants find the players and set up the players and establish a rapport, and the head coach has to be a closer, and in the SEC has to be a big-time closer. Les Miles, for all his faults that people like to point out, and the way people think Louisiana kids just automatically flock to Baton Rouge (it wasn't true for years until Saban, and he turned off the Evangel bunch before he left), Les Miles is a helluva closer. Saban may scream and holler at guys with a 19-point lead at the end of a game, but whatever he is saying in the living room is working, plus he has a whole lot more to sell than anybody else. Will Muschamp, as crappy a head coach as he's probably going to turn out to be even at SC, and as lunatic as he gets on the sidelines, is an amazing salesman. Kiffin, same, which is why somebody should give him a shot. Ed Orgeron is a helluva recruiter as an assistant and with head coaching experience and can help a head coach close. Frank Broyles was god-like when I was 16-17 years old. It was amazing when he came down to speak at events there, meet players, etc. I havent' heard a former out-of-state player who didn't say that Frank Broyles was chiefly why they picked Arkansas over offers from other top Texas schools, OU, LSU, etc.

[NaturalStateReb]

I think it's just different philosophies.  Bama offers so many conditional offers ( think Petteway from Nashville). The kids know it's conditional, but it's  Bama.   The Razorbacks could never get away with that.   At the end of the recruiting cycle Bama sometimes have to pull offers if they have better recruits  wanting to  commit.  If Byers  Grades are not in good shape it would not surprise me If he has his offer pulled.

Everyone is doing it and getting away with it. You can only sign 25, and your sending out 10 times that many "offers."  Everyone is casting a pretty wide net compared to what you can actually sign, and kids know that. Until a kid is actually signed, everything is conditional.

[jvanhorn]

agree 100000000%

agree 100000000%

You know you live in a "I would vote for Barney if he was running as a Republican" state right?  You might want to check into how that is working out for the public school systems in Oklahoma and Kansas. 

[majp51]

We cant. We have far too many strikes against us before we even get started.
1. We have the smallest in-state recruiting base in the SEC (and its not even close)

How exactly do you figure that?

According to latest published figure (2014 Census Data) Arkansas has a larger population than Mississippi. In addition there are two SEC Schools in that State fighting for talent, and a Third (USM) that has historically been much more of a recruiting threat that ASU will ever be.

Their may be an underlying problem with the High School programs in Arkansas causing an issue with in-state recruiting base, but the population exists.

[hogsanity]

How exactly do you figure that?

According to latest published figure (2014 Census Data) Arkansas has a larger population than Mississippi. In addition there are two SEC Schools in that State fighting for talent, and a Third (USM) that has historically been much more of a recruiting threat that ASU will ever be.

Their may be an underlying problem with the High School programs in Arkansas causing an issue with in-state recruiting base, but the population exists.

Look at the number of fbs signees that come from MS compared to AR. Look at the # of P5 signess from each state. Arkansas has the smallest recruiting base in the sec. Yes, population of AR and MS is close, but fbs athlete production is not.

[majp51]

I'm trying to think of a way to say "let's consolidate all the schools so the razorbacks will recruit better football players" that would be palatable to everyone who doesn't frequent this message board.

Lack of centralized schooling has hit academics as hard or even harder. Kind of Hard to prep kids for College when you ultimately cannot afford top teaching talent. A consolidated school system means little towns may have to bus their kids to the "county" High School, but that HS could afford a teacher who not only understands Calculus but can , in theory, teach AP Calculus to kids. Now obviously Calculus classes don't impact many Athletes, but it does speak to the broader population of kids. Right now we have so many required H.S. that the only person in the smaller districts that understands Calculus is the one person in finance trying to figure out how the administrators make so much money while doing nothing for the kids.

[Wildhog]

Look at the number of fbs signees that come from MS compared to AR. Look at the # of P5 signess from each state. Arkansas has the smallest recruiting base in the sec. Yes, population of AR and MS is close, but fbs athlete production is not.

This.

[majp51]

Look at the number of fbs signees that come from MS compared to AR. Look at the # of P5 signess from each state. Arkansas has the smallest recruiting base in the sec. Yes, population of AR and MS is close, but fbs athlete production is not.

And My point hogsanity, is that indicates not a problem with recruiting base per se, but with something screwed up in the Arkansa school system. That may amount to the same thing, but until the State of Arkansas does something to fix the school system (and not an the university level) nothing will really change.

[Chitlins]

what has killed football in the pine bluff and little rock areas?

[TheGunther]

Lack of centralized schooling has hit academics as hard or even harder. Kind of Hard to prep kids for College when you ultimately cannot afford top teaching talent. A consolidated school system means little towns may have to bus their kids to the "county" High School, but that HS could afford a teacher who not only understands Calculus but can , in theory, teach AP Calculus to kids. Now obviously Calculus classes don't impact many Athletes, but it does speak to the broader population of kids. Right now we have so many required H.S. that the only person in the smaller districts that understands Calculus is the one person in finance trying to figure out how the administrators make so much money while doing nothing for the kids.

Distance learning in college and continuous training in business has grown exponentially over the last 5 years and the experience has improved greatly.  How about we try something radical by having a centralized county school and then the smaller schools get converted to satellite schools that are well equipped with distance learning technologies.

Of course, things like extracurricular activities would have to be worked out, are the sports teams centralized or can the satellite schools have club teams?

[DeltaBoy]

Distance learning in college and continuous training in business has grown exponentially over the last 5 years and the experience has improved greatly.  How about we try something radical by having a centralized county school and then the smaller schools get converted to satellite schools that are well equipped with distance learning technologies.

Of course, things like extracurricular activities would have to be worked out, are the sports teams centralized or can the satellite schools have club teams?

It been political suicide cause Mike Huckabee tryed to do that and he was almost lynched by folks.

[ricepig]

what has killed football in the pine bluff and little rock areas?

PB has won back to back state championships, I think Dollarway has had success in the past decade. LR has success, just at the private schools, although it appears Robinson has or is going through a good talent spurt. Now, most of the talent is offensive players, we really haven't had a lineman from Central Arkansas in a while, to my quickly depleting memory.

[Chitlins]

PB has won back to back state championships, I think Dollarway has had success in the past decade. LR has success, just at the private schools, although it appears Robinson has or is going through a good talent spurt. Now, most of the talent is offensive players, we really haven't had a lineman from Central Arkansas in a while, to my quickly depleting memory.

thanks, i live out of state, had just heard football in hs isnt like it was way back when i was around  (90's)

[ricepig]

thanks, i live out of state, had just heard football in hs isnt like it was way back when i was around  (90's)

I don't think it is, it stopped in about 2005 or so, I believe that's the last year LR Central won a state tournament. PB suffered from some coaching mistakes??, but they appear to have a good one now. I figure the 10-15,000 drop in population has hurt the PB area as well.

[GoHogs1091]

I am to the point that I feel that our recruiting footprint should be only the following.

Arkansas (need to make sure to keep the 2 to 3 SEC level players that are in Arkansas every year)

Tulsa, Muskogee, Oklahoma City, and Lawton  (Tulsa usually always has a couple of good Running Backs; Muskogee and Lawton are very good "sleeper" places for quality talent)

Dallas/Fort Worth area (including Allen and McKinney, etc.) and also Tyler   For those places in North Texas just Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs

Louisiana (for Offensive Linemen, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs)

Memphis/Olive Branch

Georgia (for Offensive Linemen, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs)

Ohio (just for Offensive Linemen)

Pennsylvania (just for Offensive Linemen)

If we are going to get 3 or 4 JUCOs per year then only the Junior Colleges in Kansas, Blinn in Texas, and Navarro in Texas

For those who are wondering why I didn't list Florida, Florida is just too crowded.  Also, we have had some recent issues with some of our Florida signees that lowered our retention.  For a program such as ours, retention is paramount.

[NaturalStateReb]

Lack of centralized schooling has hit academics as hard or even harder. Kind of Hard to prep kids for College when you ultimately cannot afford top teaching talent. A consolidated school system means little towns may have to bus their kids to the "county" High School, but that HS could afford a teacher who not only understands Calculus but can , in theory, teach AP Calculus to kids. Now obviously Calculus classes don't impact many Athletes, but it does speak to the broader population of kids. Right now we have so many required H.S. that the only person in the smaller districts that understands Calculus is the one person in finance trying to figure out how the administrators make so much money while doing nothing for the kids.

Consolidation doesn't magically fix this. If you consolidate a couple of poor districts together, you get one big poor district. Plus, you've got think about the logistics of getting kids to and from schools.

Additionally, more teams means more spots for players, allowing more players to potentially develop into prospects.

[NaturalStateReb]

I am to the point that I feel that our recruiting footprint should be only the following.

Arkansas (need to make sure to keep the 2 to 3 SEC level players that are in Arkansas every year)

Tulsa, Muskogee, Oklahoma City, and Lawton  (Tulsa usually always has a couple of good Running Backs; Muskogee and Lawton are very good "sleeper" places for quality talent)

Dallas/Fort Worth area (including Allen and McKinney, etc.) and also Tyler   For those places in North Texas just Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs

Louisiana (for Offensive Linemen, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs)

Memphis/Olive Branch

Georgia (for Offensive Linemen, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs)

Ohio (just for Offensive Linemen)

Pennsylvania (just for Offensive Linemen)

If we are going to get 3 or 4 JUCOs per year then only the Junior Colleges in Kansas, Blinn in Texas, and Navarro in Texas

For those who are wondering why I didn't list Florida, Florida is just too crowded.  Also, we have had some recent issues with some of our Florida signees that lowered our retention.  For a program such as ours, retention is paramount.

Arkansas needs to be working the I-49/I-30 corridor hard. If you're not winning key recruiting battles there, it puts more pressure on you to lure more kids from out of region, which is hard to do.

[NaturalStateReb]

And My point hogsanity, is that indicates not a problem with recruiting base per se, but with something screwed up in the Arkansa school system. That may amount to the same thing, but until the State of Arkansas does something to fix the school system (and not an the university level) nothing will really change.

Nothing's really going to change until we change the 18th century funding model that relies heavily on local property taxes to fund schools. It practically guarantees inequity.

[ShadowHawg]

Recruiting has been the same as it has been for the last 50 years here.

That's why system is so important when considering a coaching hire here. The coach needs to employ a system that can operate on a high level without out recruiting our rivals, because, well, it's hard to out recruit teams that are consistently number one in recruiting as much as at least 3 of our opponents are.

[ShadowHawg]

Nothing's really going to change until we change the 18th century funding model that relies heavily on local property taxes to fund schools. It practically guarantees inequity.

Actually, topography plays a much bigger role. The natural beauty of our state also creates pockets of isolation and makes distances between facilities much greater than the straight line distance between the two.

[NaturalStateReb]

Actually, topography plays a much bigger role. The natural beauty of our state also creates pockets of isolation and makes distances between facilities much greater than the straight line distance between the two.

It isolates some districts, but those isolated districts are also among the poorer districts. Can't collect much property tax on the wilderness.

[Sportster365]

Hire a guy kids gravitate to and can actually coach a football game. Look at Tenner, prior to Butch Davis' Jones' arrival they weren't only dormant in the SEC-E they were dormant in recruiting as well. In comes Davis Jones and now top 10 recruiting classes year after year since he's been there. Now they're a top 10 program this year. And believe me  its not because Davis Jones is just some heck of a Xs and Os coach, I think he's underperforming for what he has to work with, but the point is he's got enough talent in Knoxville to make up for it.

No need to mention Tenners recruiting budget because it wasn't doing much for them during the Dooley era and besides money isn't a real problem for the Razorback program, they're generally operating in the black.

[ricepig]

Consolidation doesn't magically fix this. If you consolidate a couple of poor districts together, you get one big poor district. Plus, you've got think about the logistics of getting kids to and from schools.

Additionally, more teams means more spots for players, allowing more players to potentially develop into prospects.

Unfortunately, they need the two things they can't get in this environment, more money for athletics, and a more stable home life.

[ricepig]

Hire a guy kids gravitate to and can actually coach a football game. Look at Tenner, prior to Butch Davis' arrival they weren't only dormant in the SEC-E they were dormant in recruiting as well. In comes Davis and now top 10 recruiting classes year after year since he's been there. Now they're a top 10 program this year. And believe me  its not because Davis is just some heck of a Xs and Os coach, I think he's underperforming for what he has to work with, but the point is he's got enough talent in Knoxville to make up for it.

No need to mention Tenners recruiting budget because it wasn't doing much for them during the Dooley era and besides money isn't a real problem for the Razorback program, they're generally operating in the black.

Uh....Jones.....

[ShadowHawg]

It isolates some districts, but those isolated districts are also among the poorer districts. Can't collect much property tax on the wilderness.

Some of the biggest districts in our area would fit your description as well. Just because a particular high school isn't in a rural setting, doesn't mean that a very large portion of its student population lives anywhere near town either, and if the land is declared farm land, revenues will be lower as well. It's not nearly as cut and dried in this state as the discussion on here would lead people to believe.

[IMABIELEMA]

It's always funny to me that there are so many of our fans who think we don't cheat.  I lived with a few players back in '03....trust me,  we take care of our players.

[daprospecta]

We don't do that stuff anymore.
We're near the bottom of the SEC in recruiting, but we're clean.

Every program and I mean EVERY  program "cheats" but unlike sin, some cheats are bigger than others.

[Murr]

How in the name of Zeus' *** do you suggest we "recruit better"?

1.  Figure out Ole Miss' recruiting secrets
2.  Double the money and hookers that style offers
3.  Make it harder for NCAA to prove anything

[Oklahawg]

We tend to worship the ground Saban walks on around here. I get it - he is as good as it gets, ever, as a head coach.

We need to remember the recruitment of Joshua Jacobs, the Bama RB. [see: http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/johnklein/john-klein-the-curious-case-of-joshua-jacobs/article_07bb3827-e62c-5e05-a89c-ac868abc6656.html]

Jacobs had offers from New Mexico and Wyoming when his senior season ended. Two things happened: his film got circulated and he was able to produce a good academic report that indicated he could get on campus at a P5 school.

Suddenly, everyone is recruiting him. NM and Wyoming are not elite D1 schools so his star rating was the lowest of the low 3 stars. Suddenly, Missouri sniffed around and he visited them. OSU and OU came a calling, and got his attention. Arkansas made the mistake of talking to him the same week Bama invited him for a visit, with some pressure. Bama needed a running back and didn't want to dork around. They pressured Jacobs into moving a Missouri visit to mid-week and to hold off on visiting OU. OSU and Arkansas lost out because he ran out of weekends to visit! Of course, he never visited OU because his offer to Bama was conditional on no more visits.

Saban can do that! Chase a kid late because other options fall through and have the player be a gem. Bully a P5 school into doing a mid-week visit, and keep the home state programs from getting a visit all together. That is not going to happen very often.

Kid blew up to be 4-stars (yes, it does happen) and played well vs UA until he fumbled and got hurt. (Not sure if the fumble or the injury kept him off of the field.)

[Oklahawg]

I can't tell if this is legit or not: a rumor floated around HV for a number of years is that LSU under Miles would establish their in-state wish list very early on. They'd get commits early in the process, maybe even as sophomores, and lock the recruits up. They would string along a handful but they had their wish list. Players that blew up late in their HS career could slip through the cracks because LSU would not rescind offers very often.

Another story about LSU: they target certain numbers in every class. If they are only taking, say, 2 DT in the 2016 class, and Briston Guidry is #3 on their list then Guidry doesn't get a commitable offer and UA can swoop in and grab him. In cases like this, LSU gets the players they want but leave behind very good talent. Good enough, I would argue, that the difference between #1 and #3 is marginal at times. Or, development after signing could radically change how those players are rated 3-4 years after their signing.

UA does a decent job of that - finding the player who should be a part of the next tier up but is not. What we need, some day, is to beat LSU (or whomever) for the coveted stud that could go anywhere and make the class. But, they choose UA. Solomon Thomas (DE, now at Stanford) comes to mind.

[Redhogs]

Probably one of the hardest schools in the Power 5 to recruit to and lacks a natural recruiting base to draw off of.

Dumbest post in the history of Hogville.....

[thefisher]

...... there's no way in hell, all things being equal that Ole Miss and Miss St should out recruit Arkansas....

And that is why you do not remotely understand why recruiting to Arkansas will never be on par to other schools ... even the Mississippi schools ... unless there are massive changes in the structural/demographic makeup of the states or high school systems.

I am not just spouting opinions like your post was.  Since you mentioned the Mississippi schools lets take a look at the cold hard fact bottom lines on that front.


2016
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 11 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 67 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2015
The state of Arkansas   produced 5   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 36 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 62 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2014
The state of Arkansas   produced 2   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 14 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 61 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2013
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 12 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 10 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 59 recruits rated 3-5 stars

As a total you can see this-

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 4-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -   13
Mississippi - 39

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 3-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -     87
Mississippi - 249

The state of Mississippi produces 3 times as many upper level elite football athletes as the state of Arkansas
Yes, even the Mississippi schools kick our arse in the high school football talent production. 
THAT is the problem ... always has been ... and will be for the foreseeable future.

I know many want to think Arkansas could just swoop in and scoop those kids up because of the ... "We are Fayetteville ... and we have the Catfish Hole!" mentality.  It just isn't so.

As proof of that I offer these state of Mississippi recruiting facts.

In the last 4 recruiting cycles the state of Mississippi has produced 39 football players rated 4-5 stars. 
Ole Miss gained commitments from 17 of them.
Mississippi State gained commitments from 15 of them.

Thus they retained 32 of the 39 players rated at 4-5 stars to stay in state and play for the Mississippi schools.
The only ones they lost were Bama got 3, LSU got 2, TA&M got 1, 1 had to go JUCO.  They fence their state in as well as anyone. 

Do you see that?  BOTH Mississippi Schools signed more 4-5 star players from Mississippi than the entire state of Arkansas even produced! 

In that same time frame Arkansas signed 10 in state 4-5 star recruits.  Would the Hogs be a better team if they had an extra 5-7 recruits rated at 4-5 stars every few years. YOU BET!

Throw in the fact that the Mississippi schools are producing 3 star recruits at almost triple the rate of Arkansas schools. Many of those are high end 3 stars and very talented.  You see the uphill battle the Hogs face in recruiting against even states like Mississippi. They have overall better players to recruit from and a whole lot more of them!  Plus they are in state, those kids generally want to play close to home if possible, and the coaches then have the ability to spend much more time in the high schools building relationships as they don't have to travel near so far and wide as Arkansas does to find recruits.

THAT is why no coach has yet solved the recruiting problems facing Arkansas. NONE OF THEM.

They are not people problems as much as cold hard demographic facts coupled with Arkansas having little to offer that is a strong enough pull to get kids to pass on offers from other major programs that are closer to home or in an environment an 18 year old would more willingly embrace.

*all recruit ranking data is from 247sports*

[hogsanity]

And that is why you do not remotely understand why recruiting to Arkansas will never be on par to other schools ... even the Mississippi schools ... unless there are massive changes in the structural/demographic makeup of the states or high school systems.

I am not just spouting opinions like your post was.  Since you mentioned the Mississippi schools lets take a look at the cold hard fact bottom lines on that front.


2016
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 11 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 67 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2015
The state of Arkansas   produced 5   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 36 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 62 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2014
The state of Arkansas   produced 2   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 14 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 61 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2013
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 12 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 10 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 59 recruits rated 3-5 stars

As a total you can see this-

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 4-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -   13
Mississippi - 39

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 3-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -     87
Mississippi - 249

The state of Mississippi produces 3 times as many upper level elite football athletes as the state of Arkansas
Yes, even the Mississippi schools kick our arse in the high school football talent production. 
THAT is the problem ... always has been ... and will be for the foreseeable future.

I know many want to think Arkansas could just swoop in and scoop those kids up because of the ... "We are Fayetteville ... and we have the Catfish Hole!" mentality.  It just isn't so.

As proof of that I offer these state of Mississippi recruiting facts.

In the last 4 recruiting cycles the state of Mississippi has produced 39 football players rated 4-5 stars. 
Ole Miss gained commitments from 17 of them.
Mississippi State gained commitments from 15 of them.

Thus they retained 32 of the 39 players rated at 4-5 stars to stay in state and play for the Mississippi schools.
The only ones they lost were Bama got 3, LSU got 2, TA&M got 1, 1 had to go JUCO.  They fence their state in as well as anyone. 

Do you see that?  BOTH Mississippi Schools signed more 4-5 star players from Mississippi than the entire state of Arkansas even produced! 

In that same time frame Arkansas signed 10 in state 4-5 star recruits.  Would the Hogs be a better team if they had an extra 5-7 recruits rated at 4-5 stars every few years. YOU BET!

Throw in the fact that the Mississippi schools are producing 3 star recruits at almost triple the rate of Arkansas schools. Many of those are high end 3 stars and very talented.  You see the uphill battle the Hogs face in recruiting against even states like Mississippi. They have overall better players to recruit from and a whole lot more of them!  Plus they are in state, those kids generally want to play close to home if possible, and the coaches then have the ability to spend much more time in the high schools building relationships as they don't have to travel near so far and wide as Arkansas does to find recruits.

THAT is why no coach has yet solved the recruiting problems facing Arkansas. NONE OF THEM.

They are not people problems as much as cold hard demographic facts coupled with Arkansas having little to offer that is a strong enough pull to get kids to pass on offers from other major programs that are closer to home or in an environment an 18 year old would more willingly embrace.

*all recruit ranking data is from 247sports*

Good work, can't wait to see the inane responses.

[ricepig]

Curious... why do we need to remember that?  Everyone knows Saban and Bama have that kind of pull.

When you have a recruit with one program's logo tattooed on his arm and he then goes to the arch-enemy instead, there are most definitely other forces at work.
To me that's a clearer sign of what's really going on at programs committed to winning. 

We were only going to take two RB's, Whaley had already committed and we thought we had a very good chance with Porter. When Porter announced for Texas, we were too late with Jacobs. RB wasn't a position with great need with Whaley and Hammonds in the fold, any help in the secondary was a greater need.

[Jim Harris]

It's always funny to me that there are so many of our fans who think we don't cheat.  I lived with a few players back in '03....trust me,  we take care of our players.

Different coach.

[jackflash]

I don't our recruiting is that bad we just missed on some important recruits

[Piggfoot]

And that is why you do not remotely understand why recruiting to Arkansas will never be on par to other schools ... even the Mississippi schools ... unless there are massive changes in the structural/demographic makeup of the states or high school systems.

I am not just spouting opinions like your post was.  Since you mentioned the Mississippi schools lets take a look at the cold hard fact bottom lines on that front.


2016
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 11 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 67 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2015
The state of Arkansas   produced 5   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 36 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 62 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2014
The state of Arkansas   produced 2   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 14 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 9   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 61 recruits rated 3-5 stars

2013
The state of Arkansas   produced 3   recruits rated 4-5 stars and 12 recruits rated 3-5 stars
The state of Mississippi produced 10 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 59 recruits rated 3-5 stars

As a total you can see this-

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 4-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -   13
Mississippi - 39

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF 3-5 STAR RECRUITS PRODUCED IN THE 4 YEAR RECRUITING CYCLE
Arkansas -     87
Mississippi - 249

The state of Mississippi produces 3 times as many upper level elite football athletes as the state of Arkansas
Yes, even the Mississippi schools kick our arse in the high school football talent production. 
THAT is the problem ... always has been ... and will be for the foreseeable future.

I know many want to think Arkansas could just swoop in and scoop those kids up because of the ... "We are Fayetteville ... and we have the Catfish Hole!" mentality.  It just isn't so.

As proof of that I offer these state of Mississippi recruiting facts.

In the last 4 recruiting cycles the state of Mississippi has produced 39 football players rated 4-5 stars. 
Ole Miss gained commitments from 17 of them.
Mississippi State gained commitments from 15 of them.

Thus they retained 32 of the 39 players rated at 4-5 stars to stay in state and play for the Mississippi schools.
The only ones they lost were Bama got 3, LSU got 2, TA&M got 1, 1 had to go JUCO.  They fence their state in as well as anyone. 

Do you see that?  BOTH Mississippi Schools signed more 4-5 star players from Mississippi than the entire state of Arkansas even produced! 

In that same time frame Arkansas signed 10 in state 4-5 star recruits.  Would the Hogs be a better team if they had an extra 5-7 recruits rated at 4-5 stars every few years. YOU BET!

Throw in the fact that the Mississippi schools are producing 3 star recruits at almost triple the rate of Arkansas schools. Many of those are high end 3 stars and very talented.  You see the uphill battle the Hogs face in recruiting against even states like Mississippi. They have overall better players to recruit from and a whole lot more of them!  Plus they are in state, those kids generally want to play close to home if possible, and the coaches then have the ability to spend much more time in the high schools building relationships as they don't have to travel near so far and wide as Arkansas does to find recruits.

THAT is why no coach has yet solved the recruiting problems facing Arkansas. NONE OF THEM.

They are not people problems as much as cold hard demographic facts coupled with Arkansas having little to offer that is a strong enough pull to get kids to pass on offers from other major programs that are closer to home or in an environment an 18 year old would more willingly embrace.

*all recruit ranking data is from 247sports*

A few years ago I posted some demographic information and atheltic profiling explaining the problem with recruiting to NWA.  I was blasted from this site presumably by NWA fans most of whom do not have a clue or are in an irreversable state of denial. I honestly believe if we had Saban our recruiting wouldn't be much better. The problem with Arkansas recruiting is frankly Arkansas itself in general and NWA in particular.