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How many scholarships do we have to give

Started by Highway Hog Sign, December 14, 2017, 09:08:01 am

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Highway Hog Sign

What's the word on the number of scholarships available for this class? I've heard only 11 but I have to believe it's higher than that
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Uncommon

December 14, 2017, 09:12:31 am #1 Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:15:51 am by Uncommon
Quote from: Highway Hog Sign on December 14, 2017, 09:08:01 am
What's the word on the number of scholarships available for this class? I've heard only 11 but I have to believe it's higher than that
That is correct.  We had 12 scholarship seniors leave while Ty Clary and Hayden Henry were put on scholarship since they are blueshirts.  So we'll definitely sign at least 15.  That number will go up with transfers.  If we sign more than 15 and there are no transfers, the numbers will "have to work themselves out" in the Spring.

 

colbs

Biddy said yesterday that they only have 9 spots(10 with Hedlund leaving) if no one transfers out.  We all knew some would transfer out but it will be interesting how many will sign.

Hugo Bezdek

I'll be surprised if we don't sign a full class (counting Clary and Henry). I imagine that anyone who isn't all-in will get assistance in finding a suitable landing place elsewhere. There's always at least some attrition no matter what, but there will be more with a coaching change.

colbs

Maybe but I just don't see them signing more than 20.  If Biddy's numbers are right then 16 players would have to transfer to get to 25.

Uncommon

Quote from: colbs on December 14, 2017, 09:37:33 am
If Biddy's numbers are right then 16 players would have to transfer to get to 25.
They're a little off but not by much.  Especially when he said there was about 15 scholarship players from Texas that were currently on the roster and going to be on next year's team at the introductory press conference.  That was just false.  It's less than 10.

1.   Maleek Barkley
2.   Kofi Boateng
3.   Chevin Calloway
4.   Nate Dalton
5.   Jonathan Marshall
6.   Zach Rogers
7.   Micahh Smith
8.   Devwah Whaley

ricepig

Quote from: Uncommon on December 14, 2017, 09:43:10 am
They're a little off but not by much.  Especially when he said there was about 15 scholarship players from Texas.  That was just false.  It's less than 10.

1.   Maleek Barkley
2.   Kofi Boateng
3.   Chevin Calloway
4.   Nate Dalton
5.   Jonathan Marshall
6.   Zach Rogers
7.   Micahh Smith
8.   Devwah Whaley

I think we are at 75 on returning scholarship players counting Henry and Clary. If Hedlund does indeed leave, that leaves room for 11. I'm sure we'll have some leave between semesters, and after spring practice, the question is, how many does he over sign??

Uncommon

Quote from: ricepig on December 14, 2017, 09:48:08 am
I think we are at 75 on returning scholarship players counting Henry and Clary. If Hedlund does indeed leave, that leaves room for 11. I'm sure we'll have some leave between semesters, and after spring practice, the question is, how many does he over sign??
I thought you told me Hedlund was leaving in another thread.  Anyway, 75 current scholarship players is correct.  I think you should sign at least 5 over your limit to be better safe than sorry when it comes to transfers.  So, I'd put our number at at least 15 right now.  16 if Hedlund hangs it up.  And with mid-term transfers, maybe the numbers goes up to 19 or more.  I don't see us signing over 20.  I think 20 is the max.

ricepig

Quote from: Uncommon on December 14, 2017, 09:53:06 am
I thought you told me Hedlund was leaving in another thread.  Anyway, 75 current scholarship players is correct.  I think you should sign at least 5 over your limit to be better safe than sorry when it comes to transfers.  So, I'd put our number at at least 15 right now.  16 if Hedlund hangs it up.  And with mid-term transfers, maybe the numbers goes up to 19 or more.  I don't see us signing over 20.  I think 20 is the max.

I'm told he is leaving, but until someone does, you can't say anything for sure. I suspect around 15ish, they'll sign 9-10 next Wednesday and concentrate on 5-6 for the February signing period.

tbhogfan

We need to get as much talent for the new system as possible.   
Go Hogs!

Highway Hog Sign

Quote from: Uncommon on December 14, 2017, 09:12:31 am
That is correct.  We had 12 scholarship seniors and Cole Hedlund leave while Ty Clary and Hayden Henry were put on scholarship since they are blueshirts.  So we'll definitely sign at least 16.  That number will go up with transfers.  If we sign more than 16 and there are no transfers, the numbers will "have to work themselves out" in the Spring.

I hope they get at least 15 signed. You would think there will be some players who don't fit the system and go somewhere that is a better opportunity for them.
The best Razorback recruiting breakdown on the Internet (and it's FREE): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xx_dGJc2FHXQHuqZDtmA_OQ4LbZBnXAwmNcPzRErpPU/edit?usp=sharing

jgphillips3

We have had 12 commits, off an on, for a while.  Seems like both Bielema and Morris are pretty sure they have 12 to give.  I guess we'll see who gets told to move on or feels they no longer fit.  I suspect we'll sign between 12-14 during the early period and then see what happens prior to the later signing period if we still have slots.

lakecityhog

Based on lots of new offers to 2019 and 2020 kids I would say that we are done for the early period and have very few left for the signing day.

Even though we have 13 scholarship receivers on the roster who would you nudge towards the door? 3 are jucos with 1 year left, 1 senior that could possibly get a medical and the rest are Arkansas or Texas kids. 7 are freshmen or RS freshmen, man unless some kids just see the writing on the wall and opt out this could be tough.

Linebacker is pretty full, but several could be walk-ons and a couple could be moved to DE if we getaway from the 3-4 look.

 

Großer Kriegschwein

Right now there are players that nobody on the new staff knew were on scholarship.

The actual number of scholarships available right now is a fluid situation apparently.

Just seems strange to me.
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Pig in the Pokey

I bet we trim some fat. In fact i guarantee you we will trim some fat. And we'll sign at least 18 imo.

hedlund and story are two, but there are others who havent and will never see the field here with whom i could see us parting ways.
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Seebs

We will sign close to 25 in my opinion and cull the herd in the spring. Tryouts if you will.  Story is leaving methinks. Grad transfer.
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Hugo Bezdek

The truth is scholarships are awarded/renewed annually. If you're not doing the things you need to do, or you're not performing at a level that helps the team succeed, you stand to lose your scholarship. That holds true for most scholarships. If you're on an academic scholarship you have to keep a certain GPA and hours toward your degree.

ricepig

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on December 15, 2017, 03:19:27 pm
The truth is scholarships are awarded/renewed annually. If you're not doing the things you need to do, or you're not performing at a level that helps the team succeed, you stand to lose your scholarship. That holds true for most scholarships. If you're on an academic scholarship you have to keep a certain GPA and hours toward your degree.

The truth is, starting in 2015 the P5 schools voted to make them 4 year guarantees. The SEC and Big 12?? voted against it, but it passed. You can not cut players based on athletic stipulations, only academic or violating athletic department policy.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/power-5-ncaa-schools-vote-new-scholarship-concussion-proposals-autonomy/mdv2pvwbc6py1e6v16tsa0ew8

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: ricepig on December 15, 2017, 03:26:48 pm
The truth is, starting in 2015 the P5 schools voted to make them 4 year guarantees. The SEC and Big 12?? voted against it, but it passed. You can not cut players based on athletic stipulations, only academic or violating athletic department policy.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/power-5-ncaa-schools-vote-new-scholarship-concussion-proposals-autonomy/mdv2pvwbc6py1e6v16tsa0ew8

It was my understanding that the 4-year scholarships are optional. Do they still count against the 85 limit if they're removed from the roster?

ricepig

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on December 15, 2017, 03:40:59 pm
It was my understanding that the 4-year scholarships are optional. Do they still count against the 85 limit if they're removed from the roster?
No option to them at P5 schools, they are guaranteed. No, if someone is removed they no longer count.

In another significant change, the schools and the reps narrowly approved legislation that will prevent schools and coaches from choosing not to renew an athlete's scholarship for athletic reasons. Under the system that has been in place, most athletic scholarships are subject to annual renewal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/17/ncaa-convention-cost-of-attendance-student-athletes-scholarships/21921073/

BoynamedWooPigSooie

25.


What you're looking for is how many current players are gonna get processed off the roster to make room for incoming recruits and how many will we sign to get to a full 85. How you manage the roster is what determines your number for signees, but 25 can be signed a year under SEC rules.

I think there are couple blueshirts that will count against this class. IIRC those are Tyler Hall, Dylan Hays, Ty Clary and Hayden Henry.

Looking at the roster here's a few logical names we might think are in play to move on.

Just listed alphabetically

Kofi Boateng
Terrell Collins
Nate Dalton
Deon Edwards
Cole Hedlund (I'd offer to let him stay but as a walkon, his scholarship is needed elsewhere)
Korey Hernandez
Kendrick Jackson (moving back to ILB might be an option)
Jack Kraus
Deion Malone
Derrick Munson
Josh Paul
Micahh Smith
Michael Taylor
Dee Walker


Now I hope all the players wait to make decisions on their future until they go through Spring Practices.  Gotta think new coach will give some of them new opportunities and a fresh new start to show what they can do.  I won't be surprised if 5 or 6 move on, maybe more.  There's gonna be kids that just don't have the talent or the tools to play the way CCM wants and demands.  Michael Woods is already better than 1/2 of our WR room.
Hogville's resident uniform designer.

lakecityhog

Arkansas has 75?? players on scholarship currently enrolled. (If anyone sees an error please post)

Scholarship Numbers by Position
QB (3) - Ty Storey, Cole Kelley and Daulton Hyatt

RB (4) - Devwah Whaley, Maleek Williams and Chase Hayden, TJ Hammonds

FB (2) - Kendrick Jackson and Hayden Johnson

WR (11) - Jared Cornelius (X), Jonathan Nance (X), Brandon Martin (X), LaMichael Pettway (X), Deon Stewart (Z),  Kofi Boateng (Z), Jordan Jones (Z), Maleek Barkley, Jarrod Barnes, Koilan Jackson and DeVion Warren

TE (6) - Jack Kraus, Jeremy Patton, Austin Cantrell, Will Gragg, Cheyenne O'Grady and Grayson Gunter

OL (11) -Johnny Gibson (RG), Deion Malone (LG), Brian Wallace (RT), Hjalte Froholdt (LG), Zach Rogers (C), Colton Jackson (LT), Jalen Merrick (RG), Jake Heinrich (LG), Kirby Adcock (RG), Shane Clenin (LT) and Dalton Wagner (RT)

NG (2) - Austin Capps and Dylan Hays

DE ( 8 ) - Jake Hall, Michael Taylor, Armon Watts, T.J. Smith, McTelvin Agim, Briston Guidry, Jonathan Marshall and David Porter

OLB (6) -  Randy Ramsey (RZ), Jamario Bell (H), Gabe Richardson (H), Alexy Jean-Baptiste (RZ), Derrick Munson (RZ) and J.Paul (OLB)

ILB (5) - Dre Greenlaw (W), De'jon Harris (M), Giovanni LaFrance (-), Dee Walker (W) and Kyrei Fisher (W)

CB ( 8 ) - Ryan Pulley, Nate Dalton, Britto Tutt, Chevin Calloway, Kamren Curl, Jordon Curtis, Korey Hernandez and Jarques McClellion

S (5) - Santos Ramirez (S), Reid Miller (F), Deon Edwards (F), Micahh Smith (S) and Montaric Brown

K (1) - Cole Hedlund

P (1) - Blake Johnson
SNP (0) -

With 11 commits it looks like we are already over the 85 so how do we add more recruits? We would need 8 to 10 guys to leave or lose their scholarship. Personally I would hate to see kids forced out like Bama does. If we give a kid a scholarship and he comes in and does the work, keeps his nose clean and excels in the classroom he has lived up to his end of the agreement and we should live up to ours.

Cornelius is counted in the 75, he may or may not be back. Another that could possibly return is Karl Roesler. I think we already owe a couple of scholarships to Clary and Henry, right? Did Morgan earn a scholarship with his play this year? That could be as many as 4 from the 10 we have available.

It has been rumored for a while that Hedlund will leave, with the same rumor for Storey. Would we consider rescinding some of the scholarships awarded to former walk-ons?

We have 11 receivers, maybe a couple too many? We have 13 DB's which is more than likely too many  and 11 linebackers, again maybe 1 or 2 heavy. Can we afford to see kids at thinner positions leave?

Tim Harris

If my understanding of how scholarships work is correct then right now the only number that matters is how many are we under the 85.  That is how many kids we can sign in the early signing period and be here for spring practice.  The rest of the kids that won't be here until summer won't count against the 85 until then so we would have time to go through spring practice and see who fits and who doesn't.  I know that many don't like it but if you want to play SEC level football that is part of the game.  The majority of the elite programs are going to sign close to a full class every year meaning there will be some who have to move on.

Tim Harris

Quote from: lakecityhog on December 17, 2017, 11:40:02 am
Arkansas has 75?? players on scholarship currently enrolled. (If anyone sees an error please post)

Scholarship Numbers by Position
QB (3) - Ty Storey, Cole Kelley and Daulton Hyatt

RB (4) - Devwah Whaley, Maleek Williams and Chase Hayden, TJ Hammonds

FB (2) - Kendrick Jackson and Hayden Johnson

WR (11) - Jared Cornelius (X), Jonathan Nance (X), Brandon Martin (X), LaMichael Pettway (X), Deon Stewart (Z),  Kofi Boateng (Z), Jordan Jones (Z), Maleek Barkley, Jarrod Barnes, Koilan Jackson and DeVion Warren

TE (6) - Jack Kraus, Jeremy Patton, Austin Cantrell, Will Gragg, Cheyenne O'Grady and Grayson Gunter

OL (11) -Johnny Gibson (RG), Deion Malone (LG), Brian Wallace (RT), Hjalte Froholdt (LG), Zach Rogers (C), Colton Jackson (LT), Jalen Merrick (RG), Jake Heinrich (LG), Kirby Adcock (RG), Shane Clenin (LT) and Dalton Wagner (RT)

NG (2) - Austin Capps and Dylan Hays

DE ( 8 ) - Jake Hall, Michael Taylor, Armon Watts, T.J. Smith, McTelvin Agim, Briston Guidry, Jonathan Marshall and David Porter

OLB (6) -  Randy Ramsey (RZ), Jamario Bell (H), Gabe Richardson (H), Alexy Jean-Baptiste (RZ), Derrick Munson (RZ) and J.Paul (OLB)

ILB (5) - Dre Greenlaw (W), De'jon Harris (M), Giovanni LaFrance (-), Dee Walker (W) and Kyrei Fisher (W)

CB ( 8 ) - Ryan Pulley, Nate Dalton, Britto Tutt, Chevin Calloway, Kamren Curl, Jordon Curtis, Korey Hernandez and Jarques McClellion

S (5) - Santos Ramirez (S), Reid Miller (F), Deon Edwards (F), Micahh Smith (S) and Montaric Brown

K (1) - Cole Hedlund

P (1) - Blake Johnson
SNP (0) -

With 11 commits it looks like we are already over the 85 so how do we add more recruits? We would need 8 to 10 guys to leave or lose their scholarship. Personally I would hate to see kids forced out like Bama does. If we give a kid a scholarship and he comes in and does the work, keeps his nose clean and excels in the classroom he has lived up to his end of the agreement and we should live up to ours.

Cornelius is counted in the 75, he may or may not be back. Another that could possibly return is Karl Roesler. I think we already owe a couple of scholarships to Clary and Henry, right? Did Morgan earn a scholarship with his play this year? That could be as many as 4 from the 10 we have available.

It has been rumored for a while that Hedlund will leave, with the same rumor for Storey. Would we consider rescinding some of the scholarships awarded to former walk-ons?

We have 11 receivers, maybe a couple too many? We have 13 DB's which is more than likely too many  and 11 linebackers, again maybe 1 or 2 heavy. Can we afford to see kids at thinner positions leave?


I don't have a way to see who was on scholarship at SMU and who was a walk on but it would be good to see how the roster was broke up there.  Since he had been there 3 years you have to assume he would have that roster molded to what he wanted.  When I look at their roster I see only 6 RB total with none labeled as a FB.  The biggest RB they have on the roster is 5'11, 207.

 

blu

I went through your numbers twice and what you have listed are 73 players. Clary and Henry will get two more - so that puts us as 75, with 10 to give as of right now. Is Limpert a Sr? If not, he may be another who will get a scholly. And I thought we had another kicker, Mazza or something like that.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Given this staff is way behind the 8 ball with this class, I just don't see them trimming too much fat in hopes of significantly increasing the numbers for this class.  They're likely not going to get most of the guys they truly want, so no point in reaching just to fill space. 

Focus on 2019 instead.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

lakecityhog

blu, I went thru it and came up with 73 too. My assumption was Clary and Henry to make it 75.

That still puts us over the 85 with 11 commits currently IF all sign early. My guess is that Morris will only sign early the kids that can actually enroll for classes. We may be at an even dozen depending on Gooden's status. Several people have him as a de-commit, but according to him he is still committed.

lakecityhog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on December 17, 2017, 01:55:23 pm
Given this staff is way behind the 8 ball with this class, I just don't see them trimming too much fat in hopes of significantly increasing the numbers for this class.  They're likely not going to get most of the guys they truly want, so no point in reaching just to fill space. 

Focus on 2019 instead.

If we sign all of our currently committed kids on the 20th we would have no one to sign in February, would that be unreal??? Here is what blows my mind, we could bring in 3 new QB's in a class this small!!!

ricepig

Quote from: lakecityhog on December 17, 2017, 02:03:42 pm
blu, I went thru it and came up with 73 too. My assumption was Clary and Henry to make it 75.

That still puts us over the 85 with 11 commits currently IF all sign early. My guess is that Morris will only sign early the kids that can actually enroll for classes. We may be at an even dozen depending on Gooden's status. Several people have him as a de-commit, but according to him he is still committed.


Gooden isn't coming, he still has two course to pass to be eligible at a SEC school, there's a reason he still isn't being recruited by the bigger schools.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: lakecityhog on December 17, 2017, 02:06:14 pm
If we sign all of our currently committed kids on the 20th we would have no one to sign in February, would that be unreal??? Here is what blows my mind, we could bring in 3 new QB's in a class this small!!!

I bet we don't bring in 3 QB's.  And I bet we don't sign all the commits on the 20th either. 

Anywho, we should temper our expectations for this class IMO.  Such very likely won't be impressive.  2019 can't get here soon enough.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

lakecityhog

Noland is already committed, Jones is a legacy and we all know that Bohannon is a lock for a scholarship if he wants it. Jones is being offered a blue shirt deal I think. So who gets left out?

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: lakecityhog on December 17, 2017, 02:31:27 pm
Noland is already committed, Jones is a legacy and we all know that Bohannon is a lock for a scholarship if he wants it. Jones is being offered a blue shirt deal I think. So who gets left out?

I'm not counting a blue shirt, because such doesn't count against the 2018 class.  And Bohannon has a scholarship, but I'm not convinced he's taking it.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Dominicanhog

Recapping 4 days of this thread, it looks as though we have 10-11 spots, we'll sign 9-10 early and wait on Feb to sign some more, after we've had a chance to see who leaves... see also 12/14 @ 9:48...

lakecityhog

Well we signed 7 today + 75 currently on scholarship = 82. So it now looks like we have 3 to give if we keep everyone, which seems to be doubtful.

In his signing presser Morris is looking to pick up 1 maybe 2 by Friday and then is looking at 6 to 8 for February. If we get 2 this week and 8 in February we will need 7 scholarships to open up.

My best guess is this:
1 Kicker
1 QB
2 WR
1 TE
1 LB and
1DB

This will consist of 1 and maybe 2 grad transfers, former walk-on's losing scholarships, a few transfers due to people just seeing the writing on the wall. We might even see a couple of extra guys opt out due to the more rigorous demands of the off-season programs and knowing that it will only get harder in the Spring.

JIHawg

Attrition will determine how many scholarships we have available.  If our coaches plan to do a lot of weeding out, we have more scholarships.  If the coaches like what they see, and keep most of the players now on scholarship, we have less scholarships.  It's that simple.  Right now we have 10 to 15 available. 

East TN HAWG

Quote from: BoynamedWooPigSooie on December 15, 2017, 06:18:18 pm
25.


What you're looking for is how many current players are gonna get processed off the roster to make room for incoming recruits and how many will we sign to get to a full 85. How you manage the roster is what determines your number for signees, but 25 can be signed a year under SEC rules.

I think there are couple blueshirts that will count against this class. IIRC those are Tyler Hall, Dylan Hays, Ty Clary and Hayden Henry.

Looking at the roster here's a few logical names we might think are in play to move on.

Just listed alphabetically

Kofi Boateng
Terrell Collins
Nate Dalton
Deon Edwards
Cole Hedlund (I'd offer to let him stay but as a walkon, his scholarship is needed elsewhere)
Korey Hernandez
Kendrick Jackson (moving back to ILB might be an option)
Jack Kraus
Deion Malone
Derrick Munson
Josh Paul
Micahh Smith
Michael Taylor
Dee Walker


Now I hope all the players wait to make decisions on their future until they go through Spring Practices.  Gotta think new coach will give some of them new opportunities and a fresh new start to show what they can do.  I won't be surprised if 5 or 6 move on, maybe more.  There's gonna be kids that just don't have the talent or the tools to play the way CCM wants and demands.  Michael Woods is already better than 1/2 of our WR room.
Why would you list redshirt FR and players injured last year on your cut list? 

Tim Harris

Quote from: East TN HAWG on December 20, 2017, 10:54:53 pm
Why would you list redshirt FR and players injured last year on your cut list? 

Because he just looked for names he knows that didn't produce.  Like you said not likely a RS FR is asked to move on.  If you really want to find guys that may move on look for guys who graduated last week or will graduate in the spring and still have eligibility left.

nwahogfan1

He wants leaner athletics who can move and play in space so I bet this off season will have drills and weight lifting designed to reach those results. I see lots of running, stadium steps and agility drills coming in January.  I say some will not approve and more on.  I would not want to go thru their 3 week conditioning program CM says they will go thru when they return in January.  CM has to find out who wants to buy in so he may be pretty tough his first spring. Some who loved CBB may not want to stay.  Bigger LBers, DLs, OLM and TEs who can not run will not return.  Too many TEs and FBs for the spread.   Lots of reasons but I say 10 or more will leave in the spring.

lakecityhog

I truly hope that Morris doesn't totally abandon size and strength, the SEC West will eat small quick guys for lunch! Look no farther than TCU for a good example of this concept not working against the big boys of college football.

TCU beats a ton of teams with their quickness, but when they face Oklahoma they typically struggle. They struggled with us in 2016 because we still had some real physicality to us then. Remember the old adage, "A good little man is great, but a good big man is better."

I do hope to see MUCH better conditioning, more quickness and some real football type strength. That is the main area of our weakness, plain old toughness. If we can get our O'Line and D'Line to play with the mental toughness to fight thru when things go south we will be tons better.

As far as attrition, I hope that we only lose the kids that aren't willing to adapt and pay the price to get better. I would rather have a short 2018 class than to just "cut" kids like Bama does. I hope that Morris and his staff really make an effort to keep every kid currently on the roster and motivate them to become the players that we thought they were when we recruited them.
Someone posted the other day that we have as many 4* kids as anyone in the SEC and if we are to believe that the ratings are accurate then we should believe that we have a ton of talent on the roster.

Three and Snout

Quote from: BoynamedWooPigSooie on December 15, 2017, 06:18:18 pm
Looking at the roster here's a few logical names we might think are in play to move on.

Just listed alphabetically

Kofi Boateng
Terrell Collins
Nate Dalton
Deon Edwards
Cole Hedlund (I'd offer to let him stay but as a walkon, his scholarship is needed elsewhere)
Korey Hernandez
Kendrick Jackson (moving back to ILB might be an option)
Jack Kraus
Deion Malone
Derrick Munson
Josh Paul
Micahh Smith
Michael Taylor
Dee Walker