Hawgon, EastexHawg, Jeff Anderson

[Cinco de Hogo]

For all you knuckleheads that Wilson bant, just remember a prophet is never respected in his hometown.

I hope this heps you people, 'cause I like heppin' people.

Well that's a subtle way of saying "just leave", I think I've heard that before. LOL

[Roaringboar]

I really wish this thread would disappear because it really has nothing to do with football at ALL.......it's simply feeding a former moderator's ego......fact is that back a week ago some people started making sound points that a lot of Hogvillians didn't agree with, and the mods chose to overstep their authority and ban those members, insult them, belittle them, and rub it in their face if they didn't go to every single game.......I like Hogville because

1) It's cool to see other people's insights and what they're thinking
2) It's a pretty good gage of what the Razorback fanbase is thinking at one point in time
3) Let's face it, it's just freakin' comical at times......Refering back to the Gruden boards of old

The thing is though that ticked everyone off was when certain mods decided they were going to cut of certain posters simply because they didn't agree with their point of view.......and it's always been like that in the Bielema era.....I didn't post on here at all during the Bielema era because I saw that from a distance and thought it didn't matter what I said, if the mods didn't agree my opinions would be trashed, but after this season started the way it did, I thought surely others had finally seen the light on this one.......but for the most part the mods hadn't, and many still haven't but have to accept it because the Hogville powers are starting to speak out now too.....so you get no sympathy from here.......you tried to use this board as you're own little power trip, and now you're trying to get boo-hoos out of everyone.....way to step up and admit you were wrong......but way to admit you really didn't do anything wrong, you just moderated from your own bias......In other words, you have failed this message board.....now can we get back to football.......

[PonderinHog]

Henceforth, the Bielema Era will now be referred to as the Bielema Error.

[Porked Tongue]

The thing is though that ticked everyone off was when certain mods decided they were going to cut of certain posters simply because they didn't agree with their point of view.......

No.

Distention is all over this board and always has been.  There are always disagreements.

It's the method of delivery and the constant choking of anyone and any thread that wanted to take a half full approach that got people disciplined.  Many persisted and forced their fate by not letting others speak their views.

Let's not pretend some bannings or suspensions were not deserved.  I'd venture most had ample warning and knew they were skating on ice.  Few bannings are spontaneous.

I'm not much on backtracking from what was rightfully done.

[Bebop]

Hoenstly it doesn't even take that long. the progress from year 1 to year 2 (or lack thereof) tells you everything you need to know. the team should be much improved by week 6 of year 2, or at least show enough improvements that the positive trajectory of the program can easily be identified

I agree. I think giving 3 years seemed to be fair to me, even though the signs were already there. I was frustrated at some games even in year one, so it's not like there weren't some tendencies that we couldn't pick up on.

[LZH]

No.

Distention is all over this board and always has been.  There are always disagreements.

It's the method of delivery and the constant choking of anyone and any thread that wanted to take a half full approach that got people disciplined.  Many persisted and forced their fate by not letting others speak their views.

Let's not pretend some bannings or suspensions were not deserved.  I'd venture most had ample warning and knew they were skating on ice.  Few bannings are spontaneous.

I'm not much on backtracking from what was rightfully done.

Gotta agree with this. No one was rougher on BB than me. Actually, looking back 11+ years, after all the out-of-left-field **** I've uttered on here, I've never been banned. Probably because I've argued like hell but stayed away from the personal attacks and name-calling.

[Steef]

Gotta agree with this. No one was rougher on BB than me. Actually, looking back 11+ years, after all the out-of-left-field **** I've uttered on here, I've never been banned. Probably because I've argued like hell but stayed away from the personal attacks and name-calling.

Funny how that works.

[LZH]

Funny how that works.

I reckon I'm just not as creative in that area as others.

[Inhogswetrust]

Unless Long is sent packing along with him, you're correct.

We know your feelings on this topic......no need to tell us over and over and over again.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Funny how that works.

Not always the case.

[HognotinMemphis]

For all you knuckleheads that Wilson bant, just remember a prophet is never respected in his hometown.

I hope this heps you people, 'cause I like heppin' people.

I know you do. You and Nutt have always been in the people heppin' bidness for as far back as I can recall.

[hawgon]

I had a mod actually cuss me in a thread.  I never responded in kind.  But I was banned for "constant negativity".  So spare me the crap about people only being banned who broke the posted rules.

It's okay, Wilson was right in his original post and though he really didn't need to apologize for something so trivial in the grand scheme of things.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

You think after all my post and getting banned, not for breaking forum rules but for arguing too much, that I was taking a stab in the dark huh?   I stated my reasons and thoughts and opinions, me and Ricepig went round and round, funny lately he hasn't even responded to anything I've posted.  I would have been fine with being wrong, I've been a steady since I joined because no matter my opinion I'm a Hog fan.  Nobody owes me an apology I'm me and their them and the world turns.  In all this I only hold a grudge against one person and it's only because he is the face of the problem and that's Jeff Long.  If I knew exactly the ones behind the scenes that orchestrated Bobby Petrino's downfall I would simply recognize Long as a yes man.  Long may have some sense of integrity but he is still just a well paid yes man.  I've almost reduced my posting to comedy because I realize that firing a coach or AD(as bad as they are) will not solve the problems that exist within the PTB.   I've made some seemingly outlandish statements about a problem that started in Dallas but I can't explain it because I don't know "WHO" and even if I did it wouldn't matter.

Wilsonhog you don't owe me anything but one thing, I miss BiggusPiggus posting his football opinions.

I'm curious to see what you based your opinion on the day Bielema was hired?  The only thing that a person can go on is the man's success at his previous job. If you want to bring up x's and o's, fine but the offense never resembled what the naysayers complained and warned us about.  If you posses some sort of supernatural talent that allows you to know that a highly successful coach will be a dud,  you are wasting your talent posting here.

[hawgon]

I'm curious to see what you based your opinion on the day Bielema was hired?  The only thing that a person can go on is the man's success at his previous job. If you want to bring up x's and o's, fine but the offense never resembled what the naysayers complained and warned us about.  If you posses some sort of supernatural talent that allows you to know that a highly successful coach will be a dud,  you are wasting your talent posting here.

I never liked the hire and thought it was ridiculous.  I mean for years on this very board we made fun of the style of Big Ten football that he promised to bring to us.  Hell, we made fun of Wisconsin and Bielema specifically. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I had a mod actually cuss me in a thread.

You deserved it I have no doubt.

I never liked the hire and thought it was ridiculous.  I mean for years on this very board we made fun of the style of Big Ten football that he promised to bring to us.  Hell, we made fun of Wisconsin and Bielema specifically. 

It was a stupid comment then and now.  Too bad he didn't build as Wisconsin was and is built.  We would be much better.  This is his failure. 

[hawgon]

You deserved it I have no doubt.

It was a stupid comment then and now.  Too bad he didn't build as Wisconsin was and is built.  We would be much better.  This is his failure.

Butthurt much?

[Atlhogfan1]

Butthurt much?

Not at all. 

[hawgon]

Not at all.

I don't know, I see a little baboon arse over there.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I'm curious to see what you based your opinion on the day Bielema was hired?  The only thing that a person can go on is the man's success at his previous job. If you want to bring up x's and o's, fine but the offense never resembled what the naysayers complained and warned us about.  If you posses some sort of supernatural talent that allows you to know that a highly successful coach will be a dud,  you are wasting your talent posting here.

It was pretty simple and straightforward, go back and read all the post before you call a person a liar.  People post what they think and believe mostly, if you belittle one train of thought you just as well belittle your own.  I also gave him credit several times for trying to create a more dynamic offense.  At the end of the day it was the two things he was supposed to be good at that failed, O-line and the defense overall.  Even today it's a puzzle but for some not an unexpected puzzle. 

[EastexHawg]

I had a mod actually cuss me in a thread.  I never responded in kind.  But I was banned for "constant negativity".  So spare me the crap about people only being banned who broke the posted rules.

It's okay, Wilson was right in his original post and though he really didn't need to apologize for something so trivial in the grand scheme of things.

I wasn't cussed, I wasn't warned.  I just tried to log on one day and got a message that I had been banned.  I have made it a point over the years to not attack other posters personally or call names.  I may have failed a couple of times, but honestly I usually just read the post and respond to the content without paying attention to who wrote it. 

I would rather be honest...and, or course, right...than make up "positive" stuff in an effort to be liked.  Anyway, that's all water under the bridge and I'm not worried about it or carrying a grudge.  All I care about now is the program I have loved as long as I have known what football is taking the steps necessary to become relevant again.  What has happened to it is a disgrace.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

I never liked the hire and thought it was ridiculous.  I mean for years on this very board we made fun of the style of Big Ten football that he promised to bring to us.  Hell, we made fun of Wisconsin and Bielema specifically.

So the secret to being able to know if a highly successful coach will fail is not liking their style?  Come on.  His Big 10 style actually showed some progress his 2nd season. Granted the offense clicked in 2015 but it's looking like Enos may have benefitted more  from the previous OC'S offensive line coaching than we thought.  So yeah, it appears some were right about Bielema from the start, but I maintain that there was nothing to indicate he'd be a  bust.

[hawgon]

So the secret to being able to know if a highly successful coach will fail is not liking their style?  Come on.  His Big 10 style actually showed some progress his 2nd season. Granted the offense clicked in 2015 but it's looking like Enos may have benefitted more  from the previous OC'S offensive line coaching than we thought.  So yeah, it appears some were right about Bielema from the start, but I maintain that there was nothing to indicate he'd be a  bust.

And you maintain wrongly.  I specifically posted on the day that he was hired that he built his resume and gaudy scoring averages on the Indianas of the Big 10 and that he had more trouble against the better programs.  I specifically stated that he was much like Nutt in that regard.  Others did as well.

[Atlhogfan1]

And you maintain wrongly.  I specifically posted on the day that he was hired that he built his resume and gaudy scoring averages on the Indianas of the Big 10 and that he had more trouble against the better programs.  I specifically stated that he was much like Nutt in that regard.  Others did as well.

Those were good points.  Then did you go on repeating how bad the hire was beating the darn out of those who may have had doubts but were going to give it a chance?  Kind of like a certain poster who whined about Petrino's firing with nearly every post. 

[hawgon]

Those were good points.  Then did you go on repeating how bad the hire was beating the darn out of those who may have had doubts but were going to give it a chance?  Kind of like a certain poster who whined about Petrino's firing with nearly every post.

Sorry for seeing things clearly.

[Inhogswetrust]

I never liked the hire and thought it was ridiculous.  I mean for years on this very board we made fun of the style of Big Ten football that he promised to bring to us.  Hell, we made fun of Wisconsin and Bielema specifically. 

You and some others did but not everybody.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

It was pretty simple and straightforward, go back and read all the post before you call a person a liar.  People post what they think and believe mostly, if you belittle one train of thought you just as well belittle your own.  I also gave him credit several times for trying to create a more dynamic offense.  At the end of the day it was the two things he was supposed to be good at that failed, O-line and the defense overall.  Even today it's a puzzle but for some not an unexpected puzzle.

I guess I'm not making myself clear. My contention is there is no way anyone could know if Bielema would be a bust when we hired him. His resume was as good as it gets. Moving forward, I agree with your assessment that the thing he's suppose to be good at is regressing is a key indicatior, but as I pointed out in another post, the first sign of regression along our offensive front was last season. This along with the Mizzou and VT collapse was the first sign for me that Bret may not workout.  The fact that the line is regressing again this year pretty much seals it for me.

[hawgon]

I guess I'm not making myself clear. My contention is there is no way anyone could know if Bielema would be a bust when we hired him. His resume was as good as it gets. Moving forward, I agree with your assessment that the thing he's suppose to be good at is regressing is a key indicatior, but as I pointed out in another post, the first sign of regression along our offensive front was last season. This along with the Mizzou and VT collapse was the first sign for me that Bret may not workout.  The fact that the line is regressing again this year pretty much seals it for me.

No, the same problems that plague him now were evident in year one beginning at the Rutgers game.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

And you maintain wrongly.  I specifically posted on the day that he was hired that he built his resume and gaudy scoring averages on the Indianas of the Big 10 and that he had more trouble against the better programs.  I specifically stated that he was much like Nutt in that regard.  Others did as well.

Based upon this assessment,  explain Nick Saban.  His record at Michigan St. Paled in comparison and his offensive philosophy was mirrored by Bielema. And taking it a step further, Bielemas offense hasn't resembled Nutts, so that argument is moot.

[hawgon]

Based upon this assessment,  explain Nick Saban.  His record at Michigan St. Paled in comparison and his offensive philosophy was mirrored by Bielema. And taking it a step further, Bielemas offense hasn't resembled Nutts, so that argument is moot.

Nick Saban is smart, hard working, and adaptable.  Bert is none of those things.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

No, the same problems that plague him now were evident in year one beginning at the Rutgers game.

The Rutgers game was his first season taking a finesse offense and transitioning it to a more physical approach. Anyone with eyes could see the improvement of our line play as the season progressed.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

Nick Saban is smart, hard working, and adaptable.  Bert is none of those things.

First I heard that Bielema wasn't hard working. Now, smart and adaptable, I am starting to agree

[farmhawg]

The Rutgers game was his first season taking a finesse offense and transitioning it to a more physical approach. Anyone with eyes could see the improvement of our line play as the season progressed.

And anyone with eyes can see how bad it's regressed ever since that time. Pitiful excuse for a head coach.

[EastexHawg]

Sorry for seeing things clearly.

There is nothing that makes some people madder than proving you are right and they are wrong.  Some of them will even try to maintain that they were really right and you were really wrong, but things just didn't work out the way they should. 

[Mulberry Squeezins]

And anyone with eyes can see how bad it's regressed ever since that time. Pitiful excuse for a head coach.

Last season was the first sign of regression.  I don't care who the hire us, it's highly unlikely to know anything until his 3rd season. Good or bad, for the reasons I've stated, but will repeat. The 3rd season is the first opportunity for the new guy's recruits to begin filling the 2 deep. Any success or failure before the 3rd season should be taken with a degree of scrutiny.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

There is nothing that makes some people madder than proving you are right and they are wrong.  Some of them will even try to maintain that they were really right and you were really wrong, but things just didn't work out the way they should.

I'm not stating I'm right, nor suggesting I was right. Just pointing out that any prediction of failure by people from the outset was a great guess. I remember during the coaching search,  you were highly critical of the possibility of a Franklin hire. I've been consistent from the start. Regardless of my feelings on who we hire, I will take on a wait and see attitude.  In my book, the first indication that this may not work out was the regression of our line play from 15 to 16. The Mizzou game and bowl collapse raised more red flags. I was willing to give this year a chance based upon the hope that the new techniques taught by Anderson would materialize but that hasn't happened. If it makes you feel better about yourself that you were able to assess the success of a new head coach before the first snap of his first game, then knock yourself out. It's not like we hired someone who's W/L didn't warrant a chance to succeed.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

First - It's interesting how this kind of discussion is taking place in this thread.

Second - Where is your basis for the statement bolded above?  What?  1st and 2nd year players get playing time EVERYWHERE.  Clary?

If you want to try and make a case that any failures in Year 1 & 2 for a coach are worth debating, fine. 
We have plenty around here who until recently were still debating/defending/deflecting in Year 5, so by all means throw Year 1 & 2 out. 

The complete Bert body of work in it's utter ineptitude is there for all to see, and we've been tied to it with a large boat anchor.

The program was progressing through year 3.  Maybe you explain to me how someone goes about building a program faced with the kinds of challenges we face?  I'm of the belief that the only way a team can consistently compete at the highest level in the SEC us to either fill the roster with 4 and 5 star kids, or field a team heavily weighted with junior and seniors filling the two deep. Since Arkansas hasn't had a history filling it's roster with 5 star athletes, the logical direction in my mind would be to get kids here and develop them and get to the point that you're replacing graduates with red shirt junior and seniors   

[DeltaBoy]

We all really wanted it to work but it just didn't.  Jeff needs to be canned for the 15 million dollar buyout.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

We all really wanted it to work but it just didn't.  Jeff needs to be canned for the 15 million dollar buyout.

I wish this were true,  unfortunately we have so called fans who's message board persona of being right means more to them than the hogs being successful.

[Atlhogfan1]

We all really wanted it to work but it just didn't.  Jeff needs to be canned for the 15 million dollar buyout.

Don't believe that to be true.  Some latch on to a coach or style and that is all they will accept.  A vocal group wanted some degree of soft spread offense. 

[EastexHawg]

Don't believe that to be true.  Some latch on to a coach or style and that is all they will accept.  A vocal group wanted some degree of soft spread offense. 

There are also people who find a way to blame fans for the failures of the program rather than the multi-millionaires paid to maintain and grow it.  The problem isn't that Long and Bielema are incompetent, it's that some of us have noticed that they are incompetent and said so.  All would be fine if we would just keep quiet and pretend not to notice.

[Atlhogfan1]

There are also people who find a way to blame fans for the failures of the program rather than the multi-millionaires paid to maintain and grow it.  The problem isn't that Long and Bielema are incompetent, it's that some of us have noticed that they are incompetent and said so.  All would be fine if we would just keep quiet and pretend not to notice.

Direct that elsewhere. Fans aren't to blame. Didn't have to keep quiet. 

[GuvHog]

Based upon this assessment,  explain Nick Saban.  His record at Michigan St. Paled in comparison and his offensive philosophy was mirrored by Bielema. And taking it a step further, Bielemas offense hasn't resembled Nutts, so that argument is moot.

Simple. When Saban came from Michigan State to LSU, he quickly realized that his Big 10 style offense wo0uldn't work in the SEC so he changed it and won a national title. He changed Bama's offense from a power offense to a spread and has won multiple national titles.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

Any examples of people asking for a soft spread offense?

So you're saying there are people on here content with watching weekly embarrassment so they can say they were right about Bert.

Wow... here's two examples of bitter on here that don't have anything to do with the program, but just other posters.

Is this where you call me an ass hole again, Atl?

I'm not content. Just saying there were no indications that the program was not progressing before last season.

[Cinco de Hogo]

  I'm not content. Just saying there were no indications that the program was not progressing before last season.

That an opinion that is blatantly wrong.  Some simply gave too much credit for a six game stretch in 2015.  Those miracles hadn't happened before and haven't happened since.

[Mulberry Squeezins]

Simple. When Saban came from Michigan State to LSU, he quickly realized that his Big 10 style offense wo0uldn't work in the SEC so he changed it and won a national title. He changed Bama's offense from a power offense to a spread and has won multiple national titles.

Again,  hindsight is always 2020. Fact. Saban's success didnt stack up to Bielema's. And Bielema did adapt offensively. See Enos. There was absolutely no indication that Bielema wouldn't be a successful coach.   The beef people had centered around his offense.   

[Mulberry Squeezins]

That an opinion that is blatantly wrong.  Some simply gave too much credit for a six game stretch in 2015.  Those miracles hadn't happened before and haven't happened since.

So an ability to divine and or discern the difference between a miracle and a regular win carries a lot of weight with you.  Alrighty.

[EastexHawg]

That an opinion that is blatantly wrong.  Some simply gave too much credit for a six game stretch in 2015.  Those miracles hadn't happened before and haven't happened since.

The Ole Miss win was an almost certifiable miracle.  The Auburn win was only slightly less likely.  No one, including me, is going to try to take those wins away from the team or from Bielema.  But...you can't expect the unlikeliest of circumstances to repeat very many times.

[Grizzlyfan]

It was a stupid comment then and now.  Too bad he didn't build as Wisconsin was and is built.  We would be much better.  This is his failure.

Read the transcript of Barry Alverez' comments to the LR Touchdown Club regarding building a Big 10 team versus building an SEC team.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I got in trouble for panning the Bielema hire too.  Then, after 2014 and the 2015 finish, I thought I might have been wrong.  Now, the reasons I thought he was a bad fit have panned out.  It sucks.  I wish I had been wrong back then and we were riding high.  I wish you guys jumping us for thinking he was a bad hire had been right.  All we can do now is wait for the inevitable...together.

I got a few days to think about my feelings on the BB hire too.  But...after that, I started to actually like him as a person, and HOPED it would work out.  I like to think I'm a rational person, and I do know enough to know that stability can be a good thing and it requires at least a modicum of patience.  Patience...has run out.  Unfortunately, I think we've seen what BB can do here, and it's not working for whatever reason. 

Just to add insult to injury, I was mad that we didn't hire Malzahn.  What's interesting is, for the past two seasons the Auburn faithful have been fed up with him, but now this year he seems to be back on track.  I'm curious to see how his future unfolds, because for a while there, it was looking like he was going to flame out in grand style. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

So an ability to divine and or discern the difference between a miracle and a regular win carries a lot of weight with you.  Alrighty.

Nobody on this board has or ever had super powers.  But yes a lot of fans can discern play on the field.  My statement was hindsight so divine has nothing to do with it any more than your opinion he was going to be a huge success.