The bunt to end the no hitter

[micali]

So I logged on expecting to see a three page topic on the ill timed bunt to end the no hitter. Was it not that big of a deal? The announcers made it out to be a "no no" in baseball.
Who's decision do you think it was to bunt there? Is it the "just win" and to hell with the unwritten rules thought that went into that call? 
I was hoping to read the thoughts on some of the old school baseball fans on what happened last night. I'm still learning college baseball and I find these rules interesting.  I've always heard you never talk about a no hitter when it's happening but never this.

[Kevin]

in a 2-0 game do what you have to do to try and win

[RaisinHog]

in a 2-0 game do what you have to do to try and win

This is my thought as well .. I mean you are a bunt and a homer away from tieing the game.cant really blame them.. now  if we are blowing them.out it's an issue

[rljjr]

This is my thought as well .. I mean you are a bunt and a homer away from tieing the game.cant really blame them.. now  if we are blowing them.out it's an issue

Exactly.

[onebadrubi]

In the 4thright?  Close game I have no issue with it.  In the 8th I do

[bosshog84]

They were trying anything to get the tying run to the plate. We may not like it as Razorback fans but I think it was a good call by the Tigers.

[micali]

That's what I thought too. It's a close game and do what you can to get on base and give yourself a chance.

[spe450]

In the 4thright?  Close game I have no issue with it.  In the 8th I do

7th

[factchecker]

In the 4thright?  Close game I have no issue with it.  In the 8th I do

7th inning - during a midweek non-conference game in which they pitched their Friday starter.

That game meant everything to do them and they still couldn't win.

[jbell96]

I actually had a bigger issue with Memphis' coach acting like a 5 year old when DVH went to take out Murphy after the pinch hitter was announced in the 8th. In what world does the starting pitcher have to throw a pitch when a pinch hitter is announced? Just a dumb argument. If it was a reliever that just came in, yeah he has to throw, but Murphy was the starter.

[factchecker]

I actually had a bigger issue with Memphis' coach acting like a 5 year old when DVH went to take out Murphy after the pinch hitter was announced in the 8th. In what world does the starting pitcher have to throw a pitch when a pinch hitter is announced? Just a dumb argument. If it was a reliever that just came in, yeah he has to throw, but Murphy was the starter.

I was about to bring this up. I was wondering why the Memphis coach threw fit about a pitching change.

[V-town Hog]

I didn't like it. There is an art to the game and the bunt violated it. What was really great is the team wasn't afraid to show their displeasure with the batter. And it is poetic justice that he was picked off. DVH loves the game and is strict about playing it the right way. The players are buying into that mentality too.

[hog of steele]

I didn't like it. There is an art to the game and the bunt violated it. What was really great is the team wasn't afraid to show their displeasure with the batter. And it is poetic justice that he was picked off. DVH loves the game and is strict about playing it the right way. The players are buying into that mentality too.

Nonsense. Memphis coach is paid to win. Not to help Arkansas players do good things. If it were a blowout and he was doing it out of spite, then this argument makes sense.

Unwritten rules of baseball allow for some weird stuff. Baseball is a sport where certain kinds of cheating are smiled at. Flopping is part of the fun. And, you never look at your home run.

But if the game is close, and you can get the winning run to the plate, you get the winning run to the plate.

[RagingHawgOn]

No problem whatsoever with the bunt. This was a world series game for them. Do what you can to win the game.

[southarkhog06]

I get the "do what you have to do to win" argument, but if that is the case why do it with 2 out in the seventh? Pull that leading off the 5th or 6th and maybe you throw Murphy off his rhythm and start a rally. Doing it with 2 out in the seventh just screams "I don't want to read about my team getting no-no'ed on a day I tossed my ace", IMHO.

[Wisco Pig]

I agree with the majority of posters here -- bunting for a hit in the 7th inning of a two-run game is fine.

Bunting for a hit in the same situation with a 6-7 run deficit would be a punk move.

How about bunting to break up a no-hitter with two outs in the ninth and a two-run deficit?  To me, that's where we can start to have a good argument.

[Science Fiction Greg]

I get the "do what you have to do to win" argument, but if that is the case why do it with 2 out in the seventh? Pull that leading off the 5th or 6th and maybe you throw Murphy off his rhythm and start a rally. Doing it with 2 out in the seventh just screams "I don't want to read about my team getting no-no'ed on a day I tossed my ace", IMHO.

There was one out.

[Kevin]

I do like the fact our guys were upset.

[Wisco Pig]

I do like the fact our guys were upset.

Agreed.   Use whatever you can as fuel to play better.

[UAfan]

I missed the Memphis coach throwing a fit.  What did he do?

[Knot2brite]

The unwritten rules of baseball are all fine and dandy until you are in the batters box or in the dugout coaching the game and you are on the wrong end. Baseball is a game of strategy and aggressiveness. As a player I have been on the wrong end of a couple no hitter attempts. I have been there as a coach as well. The idea of just swinging away to get a hit when nothing has worked all game is the same definition of insanity..doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. My opinion is not going to be popular ...the opposing team has to play defense and work to maintain the no hitter whilst the team being no hit has to try to get a hit no matter how. The "gentlemans" rules are kind of odd because they can mess with a teams mentality. Are we expected to not compete every inning? Fans get pissed off when a team "mails it in" yet fans expect teams not to compete because it isn't good form. As a coach, I have conformed to a lot of unwritten rules. Don't steal with a big lead, step on the plate with a bunt to get a automatic out when up by 15 etc etc. those are done to not embarrass teams. Laying down a bunt to get a hit to break up a no no is competing in my mind because it is a pride thing. We expect our players to play for the name on their chest and have pride in it ....the unwritten rules are all fine and dandy for fans but players have pride as well...last night didn't bother me at all...a team was down by two and needed baserunners. A bunt and a blast and it is a tie game...no harm no foul

[Vandyhog4]

No issue with the bunt, especially in a 2 run game.  If the Hogs were being no-hit and down 2 late, I would expect them to do the same.  You do everything you can to get a guy on, bring the tying run to the plate, and make the pitcher throw from the stretch.   

Now, doing the same late in a 10-0 game is certainly a breach of baseball etiquette.  I still don't have much of a problem with it, as the pitcher has to earn the no no.  If you don't want them bunting for a hit, then take it away.  Don't expect the other team to roll over and play dead just because you have a no hitter going.  However, if you pull this stunt, you should be prepared to take some hard tags on pick off attempts at first and expect the next batter to wear one. 

[micali]

I like all the different opinions on this. BB is a funny sport, not Ha Ha funny but just with all the unwritten rules.

[southarkhog06]

There was one out.

Ah my mistake, that softens my opinion a little but not much. Not that my opinion means anything.

[Pig Power]

Agreed.   Use whatever you can as fuel to play better.

As a former pitcher, I would have sent a message on the next pitch considering the fact he was cruising through their lineup.

[Dropkick]

Close game, no problem. You do it in a blow out and the next batter is gonna wear a fastball.

[ricepig]

Close game, no problem. You do it in a blow out and the next batter is gonna wear a fastball.

That was a blowout, they couldn't hit him, and we had a lead.   

[pigture perfect]

 Anytime you can bring the tying run to the plate late in the game is not only a good play, but also one I think you have to do any way you can. Even lean into a pitch if you have to. Doesn't mean that I'm not a little saddened for Murph though. It might even be the biggest compliment the kittens could have paid him.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

in a 2-0 game do what you have to do to try and win

If the roles were reversed I would expect The Hogs to do everything possible to win and not help the opponent pitch a no hitter against The Razorbacks.

[jbell96]

I missed the Memphis coach throwing a fit.  What did he do?

Murphy went out to the mound at the start of the 8th inning. They announced the batter, who was a pinch hitter, then DVH went to get Murphy and let him get a well deserved ovation from the crowd, and bring in Alberius.

Their coach flipped his lid and was saying Murphy had to throw a pitch, which is ludicrous, because Murphy was pitching when we recorded the last out of the 7th. Had we brought someone in from the pen to start the inning, then pulled them when the pinch hitter was announced, then he would have had an argument.

[311Hog]

thing is the blow out came in the first game.  This and these games do not exist in a bubble.  it was bush league to do, but if i was a tiger high fan or player i would not be upset about it, but i understand the angst from the Hog side, and i am glad we hammered them basically in a 2 game series.

[southarkhog06]

The unwritten rules of baseball are all fine and dandy until you are in the batters box or in the dugout coaching the game and you are on the wrong end. Baseball is a game of strategy and aggressiveness. As a player I have been on the wrong end of a couple no hitter attempts. I have been there as a coach as well. The idea of just swinging away to get a hit when nothing has worked all game is the same definition of insanity..doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. My opinion is not going to be popular ...the opposing team has to play defense and work to maintain the no hitter whilst the team being no hit has to try to get a hit no matter how. The "gentlemans" rules are kind of odd because they can mess with a teams mentality. Are we expected to not compete every inning? Fans get pissed off when a team "mails it in" yet fans expect teams not to compete because it isn't good form. As a coach, I have conformed to a lot of unwritten rules. Don't steal with a big lead, step on the plate with a bunt to get a automatic out when up by 15 etc etc. those are done to not embarrass teams. Laying down a bunt to get a hit to break up a no no is competing in my mind because it is a pride thing. We expect our players to play for the name on their chest and have pride in it ....the unwritten rules are all fine and dandy for fans but players have pride as well...last night didn't bother me at all...a team was down by two and needed baserunners. A bunt and a blast and it is a tie game...no harm no foul

I get what you are saying, but I disagree. When a guy is dealing like that you are basically praying for a Miracle, look at the result. The only thing the bunt did was take Memphis from "praying for a Miracle" too "At least we wont be no hit, still praying for a Miracle".

[HognitiveDissonance]

I hate all the unwritten rules in baseball.

This gets dicey (no bunting in a 2-0 game, no stealing bases in a six run game, etc etc) because there are times when teams blow huge leads or make big comebacks. At what point do the 'unwritten rule' gods say the game is over? We lost a 8-1 lead to LSU two weeks ago. Maybe we should have been stealing more bases and getting on base any way possible when we were up 8-1. But some would say it's 'bush league' to steal a base when up 8-1. Oh really? Well, we lost the game after being up 8-1.

Just get 27 outs and play the same game until you do. Life is much easier that way. Baseball is way too stuffy with the unwritten rules.

[311Hog]

there isn't an unwritten rule about doing anything in an 8-1 game.  The rule is related to a no hitter, deep in a game you aren't going to win.  a 2-0 game is debatable on tiger highs chances but fact is it turns out they had no chance to win, and were blown out just 2 days before. So in a contentious series this is something that would obviously ruffle feathers.  I mean if Murphy had plunked the guy when he tried to bunt Tiger High would have been up in arms.

Some of the rules are dumb, but it does not make it any less bush league to bunt a single to break a no no, and then the karma from that gets you picked off first and you do not get another hit the rest of the game

[Grizzlyfan]

It was the 6th inning.  Just 2/3rd's through the game.  Huge difference in that and bunting in the 8th or 9th.  And if you are just down 2-1 in the 8th I still wouldn't have a problem with it.

[jbell96]

It was the 6th inning.  Just 2/3rd's through the game.  Huge difference in that and bunting in the 8th or 9th.  And if you are just down 2-1 in the 8th I still wouldn't have a problem with it.

Bunt was in the 7th inning, not the 6th.

[code red]

in a 2-0 game do what you have to do to try and win

This all day.

[code red]

I didn't like it. There is an art to the game and the bunt violated it. What was really great is the team wasn't afraid to show their displeasure with the batter. And it is poetic justice that he was picked off. DVH loves the game and is strict about playing it the right way. The players are buying into that mentality too.

If LSU had us in a no-no you can bet we would do everything possible...even bunting....to break it up.  I am sure the kid from Memphis probably had good wheels and did it on his own.

[311Hog]

If LSU had us in a no-no you can bet we would do everything possible...even bunting....to break it up.  I am sure the kid from Memphis probably had good wheels and did it on his own.

actually from what i heard the kid was out and the ump blew it, but eh.  More to do with piss on tiger high then anything.

[V-town Hog]

If LSU had us in a no-no you can bet we would do everything possible...even bunting....to break it up.  I am sure the kid from Memphis probably had good wheels and did it on his own.

I understand your point. I'm not saying Memphis should have given up and let it happen. It probably had more to do with the feeling it produced. I love teams and players that don't give up. This was more like they knew they were beat and had to try and save face.

[Knot2brite]

I get what you are saying, but I disagree. When a guy is dealing like that you are basically praying for a Miracle, look at the result. The only thing the bunt did was take Memphis from "praying for a Miracle" too "At least we wont be no hit, still praying for a Miracle".

But if they take a hit to the mentality that a no no will give you then they could lose their next series...we don't care because aren't Memphis ...but their kids and their coaches cared...it is about competitive nature...miracle or not...they aren't on espn news or Kendall Rogers being talked about being no hit...if it was us I can guarantee that we would have a better mindset going into auburn knowing we weren't no hit

[HamIAm]

I have no problem with the bunt.  Memphis had only one base runner up to this point, a walk in the fourth inning. Having a man on base changes the dynamics for a pitcher.  He's thinking about more than just the batter.  He goes from pitching from the stretch to not. 

Time is getting short and the pitch count is rising. Why not try to get a man on base and see if it stirs things up?

[Woodland Pork CO]

Interesting read on the topic:
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/9/16/6231827/bunting-to-break-up-a-no-hitter-domonic-brown-andrew-cashner

" The definition of a hit: When the batter safely reaches first base after hitting a ball into fair territory, excluding a fielder's choice or error. A no-hitter is defined, roughly, as when that doesn't happen. Want a no-hitter? Prevent batters safely reaching first after hitting a ball into fair territory. That goes for balls that hit a foot, and it goes for balls hit 400 feet. If you don't like the bunt hit, pick the ball up and throw the runner out."

"In the opinion of this unwritten court, then, bunting to break up a no-hitter is perfectly fine, especially in a tight, one-run game. If the player's team is down by 10 runs, it's mostly okay, but we reserve the right to call that player a weenie because that really is a weenie move. Baseball doesn't have a clock, and every runner could be the start of something big, et cetera, but you know that's not what the player is thinking. He's probably just being a spiteful weenie. That probably breaks the unwritten rule of "don't be a weenie." It's okay to wing one behind him next time."

[southarkhog06]

But if they take a hit to the mentality that a no no will give you then they could lose their next series...we don't care because aren't Memphis ...but their kids and their coaches cared...it is about competitive nature...miracle or not...they aren't on espn news or Kendall Rogers being talked about being no hit...if it was us I can guarantee that we would have a better mindset going into auburn knowing we weren't no hit

I suppose that makes sense, That is just not a call I would make as a coach.

[HognitiveDissonance]

there isn't an unwritten rule about doing anything in an 8-1 game.  The rule is related to a no hitter, deep in a game you aren't going to win.  a 2-0 game is debatable on tiger highs chances but fact is it turns out they had no chance to win, and were blown out just 2 days before. So in a contentious series this is something that would obviously ruffle feathers.  I mean if Murphy had plunked the guy when he tried to bunt Tiger High would have been up in arms.

Some of the rules are dumb, but it does not make it any less bush league to bunt a single to break a no no, and then the karma from that gets you picked off first and you do not get another hit the rest of the game

Of course there are.
Like someone said, you get a lead, you shouldn't be stealing bases. At least, according to the so-called unwritten rules. An 8-1 lead qualifies as a big lead by most anyone's standard.

[Knot2brite]

I suppose that makes sense, That is just not a call I would make as a coach.

And that is perfectly ok...I have made that call before and I laid down two drags to break up no no's ...funny thing is that after I was safe the next guy got hits and I eventually scored. Yes we lost both but the mentality was that if we could get that first hit we could all hit...I have seen games turn because one player got a hit late against a pitcher that was shoving it up their ass previously ...it takes many different types and thoughts..thetnis why baseball is the best

[southarkhog06]

And that is perfectly ok...I have made that call before and I laid down two drags to break up no no's ...funny thing is that after I was safe the next guy got hits and I eventually scored. Yes we lost both but the mentality was that if we could get that first hit we could all hit...I have seen games turn because one player got a hit late against a pitcher that was shoving it up their ass previously ...it takes many different types and thoughts..thetnis why baseball is the best

On this we definitely agree.

[Inhogswetrust]

I missed the Memphis coach throwing a fit.  What did he do?

Someone told him he had to go back to Memphis after the game..........................

[PintailKiller]

[/quote]

Of course there are.
Like someone said, you get a lead, you shouldn't be stealing bases. At least, according to the so-called unwritten rules. An 8-1 lead qualifies as a big lead by most anyone's standard.

But we all know that 8-1 isn't safe with the Hogs this year.

[Inhogswetrust]

They were trying anything to get the tying run to the plate. We may not like it as Razorback fans but I think it was a good call by the Tigers.

Bunts should not be considered a base "hit". It's more like a base blooper..........................