It is Wisconsin...it was never Bielema

[HognotinMemphis]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/10/16449914/gary-andersen-bret-bielema-wisconsin-football-coaches-barry-alvarez

Same for Andersen. See his record at Oregon St.

7 years at Wisconsin and Bielema thought he could repeat it at Arkansas. He hasn't gotten even close. In fact, he's moving the opposite direction with each year worse than the last over past 3 seasons including current one.

[Wildhog]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

[HognotinMemphis]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2017/10/canzano_gary_andersens_exit_ro.html

Andersen tore up his contract and did not try to get any of the the nearly $13 million buyout written into the contract. Wish Bielema would be man enough to do same after bilking Arkansas for about $20 million in salary over past 5 years.

[Hoggie17]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

Me too!

[Razorbackers]

It helps that Wisconsin has never had to put out a fire when a coach leaves. The closest they came was in the wake of Alvarez retiring and when Andersen left after 1 year.

No coach has lit the program up with a molotov the way Nutt and BP did here when they left. In 25 years they've had 4 coaches, and that's including a guy that was there for 1 year.

Arkansas has had 6 coaches in 25 years, but 3 of them have been in the last 10, and now we're about to add a 4th most likely. That kind of turnover is rough on a program. That's why Long promised Bielema time and gave him an extension after Texas. Was the buyout too high? Duh. But Jeez. We need stability. And I was hoping, after 2015, that Bielema was going to give us that stability. I don't need 10 wins every year to have fun and support my team. But this season is unacceptable, especially when combined with last year's breakdown.

I'm really bummed that everything has blown up so bad for Bielema. I like him, I wanted it to work, and I felt like we were on the verge of hitting a nice stride in recruiting and competitiveness in 2015. I don't know what happened, but whatever it was...it sucks. I know what  the next few years are going to be like for the football team, with or without Bielema. And again, I'm not one of these 10 wins or flop guys. But I'm pretty bummed just looking ahead in general.

[Atlhogfan1]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

It was the main question when BB took the job. He had never built a program. And he took a tough job at a bad time to try it.  That is why I've always doubted his decision making. 

[Tusks]

Yep that's what I saw when he was coach there.  Been screaming from the mountain top only to be screamed down.

[Atlhogfan1]

It helps that Wisconsin has never had to put out a fire when a coach leaves. The closest they came was in the wake of Alvarez retiring and when Andersen left after 1 year.

No coach has lit the program up with a molotov the way Nutt and BP did here when they left. In 25 years they've had 4 coaches, and that's including a guy that was there for 1 year.

Arkansas has had 6 coaches in 25 years, but 3 of them have been in the last 10, and now we're about to add a 4th most likely. That kind of turnover is rough on a program. That's why Long promised Bielema time and gave him an extension after Texas. Was the buyout too high? Duh. But Jeez. We need stability. And I was hoping, after 2015, that Bielema was going to give us that stability. I don't need 10 wins every year to have fun and support my team. But this season is unacceptable, especially when combined with last year's breakdown.

I'm really bummed that everything has blown up so bad for Bielema. I like him, I wanted it to work, and I felt like we were on the verge of hitting a nice stride in recruiting and competitiveness in 2015. I don't know what happened, but whatever it was...it sucks. I know what  the next few years are going to be like for the football team, with or without Bielema. And again, I'm not one of these 10 wins or flop guys. But I'm pretty bummed just looking ahead in general.

Good points. 2012 was similar to receiving NCAA sanctions. 

[razorbackfaninar]

I think it has less to do with Alavarez and more to do with the competition they play.  It doesn't seem like a big mystery as to why coaches win a lot there and struggle other places.  I will say though I fell for it when Bielema was hired, looking back on it now it seems pretty obvious that he was playing in such an inferior division of an inferior conference, but I wanted him to be our Saban, a big 10 coach coming down to the SEC and dominating, going on a 10 year run and leaving for the NFL.  I was so hopeful it was hard to let it go. It's hard to admit how much I was overlooking all the flaws because I wanted it to work out so badly.

[Ironhawg]

That situation with Gary Anderson at Oregon State is weird.  He was actually complaining to a reporter about his assistant coaches being incompetent.  Hey coach, who hired them?!  Just a strange deal.

[The Hawg Marshal]

Quite possible that the reason Bret came to Arkansas was that he was tired of being second in command of the football team at Wisconsin, he figured he'd learned enough to do it on his own. Had a lot of people scratching their heads when he was announced as our coach. Now it appears obvious.

[Atlhogfan1]

Quite possible that the reason Bret came to Arkansas was that he was tired of being second in command of the football team at Wisconsin, he figured he'd learned enough to do it on his own. Had a lot of people scratching their heads when he was announced as our coach. Now it appears obvious.

I don't think him leaving Wisconsin was a surprise as much as leaving for Arkansas at that time. We just had a lost season and were behind in recruiting.  He could have waited and selected another job. The career risk coming to Arkansas at that time was dumb

[Vantage 8 dude]

I think it has less to do with Alavarez and more to do with the competition they play.  It doesn't seem like a big mystery as to why coaches win a lot there and struggle other places.  I will say though I fell for it when Bielema was hired, looking back on it now it seems pretty obvious that he was playing in such an inferior division of an inferior conference, but I wanted him to be our Saban, a big 10 coach coming down to the SEC and dominating, going on a 10 year run and leaving for the NFL.  I was so hopeful it was hard to let it go. It's hard to admit how much I was overlooking all the flaws because I wanted it to work out so badly.

While we can doubt and downplay the overall strength of the BIG 10 all day long, the plain truth of the matter is that Wisconsin DOES play some very good football year in, year out. Like Arkansas they aren't exactly in the middle of the most fertile of recruiting fields. While the Badger state does produce some good players, UW isn't going to typically get rich of just that state. Like Arkansas they still have to go other places to find players. Like the Hogs they also aren't going to win many accolades when it comes to rankings each year.

Wisconsin may not play the OSU's, and PSUs each and every year. However, they still have to play them on a rotational basis AND they also have to play MSU, Nebraska (weaker or late) and others. The point is that while many would justifiably argue that it may be easier to win at Wisky, I would counter that by saying all-in-all the Badgers do a pretty fair job of evaluating and developing talent AND the certainly do a ton better job of coaching, game planning AND making game time adjustments. Add to that program another-Michigan State. They typically have the "left overs" of the state after the school led by the "blow hard of college football" Jim Harbaugh.

[The Hawg Marshal]

I don't think him leaving Wisconsin was a surprise as much as leaving for Arkansas at that time. We just had a lost season and were behind in recruiting.  He could have waited and selected another job. The career risk coming to Arkansas at that time was dumb

He probably just looked at Bobby's last 2 years and figured "hey I can win there". But as we all know now ,his attention to detail is somewhat lacking.

[hogcard1964]

I think it has less to do with Alavarez and more to do with the competition they play.  It doesn't seem like a big mystery as to why coaches win a lot there and struggle other places.  I will say though I fell for it when Bielema was hired, looking back on it now it seems pretty obvious that he was playing in such an inferior division of an inferior conference, but I wanted him to be our Saban, a big 10 coach coming down to the SEC and dominating, going on a 10 year run and leaving for the NFL.  I was so hopeful it was hard to let it go. It's hard to admit how much I was overlooking all the flaws because I wanted it to work out so badly.

This is true.  That division is generally garbage.

[Atlhogfan1]

He probably just looked at Bobby's last 2 years and figured "hey I can win there". But as we all know now ,his attention to detail is somewhat lacking.

I'm sure he did.  And perhaps the DMac era.  And heard stories from his mentor Fry. 

[onebadrubi]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

Op has to start 10+ new threads a day even if it's an obvious thought or been bEaten to death on here

[FineAsSwine]

I don't think him leaving Wisconsin was a surprise as much as leaving for Arkansas at that time. We just had a lost season and were behind in recruiting.  He could have waited and selected another job. The career risk coming to Arkansas at that time was dumb

Doesn't look dumb to me. CBB may not be winning on the field but he is definitely winning at the bank.

[Atlhogfan1]

Doesn't look dumb to me. CBB may not be winning on the field but he is definitely winning at the bank.

True. But he would have been paid well elsewhere too.  And perhaps not damaged his career as badly. 

[Tusks]

What makes you guys think there's much in BB that makes him a competent HC?  He was sat down by Alvarez his 3rd season in and told he had to 'pick it up'.  He admits freely he's a CEO coach.  Look at the assistants that were there and put in by Alvarez.

I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he will ever be success in a P5 conference as HC?

I hate to torpedo peoples accomplishment but he went to the Rose Bowl with a 7-5 record (4-4) conference.

Really man, really.

[onebadrubi]

Kinda hard to deflect so many attack vectors... we get it. 

He posted a link to an article, so there's that.  Have fun.

I'm not deflecting anything...  I'm not taking up for Bielema either. For whatever the reason is, the man has dug his grave for being the Arkansas coach

[HognotinMemphis]

Op has to start 10+ new threads a day even if it's an obvious thought or been bEaten to death on here

Are you in cahoots with Vantage 8 Dude? You guys seem to track me down to add a negative comment about me and nothing about the content. Hope you are not this bitter in your daily life. You let me get under your skin and that's on you, not me.

As for starting 10+ new threads a day, I do love the exaggerated number. You give me more credit than I am due by factor of 5.

[onebadrubi]

What makes you guys think there's much in BB that makes him a competent HC?  He was sat down by Alvarez his 3rd season in and told he had to 'pick it up'.  He admits freely he's a CEO coach.  Look at the assistants that were there and put in by Alvarez.

I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he will ever be success in a P5 conference as HC?

I hate to torpedo peoples accomplishment but he went to the Rose Bowl with a 7-5 record (4-4) conference.

Really man, really.

Qft

[FineAsSwine]

True. But he would have been paid well elsewhere too.  And perhaps not damaged his career as badly.

He is going to end up pocketing more than $30 million by the time he's done at Arkansas.  He can take a few years off  spend time with the family and maybe write a book or whatever.

He could even get a job on ESPN as a commentator. He's not financially distressed no matter what happens.  He can let someone else come in and try to win at Arkansas and if they fall flat on their face, he can feel justified and in time, Someone else will give him a shot.

[DeltaBoy]

The Program and AD what made Whiskey.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Are you in cahoots with Vantage 8 Dude? You guys seem to track me down to add a negative comment about me and nothing about the content. Hope you are not this bitter in your daily life. You let me get under your skin and that's on you, not me.

As for starting 10+ new threads a day, I do love the exaggerated number. You give me more credit than I am due by factor of 5.

And of course in addition to your marvelous, incomparable job as a some sort of self-professed financial "guru" you also have a PHD in psychoanalysis..nice. However, before you go and and on about your expertise in this area please understand in your case it's actually PSYCHOTIC that applies. BTW see that you're already broken your earlier pledge to quit stalking me. However, I suppose in your case as with any addict it's inevitable.

[oldhog63]

I don't think him leaving Wisconsin was a surprise as much as leaving for Arkansas at that time. We just had a lost season and were behind in recruiting.  He could have waited and selected another job. The career risk coming to Arkansas at that time was dumb

When I was starting my career, I was told by my mentors to stay away from successful projects and to take on failing projects if I wanted to make a name for myself. The razorback football program was the perfect opportunity for someone to make a name for themselves. Nowhere to go but up. Sure there were risks, but for someone that wanted to get out of a shadow and make a name for himself, it was the perfect situation. Unfortunately for everyone, it didn't work out.

[Wisco Pig]

Pat Richter got the ball rolling up there and Alvarez has done a fantastic job at AD after Richter.   

[SudsMcBucky]

I think it has less to do with Alavarez and more to do with the competition they play. It doesn't seem like a big mystery as to why coaches win a lot there and struggle other places.  I will say though I fell for it when Bielema was hired, looking back on it now it seems pretty obvious that he was playing in such an inferior division of an inferior conference, but I wanted him to be our Saban, a big 10 coach coming down to the SEC and dominating, going on a 10 year run and leaving for the NFL.  I was so hopeful it was hard to let it go. It's hard to admit how much I was overlooking all the flaws because I wanted it to work out so badly.

Disagree.  Our bowl record is 13-9, including multiple wins over Auburn, Arkansas, UCLA, USC, Miami, etc.  Bielema's success was more tied to having Paul Chryst as his OC.  Look at his combined Badger and Arkansas with and w/o PC.  Here's the real problem with BB.  He's really a defensive guy.  And the D's were the reason for not having even BETTER teams during the BB era.  For some reason, I see many people talking about the offenses he ran at Wisconsin.  Those were the result of PC and PC's OL coach. 

[DoctorSusscrofa]

A fresh, brand new topic is always appreciated just like a brand new car or a brand new love. 

[razorbackfaninar]

Disagree.  Our bowl record is 13-9, including multiple wins over Auburn, Arkansas, UCLA, USC, Miami, etc.  Bielema's success was more tied to having Paul Chryst as his OC.  Look at his combined Badger and Arkansas with and w/o PC.  Here's the real problem with BB.  He's really a defensive guy.  And the D's were the reason for not having even BETTER teams during the BB era.  For some reason, I see many people talking about the offenses he ran at Wisconsin.  Those were the result of PC and PC's OL coach.

No offense but lets look at 2014 for example the year Wisconsin won the bowl game against Auburn.  In 2014 Wisconsin had 10 regular season wins.  That sounds great,  but those wins were against Western Illinois, Bowling green, South Florida(4-8), Illinois(6-7), Maryland (7-6), Rutgers (8-5), Purdue (3-9), Nebraska (9-4), Iowa (7-6), Minnesota (8-5).  So not a lot of quality wins, maybe not any quality wins of those 10. Those 10 wins gave Wisconsin a #17 ranking and a trip to the Outback Bowl.  They beat an Auburn Team in overtime that went 8-5 losing 5 of their last 8 games.

When you can win 10 games and a bowl and not really point to a quality win on the schedule you can say that the schedule is terrible. It is pretty easy to see why a halfway competent coach can win big at Wisconsin.

The Bowl record since 2000 is 7-8.  2 wins over Auburn, UCLA, Colorado, Arkansas, Miami, USC, Western Michigan.  The bowl record over all is 14-14 all time.  Wisconsin is an average to good team that plays in a horrendous conference and so the program and the coach look better than they actually are.  That is why the coaches look inept when they go any where else and why Wisconsin wins pretty much the same amount of games no matter the coach or the season.       



 

   

[HognotinMemphis]

And of course in addition to your marvelous, incomparable job as a some sort of self-professed financial "guru" you also have a PHD in psychoanalysis..nice. However, before you go and and on about your expertise in this area please understand in your case it's actually PSYCHOTIC that applies. BTW see that you're already broken your earlier pledge to quit stalking me. However, I suppose in your case as with any addict it's inevitable.

Why are you bothering me? Envy? You are making up things I have never said...like guru, and a doctorate. What dream did you have about all of this and why did you have it?

[Jimbob111]

It helps that Wisconsin has never had to put out a fire when a coach leaves. The closest they came was in the wake of Alvarez retiring and when Andersen left after 1 year.

No coach has lit the program up with a molotov the way Nutt and BP did here when they left. In 25 years they've had 4 coaches, and that's including a guy that was there for 1 year.

Arkansas has had 6 coaches in 25 years, but 3 of them have been in the last 10, and now we're about to add a 4th most likely. That kind of turnover is rough on a program. That's why Long promised Bielema time and gave him an extension after Texas. Was the buyout too high? Duh. But Jeez. We need stability. And I was hoping, after 2015, that Bielema was going to give us that stability. I don't need 10 wins every year to have fun and support my team. But this season is unacceptable, especially when combined with last year's breakdown.

I'm really bummed that everything has blown up so bad for Bielema. I like him, I wanted it to work, and I felt like we were on the verge of hitting a nice stride in recruiting and competitiveness in 2015. I don't know what happened, but whatever it was...it sucks. I know what  the next few years are going to be like for the football team, with or without Bielema. And again, I'm not one of these 10 wins or flop guys. But I'm pretty bummed just looking ahead in general.

If I could quote this 1000 times, I would. It's a perfect summation.

[onebadrubi]

I believe I remember seeing a stat some time ago stating Jeff Long makes quite a bit more than Barry Alvarez.

Stunning to consider.

According to USA Today, Barry is making max 1.2 and Jeff is 900k.  Barry is often accused of making moves to benefit himself instead of the program, one of those is often keeping the purse strings so tight so he can look better and get raises.  I'd have to think those with the last two years and Chryst getting that program trending back up that talk has quieted down.

[Bebop]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

I became convinced of this the more Bielema started to lose. Thanks for bringing it to light.

[RebHog]

Op has to start 10+ new threads a day even if it's an obvious thought or been bEaten to death on here

He provided a link that had some interesting tidbits and this is a funny statement coming from a post that does nothing but piss and moan about useless post while providing NOTHING of importance. Hey here's an idea if you don't like a thread don't read it. #boothisfoo

Bret Bielema and Gary Andersen had a combined .737 win percentage in their nine seasons as Wisconsin head coaches.
Since leaving for Arkansas and Oregon State, respectively, they've combined to go .395.
Here's where it's also worth noting Chryst was 19-19 at Pitt, but 26-6 since returning to UW

This should answer any questions as for CBB's struggles these stats tell the tale.

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

I agree with alot of whats been said on both sides.  We all love our team and everyone hates losing, but some of the commentary is baffling.  Some want to call him fat, lazy, stupid, anything to support him being a bad coach and getting fired.  So we can talk about it being easier to win at Wisconsin but one thing I havent heard mentioned is that he beat us head to head the year we had a heisman finalist and what some might consider our best team in the SEC era.  Luck?

[Rudy Baylor]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/10/16449914/gary-andersen-bret-bielema-wisconsin-football-coaches-barry-alvarez

Same for Andersen. See his record at Oregon St.

7 years at Wisconsin and Bielema thought he could repeat it at Arkansas. He hasn't gotten even close. In fact, he's moving the opposite direction with each year worse than the last over past 3 seasons including current one.

You stole that from Jim Harris

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

Luck was at Stanford.

Alvarez.

Good luck finding any UW fans that want FatBert anywhere near their football program.

Got it, easy to win at UW (including a win over us), barry alvarez, and fans negative opinions.  Im going to jot that down somewhere.

[Hoggiedawg]

I've never seen so many idiots not admit it was JL and his stupid hire of JLS that burned the program to the ground prior to CBB.

[Sapperhog]

While we can doubt and downplay the overall strength of the BIG 10 all day long, the plain truth of the matter is that Wisconsin DOES play some very good football year in, year out. Like Arkansas they aren't exactly in the middle of the most fertile of recruiting fields. While the Badger state does produce some good players, UW isn't going to typically get rich of just that state. Like Arkansas they still have to go other places to find players. Like the Hogs they also aren't going to win many accolades when it comes to rankings each year.

Wisconsin may not play the OSU's, and PSUs each and every year. However, they still have to play them on a rotational basis AND they also have to play MSU, Nebraska (weaker or late) and others. The point is that while many would justifiably argue that it may be easier to win at Wisky, I would counter that by saying all-in-all the Badgers do a pretty fair job of evaluating and developing talent AND the certainly do a ton better job of coaching, game planning AND making game time adjustments. Add to that program another-Michigan State. They typically have the "left overs" of the state after the school led by the "blow hard of college football" Jim Harbaugh.

Spot on. They've pulled some very solid kids (and developed them in a big way) out of Florida since Bielema left and have found yet another good RB from Jersey this year in Taylor. Bottom line, they've taken care of business.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Quite possible that the reason Bret came to Arkansas was that he was tired of being second in command of the football team at Wisconsin, he figured he'd learned enough to do it on his own. Had a lot of people scratching their heads when he was announced as our coach. Now it appears obvious.

That's exactly why he left. He was tired of being in Alvarez's shadow.
Wanted to be on his own and spread his wings.

[Iwastherein1969]

There are pages and pages of me trying to tell people that.

Are you saying that Hog in Memphis is a little late to the party you've been throwing about the subject to this thread ?

[longpig]

Quite possible that the reason Bret came to Arkansas was that he was tired of being second in command of the football team at Wisconsin, he figured he'd learned enough to do it on his own. Had a lot of people scratching their heads when he was announced as our coach. Now it appears obvious.

That's pretty much it. Who knows if Long was privy to Alvarez doing the hiring and firing at Wisconisn.  At the time, Wisconsin fans certainly were. 

[madison]

For some reason, I see many people talking about the offenses he ran at Wisconsin.  Those were the result of PC and PC's OL coach.

I am always baffled by the narrative that Bret ran the offenses at Wisconsin. He was a DC. He never ran an offense or built an offensive line.

[GoHogs1091]

Really, when the history books/sports reference--data sites show the Wisconsin record for the time Bielema was their Head Coach, it should be shown as the following.

Bielema/Alvarez   or   Bielema (Alvarez)

[SudsMcBucky]

No offense but lets look at 2014 for example the year Wisconsin won the bowl game against Auburn.  In 2014 Wisconsin had 10 regular season wins.  That sounds great,  but those wins were against Western Illinois, Bowling green, South Florida(4-8), Illinois(6-7), Maryland (7-6), Rutgers (8-5), Purdue (3-9), Nebraska (9-4), Iowa (7-6), Minnesota (8-5).  So not a lot of quality wins, maybe not any quality wins of those 10. Those 10 wins gave Wisconsin a #17 ranking and a trip to the Outback Bowl.  They beat an Auburn Team in overtime that went 8-5 losing 5 of their last 8 games.

When you can win 10 games and a bowl and not really point to a quality win on the schedule you can say that the schedule is terrible. It is pretty easy to see why a halfway competent coach can win big at Wisconsin.

The Bowl record since 2000 is 7-8.  2 wins over Auburn, UCLA, Colorado, Arkansas, Miami, USC, Western Michigan.  The bowl record over all is 14-14 all time.  Wisconsin is an average to good team that plays in a horrendous conference and so the program and the coach look better than they actually are.  That is why the coaches look inept when they go any where else and why Wisconsin wins pretty much the same amount of games no matter the coach or the season.       


   

Please try and understand what I'm saying.  I'm not saying our schedule has been the greatest.  And the bowl record I quoted was from the time Alvarez started, since that's kind of the time period we're talking about.  Anyway, the point is if you're saying the team was just AVERAGE the last 25 years, that's where you're wrong.  Granted we don't play in the almighty SEC where all 14 teams should be top 25, but my point is we've beaten our fair share of really good teams OOC when we've had the opportunity.  BB just had much better teams and an OC that was lights out which was the difference between him then and now.

[HognotinMemphis]

You stole that from Jim Harris

Stole what, a link to another article?