Rankings

[hawgfan4life]

What AR kids are they clamoring about?  Besides Byers.

I am not going to name the players by name.  That would be unfair to the kids even if most people realize who they are.  If you truly don't know, welcome to the recruiting page.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Looking at 247's rankings, explain how Miss St is ranked ahead of us?  Miss St shows to have 5 - 4* (but I only count 4) 18 - 3*, 1 - 2* and 1 - 0*;  Ark is showing 4 - 4*, 20 - 3*   What am I missing?

But isn't it based on a point system?  You have to be in a certain point range to be a 4 star and 3 star and so on.  So by points, not all 4 stars are quite the same.  Neither are 3 stars.  Maybe most of MSU's players fall higher in the point range than ours.  Regardless, the classes probably aren't different in any meaningful way.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I am not going to name the players by name.  That would be unfair to the kids even if most people realize who they are.  If you truly don't know, welcome to the recruiting page.

Geez, someone already named Norwood.  I had blanked out with him.  Too fixated on all the Byers hubbub.

[Hogwild]

Looking at 247's rankings, explain how Miss St is ranked ahead of us?  Miss St shows to have 5 - 4* (but I only count 4) 18 - 3*, 1 - 2* and 1 - 0*;  Ark is showing 4 - 4*, 20 - 3*   What am I missing?

Not all 4 star and 3 star players are equal.

For example their highest rated player Gay was a 9.63, our highest rated player CC was a 9.33.  Both were considered 4 stars.

Usually if you look at the team's average rating it give a indication of the overall ranking.  Our avg. recruit rating is still higher, because one of Mississippi State's signees isn't ranked.  24/7 I believe only factors in the top 20 or 22 signees to the rankings. Basically they feel that State's top 22 players are better than our top 22 players. State really benefited from Ole Miss troubles.


Also Kentucky is behind us ranked and they have the same number of 4 (four) & 3 (twenty) star commits as we do. But none of their players are ranked as high as CC.

[hawginbigd1]

But isn't it based on a point system?  You have to be in a certain point range to be a 4 star and 3 star and so on.  So by points, not all 4 stars are quite the same.  Neither are 3 stars.  Maybe most of MSU's players fall higher in the point range than ours.  Regardless, the classes probably aren't different in any meaningful way.

Except many don't realize or they forget about another flaw in the rankings system, #1-100 gets bonus points that #101 + doesn't get. # 101-300 gets bonus points that #301 doesn't get in most of the ratings, and the 247 composite takes those into account, that is why MSU is most likely rated ahead of us.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Except many don't realize or they forget about another flaw in the rankings system, #1-100 gets bonus points that #101 + doesn't get. # 101-300 gets bonus points that #301 doesn't get in most of the ratings, and the 247 composite takes those into account, that is why MSU is most likely rated ahead of us.

Yes, they all have these "bonuses".

[hawgfan4life]

IF the players were only ranked high because Bama offered them then why the hell do they keep beating everyone!

I'm typing this real slow for you...

Alabama does a great job recruiting elite talent that they evaluate as elite talent.  However, they offer a lot of players that are not ranked real high when they offer early.  As soon as the services hear AL offered, they take notice, and the kid generally rises pretty fast.  Most would have rose anyway because they deserve it, but occasionally, some rise because it is AL recruiting them and you see sudden rise in recruits based off this principal whether it is AL or Michigan and other top programs.  AL still misses on some of their recruits.  Not all of their elite recruits pan out to be elite college players.  Alabama signs more 5 star players than anyone and over a four year period, they have a roster with several filling the two deep.  Same with the high 4 star players.  They end up with a two deep full of 5 and high 4 star athletes.  The handful of recruits that end up not being as great as predicted are moved behind those that are elite and it doesn't impact the quality of their position.  When a team is not getting those type of athletes in those quantities, a miss with any of those recruits will result in a young player still needing development playing earlier than they would if they were at a school like AL.

Not every 5 and 4 star will be elite college athletes and not every 2 and 3 star will be average athletes after they develop.  Overall, the more 4 and 5 you get increases your chances to be elite because most will be good to great.  The more you have that will require development puts you in a bind when injuries, discipline, and missing on an athlete's ability occurs. 

[farmhawg]

I don't care about the rankings but we do need players that are being recruited by our competitors.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I don't care about the rankings but we do need players that are being recruited by our competitors.

This is pretty much where the rubber meets the road.  Forget the stars.  Look at the offer sheet.  That's easily the best predictor.

That said, though, stars are generally in line with the offer sheets, so it's just easier to talk in terms of stars.  Because if a kid is a 4 star, chances are he has the offer sheet to back it up...the offer sheet we're all coveting. 

[hawginbigd1]

I don't care about the rankings but we do need players that are being recruited by our competitors.

Nothing wrong with that statement, however it will be tough because most of them live where our competitors live. It isn't that simple either the early commits in many cases will not stack up offers, and will consequently not stack up stars either.

[hawgfan4life]

Let me add this which I am certain will bring a fresh bout of idiotic posts:

1.  Player evaluation is critical regardless of where someone ranks the players.  If our coaches evaluate good, over time, our roster will have the talent we need to compete.

2.  Elite level play requires elite level QB play.  Period.  Championship teams almost always have QBs that make plays.  Have to surround them with talent too, but QB is critical.

3.  Player development is just as critical as evaluation because it is the other half of that process.  If a kid has the potential, it has to be reached some how and that is through development.

4.  Retention is huge.  Getting them in school, keeping them in school, and maximizing the development that is invested into the player is where the huge results are reaped.  Championship teams are usually loaded with a lot of great upper classmen.

5.  Many like to joke about the Uncommon theme, but it is exactly what AR needs.  Recruit good players that can be developed over time, will stay in school and be eligible, and won't be a big distraction and locker room problem. BB seems to be doing a good job at this although there are always going to be kids that end up not being uncommon or they make incredibly dumb decisions that are not uncommon.

I love this class and Biggus said it best way back into the thread.  Some of the recruits might be 3*, but I am darned glad to have them.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Let me add this which I am certain will bring a fresh bout of idiotic posts:

1.  Player evaluation is critical regardless of where someone ranks the players.  If our coaches evaluate good, over time, our roster will have the talent we need to compete.

2.  Elite level play requires elite level QB play.  Period.  Championship teams almost always have QBs that make plays.  Have to surround them with talent too, but QB is critical.

3.  Player development is just as critical as evaluation because it is the other half of that process.  If a kid has the potential, it has to be reached some how and that is through development.

4.  Retention is huge.  Getting them in school, keeping them in school, and maximizing the development that is invested into the player is where the huge results are reaped.  Championship teams are usually loaded with a lot of great upper classmen.

5.  Many like to joke about the Uncommon theme, but it is exactly what AR needs.  Recruit good players that can be developed over time, will stay in school and be eligible, and won't be a big distraction and locker room problem. BB seems to be doing a good job at this although there are always going to be kids that end up not being uncommon or they make incredibly dumb decisions that are not uncommon.

I love this class and Biggus said it best way back into the thread.  Some of the recruits might be 3*, but I am darned glad to have them.

This shouldn't fetch idiotic posts.  You are correct.  My only caveat on the evaluation thing, is it's about timing too.  The "I trust Coach XYZ's evaluations" is often nothing more than deflection.  Evaluating and recruiting are not the same thing.  And there's really nobody criticizing BB's evals.  Criticism of BB and coaches before him have been about recruiting successfully.  Of course, it's freaking hard to recruit to UA.

If your goal is to say take 2 RB's in a class.  You probably "evaluate" dozens up front.  You then probably rank them in order, and then offer say the top 5 or 6...say the A list guys.  The first 2 of those to commit get the scholie.  Of course, I think much of our history has been that the vast majority of A guys don't ever commit.  Then, as the A listers say no, we move down the list and offer the next handful, and maybe 1 bites, but the others move elsewhere.  So you then go further down the list and make offers until you finally get a RB to commit.  So we've evaluated say 15 RB's, but we didn't sign the one's we REALLY wanted...we had to take guys with lower evaluations...such is often life for UA.  I know this is simplistic, and undoubtedly you already get it, but so many don't.

We still get a handful of blue chip caliber recruits every class, just not enough in number to make any real difference on the field.  That said, yes, the way BB apparently approaches recruiting and the roster (redshirt them, retain them, develop them, and coach them up) is exactly what has to be done for us to make a dent going forward.  We won't move up the food chain by out recruiting our competition. 

[ricepig]

Speaking of rankings, or one's that do them.......


https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/826925410852155396

[Hugo Bezdek]

I'm typing this real slow for you...

Alabama does a great job recruiting elite talent that they evaluate as elite talent.  However, they offer a lot of players that are not ranked real high when they offer early.  As soon as the services hear AL offered, they take notice, and the kid generally rises pretty fast.  Most would have rose anyway because they deserve it, but occasionally, some rise because it is AL recruiting them and you see sudden rise in recruits based off this principal whether it is AL or Michigan and other top programs.  AL still misses on some of their recruits.  Not all of their elite recruits pan out to be elite college players.  Alabama signs more 5 star players than anyone and over a four year period, they have a roster with several filling the two deep.  Same with the high 4 star players.  They end up with a two deep full of 5 and high 4 star athletes.  The handful of recruits that end up not being as great as predicted are moved behind those that are elite and it doesn't impact the quality of their position.  When a team is not getting those type of athletes in those quantities, a miss with any of those recruits will result in a young player still needing development playing earlier than they would if they were at a school like AL.

Not every 5 and 4 star will be elite college athletes and not every 2 and 3 star will be average athletes after they develop.  Overall, the more 4 and 5 you get increases your chances to be elite because most will be good to great.  The more you have that will require development puts you in a bind when injuries, discipline, and missing on an athlete's ability occurs.

Yep, and it's a full-proof system for the star-givers when it's Nick Saban you're talking about. The fallacy in the system is when stars are given out based on the hot new coach at Texas (Herman), or the burn-out at a big-time program who has perhaps lost his touch (Mack Brown/Phil Fulmer). It also fails when it doesn't recognize a truly talented evaluator who's not coaching a big-time program, or whose program hasn't peaked yet (Dabo Swinney until the last couple of years). Yes there's a strong correlation between recruiting rating and winning, but there are no silver bullets and it's not as simple as some would believe.

[gchamblee]

I don't care about the rankings but we do need players that are being recruited by our competitors.

a kids talent level doesn't change base don who is recruiting him. that's like saying the more people that look at a picture, the prettier it gets. a kid has the talent he has, and if other programs miss him and never evaluate him, the guy that does and takes him may get a steal, regardless of how many of his fans moan because his offer sheet sucks. you guys act like if bama and ohio state offered my kid arkansas would be stupid not to recruit him. trust me, they wouldn't.

i think florida does some lazy recruiting and lets other schools do the evaluating and then swoop in and offer the kids other schools are offering if they trust the evaluation skills of that schools coaching staff. i really dont care how many offers a kid has, if our coaching staff has evaluated them and feel they are what they are looking for, then offer them and hope to get them.

if a kid has the talent, but doesn't have the right personality or work ethic or has an attitude problem, im cool with our coaching staff passing on him regardless of whether bama passes on him or not. some of you however, think we should be getting bamas recruits otherwise we cant compete.

yes, class rankings matter but once you get below say 10th i don't think it matters as much as you think. 11th and 18th would probably comparable as 50th is probably comparable to 80th.

[Hogwild]

As soon as the services hear AL offered, they take notice, and the kid generally rises pretty fast.  Most would have rose anyway because they deserve it, but occasionally, some rise because it is AL recruiting them and you see sudden rise in recruits based off this principal whether it is AL or Michigan and other top programs.

Was listening  to Bobby Hebert's radio show on the way to pick up dinner last night, he had some very interesting things to say about that statement.  He started off by saying that type of statement isn't true, but he said it much more colorfully.

Hebert used his son and others recruitment to dispel that myth (his words not mine)

He referenced 3 players his son T-Bob, Ironhead Heyward's son, and a former center at Auburn(can't remember the name), said at the time he didn't know much about the recruiting rankings, but his son was a 2 star.  He took his son and Heyward to a Nike camp over the summer, where there were all of these recruiting services, as well as college coaches (he called them college scouts).  While at this camp he said it became clear that T-Bob and the former Auburn player were the two top centers in the region, Hebert said he was told by a recruiting service that he son was going to get 4 star.  Based on his performance at the Nike camp he also got offers from Georgia and LSU.  While Heyward got bump up in stars and signed later signed with Ohio State, due to his performance at the camp.   He went on to say that the reason he got the extra stars wasn't because of the offers, but went hand in hand, because of his performance.

Hebert said doaches and recruiting services can get a much better feel of a player's talent level in the camps than watching film from a HS game.  At the camps they know the opponents' talent level. So when a little known player gets a increase in stars the same week as he gets offers from a Bama, LSU, Michigan, its because the recruiting services are seeing the same thing that got  them the big time offers.

[bennyl08]

Depends on how you look at it. If you are looking just the players drafted and there HS rankings it looks good.

However, if you are looking at every player ranked as a 4 star or higher and their % drafted. Not so much

Think you got that one backwards. If you just look at the players drafted, you would think that a 3* is just as likely to be drafted as a 4*. Same for 2*/NR. However, when you look at every player ranked as an x* player, then you realize that the odds are vastly higher for higher stars than lower ones.

[Justagp]

Was listening  to Bobby Hebert's radio show on the way to pick up dinner last night, he had some very interesting things to say about that statement.  He started off by saying that type of statement isn't true, but he said it much more colorfully.

Hebert used his son and others recruitment to dispel that myth (his words not mine)

He referenced 3 players his son T-Bob, Ironhead Heyward's son, and a former center at Auburn(can't remember the name), said at the time he didn't know much about the recruiting rankings, but his son was a 2 star.  He took his son and Heyward to a Nike camp over the summer, where there were all of these recruiting services, as well as college coaches (he called them college scouts).  While at this camp he said it became clear that T-Bob and the former Auburn player were the two top centers in the region, Hebert said he was told by a recruiting service that he son was going to get 4 star.  Based on his performance at the Nike camp he also got offers from Georgia and LSU.  While Heyward got bump up in stars and signed later signed with Ohio State, due to his performance at the camp.   He went on to say that the reason he got the extra stars wasn't because of the offers, but went hand in hand, because of his performance.

Hebert said doaches and recruiting services can get a much better feel of a player's talent level in the camps than watching film from a HS game.  At the camps they know the opponents' talent level. So when a little known player gets a increase in stars the same week as he gets offers from a Bama, LSU, Michigan, its because the recruiting services are seeing the same thing that got  them the big time offers.

Thanks for this insight. It makes sense.

[hogsfan31]

I do not care where this recruiting class ranks! Who gives a flying Frank? Evaluate the signees! Ranking comparisons are noise.

Chase Hayden is a 3-star on 24/7. He's the son of former Vol/NFL RB Aaron Hayden. He was a highly successful high school back with excellent speed/quickness, has a great ceiling. Had he committed to one of the so-called name schools that chased him, Hayden would have been a 4-star.

Koilan Jackson is a 3-star too. He is the son of former Sooner/NFL TE Keith Jackson. He has tremendous upside potential. Why is he a 3-star? Early Arkansas commit.

Jordon Curtis from Jenks is a potential all-league cornerback. 3-star. Kamren Curl, 3-star. Korey Hernandez, 3-star.

Josh Paul from New Orleans, defensive player of the year on his level, 3-star.

De'Vion Warren, Jarrod Barnes, hardly evaluated by outsiders, but they are the same talent level as other receivers who have been successful at Arkansas. 3-star.

Maleek Barkley was chased late by a lot of high-majors. 3-star.

Maleek Williams is an exciting RB who had huge yards against Florida competition. 3-star.

Daulton Hyatt was a 66% passer, 25 TD/5 INT, as a senior. 3-star.

Dalton Wagner, Kirby Adcock, Shane Clenin - big frames, pro potential, 3-stars.

Kyrei Fisher is a good-sized LB who had offers from Michigan State and Colorado. 3-star.

This class has plenty of talent.

If Jackson and Williams had been committed anywhere else they'd be 4 stars.

[hoglady]

If Jackson and Williams had been committed anywhere else they'd be 4 stars.

I think if Jackson had played wide receiver more than his senior year he would have ranked higher.

[farmhawg]

a kids talent level doesn't change base don who is recruiting him. that's like saying the more people that look at a picture, the prettier it gets. a kid has the talent he has, and if other programs miss him and never evaluate him, the guy that does and takes him may get a steal, regardless of how many of his fans moan because his offer sheet sucks. you guys act like if bama and ohio state offered my kid arkansas would be stupid not to recruit him. trust me, they wouldn't.

i think florida does some lazy recruiting and lets other schools do the evaluating and then swoop in and offer the kids other schools are offering if they trust the evaluation skills of that schools coaching staff. i really dont care how many offers a kid has, if our coaching staff has evaluated them and feel they are what they are looking for, then offer them and hope to get them.

if a kid has the talent, but doesn't have the right personality or work ethic or has an attitude problem, im cool with our coaching staff passing on him regardless of whether bama passes on him or not. some of you however, think we should be getting bamas recruits otherwise we cant compete.

yes, class rankings matter but once you get below say 10th i don't think it matters as much as you think. 11th and 18th would probably comparable as 50th is probably comparable to 80th.

So I guess that explains the lack of speed on the team. We can find talent anywhere? But speed not so much. You just want to argue and not see the problems that are glaring. That's your call.

[gchamblee]

So I guess that explains the lack of speed on the team. We can find talent anywhere? But speed not so much. You just want to argue and not see the problems that are glaring. That's your call.

would you agree that speed seemed to be a priority in this class?

[bennyl08]

I do not care where this recruiting class ranks! Who gives a flying Frank? Evaluate the signees! Ranking comparisons are noise.

Chase Hayden is a 3-star on 24/7. He's the son of former Vol/NFL RB Aaron Hayden. He was a highly successful high school back with excellent speed/quickness, has a great ceiling. Had he committed to one of the so-called name schools that chased him, Hayden would have been a 4-star.

Koilan Jackson is a 3-star too. He is the son of former Sooner/NFL TE Keith Jackson. He has tremendous upside potential. Why is he a 3-star? Early Arkansas commit.

Jordon Curtis from Jenks is a potential all-league cornerback. 3-star. Kamren Curl, 3-star. Korey Hernandez, 3-star.

Josh Paul from New Orleans, defensive player of the year on his level, 3-star.

De'Vion Warren, Jarrod Barnes, hardly evaluated by outsiders, but they are the same talent level as other receivers who have been successful at Arkansas. 3-star.

Maleek Barkley was chased late by a lot of high-majors. 3-star.

Maleek Williams is an exciting RB who had huge yards against Florida competition. 3-star.

Daulton Hyatt was a 66% passer, 25 TD/5 INT, as a senior. 3-star.

Dalton Wagner, Kirby Adcock, Shane Clenin - big frames, pro potential, 3-stars.

Kyrei Fisher is a good-sized LB who had offers from Michigan State and Colorado. 3-star.

This class has plenty of talent.

Piggies alludes to an important point. 5* players on average are going to be the best, followed by 4*'s and so on. However, nothing is perfect. As a coach, it is important to find which high talent players aren't the one's you want in your locker room. Which undervalued recruits are better than others give them credit for.

A lot of recruit evaluating is finding guys who are above the odds.

For example, I am just as excited about Curtis as I am any of our more highly rated DB's. Why? His tape says it all. He looks a lot like an Adoree Jackson. Maleek Williams? Go watch his highlights. He has at worst low 4.5 speed (think Collins) but with immense power and ability to break tackles. Physical talent wise, I think when he first steps on campus, he'll be right there with the rest of our rb's like RW3 and Whaley. Now, obviously, he'll have to pick up the playbook, learn to pass block, keep a grip on the ball, etc... However, his talent is right up there with any of the higher rated backs. IMO.

[LZH]

Tis the most credible thing a recruiting service can do.  Makes complete sense that this happens.  For good reason.

If these recruiting sites are not evaluating talent themselves and just letting rankings depend on who offers scholarships, then it sounds like a racket and a bunch of bull and whoever pays for their services is a [CENSORED] moron.

[MemphisBossHog]

I do not care where this recruiting class ranks! Who gives a flying Frank? Evaluate the signees! Ranking comparisons are noise.

Chase Hayden is a 3-star on 24/7. He's the son of former Vol/NFL RB Aaron Hayden. He was a highly successful high school back with excellent speed/quickness, has a great ceiling. Had he committed to one of the so-called name schools that chased him, Hayden would have been a 4-star.

Koilan Jackson is a 3-star too. He is the son of former Sooner/NFL TE Keith Jackson. He has tremendous upside potential. Why is he a 3-star? Early Arkansas commit.

Jordon Curtis from Jenks is a potential all-league cornerback. 3-star. Kamren Curl, 3-star. Korey Hernandez, 3-star.

Josh Paul from New Orleans, defensive player of the year on his level, 3-star.

De'Vion Warren, Jarrod Barnes, hardly evaluated by outsiders, but they are the same talent level as other receivers who have been successful at Arkansas. 3-star.

Maleek Barkley was chased late by a lot of high-majors. 3-star.

Maleek Williams is an exciting RB who had huge yards against Florida competition. 3-star.

Daulton Hyatt was a 66% passer, 25 TD/5 INT, as a senior. 3-star.

Dalton Wagner, Kirby Adcock, Shane Clenin - big frames, pro potential, 3-stars.

Kyrei Fisher is a good-sized LB who had offers from Michigan State and Colorado. 3-star.

This class has plenty of talent.

Biggus, I really hope you are right.  Im sure you are right when you say the class has a lot of talent.  My only point is that its all relative.  We might have gotten a lot of talent in this class but the simple fact is that not just some but MOST of the other SEC teams simply got MORE talent. 

Im watching the Hog basketball game on the SEC Network and the crawl across the bottom of the screen, which is ESPN, doesnt even have us in the top 25 in the nation as far as class rankings go. 

I want you to be right Biggus.  I want this class to be special and provide us with really good players for years to come but I am afraid that many of us are on here doing our best to be happy with the class we signed and trying to rationalize that other classes have had some 3 stars that went on to be studs and the always repeated story about JJWatt being a 2 star and ending up maybe the best defensive player in the NFL.  These are rationalizations that teams with mediocre classes make to ease the sting of the reality that about the best we can do is 9th out of 14 teams in the SEC.

I want BB to succeed but its like one of the sports talk radio hosts here in Memphis said today about Arkansas. He said that Bret Bielema is a jewel and most people love him.  The Memphis media loves him, but he is living tough life in the SEC bringing in tons of 3 stars in the same division as Bama, Auburn, Tex A&M and LSU.  Maybe he can "coach em up."  We can always hope and support him, but its just like spotting a team a 2 or 3 touchdown lead and then trying to come back.  We start out behind these teams right off the bat due to difference in talent.  It makes it really hard to compete. 

Heck even Miss State is ahead of us.  I mean we can out recruit Vandy and Ole Miss (cause NCAA cloud is hurting them), Missouri, maybe Kentucky.  Not sure who else, but we are right there where we usually are under BB.  Around 10th in the conference and close to 30 in the nation.   Honestly, is that going to be good enough??  I truly hope so.

[PORKULATOR]

I don't like that every team, except Toledo, that has beaten us in the last few years, has out recruited us yetc again.
I get it, we're looking for a certain type of kid....
But that line needs to pay off this year. This year.
I'm disheveled.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Everything matters, I only laugh when someone says something doesn't matter.

Now THAT'S deep!

[bennyl08]

Biggus, I really hope you are right.  Im sure you are right when you say the class has a lot of talent.  My only point is that its all relative.  We might have gotten a lot of talent in this class but the simple fact is that not just some but MOST of the other SEC teams simply got MORE talent. 

Im watching the Hog basketball game on the SEC Network and the crawl across the bottom of the screen, which is ESPN, doesnt even have us in the top 25 in the nation as far as class rankings go. 

I want you to be right Biggus.  I want this class to be special and provide us with really good players for years to come but I am afraid that many of us are on here doing our best to be happy with the class we signed and trying to rationalize that other classes have had some 3 stars that went on to be studs and the always repeated story about JJWatt being a 2 star and ending up maybe the best defensive player in the NFL.  These are rationalizations that teams with mediocre classes make to ease the sting of the reality that about the best we can do is 9th out of 14 teams in the SEC.

I want BB to succeed but its like one of the sports talk radio hosts here in Memphis said today about Arkansas. He said that Bret Bielema is a jewel and most people love him.  The Memphis media loves him, but he is living tough life in the SEC bringing in tons of 3 stars in the same division as Bama, Auburn, Tex A&M and LSU.  Maybe he can "coach em up."  We can always hope and support him, but its just like spotting a team a 2 or 3 touchdown lead and then trying to come back.  We start out behind these teams right off the bat due to difference in talent.  It makes it really hard to compete. 

Heck even Miss State is ahead of us.  I mean we can out recruit Vandy and Ole Miss (cause NCAA cloud is hurting them), Missouri, maybe Kentucky.  Not sure who else, but we are right there where we usually are under BB.  Around 10th in the conference and close to 30 in the nation.   Honestly, is that going to be good enough??  I truly hope so.

A few thoughts on rankings. First, look at the absolute differences b/w the classes. Some teams may technically be ahead of us, but save for a few, there isn't a huge gap.

As for talent, I'd put the top half of our class against the top half of anybody else. Even vs Bama's top half, ours might lose the game, but it would be competitive.

The difference b/w our talent and the majority of the rest of the SEC's isn't very large. IMO, the biggest issue we have with a class like this is depth. The level of talent we have here is IMO as good as anybody else. The question lies with what happens after them? Well, there are a few options. First, there are other classes to rely on as well. Lets assume that we have 4 classes in a row just like this one. 1 class is enough to give you starters on both sides. 2 classes can give you a two deep, and so on. With half the class IMO being high talent, that would then require 2 classes to have high talent throughout the starting, and 4 classes for a high talent two deep. Problem there is that it requires all of the high talent players to actually be hits and to remain. Some of those "low talent" players are going to out perform the "better" ones. Not all of the "high talent" players will actually pan out at the college level.

And that is where it all happens for teams. How many high talent guys can you get into starting positions and filling out your two deep vs how many average players will you rely on. I shouldn't say "low talent" because I don't see anybody in this class like that. Especially in the SEC, the only times you have low talent players is with walk-ons and even then, they are often in the mid-range and sometimes even better. This is the same thing most other teams struggle with.

[hawginbigd1]

Here is the crap we get to compete with, Georgia signs 14 top 300 players.........all from the damn state of Georgia, 16 others they didn't sign, SMH. Hell lets just have 5 each year from Arkansas.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

Here is the crap we get to compete with, Georgia signs 14 top 300 players.........all from the damn state of Georgia, 16 others they didn't sign, SMH. Hell lets just have 5 each year from Arkansas.

Location. Location. Location.

[Pork Twain]

I understand the difference, the norm now mostly involves Saban, Bowden, Meyer etc. we will not recruit with those guys or 10-12 other programs where the most highly rated recruits live and play. Those coaches have more to do with who is winning the championships, than the star ranking system.

Hard to say that with any level of certainty, because none of those coaches have won it all without very good recruiting class to build on.  The exception I was referring to are the teams that are at the top, without top classes, vs the normal group, that is stacked with top classes.

[Hogwild]

If Jackson and Williams had been committed anywhere else they'd be 4 stars.

Which schools that extended them an offer would have got them a 4th star?

Jackson offer list was Arkansas, Army, UL-Monroe, Illinois, and Memphis.  I don't think that there is any question that Arkansas is the most prestigious (football wise) program on that list. 

[tophawg19]

fit is more important than stars . for years Texas signed highly rated classes but took on a lot of odd players that never fit a system so they never saw the benefit . We need specific players to fit CBB's offense even if they don't have the stars . Also a lot of these kids aren't seen by the guru's . Many 3 sport kids and poor kids never make the camps . especially kids from south and east Arkansas . Sometimes our staff is going to see a star where the rest see a 3 star. kind of like with Barnes and Warren , they see 3 stars small kids , we see future Joe Adams types . One thing i do find curious is our RB selection . We now have two speed backs in Hammonds and Chase and 4 power backs that have good speed . makes you curious as to the direction of the offense . but both LSU and Bama have done similar things in the past with situational backs

[Biggus Piggus]

Heck even Miss State is ahead of us.  I mean we can out recruit Vandy and Ole Miss (cause NCAA cloud is hurting them), Missouri, maybe Kentucky.  Not sure who else, but we are right there where we usually are under BB.  Around 10th in the conference and close to 30 in the nation.   Honestly, is that going to be good enough??  I truly hope so.

You can't help yourself. The recruiting gooroos put out their sequential rankings, and you can't help but fixate on what appears to be a pecking order. At the very top of these rankings, you have a handful of teams loaded with 5-stars. Below the top layer, the standard deviation widens dramatically on these + the difference between classes blurs. "Even Miss State is ahead of us" - you don't know that. You think you do, but you don't.

Recruiting ratings and rankings are presented in a form that pretends precision, but the meaning of sequential ranking is very marginal. You can find teams perennially in the 30s to 50s that win and go to bowls every year. You can find teams that stay in the top 30 but can't sustain anything.

Obvious regional biases in player ratings explain those results. Recruitniks pay the vast majority of their attention to certain states and teams, where their customers are.

And the simple case of B.J. Thompson getting a last-minute, 4-star rating from 24/7's top guy tells you what is completely [CENSORED] up about the system. One guy watching some online video lowered his standards, solely on the distant possibility that Florida State might give Thompson a committable offer (which didn't happen).

Arkansas's task - as it has been for the whole time it has been in the SEC:

* Attain consistency in player recruiting and development.
* Build depth at all positions.
* Avoid multiple seasons of recruiting failure at any position.
* Sustain winning and prepare to raise the bar.

Arkansas has never succeeded at doing these four things, in its entire SEC history. Our task? Get there. First do that. Then, much later, worry about whether the Razorbacks need to sign more 4- and 5-stars to get to the next level.

[colbs]

Which schools that extended them an offer would have got them a 4th star?

Jackson offer list was Arkansas, Army, UL-Monroe, Illinois, and Memphis.  I don't think that there is any question that Arkansas is the most prestigious (football wise) program on that list. 

If Jackson would have committed later he would have gotten othe P5 offers.  It's funny because if Norwood or BJ Thompson would have been offered and committed to the Hogs prior to December they wouldn't have gotten the late offers they got.  So people complain that we didn't offer but others did.  Then you have instate guys like Jackson who committed early and the same people knock because lack of offers.  Also, ESPN ranks Jackson a 4*.

[Biggus Piggus]

Arkansas liked Porter better than Thompson. That's why they offered him when he got his grades in order. Thompson got a 4* rating from some distant goob, all on hearsay about who might be recruiting him. I hope Thompson has a great time at Baylor, not concerned about him - but the system that ignores Arkansas commits after they outperform as seniors + throws a high rating at a player not committed to Arkansas largely because of which school was rumored to be offering.