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Texas recruiting

Started by Caribhog, June 26, 2017, 06:47:02 am

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Arkansas Fan

Quote from: hogsanity on June 26, 2017, 11:21:38 am
TCU. I mean the odds of blocking/having tcu miss a chip shot at the end were pretty slim.

Every team has games they should've lost or won. Every team.

Arkansas Fan

Quote from: hogsanity on June 26, 2017, 12:24:25 pm
no it won't. The next time Ar HS football produces a abnormally large crop of legit sec players, and the Hogs sign most of them, is what will bring the next season or 2 of 10 win type teams.

Of course. I didn't include getting the best players from Arkansas because that's obvious. I'm saying the best Arkansas players to go with talent from Florida and Louisiana, if what will help us be a better program.

 

hogsanity

Quote from: Arkansas Fan on June 26, 2017, 12:32:34 pm
Of course. I didn't include getting the best players from Arkansas because that's obvious. I'm saying the best Arkansas players to go with talent from Florida and Louisiana, if what will help us be a better program.

depends, if the state goes 2 or 3 years in a row producing only 2-4 legit sec players, or only produces those players at certain positions, they wont be able to pull enough talent from other states to compete. Having a few very talented players has never really been the problem, the problem has always been depth. While the Bama's and the LSu's have 3/4 stars to replace their 4/5 stars if someone gets hurt, or needs a blow, the hogs are replacing 3/4 stars with 2 stars.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hogsanity on June 26, 2017, 12:54:19 pm
depends, if the state goes 2 or 3 years in a row producing only 2-4 legit sec players, or only produces those players at certain positions, they wont be able to pull enough talent from other states to compete. Having a few very talented players has never really been the problem, the problem has always been depth. While the Bama's and the LSu's have 3/4 stars to replace their 4/5 stars if someone gets hurt, or needs a blow, the hogs are replacing 3/4 stars with 2 stars.

We've got better talent overall right now but our 4 stars are concentrated for the most part on the OL, at the TE's, RB's, we have 3 on the D-Line and just this year we have two that are freshmen in the Secondary. But back-up depth that are 4 stars? You are right, the vast majority at Arkansas are 3 stars, not many 2 stars on the team.
Go Hogs Go!

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 11:05:51 am
Of course, Alex Collins may be the biggest recruiting coup that I can remember.  Kirkland, too.  To go in and get two big-time Florida players (with the big time Florida offers), was unheard of at the time.

Then we beat out Ole Miss, Ohio St and many others for Skipper.

We had a great in-state class that year, too.
Ironic thing about that is we almost signed Dave Williams (our new grad transfer RB) instead of Collins. Guess We've come full circle
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

rljjr


J-Five

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 10:57:36 am
Would you argue there was a game we won we should have lost?

Maybe the TCU game...
"If the person you're criticizing is doing it better than you are, close your mouth"

jackflash

I think this recruiting will  prove why we should be recruiting Texas

MuskogeeHogFan

July 02, 2017, 12:31:51 pm #58 Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:42:53 pm by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: jackflash on July 02, 2017, 11:39:55 am
I think this recruiting will  prove why we should be recruiting Texas

We have been recruiting Texas but we still have to contend with bigger name (or in-state) schools swooping in to get who they want as well. For 2017, here is an example of signees from Texas. I'm sure more big name schools have dipped in there to sign recruits as well, but this is just a few of who we have to recruit against.

Alabama-3
Auburn-1
Florida-1
Georgia-0
LSU-5
Missouri-5
Ole Miss-2
S. Carolina-0
Tennessee-1
Texas A&M-20
Vanderbilt-2
Oklahoma-9
Texas-13
Baylor-20
Okla State-9
TCU-12
Texas Tech-11
Stanford-2
S. California-1
UCLA-1
Houston-15

Total-133 players

Arkansas-2
Go Hogs Go!

hawgfan4life

I love how people bring up what Broyles did to be successful back in the 60s and how it was dependent on successful TX recruiting.  Some other things that Broyles did was to sign as many players as he wanted because they didn't have the class restrictions that exist today.  Schools used to swoop in and take the elite athletes to hidden locations until signing day so that nobody could come in and steal a signature.  Broyles also was recruiting against SEC and SWC teams for White players only.  Black athletes didn't play for SWC teams or most other teams in those days.  The demographics of the Southeast did not impact Arkansas negatively as hard as they do now when Broyles built Arkansas into a powerhouse.  Somehow, trying to hold onto recruiting strategies from the 60s just don't add up anymore, but I love how it is hammered by posters every year on these sites.

Riddle me this:  If Texas athletes are so much better than those from other states and there are so many of them, why hasn't Texas and A$M been in the NC hunt every year for the past 30 years since they have traditionally had their pick of the top in-state athletes most years over that time period? 

1.  Players are willing to go to farther locations more readily today than they were in the past because their parents can watch most or all of their games on TV and they can stay in touch through a variety of sources electronically at no additional cost than if they stay home.  Broyle's was lucky to get a few games on TV each year.

2.  It is easier to fly to several regional areas in a variety of states and locations than it is to do a recruiting road trip like coaches used to do in past decades.  Coaches can fly to Miami on an early flight, rent a vehicle, hit several top recruits, and be home for supper in a day.  Why would they focus only on East Texas when they can cover the entire Southeast U.S with about the same effort as they can cover East Texas recruiting like they did when Broyles was successful?

3.  Texas provides a lot of great football players and Arkansas definitely should shake the bushes in East Texas really hard each year.  However, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Georgia also provide a wealth of great players.  Getting one or two from half of those states each year provides a solid group of athletes.  Oklahoma, Mississippi, Missouri, and Tennessee provide opportunities for a player or two each year as well.  Then you throw in the occasional player from far off states each year and the JC players and our classes get filled with solid players.

The secret to AR's success is getting "MORE" elite players from anywhere they can get them.  The secret to AR's success to BCS level will be getting MORE elite players and having a QB that is a play-making winner.  When AR's QB is great, AR is competitive.  When AR's QB is average, we struggle.  It matters not where any of those players resided prior to arriving at college.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 02, 2017, 12:31:51 pm
We have been recruiting Texas but we still have to contend with bigger name (or in-state) schools swooping in to get who they want as well. For 2017, here is an example of signees from Texas. I'm sure more big name schools have dipped in there to sign recruits as well, but this is just a few of who we have to recruit against.

Alabama-3
Auburn-1
Florida-1
Georgia-0
LSU-5
Missouri-5
Ole Miss-2
S. Carolina-0
Tennessee-1
Texas A&M-20
Vanderbilt-2
Oklahoma-9
Texas-13
Baylor-20
Okla State-9
TCU-12
Texas Tech-11
Stanford-2
S. California-1
UCLA-1
Houston-15

Total-133 players

Arkansas-2

We have a big alum presence and fanbase in tejas. We are closer to it. We have better facilities and are getting even better. There is no way Mizzou should out recruit us there. That's assuming we both put the same emphasis on it.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

ricepig

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 05, 2017, 01:41:21 pm
We have a big alum presence and fanbase in tejas. We are closer to it. We have better facilities and are getting even better. There is no way Mizzou should out recruit us there. That's assuming we both put the same emphasis on it.

Depends on who we/they are offering, doesn't it? They also still have some ties from their Big 12 days, I would imagine.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: ricepig on July 05, 2017, 01:43:58 pm
Depends on who we/they are offering, doesn't it? They also still have some ties from their Big 12 days, I would imagine.

Thus my words the "same emphasis". CBB might not put as much emphasis on it as Mizzou but I don't know that. Also our ties go back MUCH longer. Whole families there are born and raised Hog fans. And to top it off we now have a former Hog owning one of the top rated valuable pro organizations in all of sports based there.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

ricepig

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 05, 2017, 01:47:35 pm
Thus my words the "same emphasis". CBB might not put as much emphasis on it as Mizzou but I don't know that. Also our ties go back MUCH longer. Whole families there are born and raised Hog fans. And to top it off we now have a former Hog owning one of the top rated valuable pro organizations in all of sports based there.

Connections to the current high school coaches is the most important connection.

Inhogswetrust

July 05, 2017, 02:05:50 pm #64 Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:59:41 pm by Inhogswetrust
Quote from: ricepig on July 05, 2017, 02:04:14 pm
Connections to the current high school coaches is the most important connection.

I'm not sure how many now but at one time Arkansas as a state and program had a whole lot of connected high school coaches down there. Several were from Arkansas and had moved down there from it. A LOT of people have over the years.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

hawgon

About to what you would expect from Yankees who don't understand the connections.  Basically everyone in East Texas who isn't originally from Arkansas can say that their grandparents were. 

hawgfan4life

We are being out-recruited by Missouri because they signed 5 and we signed 2. 

That is ignorant logic.  How do we know for certain we couldn't have gotten 3 more better players than them in TX, but signed even better players than the 3 we could have signed, but  from other states?  If that is the case, we not only out-recruited Missouri in TX, but magnified the beating by out-recruiting our possible TX recruits with a more regional and national approach.  FYI, Missouri also out-recruited Alabama in TX as well.

goodguytex

There is no reason we shouldn't be able to hit Texas and Louisiana extra hard in recruiting. There's plenty of Razorback exposure in both states. Maybe we need some football camps in both states to help the situation. There's plenty of talent we can get.

Some of the problem in Texas HAS has been the shift to the fast paced offenses. HS football in louisiana is more mixed. In Arkansas you tend to see more of the kind we run. But the talent has been so lacking. Either that, or kids just aren't getting good enough grades to get into a college like Arkansas. Hopefully we see some things changing for the better.

nwahogfan1

Quote from: Caribhog on June 26, 2017, 06:47:02 am
We want to beat Alabama, LSU...we have to win Texas recruiting. It's been the key to great AR football success since Broyles was successful.  We can't win long term getting castoff players from AL, GA, LA. We have got to figure out a way to get the few great players from TX every year. All the great AR teams were built on that concept: Montgomery, Dicus, Johnson, Brabham, et al..  We get our share of great players from TX, we start beating AL, LSU, AUB, GA
E
I agree. We need to sign 7 to 10 studs out of Texas a year.  If  we could do this we could get the 6+ best out of Arkansas, 4+ from LA. and these rest from where ever.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 05, 2017, 01:41:21 pm
We have a big alum presence and fanbase in tejas. We are closer to it. We have better facilities and are getting even better. There is no way Mizzou should out recruit us there. That's assuming we both put the same emphasis on it.

I agree that we need to take advantage of the geographical relevance of Arkansas to Texas and recruit a bit harder down there.

From 2002-2006 we recruited 4-4 stars and 21-3 stars for a total of 25 out of Texas. 5 each year on average.

From 2007-2011 it was 3-4 stars and 18-3 stars for a total of 21. 4.2 each year.

From 2012-2016 it was 3-4 stars and 16-3 stars for a total of 19. 3.8 each year.

In 2017 we signed 1-4 star and 1-3 star out of Texas.
Go Hogs Go!

ricepig

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 06, 2017, 07:13:50 am
I agree that we need to take advantage of the geographical relevance of Arkansas to Texas and recruit a bit harder down there.

From 2002-2006 we recruited 4-4 stars and 21-3 stars for a total of 25 out of Texas. 5 each year on average.

From 2007-2011 it was 3-4 stars and 18-3 stars for a total of 21. 4.2 each year.

From 2012-2016 it was 3-4 stars and 16-3 stars for a total of 19. 3.8 each year.

In 2017 we signed 1-4 star and 1-3 star out of Texas.

And we currently have 3 committed, with another expected to commit before the month is out. Which, if the class is only 16ish, 25%.

Vantage 8 dude

While the numbers may be there for having a great pool of high level talent in Texas, as in Florida and Louisiana, in the end I honestly could really care less just as long as we pull in kids that can play. Whether that be in Texas, Florida, Louisiana, New York or wherever I honestly don't care. Just get the talent in that can play at the highest level and let the staff do their thing.

ricepig

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on July 06, 2017, 07:30:13 am
While the numbers may be there for having a great pool of high level talent in Texas, as in Florida and Louisiana, in the end I honestly could really care less just as long as we pull in kids that can play. Whether that be in Texas, Florida, Louisiana, New York or wherever I honestly don't care. Just get the talent in that can play at the highest level and let the staff do their thing.

Yep, it doesn't matter where they are from.

hawgfan4life

We need studs!  Period!  Doesn't matter where they originated.  Texas has a lot of talent, but EVERY major program is recruiting their studs.  I remember when we were signing several TX players every year with previous coaches.  I also remember most of them never panning out and only being here a year or two.

 

Deep Shoat

Nobody is saying we should recruit Texas to the exclusion of other places.  But Texas is important to Arkansas hopes of being more than mid-tier because of the combination of proximity, fan base, and sheer number of recruits.
All Gas, No Brakes!

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Deep Shoat on July 06, 2017, 11:52:22 am
Nobody is saying we should recruit Texas to the exclusion of other places.  But Texas is important to Arkansas hopes of being more than mid-tier because of the combination of proximity, fan base, and sheer number of recruits.
Again, not saying that either. Clearly I'm saying I don't really care where a kid is from. If he's a highly rated and skilled player who can compete in the SEC I don't care if the guy is from Croatia.

PonderinHog

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on July 06, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Again, not saying that either. Clearly I'm saying I don't really care where a kid is from. If he's a highly rated and skilled player who can compete in the SEC I don't care if the guy is from Croatia.
Samoa makes more sense!

Vantage 8 dude


ricepig

Quote from: PonderinHog on July 06, 2017, 12:18:01 pm
Samoa makes more sense!

Basketball players are from Croatia....

Wildhog

Quote from: ricepig on July 06, 2017, 01:14:46 pm
Basketball players are from Croatia....

My non-extradition country of choice.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on July 06, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Again, not saying that either. Clearly I'm saying I don't really care where a kid is from. If he's a highly rated and skilled player who can compete in the SEC I don't care if the guy is from Croatia.
There is a fitting corollary that should get more use on here.  If the shoe fits, wear it. 

It's opposite is also true.  If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. 

If you aren't saying that, then I wasn't talking to you.
All Gas, No Brakes!

Mike_e

Quote from: Wildhog on July 06, 2017, 01:17:57 pm
My non-extradition country of choice.

It's good to think ahead!

Now, what are your views on Lawyers, Guns and Money?
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

elviscat

Guys, it's about building relationship with the high school coaches and working them all the time. That's how we get the Texas athletes to Arkansas, or we use the Ole Piss model $$$.

hawgfan4life

Texas is important, but so is LA, OK, MO, AL, GA, FL, MS, TN, JC players, and the random players we can get from states with no SEC or proximity connections.  Most important is getting quality players that can be developed and are willing to be developed long term.  We can sign some studs from Texas every year, but there are half a dozen other SEC teams signing equal or better studs for each one we sign and a few more for each of our developmental players.  Finding quality players that will buy into our program and commit for the long haul is far more important than Texas. 

Hogwild

Quote from: hawgfan4life on July 05, 2017, 10:24:39 pm
We are being out-recruited by Missouri because they signed 5 and we signed 2. 

That is ignorant logic.  How do we know for certain we couldn't have gotten 3 more better players than them in TX, but signed even better players than the 3 we could have signed, but  from other states?  If that is the case, we not only out-recruited Missouri in TX, but magnified the beating by out-recruiting our possible TX recruits with a more regional and national approach.  FYI, Missouri also out-recruited Alabama in TX as well.

Arkansas two Texas recruits ranked #22 & #82 in the state of Texas
Missouri top two Texas recruits ranked #78 & #96 in the state of Texas, the other 3 weren't in the top 150

DeltaBoy

We got to recruit Texas and Louisiana better
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

SEdrhawg

Quote from: Caribhog on June 26, 2017, 06:47:02 am
We want to beat Alabama, LSU...we have to win Texas recruiting. It's been the key to great AR football success since Broyles was successful.  We can't win long term getting castoff players from AL, GA, LA. We have got to figure out a way to get the few great players from TX every year. All the great AR teams were built on that concept: Montgomery, Dicus, Johnson, Brabham, et al..  We get our share of great players from TX, we start beating AL, LSU, AUB, GA

If only we had a forum to discuss these topics.  A forum dedicated only to discussion about recruiting and nothing else.  Then, and only then could we win the Texas recruiting battles....

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 06, 2017, 07:13:50 am
I agree that we need to take advantage of the geographical relevance of Arkansas to Texas and recruit a bit harder down there.

From 2002-2006 we recruited 4-4 stars and 21-3 stars for a total of 25 out of Texas. 5 each year on average.

From 2007-2011 it was 3-4 stars and 18-3 stars for a total of 21. 4.2 each year.

From 2012-2016 it was 3-4 stars and 16-3 stars for a total of 19. 3.8 each year.

In 2017 we signed 1-4 star and 1-3 star out of Texas.

Trends can sometimes be misleading BUT other times they tell a big true story. The question to ponder is why that trend is happening. There may be an understandable explanation or not.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Earth Hog Fan

July 08, 2017, 09:31:58 am #88 Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:05:07 am by Earth Hog Fan
Quote from: King Kong on June 26, 2017, 10:13:20 am
Petrino didn't

Yes you are so right, but Coach Petrino was and still is a great game manager and an extraordinary coach.  He is likely one of the top 10 coaches in football today.
I had never heard of Musselman. But he's a teacher, demands discipline and builds from the defensive end first. I want our football coach to be just like him."

Hawghiggs

 It's a mixed bag of reasons why Arkansas isn't recruiting Texas well.

1st, Schedule. We only play in Texas once a year. If we had multiple games in different regions of the state. We would be more attractive to Texas recruits.

2nd, Success. We simply aren't very successful. We haven't as a program sustained successful seasons.  Recruits want to play for something.

3rd, Focus. We haven't just focused on Texas. We really do try and recruit everywhere. If we only focused on Texas then the numbers would show it.