Hawgon, EastexHawg, Jeff Anderson

[Fan1958]

Let any Bielema/Long supporters make their case!  Holy Toledo...if we lose to Coastal Carolina, Bielema should be fired immediately.  Long will not have the fortitude to do so.  Thus, both will be gone after this season.  Neither one ever bought in to the Arkansas Way!  They both have gone to the SEC trough too often.  The new AD must have an Arkansas connection to restore faith.  The new head coach must be young and not a retread and be able to recruit where it counts...Texas and the Deep South.  There are several candidates for both positions who will garner support immediately and eliminate the negativity and bind the wounds of the Hog nation!  I'm expecting FOR SALE signs in the Long/Bielema front yards.  They are not one of us...make it two!

I count a total of 10 from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. The rest are from Texas and the Deep South.

[texas tush hog]

As long as Jeffie is still here Bielema bashing should be off limits.

[KennyForAD]

Ahem....ummmm...

PRJ

Who cares about that!  Wilson is back in the FAMILY!   Its a great day,  P . R . J!!!  Lets Celebrate

[WilsonHog]

With all due respect to Wilson and all the guys he's congratulating—isn't it a 50/50 proposition as to whether or not a coach will work out? Did they guess right based on a coin flip, or did they truly have some amazing insight into our program and Bielema? Just seems like a hollow victory, if that's how they feel. Now, if we hire Saban and they say he won't work at Arkansas, THEN I'll be impressed!

And let me add that I respect those guys' posts for the most part. I'll also add, I wasn't crazy about the Bielema hire, not because i was opposed to him, just didn't know anything about him. There was time I was thinking he could do it here, and that time has also passed.

It's ironic that you mention Nick Saban. Check out his won/loss records:

Michigan State 34-24-1 (.585)

LSU 48-16 (.750)

Alabama 120-19 (.863)

Why did the same outstanding coach have markedly different results at three P5 programs?

Because at each stop he had better players than at the one before.

[KennyForAD]

Where are you, DJ (notshavintillnutsgone) Shannon?!  Lets party!

[hawgdavis]

Hey, me too Kevin...I'm guilty as all  get out.  I thought he could coach.


Wowzie....boy was I wrong on that one!

Me too. However it changed early last season, then kinda fell back in during the offseason cause I wanted to believe the offseason talk then had concerns during the 1st game and realized during the 1st qtr of TCU I got duped again. I got duped cause I want so badly for the Hogs to get back to contender status, I saw it when I was a kid the whole state was crazy in support and then again under BP it's an awesome feeling and I want it back. We can be at the top and these jack legs come into our state and try to sell us on 6-7 wins is the best we can do here So they need to GTFO now.

[HawgTide]

Being turd is being a turd.

Being correct in hindsight doesn't excuse it.

No doubt

[KennyForAD]

With all due respect to Wilson and all the guys he's congratulating—isn't it a 50/50 proposition as to whether or not a coach will work out? Did they guess right based on a coin flip, or did they truly have some amazing insight into our program and Bielema? Just seems like a hollow victory, if that's how they feel. Now, if we hire Saban and they say he won't work at Arkansas, THEN I'll be impressed!

And let me add that I respect those guys' posts for the most part. I'll also add, I wasn't crazy about the Bielema hire, not because i was opposed to him, just didn't know anything about him. There was time I was thinking he could do it here, and that time has also passed.

Yes!  Welcome.  Cheers!

Yes!  Welcome.  Here's to you...

[casken]

I thought he was a good hire too. I hate that it hasn't worked out.  One thing I'd like to know is what happened after year three. If I recall correctly we were the team no one wanted to play in November. Got stronger and better as the year progressed. Last year seems all the air got let out and men became mice...this year it seems even worse. Not so much in the w's and l's but the demeanor.

[Junkyard Hog]

My initial thought when he was hired was......we can't out-Alabama Alabama. 

I was, however, cautiously optimistic though due to his success at Wiscy.

I'm no longer optimistic.

[KennyForAD]

Where we were...

Where we are...

[TheEnemy]

That's why the board should accept all opinions even if the moderators disagree with them as long as they aren't overly rude or disrespectful.

Hogville was much better before it began trying to shape the narrative and over-moderating.

[KennyForAD]

I thought he was a good hire too. I hate that it hasn't worked out.  One thing I'd like to know is what happened after year three. If I recall correctly we were the team no one wanted to play in November. Got stronger and better as the year progressed. Last year seems all the air got let out and men became mice...this year it seems even worse. Not so much in the w's and l's but the demeanor.

WELCOME ABOARD, BRUTHA!  This train ain't stoppin' till we GET THERE

[BrianG]

Wow...what is a message board if you can't express your opinion.  Glad I wasn't here.
Certainly would not have lasted long.  Moderators like that should turn in their baton.  BTW the Pigs will not lose to Coastal.

[KennyForAD]

Its ... ELECTRIFYING

[ballz2thewall]

you forgot robert shields.

iirc, he was bigly skeptical of cbb and openly hostile to jeff long....

[GoHogs1091]

It's ironic that you mention Nick Saban. Check out his won/loss records:

Michigan State 34-24-1 (.585)

LSU 48-16 (.750)

Alabama 120-19 (.863)

Why did the same outstanding coach have markedly different results at three P5 programs?

Because at each stop he had better players than at the one before.

Saban having better players at each stop is part of it, but Saban didn't start having dominant defenses until after he coached with the following Coach for 1 season at LSU.

http://www.chiefs.com/team/coaches/gary-gibbs/be32eeea-67a7-48df-a167-55d16a99309c

A lot of people think Saban is some coaching savant because he coached with Bill Belichick and George Perles, but Saban's dominant defenses are because of his coaching with Gary Gibbs.

[Dr. Starcs]

That's why the board should accept all opinions even if the moderators disagree with them as long as they aren't overly rude or disrespectful.

Hogville was much better before it began trying to shape the narrative and over-moderating.

[BoynamedWooPigSooie]

Well, I do know I moderated based on my own biases.

So it was you.

[KennyForAD]

Killed 6 more wild hogs last night.  That makes 17 wild razorback hogs I've hunted down and shot since TCU kicked our ass.  My JUJU is working!  Tonight, I'm headed to the bottoms without the gun - just a camera.  Gonna let those HOGS have some peace for little while in honor of you, Wilson.

1)  If anyone thinks I'm lying, then you don't know me.  Someone tell me how to post my pics.  I forgot...

2) Was kidding a little.   I don't go down there unarmed.  I'm taking the gun.  But not gonna kill any.  Hell I might bring em some slop.

Night all!  Its a great day... cya when I get out of the bottoms.  Prolly around dawn

Jeff Long:  If this time shall be anything like the other times...

[The OTR]

I owe each of you an apology, an attaboy, an acknowledgement, whatever you want to call it. Likely a few other posters as well.

Five years ago you trashed the hiring of Bret Bielema, and I ridiculed you for it. Moderated your posts. Issued a few bans. I wanted the Bielema hire to work, and I purposely looked over the fact that the hire was misplaced; good resume, bad fit. Bielema's style of offense can work at places like Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska - but not in the SEC, certainly not at Arkansas with him at the helm. I didn't want to admit it at the time, but it certainly looks like the spread concepts of Petrino, Leach, Briles, etc. gives us the better chance of success. We don't have the recruiting base or the national profile to sign enough athletes to make a more traditional approach work.

As for Jeff Long, I missed the boat on him as well. Great marketer. Very good bean counter. Lousy at negotiating coaching buyouts. I hope his next job is all that he wants it to be, I hope he gets it soon, and I hope his successor has Arkansas roots.

Nice post.  Takes a lot of guts and class to post this and to self evaluate and admit that your own biases may have affected decisions you made.  We all have our own biases and viewpoints.  We all have different ways of expressing ourselves. Some express themselves with anger, some with humor, and even a few with logic and common sense.  It would seem if anything sometimes hogville admins and mods have only allowed posts that directly reflect the current feelings of beliefs of those in charge here.  Some hardheads continue to fight authority and have paid the price with suspensions and being banned.  If anything I think hogville mods and admins underestimate the intelligence of its members.  There are some extremely intelligent posters whose frustration over the contradictions and perceived hypocrisy has caused them to revolt in any variety of ways resulting in various melt downs through the years.  And I think we all understand that your role is to keep some semblance of order here but at times overzealous enforcement of the rules has resulted in dust ups and lost membership. And there is blame on both sides.  Obviously managing this crowd is no easy task. But respecting other points of view and just as importantly respecting everyone's method of expressing themselves is the most important part of this.  Some of us mess around in here and try to keep things light hearted and add some humor to this place because it is better for some of us than spewing forth venom.  And at times that has been thrwarted as hogville decided it was time to draw a line in the sand on anything but serious discussion.  I will admit that there seems to be more tolerance for brevity than there has been in the past and that is a good thing for some of us. 

Wilson you are a smart guy.  You are thoughtful and your posts carry a lot of weight here. Your opinion matters to everyone whether we ageee with it or not. We also know you love the razorbacks and support the coaches, players and university as much as anyone.  I also have watched you waffle back and forth as you are essentially a company man who will give the coaches and administration every chance to be successful before you finally throw in the towel and say enough is enough.  It is obvious you have reached that point.  It has happened to all of us, some long before you did.  Your stuggle and change of heart from week to week here has been a cause of ridicule from some as your sense of logic conflicted with your sense of loyalty.

Being a mod or admin is a thankless job. Thanks for manning up and saying what you said.  I respect that.  Some of us including me owe you and apology, too.  So I'm sorry for being a smart a$$ more than a few times.

Hopefully this coaching thing will work out the way it needs to and hopefully we can all be patient and allow the process to take place (as if we have a choice).

[TheEnemy]

Wow...what is a message board if you can't express your opinion.  Glad I wasn't here.
Certainly would not have lasted long.  Moderators like that should turn in their baton.  BTW the Pigs will not lose to Coastal.

I have been alleged to have been a former member of 10 years and was banned for joking about a moderator bragging about banning posters who disagree with him.

Crazy

[porkrindjimmy]

Nice post.  Takes a lot of guts and class to post this and to self evaluate and admit that your own biases may have affected decisions you made.  We all have our own biases and viewpoints.  We all have different ways of expressing ourselves. Some express themselves with anger, some with humor, and even a few with logic and common sense.  It would seem if anything sometimes hogville admins and mods have only allowed posts that directly reflect the current feelings of beliefs of those in charge here.  Some hardheads continue to fight authority and have paid the price with suspensions and being banned.  If anything I think hogville mods and admins underestimate the intelligence of its members.  There are some extremely intelligent posters whose frustration over the contradictions and perceived hypocrisy has caused them to revolt in any variety of ways resulting in various melt downs through the years.  And I think we all understand that your role is to keep some semblance of order here but at times overzealous enforcement of the rules has resulted in dust ups and lost membership. And there is blame on both sides.  Obviously managing this crowd is no easy task. But respecting other points of view and just as importantly respecting everyone's method of expressing themselves is the most important part of this.  Some of us mess around in here and try to keep things light hearted and add some humor to this place because it is better for some of us than spewing forth venom.  And at times that has been thrwarted as hogville decided it was time to draw a line in the sand on anything but serious discussion.  I will admit that there seems to be more tolerance for brevity than there has been in the past and that is a good thing for some of us. 

Wilson you at a smart guy.  You are thoughtful and your posts carry a lot of weight here. Your opinion matters to everyone whether we ageee with it or not. We also know you love the razorbacks and support the coaches, players and university as much as anyone.  I also have watched you waffle back and forth as you are essentially a company man who will give the coaches and administration every chance to be successful before you finally throw in the towel and say enough is enough.  It is obvious you have reached that point.  It has happened to all of us, some long before you did.  Your stuggle and change of heart from week to week here has been a cause of ridicule from some as your sense of logic conflicted with your sense of loyalty.

Being a mod or admin is a thankless job. Thanks for manning up and saying what you said.  I respect that.  Some of us including me owe you and apology, too.  So I'm sorry for being a smart a$$ more than a few times.

Hopefully this coaching thing will work out the way it needs to and hopefully we can all be patient and allow the process to take place (as if we have a choice).

YES!!!!!

PRJ

[AirWarren]

You banned some very good and correct posters

Yup.

[jkstock04]

Wilson you said it best a year or so back...Arkansas has chewed up and spit out better coaches than Bielema! That was correct then and it's correct now. There is no reason to give this guy all this blind loyalty he has received from the fan base....he hasn't earned here.

This'll get uglier before it's said and done. I have serious doubts Jeff Long has any thoughts as we sit here tonight of going a different direction with the football program.

[GoHogs1091]

Of course

Saban was only a DC in the 80's at Michigan State, and a DC at the Cleveland Browns in the 90's but he really didn't know anything about defense until he worked for one year with Gary Gibbs in 2001.

Well, did Saban have dominant defenses at Michigan State and at the Cleveland Browns?

No, he didn't.

He only started having dominant defenses at LSU after coaching that 1 season with Gibbs.

[KennyForAD]

YES!!!!!

PRJ

Glad you're here. KFAD out..

 

[EastexHawg]

Once my dad got me hooked on Razorback football as a kid it was all-consuming for me.  It's what everyone knew about me, that I was the Texas kid who lived and died with the Hogs.  That was 50 football seasons ago. 

Like a lot of other long time fans, I have found it gut wrenching to see the program go from perennial contender to also-ran.  We seemed to have turned the corner 6-7 years ago after wandering almost 20 years in the SEC wilderness.  I knew as soon as I heard that Long had decided to fire Petrino that our momentum as a program was gone.

There was no special insight involved, just observation and a lot of years, time, and effort spent watching Arkansas.  Petrino had shown us the blueprint for how Arkansas can succeed in the SEC.  It's going to take an outstanding coach to emulate what he demonstrated, but it's a more likely solution than what we've tried the last four-plus years.

And John L. Smith?  Hiring him was one of the most stunningly stupid moves in modern football history.

[WilsonHog]

Nice post.  Takes a lot of guts and class to post this and to self evaluate and admit that your own biases may have affected decisions you made.  We all have our own biases and viewpoints.  We all have different ways of expressing ourselves. Some express themselves with anger, some with humor, and even a few with logic and common sense.  It would seem if anything sometimes hogville admins and mods have only allowed posts that directly reflect the current feelings of beliefs of those in charge here.  Some hardheads continue to fight authority and have paid the price with suspensions and being banned.  If anything I think hogville mods and admins underestimate the intelligence of its members.  There are some extremely intelligent posters whose frustration over the contradictions and perceived hypocrisy has caused them to revolt in any variety of ways resulting in various melt downs through the years.  And I think we all understand that your role is to keep some semblance of order here but at times overzealous enforcement of the rules has resulted in dust ups and lost membership. And there is blame on both sides.  Obviously managing this crowd is no easy task. But respecting other points of view and just as importantly respecting everyone's method of expressing themselves is the most important part of this.  Some of us mess around in here and try to keep things light hearted and add some humor to this place because it is better for some of us than spewing forth venom.  And at times that has been thrwarted as hogville decided it was time to draw a line in the sand on anything but serious discussion.  I will admit that there seems to be more tolerance for brevity than there has been in the past and that is a good thing for some of us. 

Wilson you at a smart guy.  You are thoughtful and your posts carry a lot of weight here. Your opinion matters to everyone whether we ageee with it or not. We also know you love the razorbacks and support the coaches, players and university as much as anyone.  I also have watched you waffle back and forth as you are essentially a company man who will give the coaches and administration every chance to be successful before you finally throw in the towel and say enough is enough.  It is obvious you have reached that point.  It has happened to all of us, some long before you did.  Your stuggle and change of heart from week to week here has been a cause of ridicule from some as your sense of logic conflicted with your sense of loyalty.

Being a mod or admin is a thankless job. Thanks for manning up and saying what you said.  I respect that.  Some of us including me owe you and apology, too.  So I'm sorry for being a smart a$$ more than a few times.

Hopefully this coaching thing will work out the way it needs to and hopefully we can all be patient and allow the process to take place (as if we have a choice).

You're correct; I have always tried to give our coaches every benefit of the doubt so long as nothing occurred off the field. By that same token, I have always tried to give UA the benefit of the doubt in all things. Even when giving that benefit of the doubt hasn't made a whole lot of sense. I place a lot of faith in organizations and in the chain of command.

[hawgmasta]

you forgot robert shields.

iirc, he was bigly skeptical of cbb and openly hostile to jeff long....

Man, you know Robert is editor in chief of The NY Times or Chicago Tribune by now, he ain't got time to be posting pure eloquence on this board.

[GoHogs1091]

LOL!

He started having dominant defenses because he reached a point where he could take top ten level college jobs.




Did he have dominant defenses at the Miami Dolphins?

After working with Gibbs?

His stint with the Miami Dolphins was a lost cause.  Probably not very many Coaches (if any) would have had dominant defenses with that Miami Dolphins roster.  It should be remembered what Saban had to do with one of those Dolphins defensive players.

It should also be remembered when Gary Gibbs was the Defensive Coordinator at Oklahoma, Oklahoma led the nation in Total Defense for 3 consecutive years.

It is obvious who Saban learned how to have a dominant defense from (Gibbs).

[rude1]

The irony to this is that this site started because of the censorship that was going on the popular board at that time on rivals I believe. I was there when guys who wouldn't follow the company line were met with bans and removals, I got my share of bans for it. It was refreshing when I found that this site had been started with the motto of all options are welcome, as the owner and mods understood what it was like over there to not be able to express an opinion that was anything other than all is well.

Not sure when it happened but some where along the line as this site has grown it has become more and more like the site we fled from, where no matter how respectful you are with your opinion if it doesn't follow the all is well position you are targeted for removal. On the other hand the ones who join in the lock step of all is well are treated with kid gloves, as they were allowed to name call and be disrespectful as they chose to be to try and silence opposition. Until the mods get fed up, members must be careful voicing any disdain for the direction headed.

[hogsanity]

It's ironic that you mention Nick Saban. Check out his won/loss records:

Michigan State 34-24-1 (.585)

LSU 48-16 (.750)

Alabama 120-19 (.863)

Why did the same outstanding coach have markedly different results at three P5 programs?

Because at each stop he had better players than at the one before.

But why did he have better players at each stop? Did he get better at recruiting or did he get closer to alot of really really good recruits? OR was it some of both?

[WilsonHog]

The irony to this is that this site started because of the censorship that was going on the popular board at that time on rivals I believe. I was there when guys who wouldn't follow the company line were met with bans and removals, I got my share of bans for it. It was refreshing when I found that this site had been started with the motto of all options are welcome, as the owner and mods understood what it was like over there to not be able to express an opinion that was anything other than all is well.

Not sure when it happened but some where along the line as this site has grown it has become more and more like the site we fled from, where no matter how respectful you are with your opinion if it doesn't follow the all is well position you are targeted for removal. On the other hand the ones who join in the lock step of all is well are treated with kid gloves, as they were allowed to name call and be disrespectful as they chose to be to try and silence opposition. Until the mods get fed up, members must be careful voicing any disdain for the direction headed.

Yes, but a little bit of no, too. I came over here about a month after we opened shop because I was looking for a board where I could talk about the Razorbacks without all the negativity surrounding HDN. One thing I remember distinctly is that the motto of the board I had been a member of was "wear a cup," because it was no holds barred. This was to be a place where that kind of stuff never happened. No need to "wear a cup;" just good, civil discussion about the Razorbacks.

[GoHogs1091]

smh

so you admit his Dolphins sucked, but you won't admit you're wrong

and sure, Gibb's had great defenses at OU with the best players money could buy

Nope, just because Saban didn't have a dominant defense with the Miami Dolphins doesn't mean he didn't learn how to have a dominant defense while at LSU with Gibbs.

There were factors at play at the Miami Dolphins that Saban could not control (i.e., choice of players for the roster).

Saban had a dominant defense at LSU after coaching with Gibbs.

Not a coincidence that he did not have a dominant defense at Michigan State or the Cleveland Browns, but all of the sudden he did at LSU after coaching with Gibbs.

[PonderinHog]

YES!!!!!

PRJ

Don't encourage him!

[TheEnemy]

Yes, but a little bit of no, too. I came over here about a month after we opened shop because I was looking for a board where I could talk about the Razorbacks without all the negativity surrounding HDN. One thing I remember distinctly is that the motto of the board I had been a member of was "wear a cup," because it was no holds barred. This was to be a place where that kind of stuff never happened. No need to "wear a cup;" just good, civil discussion about the Razorbacks.

It's one thing to force civility through moderation just have to be careful not to start forcing opinions and ideas with it.

Most of us love the Razorbacks and just want somewhere to discuss, rant, and question things having to do with the program.

Got to accept the negatives with the positives.

[GoHogs1091]

excuses for the Miami thing - but no excuses for Mich State or Cleveland?

okay, well, it's been fun leading you into this trap..

would you consider the top defense in the NFL as a "dominating defense"?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/opp.htm

Nope, the one-dimensional offenses in the NFL are garbage.

[PonderinHog]

I'm sure that at some point in their lives, Brent Venables screamed at Nick Saban, "I can't coach you!"

[GoHogs1091]

so let's review:

Saban had the number one defense in the NFL in 1994 while being Def Coor of the Cleveland Browns...


but he didn't really become good at defense until he worked with Gary Gibbs in 2001...

Saban's 1994 Cleveland Brown's Defense    Allowed an average of 12.8 points per game.

Saban's 2003 LSU Defense   Allowed an average of 11.0 points per game.

Last time I checked, 11.0 points per game allowed is better than 12.8 points per game allowed.

[GoHogs1091]

wow, wow...



again, that Cleveland Browns defense was the number one defense in the NFL

Doesn't matter.

Cleveland lost 5 games in 1994 while allowing 12.8 points per game.

LSU lost 1 game in 2003 while allowing 11.0 points per game.  LSU won the National Championship in 2003.

LSU 2003 dominant defense   >   Cleveland Browns 1994 non-dominant defense

[wachhog]

...I place a lot of faith in organizations and in the chain of command.

Why?

[BroyledNutts]

Well, I do know I moderated based on my own biases.

So you admit you made a mistake; you were judgmental, prideful, spiteful, stubborn and wrong.

Welcome to the great State of Humanity.
It sucks. You're gonna love it here.

[presidenthog]

Doesn't matter.

Cleveland lost 5 games in 1994 while allowing 12.8 points per game.

LSU lost 1 game in 2003 while allowing 11.0 points per game.  LSU won the National Championship in 2003.

LSU 2003 dominant defense   >   Cleveland Browns 1994 non-dominant defense

Let me break your posting pattern down:

Here is some numbers I googled about a random point in a guy's career. This was an amazing defense, but this one in college where talent is even more lopsided was better by 1.8 points per game. So see how much better he got?

Like your post gave me aids it was so dumb.

[Wild Bill Hog]

As if their heads weren't big enough already...

You mean because time and results have proved them correct?

[WilsonHog]

If the OP is really looking to set things straight, he'll start by kicking to the curb the losers who made it their mission to ostracize anyone clear-minded enough to see the fraud for what it has been long before now.

Like that'll happen.

I am trying to get away from "kicking people to the curb."

[Steef]

You banned some very good and correct posters

Being right or wrong is not a criteria for Moderation.

There have been years of posts from people on both sides of the Bret debate, that crossed the line of forum rules and deserved Moderation.

A good example is tge post by Surfing8 that Wilson just quoted.

[PonderinHog]

the Cleveland Browns and their 1994 Non-Dominant Number One Defense in the NFL


they were Non Dominant

I think it's important to capitalize "Non Dominant Number One"

being Number One sucks

The best defense is a good offense.  Try to keep up.

[riccoar]

Being turd is being a turd.

Being correct in hindsight doesn't excuse it.

This has a lot of truth.  No need to think people get banned for their opinions.  When you over season with arsehole, your opine goes unnoticed, and you might get bant.

[The Kig]

This has a lot of truth.  No need to think people get banned for their opinions.  When you over season with arsehole, your opine goes unnoticed, and you might get bant.

Fine line of separation... Wilson (not all the mods) has said that he may have let his bias influence decisions to ban.  He has come to the conclusion that the CBB hire was not as good as he expected.  There have been people on this site bashing CBB every day for 5 years that haven't been banned.  Why?  Because they (for the most part) didn't get belligerent and cross the line between civil disagreement.  Being an ass and being right doesn't take away from the fact that you're an ass.

Hogville has always been a mix of equally annoying, very vocal sunshine pumpers and darksiders, but the vast majority are simply fans...people who want to see the program suceed.   I would be willing to bet that the population distribution will not change, regardless of who is running the program.