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Author Topic: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long  (Read 3419 times)

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hawgon

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2017, 09:25:09 am »

Jeff Long survives.

The fact that someone likely leaked to the ADG that the buyout is actually $5.9 million is a pretty clear defense of the athletic department and Long. It was still a blunder to raise the buyout, but not as big of one as perceived by everyone on here.

What would be the point of setting this straight unless Long wanted to stay? It doesn't help Bielema at all, just the opposite.

To put the pressure on Long in that he has no excuse now.  The main reason ANYONE has been against the firing is that it was just two expensive.  Now, the heat is going to go nowhere but up over the last month of the season.

Long has no choice now.
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Been10Hog

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2017, 09:36:01 am »

To put the pressure on Long in that he has no excuse now.  The main reason ANYONE has been against the firing is that it was just two expensive.  Now, the heat is going to go nowhere but up over the last month of the season.

Long has no choice now.
What if we lose to Bama and Auburn then beat Coastal Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU and Mizzou? Does he have to fire him then with another bowl appearance and chance for 8 wins? Curious what everyone would think.
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2017, 09:40:21 am »

So the Old contract is still whats in play(the language) and the new extention and numbers (buyout) were just like an amendment still regulated by the original deal?
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2017, 09:42:16 am »

Jeff Long survives.

The fact that someone likely leaked to the ADG that the buyout is actually $5.9 million is a pretty clear defense of the athletic department and Long. It was still a blunder to raise the buyout, but not as big of one as perceived by everyone on here.

What would be the point of setting this straight unless Long wanted to stay? It doesn't help Bielema at all, just the opposite.
The buyout wouldn't have been a blunder at 5.9. That's appropriate.
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hawgon

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2017, 09:48:19 am »

What if we lose to Bama and Auburn then beat Coastal Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU and Mizzou? Does he have to fire him then with another bowl appearance and chance for 8 wins? Curious what everyone would think.

Yeah, he still has to fire him then.  Eight wins means nothing at Arkansas unless there is hope that it portends bigger and better things.  That hope is gone with Bielema because he has shown that he will never have his team ready to play early in the season and that he will always lose two to three games a year that he shouldn't. 

At Arkansas, like everywhere else in the SEC but Vanderbilt, we want to play for championships.  We understand that it isn't going to happen all that often and we know that we are going to have some bad years, but we cannot tolerate a coach who offers us no hope of ever getting there.
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2017, 09:50:11 am »

What if we lose to Bama and Auburn then beat Coastal Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU and Mizzou? Does he have to fire him then with another bowl appearance and chance for 8 wins? Curious what everyone would think.

If he turns it around that hard and we rattle off that many consecutive wins and hit 8 Ws he sure as heck won't be fired.

It's not going to happen, but if it does, great! 8 wins was my minimum for this season, anyway. It was a "everything goes wrong" record. And boy howdy, has everything gone wrong.
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Jimbob111

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2017, 10:04:24 am »

The problem is Bielema ain't changing.
He is who he is.
He can change assistants 2,000 times and overall things will stay the same.

He will always be the coach who makes mistakes on game day, whose teams are woefully ill-prepared to start the season, whose teams have a hard time playing 4 quarters and who loses 2 to 3 games every year he shouldn't lose.

If Long had waited a season or 2 he would have seen it.

This is the most important thing, in my mind, to remember about Bret. He ain't changing. He is either unable or unwilling or some combination of both. But he ain't changing.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2017, 10:13:05 am »

Stability and support. Taking the pressure to "win immediately or we'll fire you" off of his shoulders, giving him breathing room to continue to rebuild the team. Showing support for the process of finding the right players and building depth and implementing the offense. Showing other coaches around the country that Arkansas may be a tough job, but you'll get paid and have every opportunity to succeed here.

The buyout is too high but let's stop pretending that A) high buyouts aren't common across all of college football and B) there's no justification for the new contract after 2014.

A&M was the only team that beat us that didn't finish the season ranked in the top 25. Arkansas' worst loss that year was week 1 to Auburn in a game that was close, but depth and experience cost us late. OT loss to TAMU, 1 point loss to Bama, 13 point loss to UGA, 7 point loss to MSU, 7 point loss to Miz.

It wasn't just the wins over OM, LSU, and Texas that got the fanbase excited about Bielema, had Long and the BOT excited about the future, and got him the extension. It was the way we were losing. Close games, being competitive with a murderous schedule, shutting out back to back ranked opponents, and doing it with a roster that would have a lot of offense back in 2015.

The reason for the money and the optimism is pretty obvious to me. Again, it is a very high buyout that wasn't warranted, but the reason behind wanting to renegotiate is there.

Good post.  It very clearly illustrates that everything APPEARED to be going to plan at that point.  It looked like we were a whisker away from really being competitive.  What's difficult to explain is how we went from arguably being competitive in virtually every game, to where we are now, when the recruiting numbers have stayed the same. 

I keep hearing the announcers saying we're suffering from an identity crisis, but if your O-line can't block for the run or the pass, what is your identity?  And...I'll never understand going to a 3-4 when we couldn't even get three SEC caliber LB's on the field to begin with.  My prediction with that was that we would be trying to grab ahold of RB's with three yards and a head of steam, and it would be 5 yards every carry.  I was wrong..it's closer to 7, and it's ugly, and it's going to look REALLY ugly against Bama's RB's. 
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2017, 10:15:41 am »

As Dr. Bukey would say...succinct, and to the point.

The buyout is quite rigorous!
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2017, 10:16:01 am »

Jeff Long survives.

The fact that someone likely leaked to the ADG that the buyout is actually $5.9 million is a pretty clear defense of the athletic department and Long. It was still a blunder to raise the buyout, but not as big of one as perceived by everyone on here.

What would be the point of setting this straight unless Long wanted to stay? It doesn't help Bielema at all, just the opposite.
I agree.unless he takes another job.he will be here. but if it were up to me.Jeff Long would be out of here.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2017, 10:26:19 am »

I'm not an AD but I have managed businesses over the years and I never understood this particular move by Long at the time. I'm not sure that I would have done this even if he had produced a 10-3 season that year. Far too early.

Good HC's who can turn programs around quickly are always going to be in demand, but when a guy has a minimum 5 to 6 year contract to begin with, I would hope that I would have had to restrain myself and wait to see what the following few years produced as well.

Now had he won 10 in 2014 and then 9 in 2015 and 10 in 2016, yeah, I might have looked to lock him in for a much longer term with a bigger buy-out, especially with him having done that at Arkansas. Given those results, the time to lock him down would have been after the 2016 season.

But here is the question, if Long had waited to just see how much we progressed as a program after seeing a 3-9 season (2013), a 7-6 (2014), an 8-5 (2015) and a 7-6 (2016), and all of the things that have gone wrong, would there have been sufficient support from those to whom he reports, for an extension and elevated buy-out? I doubt it.

But aren't we looking at the OVERALL number?  Didn't the extenstion only increase the buyout by $2M.  To me, that's not a HUGE vote of confidence in the grand scheme of things.  Granted, I haven't reviewed the contract to see if it also eliminated the yearly decreases in the buyout number, but $2M to keep a coach that APPEARED to have everything going the right direction doesn't seem like a ton.  If it was from ZERO to $15M...then yep, that's bonkers. 

At any rate, I'm still wondering what Jeff Long used to sell the BOT on a buyout that large to begin with, and I contend that the BOT is just as guilty.  When the season started, I thought there was no way we weren't going to win 6 games, even if AA was injured, so with the huge buyout, I figured CBB was here for at least another year.  Now I'm not so sure, because we don't even appear to be competitive, and if the team lets up...we'll get steamrolled down the stretch. 

I do think there WERE $15M reasons CBB would be here next season, but I also have to believe that if the BOT put up that kind of buyout number, they have the money to pay it if it goes to hades in a hand basket as well.  If they don't...then wow, that's a fail that is on par with CBB this season. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2017, 10:28:47 am »

This is the most important thing, in my mind, to remember about Bret. He ain't changing. He is either unable or unwilling or some combination of both. But he ain't changing.

Totally agree.  He's part mule.  He came in almost arrogantly saying that he has a system that he knows will win football games.  I just don't think he realized it wouldn't win football games in the SEC.   ;D
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Razorbackers

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2017, 10:30:21 am »

Good post.  It very clearly illustrates that everything APPEARED to be going to plan at that point.  It looked like we were a whisker away from really being competitive.  What's difficult to explain is how we went from arguably being competitive in virtually every game, to where we are now, when the recruiting numbers have stayed the same. 

I keep hearing the announcers saying we're suffering from an identity crisis, but if your O-line can't block for the run or the pass, what is your identity?  And...I'll never understand going to a 3-4 when we couldn't even get three SEC caliber LB's on the field to begin with.  My prediction with that was that we would be trying to grab ahold of RB's with three yards and a head of steam, and it would be 5 yards every carry.  I was wrong..it's closer to 7, and it's ugly, and it's going to look REALLY ugly against Bama's RB's.

That's my problem as well. The issues last year with the line and the offense were explainable. New starters, lost some talented guys to the NFL, etc. This year? I can explain away the line issues in my mind, or the offensive struggles. And the defense has looked decent at times, but overall, has been equally prone to give up big plays.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2017, 10:48:42 am »

That's my problem as well. The issues last year with the line and the offense were explainable. New starters, lost some talented guys to the NFL, etc. This year? I can explain away the line issues in my mind, or the offensive struggles. And the defense has looked decent at times, but overall, has been equally prone to give up big plays.

I'm guessing you meant "caN'T explain away..."   At the 30K foot level view, just a few short seasons ago I think most of us thought that we were poised to get some of the best linemen in the country after seeing how much publicity they were getting, and how many were getting into the NFL.  It was also Bret's calling card. 

That's where I struggle to understand ANY way of excusing that issue, because it appeared to be where we could make hay, and instead...it's arguably our biggest weakness. 

It's just hard being a Hog fan isn't it?  We finally appear to have a stable of running backs that can run the gamut from pounding the ball inside, all the way to game breaking speed, and they can barely take the handoff without getting hit.  Go figure....it's ALWAYS some issue. 

Can you imagine what it would be like this season if we were being competitive, and having to rely on FG kicking to win close games?  Oh man....that would be a NIGHTMARE of epic proportion.  We just never seem to have a team without at least one GLARING weakness.  It makes it that much more impressive when you see teams like Bama and Clemson who don't have weaknesses, and don't make silly mistakes that look like Jr. High type stuff.   
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Razorbackers

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2017, 10:51:18 am »

I'm guessing you meant "caN'T explain away..."   At the 30K foot level view, just a few short seasons ago I think most of us thought that we were poised to get some of the best linemen in the country after seeing how much publicity they were getting, and how many were getting into the NFL.  It was also Bret's calling card. 

That's where I struggle to understand ANY way of excusing that issue, because it appeared to be where we could make hay, and instead...it's arguably our biggest weakness. 

It's just hard being a Hog fan isn't it?  We finally appear to have a stable of running backs that can run the gamut from pounding the ball inside, all the way to game breaking speed, and they can barely take the handoff without getting hit.  Go figure....it's ALWAYS some issue. 

Can you imagine what it would be like this season if we were being competitive, and having to rely on FG kicking to win close games?  Oh man....that would be a NIGHTMARE of epic proportion.  We just never seem to have a team without at least one GLARING weakness.  It makes it that much more impressive when you see teams like Bama and Clemson who don't have weaknesses, and don't make silly mistakes that look like Jr. High type stuff.   

Yep, my bad. I CAN'T explain this season's struggles. They're unexcusable.
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RazorbackEagle1996

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2017, 10:56:45 am »

If we got rid of long and wanted a new AD who would we get! We need an inside someone from the state and someone who knows what this sport means to the state!
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2017, 11:31:04 am »

But aren't we looking at the OVERALL number?  Didn't the extenstion only increase the buyout by $2M.  To me, that's not a HUGE vote of confidence in the grand scheme of things.  Granted, I haven't reviewed the contract to see if it also eliminated the yearly decreases in the buyout number, but $2M to keep a coach that APPEARED to have everything going the right direction doesn't seem like a ton.  If it was from ZERO to $15M...then yep, that's bonkers. 

At any rate, I'm still wondering what Jeff Long used to sell the BOT on a buyout that large to begin with, and I contend that the BOT is just as guilty.  When the season started, I thought there was no way we weren't going to win 6 games, even if AA was injured, so with the huge buyout, I figured CBB was here for at least another year.  Now I'm not so sure, because we don't even appear to be competitive, and if the team lets up...we'll get steamrolled down the stretch. 

I do think there WERE $15M reasons CBB would be here next season, but I also have to believe that if the BOT put up that kind of buyout number, they have the money to pay it if it goes to hades in a hand basket as well.  If they don't...then wow, that's a fail that is on par with CBB this season. 

With the way it has been defined as of today, it doesn't end up being as unreasonable of a number. It is a number that is manageable if there is sufficient motivation to do so. If we lose by 50 this weekend and 40 the next, that buy-out might be paid and certainly, the remainder of the staff would be retained at least through the end of season, so whatever they would have coming wouldn't be paid until after the first of the year.

I don't know how much we would gain by getting Bielema out and having an Interim in place for the remainder of the season so I am pretty sure that while Long might still begin his "super-secret search", he would argue that there was no reason to discharge Bielema after 6 or 7 games. Besides, the buy-out goes down more after the season.
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longpig

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2017, 11:37:50 am »

Yeah, he still has to fire him then.  Eight wins means nothing at Arkansas unless there is hope that it portends bigger and better things.  That hope is gone with Bielema because he has shown that he will never have his team ready to play early in the season and that he will always lose two to three games a year that he shouldn't. 

At Arkansas, like everywhere else in the SEC but Vanderbilt, we want to play for championships.  We understand that it isn't going to happen all that often and we know that we are going to have some bad years, but we cannot tolerate a coach who offers us no hope of ever getting there.

Exactly. 
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Jim Harris

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2017, 12:05:56 pm »

What if we lose to Bama and Auburn then beat Coastal Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss St., LSU and Mizzou? Does he have to fire him then with another bowl appearance and chance for 8 wins? Curious what everyone would think.

what would be ideal is that he rallies to finish 6-6 or 7-5, the Central Florida job opens when Nebraska hires Scott Frost, and he goes there. He'll be happier, Jen will surely be happier, Hog fans will be happier, and Les Miles can be happier because his grad student assistant at Michigan will hire him.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #119 on: October 12, 2017, 12:06:33 pm »

With the way it has been defined as of today, it doesn't end up being as unreasonable of a number. It is a number that is manageable if there is sufficient motivation to do so. If we lose by 50 this weekend and 40 the next, that buy-out might be paid and certainly, the remainder of the staff would be retained at least through the end of season, so whatever they would have coming wouldn't be paid until after the first of the year.

I don't know how much we would gain by getting Bielema out and having an Interim in place for the remainder of the season so I am pretty sure that while Long might still begin his "super-secret search", he would argue that there was no reason to discharge Bielema after 6 or 7 games. Besides, the buy-out goes down more after the season.

Yeah, I am in the thread of the new lower buyout revelation, and that does probably change things.  I am still in the camp of Long not being in any trouble at all.  I don't think the casual fan thinks he's done anything wrong, and in fact they probably view the improved facilities and continued growth in funding as positives.  I'm in the camp of not thinking he was wrong in hiring CBB, even though I disagreed vehemently with it and thought Malzahn was a better option for us...which turned out to earn me a HV vacation.   

It's interesting that the thought process now is that Long was feeling the heat for the alledged $15M buyout, and suddently on the eve of the Bama game, it's made public that the buyout is actually under $6M on his contract, and $2M for assistants.  It does sort of seem coincidental in some ways that as the fan base started to get more restless, clarification suddently appeared. 
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HoggyCat

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #120 on: October 12, 2017, 12:08:34 pm »

hahahahaha you're assuming that JL thinks.

Jeff Long knows exactly what he's doing.... protecting himself.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2017, 12:12:53 pm »

what would be ideal is that he rallies to finish 6-6 or 7-5, the Central Florida job opens when Nebraska hires Scott Frost, and he goes there. He'll be happier, Jen will surely be happier, Hog fans will be happier, and Les Miles can be happier because his grad student assistant at Michigan will hire him.

I'm not joking one bit....if Jeff Long hires Les Miles as our next coach, I will not watch another down until he's gone.  I think LSU won despite Les Miles, and if they could get their head out of their rear ends, and hire someone as good as Petersen at Wash or even Patterson from TCU, they would wipe up CFB IMO.  I don't think they even need and elite coach...just someone better than Orgeron, who showed how great he was at Ole Miss. 

I cannot stand Les Miles, and his style of football here would not work at all.  It would be CBB part two, only we would field the worst QB in the SEC perennially. 
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Been10Hog

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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #122 on: October 12, 2017, 01:30:49 pm »

I don't understand how anyone could think Les Miles could come here and do better with our talent than he did with LSUs talent ???
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2017, 02:46:14 pm »

Fire JEFF LONG!!!
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2017, 02:49:02 pm »

I don't understand how anyone could think Les Miles could come here and do better with our talent than he did with LSUs talent ???

This. 
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Re: Bonehead decision by Athletic Director Long
« Reply #125 on: October 12, 2017, 02:51:55 pm »

I don't understand how anyone could think Les Miles could come here and do better with our talent than he did with LSUs talent ???

Same reason why people think Charlie Strong can win here even though he was a failure at Texas.
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