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Author Topic: Ben Herbert  (Read 4936 times)

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draftkings33

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Ben Herbert
« on: October 12, 2017, 01:34:15 pm »

I think this guy has been getting a pass for having natural freaks like JJ Watt who he had in Wisconsin.  This guy doesn't even believe in Bench Press and I know this for a fact.  It wouldn't be hard to figure out though by watching our players at the combine.  You can say all you want about how bench press isn't important, that is a bunch of bull especially for lineman.  Arkansas best years on offensive line has had all lineman with benches over 400 pounds(Burlsworth, Garrett, Andrews, Peters, etc...)
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draftkings33

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 01:36:05 pm »

Right now I bet we have two that can bench 400 plus(Ragnow, Froholdt)
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Pork Ranger

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 01:48:01 pm »

He does focus a lot on legs and back. Which, honestly, can slow a player down a bit. IMO, this emphasis in training has contributed to the foot injuries we've seen here.

Remember a couple years ago watching the video of JWill one-leg squatting 600 lbs? Shortly after losing him for the season with a foot injury. 

Maybe it's coincidental but I think his weight lifting plan is more suitable for wrestlers.
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Wildhog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 01:49:17 pm »

All I know is that our guys have performed very poorly at the combine recently.
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 02:02:53 pm »

You guys could be on to something...valid points
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TNhawgfan

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 02:22:23 pm »

Funny how quickly things change. I remember when herbert was a hogville icon. People would look at our recruits and go, "just wait until herb gets them. Dude will be unstoppable." now he's a reason our line sucks...i think that has a lot more to do with losing pittman and hiring KA
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 02:26:36 pm »

Funny how quickly things change. I remember when herbert was a hogville icon. People would look at our recruits and go, "just wait until herb gets them. Dude will be unstoppable." now he's a reason our line sucks...i think that has a lot more to do with losing pittman and hiring KA
Rarely, if ever, is there just one reason for the failure of a team. There are a number of issues contributing to the struggles we continue to encounter. I would hold open the possibility that Herb could be a factor as well.
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draftkings33

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 02:28:41 pm »

I personally asked him a guys bench a couple of years ago.  He laughed like it was a dumb question and said we don't worry about bench press. 
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OnTheHillHogFan

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 03:20:08 pm »

I personally asked him a guys bench a couple of years ago.  He laughed like it was a dumb question and said we don't worry about bench press.
That is a dumb question
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jkstock04

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 03:29:54 pm »

I personally asked him a guys bench a couple of years ago.  He laughed like it was a dumb question and said we don't worry about bench press. 
That's interesting. I too think bench is a somewhat overrated lift but I had no idea this was the mindset of our strength coach.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 03:32:04 pm »

That's interesting. I too think bench is a somewhat overrated lift but I had no idea this was the mindset of our strength coach.

I wouldn't run with that info you got from here
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twistitup

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 03:34:08 pm »

If the NFL puts importance on the bench (part of the combine) - we should place importance on it too.

Mitch Petrus was super strong - and did really well at the combine I believe.....he didn't last long in the NFL but that goes for many young men. His combine numbers is what earned him an opportunity - we need kids putting up good combine #'s - it directly helps recruiting to have ARK kids noticed by NFL scouts
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Spektre

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 03:34:36 pm »

No one gets a free pass on this staff. Don't care about bench press. What little speed we've had continues to get less and less due to adding bulk... and our bulk is getting it handed to them by stronger bulk + speed.
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twistitup

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2017, 03:37:04 pm »

No one gets a free pass on this staff. Don't care about bench press. What little speed we've had continues to get less and less due to adding bulk... and our bulk is getting it handed to them by stronger bulk + speed.

We don't look bulky....we look weak. Look at Aub and Bama players - that is a bulk and speed combo

Our kids don't look strong and fast... they don't play that way either
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 03:45:55 pm »

Strength and conditioning coach, the easiest scape goat of all.
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SemperHawg

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2017, 03:47:02 pm »

#BodyByHerb

#LightsOnFreaksOut
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Spektre

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2017, 03:51:26 pm »

We don't look bulky....we look weak. Look at Aub and Bama players - that is a bulk and speed combo

Our kids don't look strong and fast... they don't play that way either

My point exactly. I feel like Arkansas' scouting report on every player of every team they play can be summarized with the following Longest Yard quote:

"He fast. He really, really fast. I mean... he so fast, he makes fast people look... not fast."
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AP85

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 03:52:58 pm »

#BodyByHerb

#LightsOnFreaksOut

Are extremely queer.
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snoblind

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 03:58:28 pm »

Strength and conditioning coach, the easiest scape goat of all.

$300,000/year.

Players whipped on the line of scrimmage, team collapses in 2nd half, outran by basically everyone.

I'd say he has earned being a scapegoat.  Sure as hell isn't earning his salary.
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twistitup

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 04:00:52 pm »

Strength and conditioning coach, the easiest scape goat of all.

Easiest to see the results as well.

Weak and Slow is Weak and Slow
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jkstock04

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 04:32:42 pm »

We don't look bulky....we look weak. Look at Aub and Bama players - that is a bulk and speed combo

Our kids don't look strong and fast... they don't play that way either
Dre Greenlaw looks like a specimen.
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BoynamedWooPigSooie

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 04:44:04 pm »

I've been harping on this for years.  Just go look at the rosters in the SEC.  We have so many double chins. The double chin to adam's apple ration on the Arkansas roster is like 4:1.  LSU's ratio is about 1:8. Alabama's ratio is about 1:9

Our guys are mostly smooth muscled and low fast twitch.  There's only 10-15 players on the roster that look like they belong on a SEC squad.
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 04:55:15 pm »

We get pushed around, and our speed for the most part is not high-level.

Herbert is an overrated Weak 10 Conference mirage.
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 05:09:09 pm »

I've been harping on this for years.  Just go look at the rosters in the SEC.  We have so many double chins. The double chin to adam's apple ration on the Arkansas roster is like 4:1.  LSU's ratio is about 1:8. Alabama's ratio is about 1:9

Our guys are mostly smooth muscled and low fast twitch.  There's only 10-15 players on the roster that look like they belong on a SEC squad.

I'd like to see the entire SEC ranked by double chins to adam's apple ratios and see where we fallout.  Your data is observational, I'm not doubting it just need empirical evidence to back it up.  Lanny should get a Hogville intern to research the media guides and compile the numbers.
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26.2Hog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2017, 05:15:11 pm »

Arkansas best years on offensive line has had all lineman with benches over 400 pounds(Burlsworth, Garrett, Andrews, Peters, etc...)

Don't forget All-American Steve Korte from back in the day. He benched 585.
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jrulz83

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2017, 06:21:16 pm »

$300,000/year.

Players whipped on the line of scrimmage, team collapses in 2nd half, outran by basically everyone.

I'd say he has earned being a scapegoat.  Sure as hell isn't earning his salary.

Our fearless leader told us that coaches can only coach whatís on the roster. Maybe thatís the problem, Herbert doesnít have good DNA to work with?

Iím not saying I donít agree with you, Iím just saying that S&C coaches are the easiest hero/loser that Hogville points to. I think the problem is more than the S&C coach.
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jrulz83

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 06:24:14 pm »

Easiest to see the results as well.

Weak and Slow is Weak and Slow

Weak can be changed. Slow? Ehh, most of that is natural ability. Iím not saying it canít be improved, just that I donít think Bielema has ever understood what real SEC speed is.
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 06:25:14 pm »

My point exactly. I feel like Arkansas' scouting report on every player of every team they play can be summarized with the following Longest Yard quote:

"He fast. He really, really fast. I mean... he so fast, he makes fast people look... not fast."
And of course you'd be referring to the truly legendary Tanner English; or would that be Kane Whitehead ::) Then there's always Vin and his poetry.
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HoginMemphis

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 06:28:07 pm »

I think this guy has been getting a pass for having natural freaks like JJ Watt who he had in Wisconsin.  This guy doesn't even believe in Bench Press and I know this for a fact.  It wouldn't be hard to figure out though by watching our players at the combine.  You can say all you want about how bench press isn't important, that is a bunch of bull especially for lineman.  Arkansas best years on offensive line has had all lineman with benches over 400 pounds(Burlsworth, Garrett, Andrews, Peters, etc...)
How can you not believe in bench press? That is an exercise that gives you strength in chest and shoulders which is vital to all linemen.
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Jek Tono Porkins

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2017, 07:02:22 pm »

I especially like this quote from Herbert's bio on the arkansasrazorbacks.com webiste:

"Wisconsinís work with Herbert was evident in the fourth quarters of games, when the Badgers outscored opponents 435-309 from 2009-12. The teamís strength and conditioning work also was apparent late in the season, as Wisconsin was 15-5 in games played in the month of November or later during Herbertís four years as head strength and conditioning coach. The Badgers also outscored its opponents 856-442 in games played in November, December and January."

O RLY?! Well that hasn't seemed to transition to Arkansas. In fact it's been the complete opposite. It's been as opposite as it could be. That statement and Arkansas's 3rd and 4th quarter performances over the years are about as opposed as the Israelis and Palestinians.
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HenduHog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 07:58:12 pm »

I've been saying this since last year. When your Oline is continually being shoved back into the QBs face, and your DLine is pushed off the ball, that is a sign of weakness. 

Understand, this is relative. They are going to be stronger than almost everyone they meet on the street. Unfortunately, they aren't playing almost everyone on the street.
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snoblind

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 08:01:19 pm »

Our fearless leader told us that coaches can only coach what’s on the roster. Maybe that’s the problem, Herbert doesn’t have good DNA to work with?

I’m not saying I don’t agree with you, I’m just saying that S&C coaches are the easiest hero/loser that Hogville points to. I think the problem is more than the S&C coach.

Oh certainly more problems than the S&C coach.
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Smashmouth2004

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2017, 08:13:49 pm »

It seems to me Herbert is more concerned with before and after pics where he can show off a players 6 pack. Is he more powerful? Does he have more endurance? The bench press is one of many important lifts a football player should do but I always judged a football player on what he could power clean. You have to be powerful and explosive for that lift and is a good barometer of that players power.
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Spektre

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2017, 08:22:36 pm »

We needed some Acme Rocket Skates strapped to our entire defense and special teams to even get a sniff of Christian Kirk. South Carolina's tight end broke away from our D with his "epic" speed.

We're big. We're slow. We're weak. We're about as intimidating as box full of kittens.
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2017, 09:43:45 pm »

Right now I bet we have two that can bench 400 plus(Ragnow, Froholdt)

Thatís pathetic.  I see 250lbs recreation lifters hitting this number all the time.  Our linemen should be in the 500lbs club or damn near it and taking 225 for 20 reps.
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devildoghawg

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2017, 09:44:38 pm »

He does focus a lot on legs and back. Which, honestly, can slow a player down a bit. IMO, this emphasis in training has contributed to the foot injuries we've seen here.

Remember a couple years ago watching the video of JWill one-leg squatting 600 lbs? Shortly after losing him for the season with a foot injury. 

Maybe it's coincidental but I think his weight lifting plan is more suitable for wrestlers.

You did not see a video of Jwill squatting 600lbs with one leg.  Please post a link if you actually saw this. 
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LAGNAF

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2017, 09:51:31 pm »

After reading this thread and numerous others, I've come to a conclusion.....There is not a competent member on the UA football staff. Hell, there may not be a competent human being in all of Fayetteville. The experts on all things football are right here on Hogville.
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texas tush hog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2017, 09:57:34 pm »

That's interesting. I too think bench is a somewhat overrated lift but I had no idea this was the mindset of our strength coach.


Have you ever been a strength coach?
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HogFoo

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2017, 10:04:34 pm »

I think this guy has been getting a pass for having natural freaks like JJ Watt who he had in Wisconsin.  This guy doesn't even believe in Bench Press and I know this for a fact.  It wouldn't be hard to figure out though by watching our players at the combine.  You can say all you want about how bench press isn't important, that is a bunch of bull especially for lineman.  Arkansas best years on offensive line has had all lineman with benches over 400 pounds(Burlsworth, Garrett, Andrews, Peters, etc...)
Actually, when we had Burls, garrett, brown, all those guys from that 98' team, Nutt's first team, they could ALL bench 500lbs!  That was probably the strongest OLine team we had.    Ive always felt that the OLine should be strong upper body as well in lower.  Gotta be able to grab the guys , or hold a guy back or even two, if you have a OLine full of guys who can bench 500lbs like the 98 team could, that's when you had something!  Yeah, I like Herbert, but, the one thing that always bothered me was that he didn't necessarily push them to be beasts on bench!  Ive always felt that that was a mistake.  Ill also say that ive heard people before put the reasoning of our foot probs due to how they are training.  So, I don't know, but it sure seems like something they are doing is causing a lot of probs.    Anyways, just my .02 cents. 
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HogFoo

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2017, 10:06:57 pm »

You did not see a video of Jwill squatting 600lbs with one leg.  Please post a link if you actually saw this.
Actually there was a video.  It was a hype video and there you see JWill doing a one leg squat with a LOT of weight on it along with some of the other guys doing squats in what would now be the south EZ roof.  I saw the video too.
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presidenthog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2017, 10:18:33 pm »

You did not see a video of Jwill squatting 600lbs with one leg.  Please post a link if you actually saw this.

It happened. Had nothing to do with his foot injury
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2017, 10:21:51 pm »


Have you ever been a strength coach?
No.
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texas tush hog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2017, 10:35:58 pm »

It happened. Had nothing to do with his foot injury

His foot injury was one or two weeks later.
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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2017, 05:55:24 am »

He is the most over-rated coach on the staff. We look slow and our lines wear down by the 4Q. Watch the game Saturday and just compare how our guys look compared to Bama's....how fast their guys are compared to ours.

But he does make good freak video's.....
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2017, 06:40:26 am »

Weak can be changed. Slow? Ehh, most of that is natural ability. Iím not saying it canít be improved, just that I donít think Bielema has ever understood what real SEC speed is.
I agree. Strength can be improved but speed and athleticism is mostly God Given and must be recruited.   But I do agree our strength and conditioning program should not be called out if we are going about it the wrong way.  IMO, we have not recruited enough SPEED in our back fields on both sides of the ball.  We seem to be concentrating more on recruiting NFL size instead of SEC athleticism.   We do not seem to want to recruit a KR or PR who can take a couple a year to the house and change the game.   We don't seem to want to sign a RB who can go 80 yards but just the ones who can break a tackle at the LOS and get us 10.  Our WRs do not seem to be the HR type.  Our DBs and LBs do not seem to have SEC game speed.  I think Rhoads is addressing it but maybe too late.

SEC football wins because of Speed and athleticism even on our DLs do we see it.  We were ahead of nation for a few years because of it but NOW the other leagues are catching up.  Clemson is there and others are trying to recruit to catch up.  CBB and Herb came in with the Big 10 old school mentality and it shows.   We need a change at the top so we can get a new way of thinking.

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hawgon

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2017, 06:51:04 am »

Speed needs to be recruited.  But the other side of that is that you can recruit speed and then screw it up and slow it down with piss poor training concentrating on building strength with slow twitch muscles instead of fast twitch ones.

I don't know enough about our training methods to say what is being done, I'm merely making the point that it is entirely possible to slow guys down by converting some of their fast twitch muscles to slow twitch muscles.
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Seebs

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2017, 06:55:54 am »

Fast forward to 1:20-1:23. Jonathan Williams doing a one legged squat. His plant foot is wobbling around like he is standing on a ball.

With all that shifting does that mean the weight being lifted is poised solely on one metatarsal bone for a split second?  It may be a reach but this video shows an unstable plant foot with singular points of force on his foot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOXJM8tJZb0
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2017, 07:03:57 am »

Ben Herbert was named  Master Strength and Conditioning Coach (MSCC) by the Collegiate Strength and Conditioning Coaches association (CSCCa). This is the highest award in their profession.  He knows what he's doing. He is training the athletes in the manner that the head coach thinks will best benefit the scheme they want to run. The issue is they don't have a coherent scheme or system in place, but our issues are not Herbert's fault. He's a good Steength coach.
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PharmacistHog

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2017, 07:16:16 am »

Ben Herbert was named  Master Strength and Conditioning Coach (MSCC) by the Collegiate Strength and Conditioning Coaches association (CSCCa). This is the highest award in their profession.  He knows what he's doing. He is training the athletes in the manner that the head coach thinks will best benefit the scheme they want to run. The issue is they don't have a coherent scheme or system in place, but our issues are not Herbert's fault. He's a good Steength coach.

You just need to shut up. We have to hate everybody on the staff.
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jkstock04

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Re: Ben Herbert
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2017, 07:16:43 am »

Speed needs to be recruited.  But the other side of that is that you can recruit speed and then screw it up and slow it down with piss poor training concentrating on building strength with slow twitch muscles instead of fast twitch ones.

I don't know enough about our training methods to say what is being done, I'm merely making the point that it is entirely possible to slow guys down by converting some of their fast twitch muscles to slow twitch muscles.
I've seen guys under this staff that looked very impressive to me their freshmen year only to plateau or even regress. Piss poor coaching and or a problem with the strength/conditioning/nutrition program no doubt are factors.
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