Should Mike start Darious Hall?

[The_Iceman]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

[hogwood]

It's definitely worth an experiment or two.

[hawginbigd1]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play start level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

It's worth a try, i was saying CJ would be a possibility with Beard leading the 2nd group, got to do something to get those 3 guards to 30 minutes or less. I have said from the start that i would start TT also to balance the rotation and to protect Gafford.

[The_Iceman]

I've just always felt a second unit of Jones, Hall, Bailey/Thomas, and Trey felt clunky. The absence of Garland is felt there. Switching Hall and Beard cleans that up some.

[PonderinHog]

I've been asking myself the same thing, which may or may not make it a bad idea.   

[razorpimp]

I've just always felt a second unit of Jones, Hall, Bailey/Thomas, and Trey felt clunky. The absence of Garland is felt there. Switching Hall and Beard cleans that up some.

I don't like the idea of two freshmen playing in the front line to start games.....just sounds like 4 quick fouls right off that bat.

[HogNiner12]

Why, so beard can make the second unit worse than they already are? Worst decision maker on this team!!!!

[The_Iceman]

Why, so beard can make the second unit worse than they already are? Worst decision maker on this team!!!!

Anton averages the same amount of minutes and turnovers per game as Barford and Macon. In almost half the minutes, Thompson and Hall are averaging the same amount of turnovers.

So I don't think it's justified to say is the the worst decision maker on the team.

[daprospecta]

Anton averages the same amount of minutes and turnovers per game as Barford and Macon. In almost half the minutes, Thompson and Hall are averaging the same amount of turnovers.

So I don't think it's justified to say is the the worst decision maker on the team.

I think it feels that way because Macon and Barford have 20+ games all the time so many tend to ignore the turnovers they commit.

[HF#1]

You suggesting this as an overall improvement or an on the road adjustment?

[hogsanity]

I think it feels that way because Macon and Barford have 20+ games all the time so many tend to ignore the turnovers they commit.

those two are being asked to do everything right now including playing over 35mpg

[King Kong]

Anything that can balance out the units and reduces the mins of our big 3 Guards early in the game is better.

Right now Barford has dead legs from our conditioning and his large mins.

Now it's not uncommon for this to happen are this time of year to MA teams and normally they rebound as are so well conditioned.

But Barford and Macon are playing more than MA's Guards normally do

[dawn2tusk]

I said Hall should start back on Oct 21st after the Red/White game.  I'm a genius.  Disclaimer....I was trying to spell genius with the letter o in it.  Thank you spell check.

[niels_boar]

Not a bad idea, but maybe jumping the gun.  I think Hall definitely earned more minutes against Auburn, which is a big plus to our defense and getting the starting guards more rest.  However, he's had significant foul and TO problems, not unusual for a frosh.  He avoided both against the Tigers, which is an encouraging sign.  I don't know that I would start him against the stronger defensive teams just yet.

The safest way to improve the D out of the gate without disrupting the O much is probably to start Bailey or Cook over Thomas at the PF.  Thomas would add some scoring to the second unit where he might get more shots.  The downside is that Thomas and Thompson aren't a good pair on D.  The rotations might have to be adjusted so that Thomas comes back on the court with Gafford after his first rest and that Thompson plays with Cook or Bailey.

We could use more rim protection inside and better perimeter defense.  That's Bailey.

Against the smallish, athletic, perimeter teams like UT and Auburn I'd like to see Bailey, Cook, and Hall get more run.

[The_Iceman]

You suggesting this as an overall improvement or an on the road adjustment?

Overall. We started slow against Tennessee as well.

I'm not really suggesting giving Hall more minutes, just that his minutes are played with a different group of players.

Playing next yo Macon and Barford, he won't have to worry about scoring, just playing defense and rebounding and let the offense come to his.

[lynbug]

Overall. We started slow against Tennessee as well.

I'm not really suggesting giving Hall more minutes, just that his minutes are played with a different group of players.

[/b]Playing next yo Macon and Barford, he won't have to worry about scoring, just playing defense and rebounding and let the offense come to his.

Agree totally with these two points.  I've thought all year that Barford, Macon and Beard on the floor (and starting) is too much competition at guard.  I think Beard would be more of a facilitator in the second group. (And yes I know that there's not necessarily two groups....just the starters....the other groupings are fluid.  I just don't like those three starting together...JMO).  I also know that you were not talking about replacing Beard with Hall...I just got off on that tangent.

[HawgHeadCheese]

I think that's a great idea. He plays very aggressive and rebounds his butt off. That will help ease some of the guards minutes, improve defense, and give the 2nd unit a fresh ball handler in Beard.

[rzrbackramsfan]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

I definitely think it'd be worth a try.

[razorback1829]

Not a bad idea, but maybe jumping the gun.  I think Hall definitely earned more minutes against Auburn, which is a big plus to our defense and getting the starting guards more rest.  However, he's had significant foul and TO problems, not unusual for a frosh.  He avoided both against the Tigers, which is an encouraging sign.  I don't know that I would start him against the stronger defensive teams just yet.

The safest way to improve the D out of the gate without disrupting the O much is probably to start Bailey or Cook over Thomas at the PF.  Thomas would add some scoring to the second unit where he might get more shots.  The downside is that Thomas and Thompson aren't a good pair on D.  The rotations might have to be adjusted so that Thomas comes back on the court with Gafford after his first rest and that Thompson plays with Cook or Bailey.

We could use more rim protection inside and better perimeter defense.  That's Bailey.

Against the smallish, athletic, perimeter teams like UT and Auburn I'd like to see Bailey, Cook, and Hall get more run.

Time for Thomas to be the 3rd option. Time to let Bailey play without looking over his shoulder and take advantage of our athleticism. Cook is playing good right now, is a better defender, and will prove to be a better scorer. I would even put Gave O over Thomas. Have you ever seen Thomas tip dunk? Dunk period? Time to use our length.

[labb]

Something that needs to be though about. If you are going to bust up the three starting guards of Macon, Barford and Beard and start Hall then it would make sense to me that you don't leave Macon and Barford on the court together. Break them up in the rotation so that you always have one of them on the court at all times. Stick Hall in for one of them. Wait, now that I think about it that is what usually happens when we start to sub for the guards.

[AlmaHog2011]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

Yes he plays his arse off on defense and is a great athlete. Very intense with plenty talent.

[AlmaHog2011]

Time for Thomas to be the 3rd option. Time to let Bailey play without looking over his shoulder and take advantage of our athleticism. Cook is playing good right now, is a better defender, and will prove to be a better scorer. I would even put Gave O over Thomas. Have you ever seen Thomas tip dunk? Dunk period? Time to use our length.

Bailey needs to play and play a lot.

[beachhog]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

I like that idea for Anton. When CJ gets going again, more rest for Macon.  Fatigue is hurting our guards big time.

[fineswine]

I think it feels that way because Macon and Barford have 20+ games all the time so many tend to ignore the turnovers they commit.

He also averages fewer assists than Barford and Macon. He shoots 41% from the field; considerably lower than the other two. That in itself is as bad as a turnover.

[hawgball40]

I'd rather see Darious hall be getting major minutes over beard. valuable development. let beard come off the bench as an emotional lift, splitting time backing macon and barford. let jones back hall, and make the two interchangeable depending on if cj is hitting. to me that would be a much better lineup than the 3 guard weave.

[bigred223]

Time for Thomas to be the 3rd option. Time to let Bailey play without looking over his shoulder and take advantage of our athleticism. Cook is playing good right now, is a better defender, and will prove to be a better scorer. I would even put Gave O over Thomas. Have you ever seen Thomas tip dunk? Dunk period? Time to use our length.

This. 100%

[lynbug]

This. 100%

If you look at the stats Bailey scores more than Thomas, blocks more shots (18 to 0) and gets more offensive rebounds  which I think everyone agrees we need more of.  So...yeah, start Bailey.  Thomas has missed a few dishes under the basket lately.  Not sure, but Bailey seems a little more agile and quicker.

[Rbill]

I think we need to abandon the idea of a wholesale 1st and 2nd unit. Doesn't have to be that way. Leads to the black/white kind of thinking that leads to us forgetting about players on the bench, stops us from sitting players not performing, and less likely to elongate minutes of guys bringing the mojo in the moment. It's time for the next unit after all.

[blu]

Coach mixes and matches throughout the game once he starts subbing.

[Letsroll1200]

Next game

Anton Beard - Sometimes he gets outside his role and tries to keep up with Barford/Macon. Still has a 2 guard mentality.
Barford
Macon
Cook
Gafford

The only change in the line up should be Thomas. There was times he didn't even jump for rebounds against Auburn. He was moving in slow motion and I don't know what the problem may be.

[Big Nasty 34]

I think we need to abandon the idea of a wholesale 1st and 2nd unit. Doesn't have to be that way. Leads to the black/white kind of thinking that leads to us forgetting about players on the bench, stops us from sitting players not performing, and less likely to elongate minutes of guys bringing the mojo in the moment. It's time for the next unit after all.

We really haven't had the wholesale units this year, see Macon and Barford's minutes. Starting Hall instead of Beard would possibly maximize the rotations that we already have. It would definitely add some nice toughness and length on the wing defensively.

[razorback1829]

Next game

Anton Beard - Sometimes he gets outside his role and tries to keep up with Barford/Macon. Still has a 2 guard mentality.
Barford
Macon
Cook
Gafford

The only change in the line up should be Thomas. There was times he didn't even jump for rebounds against Auburn. He was moving in slow motion and I don't know what the problem may be.
[/quote]

That's cause he's not good. 5th year senior and he still doesn't get it. Time for the athletes to play. Hall too.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I see the most agreement on Thomas.  He just hasn't progressed much if at all and is a liability more than an asset.  He will occasionally sneak up on you and have some decent minutes but not enough to justify the volume he is playing.  Begs the question where would we be if Cook had not had his legal troubles.

[cardsNhogs]

I see the most agreement on Thomas.  He just hasn't progressed much if at all and is a liability more than an asset.  He will occasionally sneak up on you and have some decent minutes but not enough to justify the volume he is playing.  Begs the question where would we be if Cook had not had his legal troubles.

Anybody for Thomas needs to happen. I think Hall starting in place of Beard would be good idea also

[Danny J]

I've said this for years...if we are gonna switch all picks then we need length and athleticism. So it wouldn't hurt to give Hall more minutes or Jones and let them find themselves. Also if I were the HC Trey would only play when necessary. Actually I would just stop switching all picks and that solves that problem.

[FineAsSwine]

Anybody for Thomas needs to happen. I think Hall starting in place of Beard would be good idea also

Don't know if he should start but his minutes need to go way up. Only thing holding him back is his propensity to pick up fouls in bunches and he turns the ball over way too much. Fix those two things and he may not start but he would play starters minutes.

[cardsNhogs]

I've said this for years...if we are gonna switch all picks then we need length and athleticism. So it wouldn't hurt to give Hall more minutes or Jones and let them find themselves. Also if I were the HC Trey would only play when necessary. Actually I would just stop switching all picks and that solves that problem.

Yes!!!

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Don't know if he should start but his minutes need to go way up. Only thing holding him back is his propensity to pick up fouls in bunches and he turns the ball over way too much. Fix those two things and he may not start but he would play starters minutes.

I think the TOs are just lack of experience or nerves.  When he went in the first time in the AU game I was like ugh.  But as his minutes increased his productivity went up and mistakes went down.  Get him more PT and I bet the trend continues

[rude1]

I've said this for years...if we are gonna switch all picks then we need length and athleticism. So it wouldn't hurt to give Hall more minutes or Jones and let them find themselves. Also if I were the HC Trey would only play when necessary. Actually I would just stop switching all picks and that solves that problem.

Count me in. Nothing frustrates me to no end than watching Trey Thompson come in and we continue to switch all ball screens leaving Trey trying to defend a guard who can handle the ball. I am still trying to figure out why switching everything gives us any kind of defensive advantage? I could give you a list of problems that it creates but not a single positive can I think of.

[FineAsSwine]

I think the TOs are just lack of experience or nerves.  When he went in the first time in the AU game I was like ugh.  But as his minutes increased his productivity went up and mistakes went down.  Get him more PT and I bet the trend continues

You might be right and I hope you are because this kid could help a lot on the boards and on defense.

[Big Nasty 34]

I've said this for years...if we are gonna switch all picks then we need length and athleticism. So it wouldn't hurt to give Hall more minutes or Jones and let them find themselves. Also if I were the HC Trey would only play when necessary. Actually I would just stop switching all picks and that solves that problem.

Or at least play more of the matchup zone. Would probably help CJ defensively and get more playing time, too.

[CDBHawg]

Starters:
Beard
Macon
Barford
Bailey
Gafford


Next unit:
Beard/Macon/Barford
Jones/Macon/Barford
Hall
Cook
Thompson

Garland would/will help this team tremendously. Thomas appears to be what he is. Just not that great, but serviceable.

[Hawg Red]

I agree with you 100%, Ice.

I've always felt Beard was best with the second unit. I'm fine with him playing heavy minutes (maybe not 30 a game but 25-27), but I thought from the start that second unit needed a veteran in the backcourt. I actually think Beard, Thomas and Trey/Cook, should all be coming off the bench. They're seniors and, for the most part, we know what they have to offer (and don't have to offer). As long as guys like Bailey and Hall are playing well enough to justify the minutes, I think they should be starting for the growth and development because they will definitely be in there next year. Put your playmakers out there to start the game. Barford and Macon in the backcourt, Gafford in the middle, and then Bailey and Hall in the frontcourt as defensive playmakers around the other 3 (also having the ability to contribute here and there on offense as we've seen).

I think Cook and Trey need to be interchanged based on matchup as well. There are times when we really need to go with a quicker group and Trey hurts us there. And there will be times where we do need a big body down there where Cook might hurt us. I'm still seeing the preference given to Trey when Gafford goes out regardless of situation. It's adjustment I'd like to see.

[The_Iceman]

Huh, well take a look at that....

[rzrbackramsfan]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

Oh so close.  Hall starting for Macon/Beard or Barford is a good idea though. 


Quite the coming out for Hall.

[beachhog]

There are a couple of reasons I think this makes sense for us:

1) it gets a longer defender in the starting unit to help cover the opposing team's 6'5"-6'7" wing player. Maybe we can get those early threes in the game contested and turn them into misses. He also provides length for rebounding early to help us get off to a better start and maybe some transition buckets.

2) Getting Anton into the 2nd unit seems like it would help balance the rotations out. He would be able to come in with CJ, Bailey, and Trey to i think provide a more well rounded 2nd unit.

Of course, Anton will still play starter level minutes and Mike can decide who to finish games out with, but I think this change would help us start off better in the first 10 minutes of the game.

Thoughts?

Agree. He should start over Macon or Beard.  The frosh were the MVP's tonight

[razorbackfan4life]

I would rather him start over Beard.  I feel like Anton presses sometimes because he's supposed to be a leader.  Would love to have him come off the bench and put in 10-12 pts. 

If you put Hall in the starting lineup you get better defense and overall athleticism. 

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

The cynic in me does wonder if there was more to Macon not starting than getting a spark off the bench.

[b-ball coach]

He refused to answer questions after the game about not starting... sometimes what we don't say says more than what we do.

[TNhawgfan]

The cynic in me does wonder if there was more to Macon not starting than getting a spark off the bench.

Maybe he ate some bad shell fish