The Biggest Problem With Our FB Program

[snoot hoggy hog]

Easy hawgbawb, you're arguing with the same people that got in their feelings when Ronnie Brewer donated money to U of A's African American Studies Department.

[ShadowHawg]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

Proximity is the biggest factor in recruiting. Arkansas isn't near where the talent lives.

No more complicated than that snowflake.

[hawgbawb]

We lost by a combined 47 points against two teams we out recruited (TCU & USCe), that isn't our biggest problem.

2014  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2015 https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2016 https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2017  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

South Carolina out-recruited us three out of 4 years.  Tennessee out-recruited us all four. If you add up the 4 years and average them, you get this:

Arkansas avg 25
USCe Avg 21
Tenner avg 10.5

[rude1]

OP I get your post but to get on here and proclaim that Fayetteville is anything other than the perfect utopia for all is going to draw nothing but ire around here. For the naysayers, just do a quick search on the african american population of the college towns of the programs we are competing against, you should notice a very wide disparity in the population, for instance Tuscaloosa 43%, Fayetteville 6%. He isn't making this up, it is a real issue that has to be overcome when trying appeal to black athletes.

[hawgbawb]

Proximity is the biggest factor in recruiting. Arkansas isn't near where the talent lives.

No more complicated than that snowflake.

I agree, snowflake.

I also think there are things that might improve the situation.

[Calvin Swine]

Have you ever been to the plains at Auburn?  Fayetteville/NWA is a sprawling metropolis by comparison with far more to offer. 

This argument pops up from time to time.  I guess I don't understand what the heck people claim is needed to attract an African American athlete.  Everything that comes to mind is stereotypical, inflammatory, and too offensive for me to even want to write in jest. 

A simple truth is that many top athletes want what is best for them.  Typically in monetary form.  I don't want to be a win at all cost program but there's programs in the league that have made cheating an art form.  If you were going for a job interview between two companies and one offered you significant perks or gains to come work for them, would it be a difficult decision what to do?

There won't ever be a level playing field until the Fed's crush cheating in "amateur" sports.  Until then get used to fighting an uphill battle. 

[tophawg19]

I'm not saying the coaching staff is blameless. We've been through lots of coaches. Only Petrino had the level of success we aspire to, and we don't know if it was sustainable.

The biggest difference in the Saban's and the rest is Attention to the smallest detail and hiring people to see to them. Look at CBB , over weight , out of shape and goes around in flip flops . One is a beer drinking Good ole boy who would be a fun guy at a party. The other is a force driven , detail freak who is never content or satisfied . Bobby P was the same way but doesn't hire the same level of assistants . Both coaches are hard to work for . CBB on the other hand will hang on to a bad assistant no matter what and will play favorites even when they aren't the best ones . he has too much loyalty to bad coaches .

[LR_Matt]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

You also just described UGA and Alabama, FYI. Actually, most of the SEC.

[Inhogswetrust]

My apologies. It seemed like you were trying to make this discussion about me.

Not you personally. Your liberalism and not considering the ALL schools in the SEC have similar fans yet you didn't take that into consideration. You simply singled out a very small minority of Hog fans.

[Hogwild]

2014  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2015 https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2016 https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2017  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

South Carolina out-recruited us three out of 4 years.  Tennessee out-recruited us all four. If you add up the 4 years and average them, you get this:

Arkansas avg 25
USCe Avg 21
Tenner avg 10.5

We didn't play Tennessee, we lost to TCU.  Bama is a given.  But Mizzouri, Va Tech, TCU, and South Carolina  have not had distinct recruiting advantage over us. The biggest problem with our program is not the players.

[Bonehog]

By that theory we should be loaded with white talent, right?  I'm not sure talent looks at demographics of the city when making their decisions where to play or if they do it doesn't carry a lot of weight. Just my 2 pennies, I could be wrong.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

But everybody's white or latino. The AA population is very small.  Where does an African American student go to have a good time? Tulsa?

What activities do African-American students do for fun?

[Inhogswetrust]

Nolan Richardson stated the problem, but the good ole boys wouldn't listen.

Lanny Van Eman, Eddie, Nolan, Stan, John and now Mike ALL recruited black players successfully. IF it was that big of a problem then none of them could have done so.

[jkstock04]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

Good thing Alabama is a progressive and liberal state that doesn't do these things or else they wouldn't be good in football.

[jkstock04]

Everyone keep in mind the OP 100% believes in man made global warming.

[Inhogswetrust]

I'm not saying the coaching staff is blameless. We've been through lots of coaches. Only Petrino had the level of success we aspire to, and we don't know if it was sustainable.

Last time I checked Petrino had black players. We've had black players going back all the way to integration......................

[Nouston Hutt]

5 years ago Bobby P didn't have a problem with recruiting, the U of A or Fayetteville. Try again. Its the coach. Houston Nutt even got us to the SEC championship game.

[Inhogswetrust]

2014  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2015 https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2016 https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

2017  https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

South Carolina out-recruited us three out of 4 years.  Tennessee out-recruited us all four. If you add up the 4 years and average them, you get this:

Arkansas avg 25
USCe Avg 21
Tenner avg 10.5

We have been successful against SC and have won games against Tenner as well. You just have't learned that recruiting isn't the only thing. It's absolutely important BUT so is coaching.

[hawgbawb]

What activities do African-American students do for fun?

Ask them. I'm an old white guy.

Is there a hip hop club on Dickson Street?

Does Fayetteville have a program to encourage and assist minority businesses?

At the Fayetteville Farmer's market yesterday, I saw one African American.

I'm not trying to say this is the entire problem, but it is a factor. An even bigger factor is that we've lost our tradition of competing for conference championships.

[ShadowHawg]

I agree, snowflake.

I also think there are things that might improve the situation.

Serious flaw in your assertion is that the program has a very diverse make up right now.

Are you really trying to claim that only 4 and 5 star players care about southern heritage? We would get bigger and stronger kids?

We aren't getting the white kids either. Explain that using your "theory".

[porkrindjimmy]

Yeah, because Alabama has no fans with rebel flag avatars or anything.

I drove I-20 Friday from Atlanta to Tuscaloosa and I saw at least a thousand Confederate flags whipping in the wind. In Columbia SC on Tuesday I saw tons of them.

I can guarantee you the Confederate flag is the least of our recruiting problems.

PRJ

[hawgbawb]

I drove I-20 Friday from Atlanta to Tuscaloosa and I saw at least a thousand Confederate flags whipping in the wind. In Columbia SC on Tuesday I saw tons of them.

I can guarantee you the Confederate flag is the least of our recruiting problems.

PRJ

The bigger issue is that there are hardly any black folks that live within 100 miles of Fayetteville. There are a handful of Ozark towns that are downright hostile towards them. 

[ShadowHawg]

The bigger issue is that there are hardly any black folks that live within 100 miles of Fayetteville. There are a handful of Ozark towns that are downright hostile towards them.

We don't get white kids either. Explain it with your theory.

[JaketheSnake]

5 years ago Bobby P didn't have a problem with recruiting, the U of A or Fayetteville. Try again. Its the coach. Houston Nutt even got us to the SEC championship game.

BP also had one of the best In-state classes to ever come through the UofA. HDN's best teams were also built arnd excellent in-state talent.

[ShadowHawg]

BP also had one of the best In-state classes to ever come through the UofA. HDN's best teams were also built arnd excellent in-state talent.

BP's highest rated class was his 2nd. Rated inside the top 20 by some of the major services.

[porkrindjimmy]

The bigger issue is that there are hardly any black folks that live within 100 miles of Fayetteville. There are a handful of Ozark towns that are downright hostile towards them. 

Really? Hostile eh? We got modern day violence going on in em? Explain to me hostile? Because I am going to need to see your work on that claim. And not some documentary from Vice or a report from MSNBC claiming certain groups make up the entire populations of these hostile communities.

I can take you one county south of Tuscaloosa county and show you Hostile to minorities. Way more hostile than a Washington, a Benton, a Carroll, a Madison, a Boone, A Newton, a Marion, an Izard, A Stone....

Stop with the propaganda.

PRJ

[hawgbawb]

Serious flaw in your assertion is that the program has a very diverse make up right now.

Are you really trying to claim that only 4 and 5 star players care about southern heritage? We would get bigger and stronger kids?

We aren't getting the white kids either. Explain that using your "theory".

Once the slots fill up at Bama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Florida, etc., the second tier schools get the 3-star and a few 4-star athletes.  But the elite guys who have choices tend to go elsewhere.

My point is that we have to be more welcoming to AA athletes and AA folks in general. Do UA AA athletes want to live in NWA after graduation? We need to make the UA attractive, without resorting to paying players.  We cannot change our winning tradition disadvantage with BAMA but we can change the environment, coaching, etc. to give ourselves an advantage.

[007 License To Squeal]

The biggest problem with our FB program is getting bigger every day.......at least that's the way he appeared last night.

[Mick Hogger]

Nolan Richardson stated the problem, but the good ole boys wouldn't listen.

Nolan went to the title game twice and another Final Four. Didn't see to affect him.

[JaketheSnake]

BP's highest rated class was his 2nd. Rated inside the top 20 by some of the major services.

Which that class, for on-field production, was not very good. That 2007 class had 6 future NFL draftees from Arkansas!  That's huge! 

[247Hog]

Like I said. Step 1 is recognize the problem.

Dude...that darn is old. All our players are treated good. They all get a pass when acting like jackasses in clubs/bars/restaurants/campus that regular students do not get.

The reason racism is a higher in 2017 than it was in 2000 is because people claim/call racism at people that truly aren't but get labeled it for an agenda...like in football threads on a message board. SMH.

[Inhogswetrust]

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

All of the football coaches we've had since then have also successfully recruited black players. 

[Hogdomer]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

That explains the losses to Missouri, South Carolina, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Rutgers, TCU, Virginia Tech and Toledo?  We've held our own against superior talented teams in Ole Miss, Florida, Tennessee and LSU.  Why?  They were more poorly coached than us.  No one expects to beat Alabama and that isn't the reason people want a new coach.

[WaltonCollege]

OP is somewhat correct, a friend I know on Mike Anderson's staff told me similar things about recruiting.  The rebel flags on here have nothing to do with that, NWA is very liberal.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

The problem is there is NO ONE single biggest problem.

[Porkchop#1]

Yeah, because Alabama has no fans with rebel flag avatars or anything.

Exactly, it is strictly limited to Arkansas.

[Inhogswetrust]

OP is somewhat correct, a friend I know on Mike Anderson's staff told me similar things.

Then he needs to ask himself why Kentucky was good before integration and has been good after integration. Even more important he needs to ask himself why some former basketball coaches at the UA were more successful recruiting overall and winning than Mike and his staff has been.

[EastArkHog 47]

Oh my now we can't recruit because of the flag and Confederate avatars, that is stupid in bold print. What we need to do is get back to heavily recruiting Texas, Oklahoma, Louisanna and quit missing on the Arkansas kids that go to other schools and perform very well.

[Redhogs]

Bert

[ShadowHawg]

Which that class, for on-field production, was not very good. That 2007 class had 6 future NFL draftees from Arkansas!  That's huge!

Knife Davis, Kobi Hamilton, Robert Thomas, Alvin Bailey, Travis Swanson, Daquinta Jones, Anthony Leon, Rudell Crim

Wrong

[ShadowHawg]

Still haven't heard why the top white kids aren't coming.

[hogtilicus]

How was Nebraska such a solid program for many years? There aren't a lot of African Americans in Nebraska. It was a good coach and winning. If you have a great coach and are winning at a high rate the recruiting will be easier.

[Porklandia]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

Fayetteville has some recruiting challenges for sure. BUT...I live in Salem Oregon which, 45 miles south of Portland, 40 minutes north of Corvallis and 60 miles north of Eugene. I see more rebel flags out here than I ever saw in Arkansas. I was very surprised but most areas have a race problem. It isn't only in the south. A typical NWAer will treat a black person with much more respect than someone in Springfield, OR.

[JaketheSnake]

Knife Davis, Kobi Hamilton, Robert Thomas, Alvin Bailey, Travis Swanson, Daquinta Jones, Anthony Leon, Rudell Crim

Wrong

I didn't say void of talent. The previous class had more though.  And the 2009 class signed 31 players. 

Leon had 1 decent year.

Darius Winston was the 5 star and the reason that class was rated so high... and he flopped.


Knife Davis was a sharp player.

[BirmingHam]

Really? Hostile eh? We got modern day violence going on in em? Explain to me hostile? Because I am going to need to see your work on that claim. And not some documentary from Vice or a report from MSNBC claiming certain groups make up the entire populations of these hostile communities.

I can take you one county south of Tuscaloosa county and show you Hostile to minorities. Way more hostile than a Washington, a Benton, a Carroll, a Madison, a Boone, A Newton, a Marion, an Izard, A Stone....

Stop with the propaganda.

PRJ

You can't reason with Fayetteville libs.  My mixed race daughter-in-law (AA/white) lives in Bentonville and loves it. I also lived in Birmingham from 1999-2008 and believe me the environment between black/white is alot more strained there than here.  Blount county just north of Jefferson county has active KKK groups, worse than we have here in NWA.

Our recruiting is due to current coaching staff's ability.  Who would want to play in this type of football.

[BirmingHam]

By he way, hip hop is NOT exclusive to colored folk.  Watch a lil more TV than FOX.  The most recent Domino's pizza commercial is set to hip hop music in the background.  It's 2017 folks!

I doubt he's watching FOX, try CNN.

[hawgbawb]

I stand by my original assertion that the biggest problem we have is recruiting. I did not attribute it to rebel flags. I said it is symbolic.  The biggest problem is recruiting.

1. We don't have a championship-wining tradition
2. We run a clean program
3. Our campus is in a sparsely-populated region with mostly white folks.

Our SEC competition has and will use those things against us.

[ShadowHawg]

I didn't say void of talent. The previous class had more though.  And the 2009 class signed 31 players. 

Leon had 1 decent year.

Darius Winston was the 5 star and the reason that class was rated so high... and he flopped.


Knife Davis was a sharp player.

Hardly. Mallet was a transfer. What did we really get? 3 receivers and a qb plus DJihnson who evidently can't count because he wasn't productive every year?

You didn't mention ratings. You claimed they weren't productive. Turns out they were and you were wrong.

[buldozer]

The biggest problem with our football program is a coach and AD that want to abandon the only portion of the state that has ever consistently produced D1 players.... that is LR and south Arkansas. The coach and the AD think they can develop 3 star or no star players from out of state to compete in the SEC. It hasn't happened. In-state kids are likely to buyin to the razorback program and they feel they have a personal stake in the outcome of games. These are the kids that can be developed best because they don't have to be convinced to buyin. They have been bought in since birth.

It all comes down to an AD and head coach who don't understand Arkansas, the culture and the people here. It will take a change in the head coach and hopefully the AD to get our program back on track. And only then if someone with Arkansas ties who has grown up in our culture is hired.

[JaketheSnake]

Hardly. Mallet was a transfer. What did we really get? 3 receivers and a qb plus DJihnson who evidently can't count because he wasn't productive every year?

You didn't mention ratings. You claimed they weren't productive. Turns out they were and you were wrong.

Wasnt including Mallett.  And if you look at what we were discussing before you singled a small part of my response out, you'll see that we were discussing ratings. 

Again, we had 6 in-state guys that came in as true freshmen in 2008 (so RM is excluded) that were drafted.  Years like that always correlate to good years for the hogs 2-4 years after that kind of in-state signing class.