New DC

[Pork Twain]

The facts were what I posted. Many on hogville may not want to hear them. It goes against their pre-conceived biases. For those looking for that up and comer who was good everywhere he had been and was bred into an aggressive style of defense, Robb Smith is their perfect guy. It's funny so many calling for a new DC with the exact same resume as our allegedly current DC had coming in.

Your 'facts' don't contradict what I stated as fact.  He was a DC for one year at a real college and two years at Maine, hence he was in charge of a defense for one year and one year only at a school that has any data that can be found.  All other times he was a position coach.  Since when do position coaches get the credit for the entire defense?

He does not have much of a resume as a DC and that is the position need filled. 

1999–2001   Iowa (GA/QC)
2002–2004   Maine (DB)
2005   Maine (ST/LB)
2006–2008   Maine (AHC/DC)
2009   Rutgers (ST/OLB)
2010   Rutgers (ST/CB)
2011   Rutgers (ST/LB)
2012   Rutgers (DC/DB)
2013   Tampa Bay Buccaneers (LB)
2014–present   

[Hogs958]

Steve Madden

[bennyl08]

Your 'facts' don't contradict what I stated as fact.  He was a DC for one year at a real college and two years at Maine, hence he was in charge of a defense for one year and one year only at a school that has any data that can be found.  All other times he was a position coach.  Since when do position coaches get the credit for the entire defense?
...

What you stated in this thread was asking where he was known for great defense before coming here. I provided evidence for it. You then stated that you believed the correct answer was that he did not have a history of any kind of defense. Yet, your own post here just proves yourself wrong. He didn't have an extensive history. That is true. He does have a history though. That is the definition of an up and comer coach which many posters want. The coaches with a decade of good DC experience are all at big time schools that we aren't going to pull away. The coaches with a decade of experience as a DC that we can pull away from their schools aren't going to have that good of a resume. That leaves coaches that have very minimal experience as a DC, but when they have been DC, they've performed very well. Probably a coach that has strong roots in a time tested coaching tree on defense.

None of the up and comers are going to have a resume different from Robb Smith. Maybe one of them will work out for us where he didn't, but it is largely going to be a guessing game. OTOH, up an comer isn't the only option. One of those more experienced DC's is still on the table as well, depending on what we are looking for. Those up and comers and going to have <5 years experience and each one of them will be good, same as CRS's 3 years as a DC that were all good. The 7+'ers that aren't locked up at a top 10 program, they are going to have mediocre years. However, we do have the option of finding one that has an extensive history leading defenses, not all of them good, but none of them terrible.

You say Maine is meaningless. Why? Sure, he's going against crappy competition, but he only has crappy players to work with himself. Yet, he provided those players a scheme that allowed them to be the number 2 defense in all of the FCS. When he was at a small school, he made it the best small school out there. When he was a position coach, his position was the best on the team. When he's been a DC, his defenses were top 10. He comes from the Schiano brand of defense which is a tried and true brand. That is a textbook example of a strong up and comer resume.

[Pork Twain]

What you stated in this thread was asking where he was known for great defense before coming here. I provided evidence for it. You then stated that you believed the correct answer was that he did not have a history of any kind of defense. Yet, your own post here just proves yourself wrong. He didn't have an extensive history. That is true. He does have a history though. That is the definition of an up and comer coach which many posters want. The coaches with a decade of good DC experience are all at big time schools that we aren't going to pull away. The coaches with a decade of experience as a DC that we can pull away from their schools aren't going to have that good of a resume. That leaves coaches that have very minimal experience as a DC, but when they have been DC, they've performed very well. Probably a coach that has strong roots in a time tested coaching tree on defense.

None of the up and comers are going to have a resume different from Robb Smith. Maybe one of them will work out for us where he didn't, but it is largely going to be a guessing game. OTOH, up an comer isn't the only option. One of those more experienced DC's is still on the table as well, depending on what we are looking for. Those up and comers and going to have <5 years experience and each one of them will be good, same as CRS's 3 years as a DC that were all good. The 7+'ers that aren't locked up at a top 10 program, they are going to have mediocre years. However, we do have the option of finding one that has an extensive history leading defenses, not all of them good, but none of them terrible.

You say Maine is meaningless. Why? Sure, he's going against crappy competition, but he only has crappy players to work with himself. Yet, he provided those players a scheme that allowed them to be the number 2 defense in all of the FCS. When he was at a small school, he made it the best small school out there. When he was a position coach, his position was the best on the team. When he's been a DC, his defenses were top 10. He comes from the Schiano brand of defense which is a tried and true brand. That is a textbook example of a strong up and comer resume.

As we have seen at Arkansas, one year does not a coaching history make.  Who is asking for an up and comer?  I want an actual proven DC, not another guy with one year as a DC.  Let me know when you dig up those Maine stats.

[flynhog]

Assuming they would accept the job on the hill, and you could choose, who would you choose?

John Chavis?
Brent Venables?
Kirby Smart?
Anyone else?

Just for fun.

[RazorPiggie]

So of the ones you listed none will happen.

Bob Diaco is a good guess. Maybe Rhoads just is promoted.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Assuming they would accept the job on the hill, and you could choose, who would you choose?

John Chavis?
Brent Venables?
Kirby Smart?
Anyone else?

Just for fun.

no Diaco? Did you even try with this list?

[RebelW]

Rhoads or Chinandler

[Tusks]

Bob Diaco

[Sooie71923]

Reasonable hires or pulling names out of each other's butt?

Paul Rhodes is at the top of my reasonable list.

Matt Patricia is at the top of my "I pulled this name outta my a**" list.  I will be off base and not care when I argue that he would love to crawl to Fayetteville to get away from Belichek and spread his wings.

[Arkiebarkie]

I warned about this on the board when Paul Haynes was hired. Don't judge him off of the cotton bowl game, because almost none of those players will be back (Nelson, Franklin, Bequette, Thomas, etc...). What happened? Those players had a good game, our defense did well overall, people got too high on the DC and then what do you know, those players leave, and our defense takes a huge tumble.

Not to say that the coach isn't important at all. 2012 showed us otherwise. However, those players were going to play hard and well no matter who the DC was, and there was going to be a big dropoff in defense no matter who the DC was after they left.

Fast forward to 2014. Robb Smith comes into a senior heavy defense. Flowers, Tevin, Spaight, and others. With that top talent, he put together a top defense. No matter who our DC was in 2015, it was going to take a big step backwards, and it did. However, we drastically changed scheme as well, utilizing the players we did have to stop the run and force other teams to pass. If they had a good qb, we got burned, but if they didn't, it gave us a chance. 2016 came and brought us another senior heavy defense. However, the defense never built an identity. In the offseason, they made moves to make it similar to the 2014 in scheme, but come gameday for one reason or another, they backed off and didn't let the players be aggressive. Perhaps the worst thing they did was actually play well in the first half of the last 2 games only to collapse in the 2nd half. Why that is the worse thing is 2-fold. First, it shows fans that there is the talent on defense to do good things, but the coaching staff was unable to do that consistently. Further, the last two games stick in people's memories more. It would actually be better to be completely blown out because at least you know you simply weren't good enough in the first place. To show that you are the better team but then screw up in the 2nd half shows that you aren't performing to the level you should be.

What about on offense? Dan Enos came here with a senior heavy offensive side of the ball in 2015 and worked wonders. I cautioned people to be realistic about the offense this year. However, Enos, unlike Smith, still put together a very good offense this season. It undoubtably had it's struggles, particularly struggles you'd expect inexperienced guys to have. But overall, they were good. The worst parts were when they started pressing as a reaction to the defense's 2nd half collapses in the last 2 games. The offense didn't maintain it's composure and tried to push too hard and do too much, which only compounded the defense's problems.

What's the moral of this story? Whoever the new DC is, will be coming into a talent rich and already deep defense, built by coaches now being replaced. There is a good chance they will have some early success. The only the team will lack on defense next year is experienced pass rushers. The true test, IMO, for whoever we may hire next would be 3 years from now when the players on defense are primarily their own and those who aren't will have spent more time under the new coaches than the old.

You could of just said....we need speed,speed & more speed. Just a thought!

[tophawg19]

Joe Cauthen from Arkansas State looks very good . his defense is very aggressive in the games i saw. they really get to the ball in a hurry and in a bad mood , they will hit hard and tackle well. they are physical up front and look like a good cover team .

[Fatty McGee]

I would have a running livestream vote of Hogville call defensive plays.  Or offensive.

[WooPig90]

Is Robb even officially gone yet?!

[Bigmac2]

Gruden

[3kgthog]

Is Robb even officially gone yet?!

They'll probably wait until the day after signing day to pull the rug out from under his defensive recruits. Isn't that SOP these days?

[Trystran]

Just to throw a name out there... Jim Reid from BC wouldn't be a bad choice. Ran a 3-4 when he was with the dolphins, a 4-3 at Iowa, and knows how to transition between the 2. Put up great stats last year. He's an older guy, but specializes in LBs. Not sure how strong of a recruiter he is. BC was 2nd in the nation in sacks, so I assume his style is pretty aggressive.

[AFWarrior83]

Why Bob Diaco? He had a lousy record as a HC at UCONN. Just asking bc Idk anything about the guy besides that he won the Broyles award a while back.

[Sooie71923]

Hope we worry less about how they recruit and more how they coach. We know what our ceiling is on recruiting, coaching we can try to make up for it.

[code red]

We need studs.....the DC will follow.

[Trystran]

Why Bob Diaco? He had a lousy record as a HC at UCONN. Just asking bc Idk anything about the guy besides that he won the Broyles award a while back.

I think people are hung up on him because of his defense at Notre Dame. The issue with that is ND usually has quite a bit more talent coming in from name recognition alone than we have. We need someone that... has a history of doing more with less in my opinion.

[GalaHawg]

Why Bob Diaco? He had a lousy record as a HC at UCONN. Just asking bc Idk anything about the guy besides that he won the Broyles award a while back.

Because if you can make a unanimous All-American and Lombardi/Butkus/Nagurski/Walter Camp award winner out of a guy that believes in imaginary girlfriends, you can coach defense.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Joe Cauthen from Arkansas State looks very good . his defense is very aggressive in the games i saw. they really get to the ball in a hurry and in a bad mood , they will hit hard and tackle well. they are physical up front and look like a good cover team .

Astate/Cauthen Gave up 4.99yds/play and 360 ypg to rank 29th in total defense. 3 years at State.  Aggressive D creates turnovers, but this is the first year D has been under 400 ypg or had a top 40 ranking although it appears D has improved each year he has been there.  Doubt this would ever happen though regardless of performance.

UCF/Chinander Gave up 4.78 yds/play and 370 ypg to rank 39th in total defense.  According to Coachingsearch.com Chinander had 3rd most improved D in the country in his first year as DC at the school.  Main issue I can see is it was his first year as a DC.  Great work in year 1 but not a good body of work to judge long term success.  High Risk high reward.   

For perspective

Ark/Robb Smith Gave up 6.75 yds/play and 426 ypg to rank 76th in total defense.

[tophawg19]

take a look at Joe Cauthen's Arkansas St bio. i think everyone will be impressed

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Hope we worry less about how they recruit and more how they coach. We know what our ceiling is on recruiting, coaching we can try to make up for it.

Exactly.  Position assistants are usually the recruiting superstars anyway.  No matter what are level of talent we need coordinators that can put them in the best position to win. 

[davehog]

Anybody that improves our recruiting substantially on defense.  Especially in TX & LA. 

Better players will equal better defensive performance. 

I'm less concerned with "coaching and scheme" since anybody considered will most likely be proficient already. 

Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting.

[26.2Hog]

take a look at Joe Cauthen's Arkansas St bio. i think everyone will be impressed

Do I have to do everything for you?

Here's the link:

http://www.astateredwolves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7200&ATCLID=209370516

[Pork Twain]

Assuming they would accept the job on the hill, and you could choose, who would you choose?

John Chavis?
Brent Venables?
Kirby Smart?
Anyone else?

Just for fun.

Picking from a bunch of unrealistic options is not fun.

[NuttinItUp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rhoads

If you don't promote Rhoads to DC, he will be gone within a year (possibly this offseason) to someone that will. His resume is too good.

[tophawg19]

Do I have to do everything for you?

Here's the link:

http://www.astateredwolves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7200&ATCLID=209370516

yep that's why we keep you here . to post links

[ATLHog]

Partridge or promote Rhodes

[colbs]

I think people are hung up on him because of his defense at Notre Dame. The issue with that is ND usually has quite a bit more talent coming in from name recognition alone than we have. We need someone that... has a history of doing more with less in my opinion.

His defenses got better at ND the longer he was there.  Since he left the defense has not been as good.  You can be a good coordinator and bad HC.

[WMHawgfan]

y'all can't seem to grasp the fact that it ain't the jockey it's the horse.

maybe its the horse trainer?

[hogfanshan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rhoads

If you don't promote Rhoads to DC, he will be gone within a year (possibly this offseason) to someone that will. His resume is too good.

Similar to Randy Shannon?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Picking from a bunch of unrealistic options is not fun.

How about this one?

Chris Klieman

[code red]

So of the ones you listed none will happen.

Bob Diaco is a good guess. Maybe Rhoads just is promoted.

I'd like to think Rhoads but...is he a better DC than secondary coach???  I hope so or else its a lateral move.

[26.2Hog]

yep that's why we keep you here . to post links

I've found my calling.

[code red]

What would be Diaco's interest level?  Because...no doubt that would be a homerun hire.

[HF#1]

New DC, new set of excuses.

[ToddW]

its got to be a home run that is for sure.  This will be BB's 3rd DC in five years.

[oldman1015]

What are the chances it will be someone you've never heard of?

[Pork Twain]

Rhodes or Diaco for me

[The_Iceman]

I'd like to think Rhoads but...is he a better DC than secondary coach???  I hope so or else its a lateral move.

Rhodes was not a bad secondary coach. I saw improvement from that group. Of course, it helps to have Ryan Pulley have a breakout season.

[razorbrass]

take a look at Joe Cauthen's Arkansas St bio. i think everyone will be impressed

YIKES!!  He looks like Robb Smith's twin.

[VirginiaHog]

Rhodes was not a bad secondary coach. I saw improvement from that group. Of course, it helps to have Ryan Pulley have a breakout season.

This, and I would assume Pulleys break out year is a product of Rhodes.

[razorbrass]

Hmm.. the following excerpt from Paul Rhodes Wikipedia biography:

The 2015 season proved to be particularly difficult, as in two games, the Cyclones held double-digit halftime leads against both Oklahoma State and Kansas State only to lose late in the fourth quarter. Following a 38–35 loss to Kansas State on November 21, in which he came under heavy criticism for play-calling in the game's final 90 seconds,[17] Rhoads was fired as head coach, effective the conclusion of the season.[18]

[code red]

Rhodes was not a bad secondary coach. I saw improvement from that group. Of course, it helps to have Ryan Pulley have a breakout season.

I saw improvement early....I saw regression late. 

[HF#1]

I saw improvement early....I saw regression late. 

The 2nd half of that Mizzou game was a textbook for what not to do when you play Corner or Safety.

[code red]

The 2nd half of that Mizzou game was a textbook for what not to do when you play Corner or Safety.

That was unreal.  Surely we were tired?  Full of turkey??

[code red]

Is it easier to just name Rhodes at this point?  How does this affect recruiting?