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Author Topic: How hot  (Read 3012 times)

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20gauge

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Re: How hot
« Reply #100 on: January 16, 2018, 01:27:46 pm »

Why does everybody keep saying the tournament 2 out of 6 years?  Do you not acknowledge that it takes time to upgrade the roster, get your type of players inane develop a culture?  As far as making the tournrament, he should have at least two years where he gets a pass - completely reasonable for a ďsystem coachĒ

That means heís been to the tournament 2 out of 4 years and post season and an NIT. 

To win an SECT or Reg season youíre basically asking us to be better than Kentucky.  thatís a tall order considering Arkansas doesnít pay players and isnít exactly a destination for athletes, HOWEVER, we are knocking on the door. 

Weíre knocking on that door of the Sweet sixteen too.  So yes, while we havenít won anything yet, weíre so close!  If you really want to just scrap all of that and start in a new direction, Iíd be interested in some of your other life choices.  Weíre you 6 credit hours away from majoring in engineering and you said, ahh no, this isnít going to work out, Iím changing my major to accounting! Or maybe you were building a house and had everything in there but like the appliances and carpet and then tore the whole thing down to restart it.
Because that is what it is. 2 out of 6 years. Plenty of coaches are turning programs and recruiting around a lot faster than MA has. The books still out on this year but next year we will ha e to hear all the same excuses. Man this team is young, let them learn the system and so on. Next year we are basically back to a complete rebuild. And please donít hit me with that class ranking. Sure a solid class no doubt but the high ranking is due to so many being brought in.

It seems we are no closer to moving past the second round than we were last year. Donít give me this we got cheated junk either. We didnít score for the last 4 minutes of the ballgame because of the same reason we got blown out by LSU. We were standing around waiting on refs to bail us out and MA standing with his thumb up his butt the whole time and not calling a timeout.

I expect more and better. There was a flash of it early this season only to scrape by with two wins at home. We shouldnít be having this selfish and uninspired play. Thatís the main thing I canít stand and itís costing us ballgames.
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20gauge

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Re: How hot
« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2018, 01:31:19 pm »

And Iím well aware that MA isnít going anywhere
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GuvHog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2018, 01:42:41 pm »

Why does everybody keep saying the tournament 2 out of 6 years?  Do you not acknowledge that it takes time to upgrade the roster, get your type of players inane develop a culture?  As far as making the tournrament, he should have at least two years where he gets a pass - completely reasonable for a “system coach”

That means he’s been to the tournament 2 out of 4 years and post season and an NIT. 

To win an SECT or Reg season you’re basically asking us to be better than Kentucky.  that’s a tall order considering Arkansas doesn’t pay players and isn’t exactly a destination for athletes, HOWEVER, we are knocking on the door. 

We’re knocking on that door of the Sweet sixteen too.  So yes, while we haven’t won anything yet, we’re so close!  If you really want to just scrap all of that and start in a new direction, I’d be interested in some of your other life choices.  We’re you 6 credit hours away from majoring in engineering and you said, ahh no, this isn’t going to work out, I’m changing my major to accounting! Or maybe you were building a house and had everything in there but like the appliances and carpet and then tore the whole thing down to restart it. 



The Hogs are no where near knocking on the door of the sweet 16. They are 2-3 in conference play and could very likely be 2-4 after they play Florida. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

That being said, there are still a lot of games left so I'm not writing off this season yet.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2018, 01:49:03 pm »

Mike is in no danger.  TJ should be learning how to be head coach for when he inherits the program.

I think if you were to discuss our program with outsiders especially those who cover college basketball, they would largely be surprised with these first 6 seasons and the overall "accomplishments".  Note how reluctant the pollsters were to rank this team.  The lack of respect given last season or the 14-15 season.  Mike doesn't have the program respected.  They are still waiting to believe.  If a change were to be made(it won't be and shouldn't at this point) would not come as a great surprise to those outside of our fan base and homer media and criticism would be light if at all. 

We have an obvious division in the fan base and in this thread.  Millenials who haven't witnessed true success, experienced what the program was for most of 20+ seasons and the excitement around it or were little kids and attached a fandom to Nolan and Mike are telling others to not just lower their expectations but remove them.  I don't think some of the argument is even over a group thinking others are holding too high of expectations.  They don't want any expectations.  The other group, who is represented in this thread, have a personal desire for Mike to be coach as it is very important to them. Anyone who is critical is at least a hater if not a racist.  Exhausting, crappy situation but something which was inevitable.  And of course, always going to have the odd overly defensive fans of whomever the coach currently is.

As far as if something were to happen and change occurred and who we could hire, you have no idea.  As far as recruits gained or lost, you have no good idea.  Sure there would probably be some feelings hurt and players could be steered elsewhere depending on the new staff. 

This era is very Nutt-like on the court.  Don't think I am saying Mike has the personality flaws of Dale.  He doesn't.  It's why he won't get himself fired.  On the court, his teams are inconsistent partially because they rely so much on energy and the emotion needed to play with it.  We saw this with Nutt.  Beat a very good top 10 Texas, come home and lose for a month at home and then go back and win a few.  Just enough.  Just enough to keep his supporters happy, "fans of the current coach" fueled and others frustrated.  The basketball program is on a rollercoaster too.  It happened with Mike at Mizzou and to a larger extent here.

Since this is the situation we are in, hopefully the best happens.  We become ultra successful and Mike retires as one of the greats and happy he returned. 

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majp51

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Re: How hot
« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2018, 01:54:59 pm »

So the best security blanket for a coach is to go get a really good class committed for 3 or 4 years out, then just play the " If I leave they don't come " card.

Not to mention the statement is categorically false. In Arkansas recent history it is demonstrably false as well, I mean the best, on paper, recruiting class that anyone has had is the Class Pelphrey got the year he was fired, and CMA managed to keep all of them.
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raz1965

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Re: How hot
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2018, 02:08:45 pm »

Too put things in perspective, I would say of the 300 or so basketball teams the Razorbacks are in the top 15 percent . That would be considered good in most all aspects of life.
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Fan701

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Re: How hot
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2018, 02:40:30 pm »

Too put things in perspective, I would say of the 300 or so basketball teams the Razorbacks are in the top 15 percent . That would be considered good in most all aspects of life.
Yes, but here you're going to be measured against the 1994 Razorbacks, not against the other 300 basketball teams.  Every Arkansas basketball coach will have to live with that till the last fan with a memory of watching Scotty Thurman taking aim and firing against Duke has died.
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BallHog1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2018, 02:48:54 pm »

What I find funny is the target keeps moving.  At first it was, "Mike does not make the tourney often enough", now the new narrative is "He never makes it past the round of 32". I seriously want to know what you guys expect from a coach year in and out.  I will admit that I am tired of these lapses we had the last two years but we are also solidly in the field the last two years and anything can happen. If you think you can go find a coach that will have you in the sweet 16 every year, I want what you are drinking.
Ahhh, the Hogville expectation is simply that we win the Natty in the three major sports every year or we fire the coach every year. Its a sound plan since firing the coach has been shown over and over to result in a Natty the next year.
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hobhog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2018, 03:01:46 pm »

Too put things in perspective, I would say of the 300 or so basketball teams the Razorbacks are in the top 15 percent . That would be considered good in most all aspects of life.

Manipulating numbers doesn't help the fact there are programs with less money, less fans, and less tradition that out perform us every year. If you are fine with being a top 45 team every year then your in heaven. I'm not.
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hobhog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2018, 03:05:25 pm »

Ahhh, the Hogville expectation is simply that we win the Natty in the three major sports every year or we fire the coach every year. Its a sound plan since firing the coach has been shown over and over to result in a Natty the next year.

Who said they expect that every hear? But being in contention once in a while shouldn't be crazy. Or how about top 25 just for kicks? How many weeks has MA been ranked in 6.5 seasons?
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Randohoggie

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Re: How hot
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2018, 03:09:55 pm »

The Hogs are no where near knocking on the door of the sweet 16. They are 2-3 in conference play and could very likely be 2-4 after they play Florida. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

That being said, there are still a lot of games left so I'm not writing off this season yet.

As usual, you are dumb as dirt.  On this subject and every other.  We were close UNC losses from being Sweet 16 in 2 of the last 3 years.  This year's team is at least as good as those two teams.  The conference is better and almost all seasons have a slump somewhere in them.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2018, 03:28:12 pm »

The difference is the standard being used for comparison.

One camp uses the 1975-1995 standard of consistent and sustained excellence as a comparison. For this group, the current era comes up short.
The other camp looks at the 1996-2017 era and says 'this is the best we've had since then, so what's the problem?'

It all depends on which measurement you're using.

I'm in the first camp and know we can do better. Ark was a fixture in the NCAA in those years, it was mainly a question of seeding. And some years were deep runs. I will always use that era as a benchmark and will never settle.
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: How hot
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2018, 03:38:51 pm »

Try talking to him in football terms. He seems to understand all the pain and struggles that football coaches go through and lowers his standards for them, so maybe you can make a breakthrough with that approach.

I wish i could, but (without looking up the precise records) apparently mikes like 60-42 SEC record is equivalent to Brettís 12-30 record lol. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2018, 03:40:34 pm »

The difference is the standard being used for comparison.

One camp uses the 1975-1995 standard of consistent and sustained excellence as a comparison. For this group, the current era comes up short.
The other camp looks at the 1996-2017 era and says 'this is the best we've had since then, so what's the problem?'

It all depends on which measurement you're using.

I'm in the first camp and know we can do better. Ark was a fixture in the NCAA in those years, it was mainly a question of seeding. And some years were deep runs. I will always use that era as a benchmark and will never settle.

Yep.  Similar to what I said.

In my view, the standards should be similar to baseball program right now.  We expect to have teams capable of making it to Omaha and every once in a while good enough to win it.  Wonít get there every year.  Havenít won it yet.  But we are in the conversation.     Nationally respected.  Basketball was there for over two decades. 
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raz1965

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Re: How hot
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2018, 03:44:04 pm »

I have not settled but have hope an can see that Mike is making progress in recruiting an this team is better than last yrs was at this point.  The SEC is strong this year an his non conference schedule was stronger so the record don't always reflect the comparison between teams an improvement. I believe the Razkrbacks under Mike can achieve great things, so I have not settled but rather have faith in the program. However saying this does not mean a change of mind is not capable of happening at a appropriate time.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2018, 03:47:25 pm »

Yep.  Similar to what I said.

In my view, the standards should be similar to baseball program right now.  We expect to have teams capable of making it to Omaha and every once in a while good enough to win it.  Wonít get there every year.  Havenít won it yet.  But we are in the conversation.     Nationally respected.  Basketball was there for over two decades.
I was going to mention baseball. That is THE standard of excellence at Arkansas right now, for the SEC in some ways.
Since Van Horn took over, there has been ONE blip on the radar...2016. EVERY other season has resulted in an NCAA bid.
It's just a given. Arkansas WILL be in the NCAA Tournament. It's just a question of what seed...where will be play, etc.
So when every year results in a bid, when the team has a bad series, nobody panics. There's a calm assurance we will be there at the end. It's happened every year, why would this year be any different? Likewise, when the 2016 collapsed, I wasn't worried about it. One blip in 17 years? I can live with it. I knew they would be back in 2017 if history was any indication, and we were.

SEC baseball is a dang tough league too. Over those 17 years, it definitely has been tougher than SEC basketball.

People know good coaching when they see it. Van Horn is a great coach.
 
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: How hot
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2018, 04:09:27 pm »

Try talking to him in football terms. He seems to understand all the pain and struggles that football coaches go through and lowers his standards for them, so maybe you can make a breakthrough with that approach.

Even his Fire Mike Anderson (FMAFs) friends are like, whoooaaaa, Bret Bielema shouldnít have been fired? Thatís a little radical for me. 

I Imagine Hogsanity (HS) leading a Fire Mike Anderson rally:

HS: We got us here a Nolan impersonator!  Only difference is Nolan won a NC and recruited McDonalds All Americans!! 

FMAF: yea, Mike ainít Nolan! And he heíll as sure ainít Eddie Sutton!

HS: they donít play fundamental basketball, donít block out, run set plays, and play straight up defense until they do this, theyíll never win anything. 

FMAF: yea!! Ben Howland runs plays!! All we do is run around and jack up threes!!

*the ground is shaking because of the audibly deafening cheers, HS waits for everyone to finish, however, thereís a chant of HS that lasts well over 15 minutes*

HS: And the funny part is, they fire Bret and keep Mike!  If Mike hasnít been fired, thereís no way Bret shouldíve been fired! He managed to go 4-8 in a conference that had TWO teams in the NC. 

*crowd goes silent*

FMAF: ... uh idk about all that!
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PonderinHog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2018, 04:17:42 pm »

Not to mention the statement is categorically false. In Arkansas recent history it is demonstrably false as well, I mean the best, on paper, recruiting class that anyone has had is the Class Pelphrey got the year he was fired, and CMA managed to keep all of them.
Aaron Ross ?  Is that the right name?  Losing Marshawn in the second game didn't help either.
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PonderinHog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2018, 04:22:25 pm »

I also would like to go on record and say I'd be okay with winning the NC every other year.  I'm not delusional.
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southeasthog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #119 on: January 16, 2018, 04:25:16 pm »

I believe the Razkrbacks under Mike can achieve great things,

Here is the thing. You and many others believe this. I and many others believe he canít. So far in this his 7th season, he hasnít. Maybe he rights the ship this season and they make a run past the second round. That would be great for him, the team and the fans. But he couldnít do it with Portis and Qualls on the team and I donít think he will do it with this team.

And before Letsroll tells me to ďKeep WatchingĒ, this is my opinion just like it is his opinion he will win a NC here.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #120 on: January 16, 2018, 04:25:32 pm »

I was going to mention baseball. That is THE standard of excellence at Arkansas right now, for the SEC in some ways.
Since Van Horn took over, there has been ONE blip on the radar...2016. EVERY other season has resulted in an NCAA bid.
It's just a given. Arkansas WILL be in the NCAA Tournament. It's just a question of what seed...where will be play, etc.
So when every year results in a bid, when the team has a bad series, nobody panics. There's a calm assurance we will be there at the end. It's happened every year, why would this year be any different? Likewise, when the 2016 collapsed, I wasn't worried about it. One blip in 17 years? I can live with it. I knew they would be back in 2017 if history was any indication, and we were.

SEC baseball is a dang tough league too. Over those 17 years, it definitely has been tougher than SEC basketball.

People know good coaching when they see it. Van Horn is a great coach.

Yes.  The gap in how competitive SEC baseball is compared to basketball is laughable.  "We've won the second most games in the SEC in the last 3.47 seasons" is like finishing 2nd in the Special Olympics.  Even McPherson who spins up these numbers admits our schedule wasn't very tough.  Our basketball team rarely even accomplishes things like beating really highly ranked, prominent programs.  Almost always a double digit loss.  OU was an exception.  UNC was not.  But we are supposed to temper our expectations to just overlook those.  14-15 team wasn't even competitive against most of the better teams on the schedule. 

DVH wins.  With baseball, you don't hear about counterfeit rings or assaults by players or some things that have been kept quiet with the basketball program.  We have a season like last season, we remain calm because we know who we have in charge won't stand for it. 

You mention seeding.  Another issue where we are just supposed to ignore it.  "moving goal posts" lol.  Don't have an expectation of the basketball team regularly earning seeds suggesting they should win 2-3 games in the NCAAT.  Nope.  8 seed, 9, 10... we made it in.  Almost upset a 1.  So close to a Sweet 16.  Never mind it would have been an upset.  Don't dare expect a seed in the 3,4,5 range in many seasons.  Too much to ask.  Just wait on that 2023 recruiting class. 

It isn't having too big of expectations that is the frustration.  It is being told to have none and whatever happens spin in it into being good enough because of who the coach is.  Dumb situation to force yourself into but we did. 

Two coaches have gotten away with this at the UA:  Nutt till he couldn't help himself off the field and Mike.

Holtz - fired for program declining
Hatfield - left under pressure
Ford - fired even though he was molding some good underclassmen
Bielema - fired after 5 seasons

Nolan - fired for the program declining
Heath - fired because just making the NCAAT wasn't enough at that time
Pelphrey - fired even though APR was getting better from the mess Heath left, not winning enough even though winning was slowly going up and off the court lack of discipline.  Not good enough.  Got 4 seasons.  (was never qualified for the job)

Nutt - would have become AD had he had not screwed up the SD thing so badly
Mike - we have national recruiting analysts mentioning how it took to 6 seasons in to see the staff work hard in recruiting


You would be hard pressed to find an outsider who would say Mike has done a great job at Arkansas.  Probably couldn't find one to say he hasn't underachieved.  This is why they don't respect the program right now enough to pay much attention to it. 


Disclaimer:  Mike is a good coach, great representative of the UA and state and I'm not advocating his immediate firing. 

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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #121 on: January 16, 2018, 04:27:55 pm »

The problem is that Anderson wins just enough to keep plausible arguments being made on both sides.
Can we do better? Absolutely. Are we that bad off? Of course not.

Anderson rarely does anything great, nor does the bottom fall out.

It's actually the worst possible scenario for many of us. I would be happy either extreme. I would be thrilled to see us excel, or I would be ok with tanking. It's this middling around in between and bickering all the time back and forth with the same arguments for seven years that drives me crazy.
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MountieDawg

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Re: How hot
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2018, 04:28:41 pm »

I have not settled but have hope an can see that Mike is making progress in recruiting an this team is better than last yrs was at this point.  The SEC is strong this year an his non conference schedule was stronger so the record don't always reflect the comparison between teams an improvement. I believe the Razkrbacks under Mike can achieve great things, so I have not settled but rather have faith in the program. However saying this does not mean a change of mind is not capable of happening at a appropriate time.

Mike does well in recruiting when the state of Arkansas has 5 or 7 players in the Arkansas AAU programs that live in Arkansas and are top national talent....  When he built a wall around the state I had no idea it was meant to keep him in not recruits in.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #123 on: January 16, 2018, 04:29:14 pm »

The problem is that Anderson wins just enough to keep plausible arguments being made on both sides.
Can we do better? Absolutely. Are we that bad off? Of course not.

Anderson rarely does anything great, nor does the bottom fall out.

It's actually the worst possible scenario for many of us. I would be happy either extreme. I would be thrilled to see us excel, or I would be ok with tanking. It's this middling around in between and bickering all the time back and forth with the same arguments for seven years that drives me crazy.

The worst case scenario with this I mentioned years ago.  Can't get closure with him.  Would love to get it with him winning big. 
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: How hot
« Reply #124 on: January 16, 2018, 04:40:37 pm »

I also would like to go on record and say I'd be okay with winning the NC every other year.  I'm not delusional.

Your standards are too low.  If we could just get Bill Brasky, basketball would win multiple national championships a year.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #125 on: January 16, 2018, 04:44:23 pm »

The worst case scenario with this I mentioned years ago.  Can't get closure with him.  Would love to get it with him winning big.
Me too.
I think 90% of folks genuinely like him, and root for him.
I myself keep hoping and wishing things have changed, so when we flounder last year but end the season very strong, I was optimistic.
Then we start this year very strong, with some great non-conf wins and great RPI.
I think things reached a crescendo with all the afore-mentioned positive momentum, with the Tenn game. Packed house, exploding arena, great win.

Then the bottom fell out. Another funk, more floundering around, more games of not even getting off the bus to play. It's the how we lose, not what.

All that momentum...just wasted. Same type of 3-game funk as last year. Everyone get their hopes up that things have finally changed...and the bubble bursts.

I'm just tired of it. I want and demand to see consistent basketball being played. No more 3-game funks. No more complete no-show performances like Houston and LSU. I realize you can't win every game. But the type of crappy play as seen in the Miss St/Auburn/LSU games is the same crappy play as in the Ok St/Missouri/Vandy stretch last year. It's unacceptable and it just reminds you some things never change. When you get rolled by 26 to an average Houston team and by 21 to a decent LSU team at home...that's not the same as 'just losing'. You didn't even show up. It's like we drill somebody, or get rolled. Where's the consistency?
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: How hot
« Reply #126 on: January 16, 2018, 04:54:16 pm »

Me too.
I think 90% of folks genuinely like him, and root for him.
I myself keep hoping and wishing things have changed, so when we flounder last year but end the season very strong, I was optimistic.
Then we start this year very strong, with some great non-conf wins and great RPI.
I think things reached a crescendo with all the afore-mentioned positive momentum, with the Tenn game. Packed house, exploding arena, great win.

Then the bottom fell out. Another funk, more floundering around, more games of not even getting off the bus to play. It's the how we lose, not what.

All that momentum...just wasted. Same type of 3-game funk as last year. Everyone get their hopes up that things have finally changed...and the bubble bursts.

I'm just tired of it. I want and demand to see consistent basketball being played. No more 3-game funks. No more complete no-show performances like Houston and LSU. I realize you can't win every game. But the type of crappy play as seen in the Miss St/Auburn/LSU games is the same crappy play as in the Ok St/Missouri/Vandy stretch last year. It's unacceptable and it just reminds you some things never change. When you get rolled by 26 to an average Houston team and by 21 to a decent LSU team at home...that's not the same as 'just losing'. You didn't even show up. It's like we drill somebody, or get rolled. Where's the consistency?
Itís the roller coaster. 

We should have an expectation by this point his teams could force their will and style of play on opponents. SEC teams are forcing their pace in BWA in season 7. 
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hogsanity

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Re: How hot
« Reply #127 on: January 16, 2018, 10:55:27 pm »

Even his Fire Mike Anderson (FMAFs) friends are like, whoooaaaa, Bret Bielema shouldnít have been fired? Thatís a little radical for me. 

I Imagine Hogsanity (HS) leading a Fire Mike Anderson rally:

HS: We got us here a Nolan impersonator!  Only difference is Nolan won a NC and recruited McDonalds All Americans!! 

FMAF: yea, Mike ainít Nolan! And he heíll as sure ainít Eddie Sutton!

HS: they donít play fundamental basketball, donít block out, run set plays, and play straight up defense until they do this, theyíll never win anything. 

FMAF: yea!! Ben Howland runs plays!! All we do is run around and jack up threes!!

*the ground is shaking because of the audibly deafening cheers, HS waits for everyone to finish, however, thereís a chant of HS that lasts well over 15 minutes*

HS: And the funny part is, they fire Bret and keep Mike!  If Mike hasnít been fired, thereís no way Bret shouldíve been fired! He managed to go 4-8 in a conference that had TWO teams in the NC. 

*crowd goes silent*

FMAF: ... uh idk about all that!


Except I said after the SC game that it was obvious it was not going to work here for BB and he should go. And that is my point, it does not take a decade to turn a basketball program into a winner, but some of you would give Mike 2 decades simply because he is Mike, results are a far second to his identity. Had any other basketball coach gone 16-16 in yr 5, FCJ would have died from dehydration he would have been puking so much. But Mike goes 16-16 in yr 5 and FCJ is on here night and day telling us that Mike is the GOAT & he'd take Mike over Coach K.
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: How hot
« Reply #128 on: January 16, 2018, 11:00:58 pm »

Except I said after the SC game that it was obvious it was not going to work here for BB and he should go. And that is my point, it does not take a decade to turn a basketball program into a winner, but some of you would give Mike 2 decades simply because he is Mike, results are a far second to his identity. Had any other basketball coach gone 16-16 in yr 5, FCJ would have died from dehydration he would have been puking so much. But Mike goes 16-16 in yr 5 and FCJ is on here night and day telling us that Mike is the GOAT & he'd take Mike over Coach K.

You always love to forget to mention a few thinks about that .500 season. 

1. Just about everything that could go wrong personnel wise did. 
2. Coming off of 2 solid years and an NCAA. 
3. Upcoming class was top 25, the class after that was top 25, and the class after that was ranked number 1.  Those classes mightíve even been better than top 25 during the 15-16 season as well. 

With all that taken into consideration, he was always going to get the year, and he came through.
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daprospecta

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Re: How hot
« Reply #129 on: January 16, 2018, 11:22:54 pm »

Yes.  The gap in how competitive SEC baseball is compared to basketball is laughable.  "We've won the second most games in the SEC in the last 3.47 seasons" is like finishing 2nd in the Special Olympics.  Even McPherson who spins up these numbers admits our schedule wasn't very tough.  Our basketball team rarely even accomplishes things like beating really highly ranked, prominent programs.  Almost always a double digit loss.  OU was an exception.  UNC was not.  But we are supposed to temper our expectations to just overlook those.  14-15 team wasn't even competitive against most of the better teams on the schedule. 

DVH wins.  With baseball, you don't hear about counterfeit rings or assaults by players or some things that have been kept quiet with the basketball program.  We have a season like last season, we remain calm because we know who we have in charge won't stand for it. 

You mention seeding.  Another issue where we are just supposed to ignore it.  "moving goal posts" lol.  Don't have an expectation of the basketball team regularly earning seeds suggesting they should win 2-3 games in the NCAAT.  Nope.  8 seed, 9, 10... we made it in.  Almost upset a 1.  So close to a Sweet 16.  Never mind it would have been an upset.  Don't dare expect a seed in the 3,4,5 range in many seasons.  Too much to ask.  Just wait on that 2023 recruiting class. 

It isn't having too big of expectations that is the frustration.  It is being told to have none and whatever happens spin in it into being good enough because of who the coach is.  Dumb situation to force yourself into but we did. 

Two coaches have gotten away with this at the UA:  Nutt till he couldn't help himself off the field and Mike.

Holtz - fired for program declining
Hatfield - left under pressure
Ford - fired even though he was molding some good underclassmen
Bielema - fired after 5 seasons

Nolan - fired for the program declining
Heath - fired because just making the NCAAT wasn't enough at that time
Pelphrey - fired even though APR was getting better from the mess Heath left, not winning enough even though winning was slowly going up and off the court lack of discipline.  Not good enough.  Got 4 seasons.  (was never qualified for the job)

Nutt - would have become AD had he had not screwed up the SD thing so badly
Mike - we have national recruiting analysts mentioning how it took to 6 seasons in to see the staff work hard in recruiting


You would be hard pressed to find an outsider who would say Mike has done a great job at Arkansas.  Probably couldn't find one to say he hasn't underachieved.  This is why they don't respect the program right now enough to pay much attention to it. 


Disclaimer:  Mike is a good coach, great representative of the UA and state and I'm not advocating his immediate firing. 


So when we beat Kentucky three times who at the time had players who are starting in the NBA now, that does not count for high level wins? We are talking Kentucky when they were the Alabama version of SEC basketball.  You all have short memories.  Is Mike a great coach? No.  Is he a good coach? Yes. Lets be honest, do you think only great coaches win national championships?  We all know that is not true.  There are only a few great coaches out there and they are not coming to Arkansas.  Why fire a good coach to hire another good coach without ties to Arkansas?
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Re: How hot
« Reply #130 on: January 16, 2018, 11:34:32 pm »

So when we beat Kentucky three times who at the time had players who are starting in the NBA now, that does not count for high level wins? We are talking Kentucky when they were the Alabama version of SEC basketball.  You all have short memories.  Is Mike a great coach? No.  Is he a good coach? Yes. Lets be honest, do you think only great coaches win national championships?  We all know that is not true.  There are only a few great coaches out there and they are not coming to Arkansas.  Why fire a good coach to hire another good coach without ties to Arkansas?

What season did we beat UK three times? 
2014 had two wins vs UK.  The second came when UK was playing poorly and was easy to defend during that stretch of their season.  I remember it well. You had to reach to find any example till the OU win this season.

Not suggesting we fire him. 

I do not give a darn about Arkansas ties.  These are professionals hired to do a job. Weíve tried the Ark connection in football and basketball.  It brings problems.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2018, 12:28:58 am »

So when we beat Kentucky three times who at the time had players who are starting in the NBA now, that does not count for high level wins? We are talking Kentucky when they were the Alabama version of SEC basketball.  You all have short memories.  Is Mike a great coach? No.  Is he a good coach? Yes. Lets be honest, do you think only great coaches win national championships?  We all know that is not true.  There are only a few great coaches out there and they are not coming to Arkansas.  Why fire a good coach to hire another good coach without ties to Arkansas?
---->Is Mike a great coach? No. Is he a good coach? Yes  <-----


We're in total agreement.

The only reason you replace a good coach, really, is either scandal or if enough years go by and people eventually decide they've probably seen all they're going to see and want to try something else.
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Re: How hot
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2018, 05:03:07 am »

cool as the other side of the pillow
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Re: How hot
« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2018, 06:21:33 am »

SHOULD be on fire
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hobhog

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Re: How hot
« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2018, 07:54:49 am »

---->Is Mike a great coach? No. Is he a good coach? Yes  <-----


We're in total agreement.

The only reason you replace a good coach, really, is either scandal or if enough years go by and people eventually decide they've probably seen all they're going to see and want to try something else.

Kinda like Andy Kennedy at Ole Miss.
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Fan701

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Re: How hot
« Reply #135 on: January 17, 2018, 08:10:50 am »

Kinda like Andy Kennedy at Ole Miss.
Good analogy.  I see no reason why Ole Miss can't win a national championship if they would just replace Kennedy.  He's good but not great, and there are so many great coaches out there waiting for the phone to ring, getting one better than he is should be a cinch.  I'm kidding, but, seriously, you do have a good point.  It's hard to find a superstar coach.  In fact, good coaches like Kennedy or Anderson aren't a dime a dozen either.  Put Kennedy at Kentucky and he'd probably win national championships.  Ole Miss is not at all a basketball school and he's made them very competitive. You could probably say the same about someone like Mark Fox at Georgia.
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cram224

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Re: How hot
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2018, 08:36:11 am »

making the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney is not equaling to 7-5, more like 9-3 because you will end up almost in the top 25, and they finished #20 in the 2015 season and that's way better than Beliema ever finished
Funny, you just said what is wrong with the program. We are "almost top 25".
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hogsanity

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Re: How hot
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2018, 08:57:04 am »

What season did we beat UK three times? 
2014 had two wins vs UK.  The second came when UK was playing poorly and was easy to defend during that stretch of their season.  I remember it well. You had to reach to find any example till the OU win this season.

Not suggesting we fire him. 

I do not give a darn about Arkansas ties.  These are professionals hired to do a job. Weíve tried the Ark connection in football and basketball.  It brings problems.

And, when they mention the 2 wins of KY that year, they fail to mention that KY team went on the the final 4, and the Hogs, IIRC puked on themselves in the final 2 games and ended up in the NIT.
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rzrbkman

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Re: How hot
« Reply #138 on: January 17, 2018, 09:54:52 am »

---->Is Mike a great coach? No. Is he a good coach? Yes  <-----


We're in total agreement.

The only reason you replace a good coach, really, is either scandal or if enough years go by and people eventually decide they've probably seen all they're going to see and want to try something else.

IMO, Arkansas fans have already seen CMA's ceiling as it has become stagnant and went as high as it ever will.
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cram224

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Re: How hot
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2018, 10:06:48 am »

Do most fans expect a NC? Hell no. I think the majority just want to wake up on selection Sunday and worry seeding not if we got into tournament. As for seat, Nolan said something after he had reached the final four that you had to keep stoking the fire. I wish CMA would please put a log on the fire because it's dam cold out here.
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hogsanity

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Re: How hot
« Reply #140 on: January 17, 2018, 10:12:28 am »

Do most fans expect a NC? Hell no. I think the majority just want to wake up on selection Sunday and worry seeding not if we got into tournament. As for seat, Nolan said something after he had reached the final four that you had to keep stoking the fire. I wish CMA would please put a log on the fire because it's dam cold out here.

For me it is not NC's or sec titles. I am just tired of watching them lose games the same way year after year. You can count on the following:

3 or 4 times a year some guy who averages like 6 ppg will go ff for 18+ on the best shooting night of his career.

2 or 3 times a year some team will have their best shooting night of the year form 3 pt range against the Hogs

2 or 3 times a year the Hogs will lose a wth, how'd they lose to that team ( see Mizzu and Vandy last year )

1 or 2 times a year they will lose a game because they give up a offensive rebound late.

And mixed in there will be a game or two where the offense just looks like they are lost all night.
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daprospecta

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Re: How hot
« Reply #141 on: January 17, 2018, 03:28:14 pm »

Do most fans expect a NC? Hell no. I think the majority just want to wake up on selection Sunday and worry seeding not if we got into tournament. As for seat, Nolan said something after he had reached the final four that you had to keep stoking the fire. I wish CMA would please put a log on the fire because it's dam cold out here.
We have not had to sweat out a selection Sunday the last 2 out of 3 years and we are solidly in at the moment. 
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Re: How hot
« Reply #142 on: January 17, 2018, 03:36:30 pm »

We have not had to sweat out a selection Sunday the last 2 out of 3 years and we are solidly in at the moment. 

2 years out of 6 is not good enough, especially when the Hogs went 15-15 in Mike's 5th year as HC.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How hot
« Reply #143 on: January 17, 2018, 04:21:10 pm »

Good analogy.  I see no reason why Ole Miss can't win a national championship if they would just replace Kennedy.  He's good but not great, and there are so many great coaches out there waiting for the phone to ring, getting one better than he is should be a cinch.  I'm kidding, but, seriously, you do have a good point.  It's hard to find a superstar coach.  In fact, good coaches like Kennedy or Anderson aren't a dime a dozen either.  Put Kennedy at Kentucky and he'd probably win national championships.  Ole Miss is not at all a basketball school and he's made them very competitive. You could probably say the same about someone like Mark Fox at Georgia.
Andy Kennedy at Ole Miss is a good example since he's been at same school for a long time and if Ole Miss is itchy for a change they could make the argument 'we've probably seen everything we're going to see, so let's try somebody new'.

It's a bad analogy in the sense Ole Miss doesn't have nearly the basketball history Arkansas does.
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