Barnes

[ThisTeetsTaken]

I'm wondering about the kid from Cabot.  What have the coaches said will be his position?  Has anyone seen him play in person? What are his strengths?

[Cinco de Hogo]

Doubt anyone knows anymore than that he is supposed to start out at receiver.  Way to early!

[ricepig]

I'm wondering about the kid from Cabot.  What have the coaches said will be his position?  Has anyone seen him play in person? What are his strengths?

Yep, he'll be a slot receiver/kick returner. I saw him play RB as a Sophomore after he broke his hand, he's a playmaker. I know he even played some WR for Cabot some this year.

[bennyl08]

I'm wondering about the kid from Cabot.  What have the coaches said will be his position?  Has anyone seen him play in person? What are his strengths?

University listed him as a WR in the recruiting day announcements.

In person, no. However, I've watched his highlights. He and Warren are both extremely similar athletes. Barnes is a little bit more explosive, IMO, both have about the same top speed. Both are extremely loose hipped and can swivel and change direction with ease. Both played qb in HS, but Barnes I wouldn't want throwing a pass, even on a trick play. Warren obviously isn't going to be a starting qb in college, but I thought his passes were about as good as Dmac's in the wildcat.

Both are very much in the mold of Stewart here and Adams before him. Warren at the nike combine posted under electronically finished and iirc hand started times in the 3-cone that would have put him 2nd in the entire NFL combine last year and I'd put Barne's ability right up there with Warren, but Barnes only has hearsay times and word of mouth, nothing official.

[Richard Davenport]

I saw him his junior year against LR Central and knew then you was going to get an offer from Arkansas. He has the burst and quickness you need at slot.

The Hogs really did well with Jarrod, Barkley and Warren. They've improved the speed at receiver with these guys.

[hvsupastar]

Punt Returner

[jackflash]

Both Barnes and JC Martin are suppose to under 4.4 can't double team both of them

[hvsupastar]

Barnes isn't a 4.4. More like 4.6.  But he may run the fastest 5-10-5 of any razorback

[Peter Porker]

Barnes won't wow you on the track (I doubt he runs a 4.6 electronic time 40), but his first 3 steps are as fast as anyone's and he's extremely explosive and athletic.

His fastest 100m last year was 11.57. I believe he only ran it once, maybe twice because he was only on the track team part time. Even with that though, he still did really well in the horizontal jumps. I believe he won 7A state in the long jump and came in 2nd in the triple. I'd have to go back and look to be for sure.

[zebradynasty]

Barnes won't wow you on the track (I doubt he runs a 4.6 electronic time 40), but his first 3 steps are as fast as anyone's and he's extremely explosive and athletic.

You think he's slower than 4.6?

[Peter Porker]

You think he's slower than 4.6?

If he were at the NFL combine I would guess he would run in the mid to high 4.7s.


With that said, he is explosive and very quick.

[zebradynasty]

If he were at the NFL combine I would guess he would run in the mid to high 4.7s.


With that said, he is explosive and very quick.

Wow! I never believed the 4.4 nonsense but I would have thought faster than 4.7. He looked fast when we played him but our team speed was down last season.

[Peter Porker]

Wow! I never believed the 4.4 nonsense but I would have thought faster than 4.7. He looked fast when we played him but our team speed was down last season.

He's like Jerry Rice. When he's on the field it's like he has another speed that just doesn't show up on the track.

[ricepig]

Wow! I never believed the 4.4 nonsense but I would have thought faster than 4.7. He looked fast when we played him but our team speed was down last season.

Very few actually run the 4.4 listed, lol.

[zebradynasty]

Very few actually run the 4.4 listed, lol.

True but I knew he wasn't even close!

[Peter Porker]

Very few actually run the 4.4 listed, lol.

Ain't that the truth. Of course, I don't blame kids for saying they run 4.4 when posters on message boards call 4.7 slow.

[ricepig]

True but I knew he wasn't even close!

The two years we played him, we had trouble tackling him, of course, we had trouble tackling most. Anyway, he's fast enough, and very shifty/agile.

[bennyl08]

Those of you saying you think he runs a 4.7 or 4.6 are likely basing it off of the players around him and guessing from there.

A much better way to do that is to judge the players speed relative to the field. The field is the same length be it small Arkansas U.S. or the NFL.

First, I'd recommend you watch Warren and Barnes tape back to back. Warren has an electronic times 4.5 and changebforty. Watch Barnes and tell me you think Barnes is a tenth or more of a second slower. Personally, I think their burst is about the same with Barnes a sliver faster top end.

To help with calibrating your eyes to what different speeds are, watch Dmac and Knile relative to the field to see what sub 4.4 looks like. Watch Adam's and Wright to see what 4.4 looks like. Watch Collins to see what 4.5 looks like. Take that then watch the HS tape and you can get a more accurate guess than the listed times or trying to guess what the competition is doing.

[ricepig]

Those of you saying you think he runs a 4.7 or 4.6 are likely basing it off of the players around him and guessing from there.

A much better way to do that is to judge the players speed relative to the field. The field is the same length be it small Arkansas U.S. or the NFL.

First, I'd recommend you watch Warren and Barnes tape back to back. Warren has an electronic times 4.5 and changebforty. Watch Barnes and tell me you think Barnes is a tenth or more of a second slower. Personally, I think their burst is about the same with Barnes a sliver faster top end.

To help with calibrating your eyes to what different speeds are, watch Dmac and Knile relative to the field to see what sub 4.4 looks like. Watch Adam's and Wright to see what 4.4 looks like. Watch Collins to see what 4.5 looks like. Take that then watch the HS tape and you can get a more accurate guess than the listed times or trying to guess what the competition is doing.

The only time that can't be questioned is a laser time with both the start and finish electronically timed, anything out side of that is speculative.

[Peter Porker]

Those of you saying you think he runs a 4.7 or 4.6 are likely basing it off of the players around him and guessing from there.

A much better way to do that is to judge the players speed relative to the field. The field is the same length be it small Arkansas U.S. or the NFL.

First, I'd recommend you watch Warren and Barnes tape back to back. Warren has an electronic times 4.5 and changebforty. Watch Barnes and tell me you think Barnes is a tenth or more of a second slower. Personally, I think their burst is about the same with Barnes a sliver faster top end.

To help with calibrating your eyes to what different speeds are, watch Dmac and Knile relative to the field to see what sub 4.4 looks like. Watch Adam's and Wright to see what 4.4 looks like. Watch Collins to see what 4.5 looks like. Take that then watch the HS tape and you can get a more accurate guess than the listed times or trying to guess what the competition is doing.

I've seen him run. on a track. in person.

[Dominicanhog]

Is he faster than Drew Morgan?

[ricepig]

Is he faster than Drew Morgan?

I've never seen them race.

[Dominicanhog]

I've never seen them race.

ha.. if he is, he's plenty fast...

[orgkeith]

Barnes and Morgan both ran 4.8 plus at combines.  Will be interesting to see what Morgan does at the NFL combine.

[bennyl08]

The only time that can't be questioned is a laser time with both the start and finish electronically timed, anything out side of that is speculative.

https://n.rivals.com/news/times-get-a-sparq-1

[Peter Porker]

https://n.rivals.com/news/times-get-a-sparq-1

SPARQ timing is a handheld start and laser finish. There still can be some error, but it's better than a full hand time 40.

[bennyl08]

SPARQ timing is a handheld start and laser finish. There still can be some error, but it's better than a full hand time 40.

The problem with the start is that there is no error free way to do it, despite ricepig's claims.

Namely, having a laser start will start things too soon. Twitch of the hand, breathing too deeply, etc... Having a timer start measures the players reaction time as well as how fast they are. Hand start incorporates reaction time errors in whoever is starting it.

Having done some homemade forty timing, there's a lot of consensus on when the person starts, and wide variability in when a person finishes. So, you get several people to do the start, electronically time the finish, take the average time and then add on the average human reaction time to the total.

Don't think sparq does that last bit. However, fun fact, even with all the electronic times, NFL scouts at the combine and pro-days will still typically use their own handheld times over the electronic ones. Perhaps it gives them a common base to work off of, so that they can compare their handheld time at the combine to athletes they time w/o access to electronic times. Who knows.

[ricepig]

The problem with the start is that there is no error free way to do it, despite ricepig's claims.

Namely, having a laser start will start things too soon. Twitch of the hand, breathing too deeply, etc... Having a timer start measures the players reaction time as well as how fast they are. Hand start incorporates reaction time errors in whoever is starting it.

Having done some homemade forty timing, there's a lot of consensus on when the person starts, and wide variability in when a person finishes. So, you get several people to do the start, electronically time the finish, take the average time and then add on the average human reaction time to the total.

Don't think sparq does that last bit. However, fun fact, even with all the electronic times, NFL scouts at the combine and pro-days will still typically use their own handheld times over the electronic ones. Perhaps it gives them a common base to work off of, so that they can compare their handheld time at the combine to athletes they time w/o access to electronic times. Who knows.

Start them with a gun, or with blocks that start the timer, seems I've seen that done elsewhere.....

[Peter Porker]

Start them with a gun, or with blocks that start the timer, seems I've seen that done elsewhere.....

Yep. Professional track meets.

[ricepig]

Yep. Professional track meets.

Bingo, let's make all high school prospects run their 40 at a professional track meet, problem solved.

[Peter Porker]

Bingo, let's make all high school prospects run their 40 at a professional track meet, problem solved.

And if they false start they automatically get a 5.5 time.

[presidenthog]

Those of you saying you think he runs a 4.7 or 4.6 are likely basing it off of the players around him and guessing from there.

A much better way to do that is to judge the players speed relative to the field. The field is the same length be it small Arkansas U.S. or the NFL.

First, I'd recommend you watch Warren and Barnes tape back to back. Warren has an electronic times 4.5 and changebforty. Watch Barnes and tell me you think Barnes is a tenth or more of a second slower. Personally, I think their burst is about the same with Barnes a sliver faster top end.

To help with calibrating your eyes to what different speeds are, watch Dmac and Knile relative to the field to see what sub 4.4 looks like. Watch Adam's and Wright to see what 4.4 looks like. Watch Collins to see what 4.5 looks like. Take that then watch the HS tape and you can get a more accurate guess than the listed times or trying to guess what the competition is doing.

I watched barnes,and then Warren. I came away feeling like barnes was the over all better athlete.more burst, quickness, and over all athleticism. Warren seemed like a mix of Jcorn and Morgan. Nothing wrong with that.

[bennyl08]

Start them with a gun, or with blocks that start the timer, seems I've seen that done elsewhere.....

That's fine for track, but football isn't track. The goal of a forty time isn't to measure reaction time whereas that is a major emphasis for a track run. Reaction time is important during the game and if you want to test a player's reaction and go, that's fine. Those things are typically done in positional drills though and is not the primary objective of the forty time and thus is introducing confounding variables into the measurement. A person with slower acceleration and top speed could get a faster forty time and 10 yard split than somebody who is objectively faster and quicker just because the other person didn't spend time training to be a track runner like the slower one.

[bennyl08]

I watched barnes,and then Warren. I came away feeling like barnes was the over all better athlete.more burst, quickness, and over all athleticism. Warren seemed like a mix of Jcorn and Morgan. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree with the first part, but largely to a negligible extent. I think Barnes is a bit faster, bit more explosive, bit more wiggle, but talking on the order of hundredths of a second and not tenths. But, opinions are like third nipples, amiright?

[ricepig]

That's fine for track, but football isn't track. The goal of a forty time isn't to measure reaction time whereas that is a major emphasis for a track run. Reaction time is important during the game and if you want to test a player's reaction and go, that's fine. Those things are typically done in positional drills though and is not the primary objective of the forty time and thus is introducing confounding variables into the measurement. A person with slower acceleration and top speed could get a faster forty time and 10 yard split than somebody who is objectively faster and quicker just because the other person didn't spend time training to be a track runner like the slower one.

Fine, start the time when their foot leaves a block, their head crosses a line, anything that is uniform and takes the human element out if it, and makes it universal. Anyway, it doesn't matter, coaches know what they want, and what a kid runs. We just arguing about it, lol.

[PorkSoda]

University listed him as a WR in the recruiting day announcements.

In person, no. However, I've watched his highlights. He and Warren are both extremely similar athletes. Barnes is a little bit more explosive, IMO, both have about the same top speed. Both are extremely loose hipped and can swivel and change direction with ease. Both played qb in HS, but Barnes I wouldn't want throwing a pass, even on a trick play. Warren obviously isn't going to be a starting qb in college, but I thought his passes were about as good as Dmac's in the wildcat.

Both are very much in the mold of Stewart here and Adams before him. Warren at the nike combine posted under electronically finished and iirc hand started times in the 3-cone that would have put him 2nd in the entire NFL combine last year and I'd put Barne's ability right up there with Warren, but Barnes only has hearsay times and word of mouth, nothing official.

so when are we going to put guys like that on defense?

[Peter Porker]

That's fine for track, but football isn't track. The goal of a forty time isn't to measure reaction time whereas that is a major emphasis for a track run. Reaction time is important during the game and if you want to test a player's reaction and go, that's fine. Those things are typically done in positional drills though and is not the primary objective of the forty time and thus is introducing confounding variables into the measurement. A person with slower acceleration and top speed could get a faster forty time and 10 yard split than somebody who is objectively faster and quicker just because the other person didn't spend time training to be a track runner like the slower one.

Wouldn't a slower reaction time create a slower 40?

[PorkSoda]

Wouldn't a slower reaction time create a slower 40?

he means someone who is faster, but has a slower reaction time will get a slower 40 time than someone who is slower but perfectly times his start.

[bennyl08]

Fine, start the time when their foot leaves a block, their head crosses a line, anything that is uniform and takes the human element out if it, and makes it universal. Anyway, it doesn't matter, coaches know what they want, and what a kid runs. We just arguing about it, lol.

For sure. But hey, some nerds out there had to argue and debate the logistics of measuring things. That's how things eventually change.

[passinghog]

If you've really watched enough football and know what speed looks like, it's not hard to tell if a guy runs a 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, or 4.6 on tape. Like the poster above, if you train our eyes to know what a 4.3 or 4.4 looks like, the way they outun angles, it doesn't matter if they're running with a field of 4.7 guys. Where is the tape on Barnes?

[Tarheelhawg]

You think he's slower than 4.6?

He is quicker than fast but appears no slower than 4.5 but all speculative.  He will make an impact with his speed next year IMHO.

[jgphillips3]

I think Barnes best speed comparison would be Joe Adams.  Remember how shocked we were by Joe's 40 time at the combine?  Some kids just have that quickness and suddenness to them that make their on field speed better than track speed.  I think Barnes has that.  If he breaks into the open, a 4.4 corner with an angle can run him down but if he sees that guy he might break his ankles and get to the end zone anyway.

[hvsupastar]

I think Barnes best speed comparison would be Joe Adams.  Remember how shocked we were by Joe's 40 time at the combine?  Some kids just have that quickness and suddenness to them that make their on field speed better than track speed.  I think Barnes has that.  If he breaks into the open, a 4.4 corner with an angle can run him down but if he sees that guy he might break his ankles and get to the end zone anyway.

I think Joe Adams is the best comparison.  Size, Speed, Quickness. Everything similiar

[Peter Porker]

I think Joe Adams is the best comparison.  Size, Speed, Quickness. Everything similiar

I cannot disagree here. He will get stronger and faster on the hill.