SEC Country weighs in on possible new D C

[grayhawg]

3 Names here and one I haven't heard before.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/three-candidates-arkansas-next-defensive-coordinator

[HamSammich]

Lol next year the fans will call for the head of the dline coach. You people are chopping off the wrong heads.

[Hawghiggs]

 I would like to see Rhodes get the job. But he should be the only one that is kept on the Defensive side on the ball. Bringing Partridge back as a D-line coach would be a plus also.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Interesting about the UCF DC and his ties to Bielema.

[forrest city joe]

Lol next year the fans will call for the head of the dline coach. You people are chopping off the wrong heads.

The DL coach should be fired just like the DC. everyone who coach this pitiful defense should be gone.Band-Aid moves won't cut it.

[WildRazorback]

There was a comment on that article mentioning Gene Chizik. I haven't seen his name making rounds this year, but I thought I'd heard it tossed around previously. Obviously not a first choice, and I don't know what his contract situation is with North Carolina, but they had a better defense than we did this year so might as well put him on the board too.

[HardCore]

Rob Ryan 

[RyeHogFan]

I just want whatever it takes to not have a historically bad defense again.

[RyeHogFan]

Sorry for the split infinitive

[Redhogs]

Lol next year the fans will call for the head of the dline coach. You people are chopping off the wrong heads.

Agreed. Bert needs to go. Needs to be strolling the sands of Jamaica with sandals in hand.

[Fatty McGee]

Swap all the coaches you want and pay them ever more salary.  Talent will still be 80-90% of college football.

[PonderinHog]

Swap all the coaches you want and pay them ever more salary.  Talent will still be 80-90% of college football.

I wonder how many SEC teams would swap talent with us, straight up.

[Fatty McGee]

I wonder how many SEC teams would swap talent with us, straight up.

Not many.  It's why I've always said the best thing for Arkansas, in terms of winning titles, would be roster limits for football, but pay the players. 

[26.2Hog]

I wonder how many SEC teams would swap talent with us, straight up.

Wonder how many teams would swap coaches with us, straight up.

[bennyl08]

I wonder how many SEC teams would swap talent with us, straight up.

MSU, Vandy, Kentucky, probably SC and Mizzou.

Auburn and Ole Miss are a bit harder. Namely, we have a lot more NFL talent than they do, but when they do have NFL talent, it is often better than ours. What's better to have? One 1st round pick and a 7th, or 4 picks from rounds 3-6?

[Hogwild]

I would rather Bob Diaco than the three listed in the article

[Tusks]

I would rather Bob Diaco than the three listed in the article

[DeltaBoy]

Paul Roades would be a good choice along with Partrige.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Get Partridge back here!  This should be done already!

[RazorBassin]

I hope Partridge makes his way back here.  I would like to see a recruiting DC hired...but I have not idea who I would want at this moment.  Hopefully Bielema makes a hire that will bring a few 4* recruits with him!

[redleg]

Paul Rhoads is the best possible option right now! Give the guy a chance. His defenses at Pitt and Auburn when he was DC were some of the best in the entire country...top 20 defenses in almost every defensive category! If he can do that at both of those places, he can absolutely do it in Fayetteville! Arkansas has some quality defensive talent, it just hasn't been fostered and coached to their potential over the last two years. Robb Smith's defenses started out gang-busters in 2014, but they progressively got worse in each of the past two seasons. It was time for a change.
A move to a 3-4 defense might be just what the doctor ordered. If not, then look for a more aggressive and attacking 4-3 under Rhoads (IF he is the new DC). Arkansas does not have the high rankings recruit numbers that Alabama or LSU have, so a really good Hogs D must be an aggressive, in your face, blitzing, frantic style of defense, putting size on the line and speed everywhere else. Rhoads can and will do that.
If Rhoads is the new guy, Hogs fans should expect the defense to be much improved in 2017!
For my money, CBB should promote Rhoads.
:razorback:

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Get Partridge back here!  This should be done already!

Without question...as D-line coach

[jackflash]

I think if Charlie comes back it will as DL coach

[tophawg19]

whoever we bring in , likely will want his own assistants. Especially on the DL and LB

[ricepig]

whoever we bring in , likely will want his own assistants. Especially on the DL and LB

Um, you don't always get you choice, do you? Who did Smith bring in that were his own assistants?

[The_Iceman]

MSU, Vandy, Kentucky, probably SC and Mizzou.

Auburn and Ole Miss are a bit harder. Namely, we have a lot more NFL talent than they do, but when they do have NFL talent, it is often better than ours. What's better to have? One 1st round pick and a 7th, or 4 picks from rounds 3-6?

Lol, Auburn would not swap talent with us. Especially with the QB they will have in 2017.

[buldozer]

Wonder how many teams would swap coaches with us, straight up.

Same three or four.... most wouldn't touch big boy after his performance the last few years here, but lots prolly would have taken him coming from wisky..... his stock has gone way down in the last 4 years

[bennyl08]

Paul Rhoads is the best possible option right now! Give the guy a chance. His defenses at Pitt and Auburn when he was DC were some of the best in the entire country...top 20 defenses in almost every defensive category! If he can do that at both of those places, he can absolutely do it in Fayetteville! Arkansas has some quality defensive talent, it just hasn't been fostered and coached to their potential over the last two years. Robb Smith's defenses started out gang-busters in 2014, but they progressively got worse in each of the past two seasons. It was time for a change.
A move to a 3-4 defense might be just what the doctor ordered. If not, then look for a more aggressive and attacking 4-3 under Rhoads (IF he is the new DC). Arkansas does not have the high rankings recruit numbers that Alabama or LSU have, so a really good Hogs D must be an aggressive, in your face, blitzing, frantic style of defense, putting size on the line and speed everywhere else. Rhoads can and will do that.
If Rhoads is the new guy, Hogs fans should expect the defense to be much improved in 2017!
For my money, CBB should promote Rhoads.
:razorback:

Rob Smith's were some of the best too, except for when they weren't. For every season Rhoads has had a top 10 defense, he's also had a defense that was worse than what we fielded this year. Below is copy pasted from what I wrote in another thread on the subject.

Here is Paul Rhoads' record as DC of Pitt.

Year : ttd,     ypp   td  ypg
2000: 29th , 4.46, 26, 325.7
2001: 8th,   3.98, 29 285.7
2002: 12th, 4.38 27  296.00
2003: 79th, 5.57 40  402.62
2004: 73rd, 5.31 36  395.42
2005: 31st, 4.82 30  338.00
2006: 87th, 5.33 34  363.08
2007: 5th,   4.42 35  297.67

2008: 29th, 4.91 27  317.75 (Auburn, 1 season)

There's definitely some good stuff in there. There's a lot of bad as well. Seems very Robb Smithy to me, being top 10 one year to falling into below 70th the next. For comparison, the 3 years before he went to pitt, they were ranked (94th, 45th, 99th). So, he improved them, but not a whole lot beyond their norm. For auburn (19th, 19th, 6th). So, his Auburn defense was 23 spots better the year before he took over, and on average, his one year was 14.5 spots worse than the 3 year average before. Pitt averaged 79th the 3 years prior to him being there, he averaged a defense ranked 40.5th. So, on average, 40 spots better. What I said before I was going on gut, of he had a lot of bad years, which were about 20 points better than his good, he also had several mid years which were about 15 spots better than their good year before.

Including the Auburn experience as DC into his average, his defense averages 39.2nd. Which is what one would expect from any other well experienced DC we would hire. Only a few coaches average better and they are mostly at top 10 programs. Only way we find a coach with a higher average ranking is if they only have a handful of year's experience.

[IMABIELEMA]

MSU, Vandy, Kentucky, probably SC and Mizzou.

Auburn and Ole Miss are a bit harder. Namely, we have a lot more NFL talent than they do, but when they do have NFL talent, it is often better than ours. What's better to have? One 1st round pick and a 7th, or 4 picks from rounds 3-6?

Hahaha are you freaking retarded? Go look at how SEC in the NFL and get back to me.

[hobhog]

The DL coach should be fired just like the DC. everyone who coach this pitiful defense should be gone.Band-Aid moves won't cut it.

That has never worked in the history of sports. Complete panic and desperation move but not surprising fans would scream it.

Let Beleima do his job and get a new DC in here he sees fit. Whoever it is can make an immediate difference if right fit.

[hobhog]

3 Names here and one I haven't heard before.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/three-candidates-arkansas-next-defensive-coordinator

I'd be happy with any of these hires.....

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Without question...as D-line coach

DL coach is fine.   We need his Florida recruiting.

[bennyl08]

Hahaha are you freaking retarded? Go look at how SEC in the NFL and get back to me.

Between the two of us, one types in complete sentences and uses correct grammar, mostly.

Here's a list of all the teams and the draft picks the past 5 years, the 5 years before that, and the sum over the past decade.

LSU          32  30  62
Alabama   39  19  58
Florida      29  27  56
UGA         27  26  53
Arkansas   22  17  39
SC            21  14  35
Auburn     14  19  33
Mizzou     16   13  29
Tenner       8   18  26
aTm         16   9   25
Miss St     15   7   22
Ole Miss     8   11  19
Vandy        8   6   14
Kentucky    5   5   10

Auburn and Tenner had more NFL talent than we did from 2007:2011 drafts, but nobody other than LSU, Bama, UF, and UGA have had more players drafted from 2012:2016 than we have and nobody other than those listed have had more players drafted in the past 10 years than we have, and thems be the factoids.

[Hogwild]

Between the two of us, one types in complete sentences and uses correct grammar, mostly.

Here's a list of all the teams and the draft picks the past 5 years, the 5 years before that, and the sum over the past decade.

LSU          32  30  62
Alabama   39  19  58
Florida      29  27  56
UGA         27  26  53
Arkansas   22  17  39
SC            21  14  35
Auburn     14  19  33
Mizzou     16   13  29
Tenner       8   18  26
aTm         16   9   25
Miss St     15   7   22
Ole Miss     8   11  19
Vandy        8   6   14
Kentucky    5   5   10

Auburn and Tenner had more NFL talent than we did from 2007:2011 drafts, but nobody other than LSU, Bama, UF, and UGA have had more players drafted from 2012:2016 than we have and nobody other than those listed have had more players drafted in the past 10 years than we have, and thems be the factoids.

Of the last 15 Ole Miss players drafted, 5 were in the first round. Proving you get what you pay for.

[bennyl08]

Of the last 15 Ole Miss players drafted, 5 were in the first round. Proving you get what you pay for.

True. However, the question was about total talent of the team. Arkansas has had more NFL than all but 4 teams in the SEC. The 3 teams I said with confidence would rather have our talent were MSU, Vandy, and UK. I guessed that SC and Mizzou might as well. Didn't realize SC had has as much NFL success as they have. Mizzou runs a pretty different style of play so comparing talent b/w the two probably doesn't mean much.

For OM and Auburn, they've had a lot more higher round draft picks than we have, but a lot fewer overall draft picks. So, it begs the question of which is more enviable. Is it better to have one 1st round and one 7th round pick, or 4 3rd-6th round picks? Hard to answer that and depends on personal preference I'd venture.

[Big Daddy]

Swap all the coaches you want and pay them ever more salary.  Talent will still be 80-90% of college football.

[hawgmasta]

Rob Ryan 

Lol it's funny but I honestly think he would be a great recruiter. Almost any football fan any age knows who the Ryan clan are in football.

[bennyl08]

Lol it's funny but I honestly think he would be a great recruiter. Almost any football fan any age knows who the Ryan clan are in football.

Yeah, but NFL players complain that his schemes are too complicated, and these are all pro players at that. Coaches simplifying the game has the the biggest common denominator in improvements to our defense over the past decade. Something tells me this wouldn't be a fit.

[DeltaBoy]

Either one will be fine.

[IMABIELEMA]

Between the two of us, one types in complete sentences and uses correct grammar, mostly.

Here's a list of all the teams and the draft picks the past 5 years, the 5 years before that, and the sum over the past decade.

LSU          32  30  62
Alabama   39  19  58
Florida      29  27  56
UGA         27  26  53
Arkansas   22  17  39
SC            21  14  35
Auburn     14  19  33
Mizzou     16   13  29
Tenner       8   18  26
aTm         16   9   25
Miss St     15   7   22
Ole Miss     8   11  19
Vandy        8   6   14
Kentucky    5   5   10

Auburn and Tenner had more NFL talent than we did from 2007:2011 drafts, but nobody other than LSU, Bama, UF, and UGA have had more players drafted from 2012:2016 than we have and nobody other than those listed have had more players drafted in the past 10 years than we have, and thems be the factoids.

Current players in the NFL.  This is a better view of "NFL talent".  We are 9th in the SEC with one player ahead of Ole Miss.  Pathetic if you ask me.  We are nowhere near the Big 6 (ALABAMA, AUBURN, LSU, FLORIDA, TENNESSEE, UGA)

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/number-of-nfl-players-by-college/2016/

[IMABIELEMA]

Between the two of us, one types in complete sentences and uses correct grammar, mostly.

Here's a list of all the teams and the draft picks the past 5 years, the 5 years before that, and the sum over the past decade.

LSU          32  30  62
Alabama   39  19  58
Florida      29  27  56
UGA         27  26  53
Arkansas   22  17  39
SC            21  14  35
Auburn     14  19  33
Mizzou     16   13  29
Tenner       8   18  26
aTm         16   9   25
Miss St     15   7   22
Ole Miss     8   11  19
Vandy        8   6   14
Kentucky    5   5   10

Auburn and Tenner had more NFL talent than we did from 2007:2011 drafts, but nobody other than LSU, Bama, UF, and UGA have had more players drafted from 2012:2016 than we have and nobody other than those listed have had more players drafted in the past 10 years than we have, and thems be the factoids.

Also your numbers seem to be way off per other articles I researched.  But I don't care to waste more time on this subject.  In short we are a better program than Ole Miss, but we don't even Coke close to comparing to a Tennessee or an Auburn.  Those are both traditional SEC powers. 

[bennyl08]

Current players in the NFL.  This is a better view of "NFL talent".  We are 9th in the SEC with one player ahead of Ole Miss.  Pathetic if you ask me.  We are nowhere near the Big 6 (ALABAMA, AUBURN, LSU, FLORIDA, TENNESSEE, UGA)

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/number-of-nfl-players-by-college/2016/

Current players in the NFL includes people who haven't been in college this millenium. It is a very, very, very poor indicator of talent on anything but a generational time scale.

Draft picks is a much better indication of talent on a yearly to cohort time scale. For starters, it does a good job of weeding out scheme players as the NFL doesn't care too terribly much about production as much as it does physical ability. The freak athlete with mediocre performance will be taken over the high performance player with minimal athleticism but a lot of heart and hard work.

The downside of using the NFL to judge college talent is obviously the different metric. For example, Kirkland was a very good college player, but he went undrafted. NFL draft picks only shows how much physical talent was on your team. The 20+ players each year who don't get drafted on a given team are going to have varying levels of talent too, but are groups homogeneously as low talent.

Another difference b/w players currently in the NFL vs draft picks is related to the above point. The biggest difference b/w a player who stays in the NFL and who doesn't is in the mind. Those who get drafted but don't stick around very long have the physical tools needed to be NFL players, otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted, but can't process information fast enough or don't work hard enough. So, on top of counting players that were in college when today's players were in elementary school and have zero bearing on the current state of the college program, the players that one eliminated by looking at drafted players vs current players has to do with metrics completely meaningless to college. It's akin to having a top 50 in the world checkers player who can't handle the added complexity of chess. Saying they don't count as a good checkers player based on chess would be a silly rubric. Similarly, college is a lot slower and easier to mentally handle and a lower work load for the player than the NFL. Judging their collegiate talent on the ability to mentally handle the NFL rather judging talent on the NFL saying they are physically good enough doesn't make sense. The one benefit is that it does include undrafted players such as Kirkland. So, I will concede that aspect.

[tophawg19]

Um, you don't always get you choice, do you? Who did Smith bring in that were his own assistants?

that is the difference between hiring top coaches and the ones you can control. Top d/c's know that good assistants that they work well with makes them all money. And provides job security

[tophawg19]

Between the two of us, one types in complete sentences and uses correct grammar, mostly.

Here's a list of all the teams and the draft picks the past 5 years, the 5 years before that, and the sum over the past decade.

LSU          32  30  62
Alabama   39  19  58
Florida      29  27  56
UGA         27  26  53
Arkansas   22  17  39
SC            21  14  35
Auburn     14  19  33
Mizzou     16   13  29
Tenner       8   18  26
aTm         16   9   25
Miss St     15   7   22
Ole Miss     8   11  19
Vandy        8   6   14
Kentucky    5   5   10

Auburn and Tenner had more NFL talent than we did from 2007:2011 drafts, but nobody other than LSU, Bama, UF, and UGA have had more players drafted from 2012:2016 than we have and nobody other than those listed have had more players drafted in the past 10 years than we have, and thems be the factoids.

not bad for a team whose recruiting averages 9th or 10th in the SEC

[bennyl08]

not bad for a team whose recruiting averages 9th or 10th in the SEC

Not bad indeed. However, that order would be a lot different if say I gave 7 points for a first round down to 1 point for a 7th round pick. However, choosing how to weight the different round picks adds subjectivity and bias. This is simply the raw number of picks. In that same time frame, I can name off 7 hogs that went undrafted to make active rosters for NFL teams (Franklin, Gatson, Herndon, Nelson, Rassner, Bailey, Kirkland) and am probably missing a few others. Oh yeah, Wingo, Dennis Johnson, and so on. However, I imagine that is likely true for a lot of other teams and frankly, would require a heckuva lot of work to try and calculate that.

[HogimusMaximus]

We need to get better players.  Bama and Clemson had the horses.

[Pig In The City]

Paul Rhoads is the best possible option right now! Give the guy a chance. His defenses at Pitt and Auburn when he was DC were some of the best in the entire country...top 20 defenses in almost every defensive category! If he can do that at both of those places, he can absolutely do it in Fayetteville! Arkansas has some quality defensive talent, it just hasn't been fostered and coached to their potential over the last two years. Robb Smith's defenses started out gang-busters in 2014, but they progressively got worse in each of the past two seasons. It was time for a change.
A move to a 3-4 defense might be just what the doctor ordered. If not, then look for a more aggressive and attacking 4-3 under Rhoads (IF he is the new DC). Arkansas does not have the high rankings recruit numbers that Alabama or LSU have, so a really good Hogs D must be an aggressive, in your face, blitzing, frantic style of defense, putting size on the line and speed everywhere else. Rhoads can and will do that.
If Rhoads is the new guy, Hogs fans should expect the defense to be much improved in 2017!
For my money, CBB should promote Rhoads.
:razorback:

If you are going to lose, you want to go down swinging not playing bend don't break.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Lol next year the fans will call for the head of the dline coach. You people are chopping off the wrong heads.

He should've been gone last year. His defensive line has consistently underperformed and his special teams have also consistently underperformed

[redneckfriend]

We need to get better players.  Bama and Clemson had the horses.

I agree- everyone seems to think coaches are a magic bullet. I doubt Saban gets his hands dirty actually "coaching". He has established a brand thanks to being the coach of the state school in a talent rich state and now he (his staff) is in on nearly every 5* recruit. I will give Saban credit in that I expect he is a very demanding and organized manager and doesn't tolerate failure or excuses and that is important as well (as Lane Kifflin said "fun isn't a word we use around here very much").

Good recruiting and high expectations are the necessary ingredients for any successful head coach and the same goes for assistants. If they don't start with good raw material the final product won't be good and how many threads on this site decry the lack of speed on defense. Arkansas didn't have the horses to have a good defense and there was probably nothing Smith could do. It's easier for fans to blame coaches than to accept the very real recruiting problems that Arkansas has. The problem is pretty clear and it is delusional to think changing coaches (unless the new coach is a world class recruiter) is going to change anything.

[onebadrubi]

Rob Smith's were some of the best too, except for when they weren't. For every season Rhoads has had a top 10 defense, he's also had a defense that was worse than what we fielded this year. Below is copy pasted from what I wrote in another thread on the subject.

Here is Paul Rhoads' record as DC of Pitt.

Year : ttd,     ypp   td  ypg
2000: 29th , 4.46, 26, 325.7
2001: 8th,   3.98, 29 285.7
2002: 12th, 4.38 27  296.00
2003: 79th, 5.57 40  402.62
2004: 73rd, 5.31 36  395.42
2005: 31st, 4.82 30  338.00
2006: 87th, 5.33 34  363.08
2007: 5th,   4.42 35  297.67

2008: 29th, 4.91 27  317.75 (Auburn, 1 season)

There's definitely some good stuff in there. There's a lot of bad as well. Seems very Robb Smithy to me, being top 10 one year to falling into below 70th the next. For comparison, the 3 years before he went to pitt, they were ranked (94th, 45th, 99th). So, he improved them, but not a whole lot beyond their norm. For auburn (19th, 19th, 6th). So, his Auburn defense was 23 spots better the year before he took over, and on average, his one year was 14.5 spots worse than the 3 year average before. Pitt averaged 79th the 3 years prior to him being there, he averaged a defense ranked 40.5th. So, on average, 40 spots better. What I said before I was going on gut, of he had a lot of bad years, which were about 20 points better than his good, he also had several mid years which were about 15 spots better than their good year before.

Including the Auburn experience as DC into his average, his defense averages 39.2nd. Which is what one would expect from any other well experienced DC we would hire. Only a few coaches average better and they are mostly at top 10 programs. Only way we find a coach with a higher average ranking is if they only have a handful of year's experience.

I'm glad to see someone else sees what I see when diving deeper into Rhoads