Would Arkansas ever join the Big 12?

[Michaelt]

No Big 12

[jbcarol]

At this hopefully brief chapter in its history, Arkansas is fortunate to be in the SEC without a traditional blood-hate rival.  A rival alum with legal background doing the FOI and report would not be nearly as sterile as T-Mac (who obviously is a Hog fan).

[MuskogeeHogFan]

For Arkansas this is not a terrible idea. Everyone knows the arguments against but the arguments for (as stated previously):

1) Geography, Fayetteville is closer to numerous schools in the Big 12 (Mizzou, OSU, OU, KS, etc..) than our closest SEC (Ole Miss), someone ran the numbers as far as mileage and geographically we are much closer to the Big 12 schools.  C
Counterargument to this being Fayetteville is in the NWA corner of the state and those good people in the delta are much closer (geographically and culturally) to Ole Miss, Miss St and AL than we are in the NWA corner.  

2) Tradition.   Most of our traditional rivals are in the Big XXII. Primarily Texas (we get up for them more than any of the teams in the SEC), and aTm.

3) Recruiting. If I remember correctly, when we made the move to the SEC we were told that doing so would open many more opportunities for recruiting in the South, ie. Miss, AL, LA, FL etc... My opinion that has not played out near as well as we hoped, of course there are some athletes we have recruited from those areas but TX is still the main state we recruit outside of AR.  

Obviously, the Big XXII is not of the calibre of the SEC but if Arkansas and LSU went to the Big XXII (the BIG XXII dropping Baylor and IA St) this suddenly puts the two conferences on more equal footing.  

What no one says about the SEC is when you look at the main sport of Football, the Miss schools, Vanderbilt and KY are not consistent powerhouses. You remove LSU (and AR) from the SEC and you have only two consistently strong teams in the West, Auburn and AL.  It could be argued that we become stronger (yes, actually field better teams) by moving to the Big XXII where we are playing year in and year out in TX in front of TX kids. My thoughts are speculative, but this is something I love to think about and discuss with others. 
I believe for now most of us would agree that staying in the SEC is more profitable course of action and allows us more time in front of the television audience, but if a coup that involved us and LSU moving to the Big XXII is fun to think about.

Best to everyone

Happy Easter!

You make some very interesting and literate points. I would absolutely love to see LSU and Arkansas added to the Big 12 with the exit of Iowa State and Baylor. Arkansas would be right at the top of the Big 12 North every year(if we were rid of HDN) and the addition of LSU OR Arkansas to the Big 12 South might make it the toughest sub-conference in college football. Revenue sharing among conference members is a great equalizer and frankly, I think that both schools would benefit greatly by going to the Big 12. LSU, because of their history and heritage, is going nowhere, but Arkansas would be doing themselves and their fans a huge favor in many regards by making this decison to switch conferences. You aren't going to lose that much in terms of revenue sharing and recruiting would get a boost. Rivalries could re-insue with Texas and A&M and new rivalries could spring up between Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska(great fans I might add). I think a change would be nothing but positive, but boy would I prefer to see Arkansas in the Big 12 South.

Just my take.

[NWASooner]

The only thing the SEC has over the Big 12 is that the road trips are superior.  Athens/Oxford > Waco/Stillwater/Lubbock/etc.

Everything else is a wash. 

[ark30inf]

I really don't want to play in that wind-swept tumbleweed conference.  In the SEC we only have one Starkville and in the Big 12 we would have one mose weekends.  Boring to me.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I really don't want to play in that wind-swept tumbleweed conference.  In the SEC we only have one Starkville and in the Big 12 we would have one mose weekends.  Boring to me.

You my friend, are ill informed. Most of the places you play in the Big 12 are nice venues, with the exception of Texas Tech and even then, the new stadium is pretty nice though the wind blows like crazy. Tumbleweed conference? Not likely. Get your facts straight and check out the venues. It is as nice as anything MSU, Auburn, S. Carolina or Alabama have to offer or more so.

Just my take.

[rcowen]

Forget the big 12. Why would we leave the SEC? Best conference in the nation baby!

[riccoar]

Forget the big 12. Why would we leave the SEC? Best conference in the nation baby!

Ditto.  These threads pop-up once a month.  SEC is simply a better conference, period.

[HouTxRzbck]

I live in Big 12 country and I think it is a step down from the SEC.  I would rather watch paint dry then watch Big 12 sports.  Arkansas makes too much money in the SEC and would not get the same return in the Big 12.  It would be a bad idea to move.

[rad1ation]

The only thing the SEC has over the Big 12 is that the road trips are superior.  Athens/Oxford > Waco/Stillwater/Lubbock/etc.

Everything else is a wash. 

make that Athens/Oxford > Waco/Norman/Lubbock and I will buy that argument...

[hogfan47]

A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

The big 12 would have been great right out of the old SWC .
but why down grade conferences .
Does not make sense

[jbcarol]

The only thing the SEC has over the Big 12 is that the road trips are superior.  Athens/Oxford > Waco/Stillwater/Lubbock/etc.

Everything else is a wash. 

make that Athens/Oxford > Waco/Norman/Lubbock and I will buy that argument...

Isn't there a watering hole in Stillwater ?

[NWASooner]

If anyone thinks Stillwater > Norman, you're sadly mistaken. 

Stillwater = Starkville

[discombobulationist]

I think we should have an SEC/Big 12 Challenge every year in basketball and football. If we did something similar to what the Big Ten and ACC do in preseason BB, but do it in both sports, that would be awesome! You could seed the teams according to their previous year's record and we could battle it out for bragging rights.

[HouTxRzbck]

If anyone thinks Stillwater > Norman, you're sadly mistaken. 

Stillwater = Starkville

I went to OU too and Norman is a bad ass place to live.  It reminds me of Fayetteville without the hills.  Don't even compare Norman to Stillwater.  It's not close.

[rad1ation]

If anyone thinks Stillwater > Norman, you're sadly mistaken. 

Stillwater = Starkville

Norman is a hole, any town that you can drive through and not even know there is a university is a hole. Norman is nothing more than a suburb of OKC, with a nightlife that doesn't even rival the craphole called bricktown in OKC. That was a huge waste of taxpayer money. The only people that like Norman are Sooner fans.

edited to remove my juv. namecalling

[NWASooner]

Unlike most towns in Arkansas, Norman is big enough to have a "bad part."  West Norman is nice but it's a suburb.  East of I-35 generally sucks unless it's around the school, which is a very nice part.  Far east Norman eats ass.

It's totally different than Fayetteville, which is an isolated college town.  I like Fayetteville a lot, actually, but it's totally different than Norman, which is a suburb with a large university on one side of town.

I'd also like to hear how Bricktown was a waste of tax money, considering OKC has already made it's money back from that.  That should be an interesting explanation.

[PaleHorse]

better idea..  just make the SEC even better.  Add Lousiville to the West and Georgia Tech or florida State to the east.

Even though i don't think we should - If we did go to the Big 12 they should just add teams to each division.  Arkansas to the south and a school like Utah (I dunno) to the North




and for the guy that said Wisconsin.. there is no way a team leaves the Big10 for the Big12.  just like a team would be stupid to leave the SEC

[rad1ation]

Unlike most towns in Arkansas, Norman is big enough to have a "bad part."  West Norman is nice but it's a suburb.  East of I-35 generally sucks unless it's around the school, which is a very nice part.  Far east Norman eats ass.

It's totally different than Fayetteville, which is an isolated college town.  I like Fayetteville a lot, actually, but it's totally different than Norman, which is a suburb with a large university on one side of town.

I'd also like to hear how Bricktown was a waste of tax money, considering OKC has already made it's money back from that.  That should be an interesting explanation.

The city hasn't even come close to breaking even on Bricktown. The MAPS tax hung around way longer than proposed and the loans and consessions given to bring business to BTown and build the canal aren't even close to being "paid off". That is a well known fact for people who choose to look at the whole picture and not just what the DOK tells them.

edited to add that some good things have come out of MAPS and MAPS 4 Kids, but Bricktown isn't one of them.

[NWASooner]

Bricktown totally blew up.  Where there used to be empty warehouses and a Spaghetti Warehouse, there is now construction not seen in OKC since the oil boom.  It's been a big sales tax generator and with the hotels being built, that will only add to it.

OKC can also legitimately campaign for an NBA team now.  I never thought they could support a pro sports team but they did quite well.

[rad1ation]

Bricktown totally blew up.  Where there used to be empty warehouses and a Spaghetti Warehouse, there is now construction not seen in OKC since the oil boom.  It's been a big sales tax generator and with the hotels being built, that will only add to it.

OKC can also legitimately campaign for an NBA team now.  I never thought they could support a pro sports team but they did quite well.

How about the increased crime rate it brought to downtown OKC? Don't confuse the hotels, ford center and myriad turned cox convention center as bricktown. Have they even finished the first hotel actually in bricktown yet? No doubt it will all be nice when finished, but there were much better things for the city that the taxpayer money could have gone to.

[HawgAlude]

we are competitive in the SEC west and will never leave...

[CORZRBACKFAN]

As mentioned previously, it is a great idea geographically and traditionally (rivalries with the old SWC schools). Fiscally, you don't leave the SEC. As a Big XII alum (Colorado), the conference has been a disappointment when compared to the Big 8. The Texans want things their way, the Big 8 schools wanted it another way. What you end up with is the least cohesive BCS conference out there. The Big 8 was a much better conference in my opinion, and I miss it. Travel in the Big XII generally sucks, and SEC schools are vastly better tradition-wise. We definitely one-upped the Texans on the move to the SEC....

[The real Hogules]

I'd rather have my nuts stapled to the floor than join the Little 12.

If we'd just hire real coaches, then we would be able to compete in the SEC (a MUCH better conference top to bottom than the Little 12) and this type of question wouldn't come up nearly as often.

I hate Texas and Oklahoma (the states as well as the teams) and don't really want to be associated with them any more than is absolutely necessary.

[NWASooner]

Bricktown totally blew up.  Where there used to be empty warehouses and a Spaghetti Warehouse, there is now construction not seen in OKC since the oil boom.  It's been a big sales tax generator and with the hotels being built, that will only add to it.

OKC can also legitimately campaign for an NBA team now.  I never thought they could support a pro sports team but they did quite well.

How about the increased crime rate it brought to downtown OKC? Don't confuse the hotels, ford center and myriad turned cox convention center as bricktown. Have they even finished the first hotel actually in bricktown yet? No doubt it will all be nice when finished, but there were much better things for the city that the taxpayer money could have gone to.

How can you not throw the Ford Center and such in there?  It was part of MAPS.

Of course crime went up in Bricktown.  There was nobody there before.

[Puerco Diablo]

A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

Impossible. Never happen.  The SEC is the better conference all around.  Though Arkansas in the big 12 would be interesting.

[rad1ation]

Bricktown totally blew up.  Where there used to be empty warehouses and a Spaghetti Warehouse, there is now construction not seen in OKC since the oil boom.  It's been a big sales tax generator and with the hotels being built, that will only add to it.

OKC can also legitimately campaign for an NBA team now.  I never thought they could support a pro sports team but they did quite well.

How about the increased crime rate it brought to downtown OKC? Don't confuse the hotels, ford center and myriad turned cox convention center as bricktown. Have they even finished the first hotel actually in bricktown yet? No doubt it will all be nice when finished, but there were much better things for the city that the taxpayer money could have gone to.

How can you not throw the Ford Center and such in there?  It was part of MAPS.

Of course crime went up in Bricktown.  There was nobody there before.

MAPS was a tax for "improvements" to the metro area, not just btown. Cox Center, Ford Center, and the new and revitalized hotels are west of the railroad tracks. Bricktown is east of the railroad tracks. My question was about crime for downtown okc where people work, not bricktown. The area referred to as Bricktown was called that long before the influx of monies from MAPS and the mayors bond program.

If you want to add in the rest of the MAPS projects, we will all be dead before the city breaks even.

[HOG71]

A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

Impossible. Never happen.  The SEC is the better conference all around.  Though Arkansas in the big 12 would be interesting.

More wins maybe, but ask OU where a weak conference schedule will get you.  Sure you will get the nod for a BCS bowl, then get embarrassed by USC, Boise, LSU. 

This has looked the same(maybe a spot or 2) over the past 4-5 years.  Without Big12 blinders on, this is what it looks like to everyone else.  Barely nudged past the MVC this year.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc0607.htm

[Newport Hog]

Why would LSU move out of the SEC LOL makes no sense, they are kind of like the Kings of the West for the most part.

[Newport Hog]

Also the SEC is awesome, Big 12 teams sort of sux so heck no, I want to stay in the SEC.

[ldchil1]

A different / weaker conference won't fix admin. troubles in the athletic dept.
I'm ready to see positive things happen in the offices up there and move on from being a middle of the road team in the SEC to being a true contender every year. Maybe this will happen when they can stop worrying about Franks legacy and begin to take care of the business of winning championships. Not just stumbling into championship games, but WINNING them! Go Hogs!!!!

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

A different / weaker conference won't fix admin. troubles in the athletic dept.
I'm ready to see positive things happen in the offices up there and move on from being a middle of the road team in the SEC to being a true contender every year. Maybe this will happen when they can stop worrying about Franks legacy and begin to take care of the business of winning championships. Not just stumbling into championship games, but WINNING them! Go Hogs!!!!

I'm with you in wanting to see positive things in the offices on the hill.  However, they have to acknowledge that there is a problem before anything positive can happen.  Every time a new wave of sleaze oozes forward, JW and the BOT all link arms and profess their support for the Nuttster!

[BluegrassRazorback]

All Arkansas neds to compete in the SEC is leadership - the fans - the facilities are there - the leadership has not been IMHO -

The Big XII - is not good for Arkansas - for one thing the $$$ is not there

Some Big XII folks esply in Tx want Ark back but the reality they are now and always have been a drag on Arkansas and have held us back.

BTW: for fans under 25 - texas is an old memory and they would rather play and beat bama, LSU , Florida or Tenn - this is a good thing - our exes are swell'en and dwell'en in texas 

Now - in the SEc Arkansas is in the right place and has the foundation to be a serious dark horse year in and out in the SEC -
All thats needed is leadership that is no longer bound by the attitude we are little Arkansas and whose coaching time was primarly at 2nd teir programs with blue fields or with cowboys wearing orange-

Change is coming - its needed and I hope for the best

[samurai]

Its just not the TV money which is the best in the nation for the SEC its also the number of teams that the sec sends to major bowls and the share of that money too. I would love it but the money says we have to stay where we are

[Marat]

I thought I'd share this link from another thread since it applies. It compares the SEC with the Big 12. SEC dominates.

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=4901571&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1