QB question after watching Morris' interview by Tony Barnhart

[hogsanity]

Should they then add yards gained scrambling to passing yards?

Why? That is a run. The NFL subtracts sack yardage from passing because the QB 99% of the time was sacked trying to pass, not on a run play, but if he does scramble he gets rush yardage because he ran past the LOS.

What about rushing yardage gained by a receiver on a designed running play? 

Why? That is a run play, does not matter if they hand it to a wr, te or a guard. Why add it to passing yards.

Why they subtract sack yards form the rushing total in college is beyond me, but many things done in college sports defies logic.

[GuvHog]

Twist, I see where your're going, and although I don't know how much, Cole has certainly dropped some weight judging by the looks of his mid section.

I'm just going by what I observed last year when he got pressure on passing downs.  Just did not appear to have the quick moves in the pocket to scramble.

At the end, Morris may not have another choice.  Cole may rise to the top.  Probably goes without saying, IMO, that won't be a good thing for the Razorbacks.  Tackles, LBers, and outside rushers are just to quick and fast in the SEC.

Taj Boyd (Clemson) was a pro style passing QB with some mobility, he was not a Dual Threat QB.

Upon arriving at SMU, Morris inherited a Dual Threat starting QB. A year later, he replaced that Dual Threat QB with Hicks who was a pro style passing QB. Hicks very seldom ran the ball.

If that doesn't tell you what style of QB Morris prefers, you aren't paying attention.

[OLEJACKETFAN]

CM didn't replace his Dual Threat QB with Hicks at SMU. The Dual Threat QB started EVERY game the first year. The Dual Threat QB went down with a torn ACL in the first game, first Quarter of the second year. Was lost for the season. Forced to start a Redshirt Freshman after that.

[ArkansasI]

Why? That is a run. The NFL subtracts sack yardage from passing because the QB 99% of the time was sacked trying to pass, not on a run play, but if he does scramble he gets rush yardage because he ran past the LOS.

...on a designed passing play.

But whatever.

[bennyl08]

Of course, you would have to go game-by-game to determine how many yards were subtracted because of Sacks (which in truth should be subtracted from passing yards, not rushing yards, to be more accurate) but since the NCAA doesn't record some stats accurately it remains a point of opinion in the absence of the research.

The NCAA does record stats as accurately as they can be done. We've already discussed in the past why counting assisted tackles as a half tackle in the combined is no more accurate than the way they currently do it.

Similarly, sack yardage is not accrued on a pass. So, why should they count that against passing yards? Not even the NFL does that, though they do keep track of lost yardage on sacks differently from run plays.

Sure, if the qb threw the ball in the air, caught that same pass, and was tackled for a loss, that should count as passing yards. Because, you know, the ball was actually passed. However, in a sack, the ball carrier would be treated with positive yards if the carrier gained positive yards, so why is it different if they lose yards?

A lot, if not most qb's get the majority of their rushing yards on scramble plays. Designed pass plays that break down and end up as running plays. Should those be counted as passing yards instead of rushing yards? It makes as much sense to count the positive yards gained in the same style that the negative yards are gained. Heck, watch most sack plays and unless it is a blindside sack, most of the time, the qb has ceased to be looking to throw the ball and has started to run with it when sacked. Often this will be a tucking of the ball and making it one yard forward into the pocket before being sacked and also rolling out of the pocket before being taken down is another common occurence. So, why should that be counted as negative passing yards when it isn't uncommon for the qb to actually gain yards on that scenario?

Is it simply because the play was called to be a passing play so you think any yards gained or lost regardless of whether or not a pass was actually thrown should be deemed passing yardage? If that's how you feel then what about RPO plays? It's not a designed run or pass play, it's both?

No, at the end of the day, it is most accurate to credit the yardage based on the actual rules of the game. Only somebody who catches a forward pass and then runs with the ball should be granted receiving yards. Only yards gained from a forward pass should be counted as passing yards. It doesn't make any logical sense to try and make some extremely subjective call as to whether the qb was truly trying to run with the ball or not or create some third category if the qb gets tackled for a loss on a rpo play.

[GuvHog]

CM didn't replace his Dual Threat QB with Hicks at SMU. The Dual Threat QB started EVERY game the first year. The Dual Threat QB went down with a torn ACL in the first game, first Quarter of the second year. Was lost for the season. Forced to start a Redshirt Freshman after that.

Hicks was the starting QB in Morris's last 2 years at SMU. He was Morris's pick.

[OLEJACKETFAN]

Sorry you don't understand but Hicks was the only choice after the first qtr,  of the first game. The starter for the second year went down with a Torn ACL!  Hicks isn't a runner but very Tuff QB. In multiple SMU interviews CM mentions Hicks isn't the best runner but does mention he makes good decisions. Cms third year at SMU, he brought in 2 QBs. One from a Jr College, Gillins I believe was his name. also Peavey from Arkansas. Both were the Mobile QB CM wanted but neither could grasp the Offense well enough to beat out Hicks.

[GuvHog]

Sorry you don't understand but Hicks was the only choice after the first qtr,  of the first game. The starter for the second year went down with a Torn ACL!  Hicks isn't a runner but very Tuff QB. In multiple SMU interviews CM mentions Hicks isn't the best runner but does mention he makes good decisions. Cms third year at SMU, he brought in 2 QBs. One from a Jr College, Gillins I believe was his name. also Peavey from Arkansas. Both were the Mobile QB CM wanted but neither could grasp the Offense well enough to beat out Hicks.

Hicks and Cole Kelley similar in many ways. Both are Pro style passing QBs but Kelly is a little heavier and maybe a bit taller. Some of the Arkansas players last year referred to Kelley as "The Franchise", saying he had the "IT" factor. When he was in the game, the players knew he had things under control and fed off of his leadership ability.

[OLEJACKETFAN]

You would have a much better idea about the Arkansas QB situation than me. Im not for or against any one of them. I have a good idea what Morris is looking for.  A D Watson Type. So there isn't any one on Roster like him, so what will be the give & takes. CMs QB will have to be a Leader by example. He will have to be smart & study lots to really grasp this Offense. A really good and accurate Arm.  CM will not tolerate a lot of bad decisions (int).  I don't think he has to be the greatest Athlete, but he will need to be able to run well enough to get first Downs. As CM said, be able to move the Chains. At SMU, Hicks seldom ran. But last half of last year he started  running some when everyone was covered. Resulted in several first Downs most of the time.  Prior to that he would just throw it away.

[redleg]

Cole Kelley should earn the job. He has unteachable size (6'7" 260) and arm strength, and with his weight loss from 270 down to around 250 or so, he'll even be a step faster. Granted, he's no Matt Jones (OMG could you even imagine!  ), but he does have the ability to move well in the pocket, escape, and gain yards with his feet.
Ty Storey is a talented QB with average size (6'2" 220) and good arm strength, who is a little quicker on the run. But his overall talent is not that of Kelley's. He would be a solid backup this fall, but I truly think that if, and when, Kelley is named the starter, Storey will transfer.
Daulton Hyatt is another good QB, although I do not know much about him, except that he is very thin (6'4" 195), and does not have the in-game experience that the other two QBs have.
Connor Noland is a true freshman with good size (6'3" 205) and room to grow. He has a strong and accurate arm to go with good speed and escape ability. But he has zero practice experience, let alone game experience. Noland really should redshirt.
John Stephen Jones, the grandson of Jerry Jones. Very talented player. Quick. Good arm and accuracy. He is also, when it comes to QBs, a midget (5'11" 180). Yes there are exceptions, but unless JSJ is the second coming of Doug Flutie, the only way this kid sees the field in an SEC game as a QB, in my opinion, is because of a rash of injuries.....OR.....because of favoritism due to whom he is related. And if THAT happens (one could say, if they were so inclined, that we just went through five years of that with the Allen brothers), Chad Morris won't be at Arkansas any longer than Bielema was at Arkansas.

[GolfHog]

Speed. To survive running in the SEC you must have speed and moves.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

You would have a much better idea about the Arkansas QB situation than me. Im not for or against any one of them. I have a good idea what Morris is looking for.  A D Watson Type. So there isn't any one on Roster like him, so what will be the give & takes. CMs QB will have to be a Leader by example. He will have to be smart & study lots to really grasp this Offense. A really good and accurate Arm.  CM will not tolerate a lot of bad decisions (int).  I don't think he has to be the greatest Athlete, but he will need to be able to run well enough to get first Downs. As CM said, be able to move the Chains. At SMU, Hicks seldom ran. But last half of last year he started  running some when everyone was covered. Resulted in several first Downs most of the time.  Prior to that he would just throw it away.

So what are the ideal measurables for a RPO QB?

Just my opinion but I would say 6-2 to 6-4 (tall enough to see down field), 215-225 lbs. (enough bulk to take hits), 4.5 to 4.8 in the 40 (fast enough to make defenses pay when they don't honor his speed) with quick feet, ability to check out of bad plays at the LOS and make quick decisions based on reads in ether the pass or run game, a strong enough arm to make an accurate and timely 10-15 and out throw from the far side of the field or stretch the field with a "over the top" throw when the opportunity is presented. Also needs positive leadership ability so that his team (offense and defense) believes that they can score anytime that he is in the game.

That's probably not all of the traits that are required, but might be a good start. Who do we have that best fits that criteria?

[Dominicanhog]

So what are the ideal measurables for a RPO QB?

Just my opinion but I would say 6-2 to 6-4 (tall enough to see down field), 215-225 lbs. (enough bulk to take hits), 4.5 to 4.8 in the 40 (fast enough to make defenses pay when they don't honor his speed) with quick feet, ability to check out of bad plays at the LOS and make quick decisions based on reads in ether the pass or run game, a strong enough arm to make an accurate and timely 10-15 and out throw from the far side of the field or stretch the field with a "over the top" throw when the opportunity is presented. Also needs positive leadership ability so that his team (offense and defense) believes that they can score anytime that he is in the game.

That's probably not all of the traits that are required, but might be a good start. Who do we have that best fits that criteria?

Agree size is important, especially in our conference and you have to recruit to percentages but some of the best in college have been smaller in stature.. To me, more than any other position, QB either has the "IT factor" or not.. a lot of good 5th year sr's lead good teams, but I'd like to have a Doug Flutie or Johnny Manziel about now..

I also think winning is a trait that gets overlooked.. having nuts during clutch time...

[IronHog]

Don't be surprised if Hyatt isn't the best QB on the roster.

From watching the little bit of footage they put out of the first practice he looked to have the better/quicker release, made a better variety of throws and looked better on the move.

Kelley is a lot of fun but I have a feeling in the end Hyatt is best suited for the offense we'll be running.

If they try to run a 190lbs QB he'll last maybe half a season


Kelly will be the starter barring disaster

[IronHog]

He is an ESPN top 150 kid. I dont get how the fanbase missed him being here. People always instantly elevating a 3 star above a top 150 ESPN kid is mind boggling to me, but this is Hogville, so...

DALTON HYATT will be the starter, y'all.

Recruiting rankings as a measure of a player are out of control



CK is the most physically talented QB on campus and it's not close.  His struggle will be mental

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Recruiting rankings as a measure of a player are out of control



CK is the most physically talented QB on campus and it's not close.  His struggle will be mental

Team recruiting rankings aren't accurate either. The true measure of talent is how many go on to get drafted.

Just compare Auburn and Arkansas' recruiting rankings from 2006-2015: Auburn avg: #11  Arkansas avg: #26.6

Now compare the number of players drafted from 2008-2017: Auburn-32  Arkansas-36

One is producing more talent from that which is perceived to be less. Of course then the question is, why has Auburn gone 82-48 (.631) from 2007-2016 and we have only gone 71-56 (.559) with slightly more NFL drafted talent over the same period of time?

[bennyl08]

Team recruiting rankings aren't accurate either. The true measure of talent is how many go on to get drafted.

Just compare Auburn and Arkansas' recruiting rankings from 2006-2015: Auburn avg: #11  Arkansas avg: #26.6

Now compare the number of players drafted from 2008-2017: Auburn-32  Arkansas-36

One is producing more talent from that which is perceived to be less. Of course then the question is, why has Auburn gone 82-48 (.631) from 2007-2016 and we have only gone 71-56 (.559) with slightly more NFL drafted talent over the same period of time?

Not all draft picks are created equal. Having a Chris Houston on the team is different from Tevin Mitchel.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Not all draft picks are created equal. Having a Chris Houston on the team is different from Tevin Mitchel.

Well of course, that is true. Still, I would expect a school with an average rank of #11 over 10 years to produce more drafted NFL talent. Or, I might expect a team with 36 "drafted" players over that period of time, to have won more than they have, even with a #26.6 average ranking.

[Mike Irwin]

Morris has said nothing about a number 1 guy right now. Based on the scrimmages, Kelley and Storey are getting equal reps with the ones and the numbers are not close. With Kelley there are more total yards gained and more TDs than when Storey is on the field. At this point Hyatt is not even in the ballpark. But it will likely be a while before Morris indicates a preference. Maybe not until after the spring game.

[BoynamedWooPigSooie]

His downfield throws were mostly on target today. However there was a 10 minute session where the QBs were throwing swing passes to the running backs and tight ends and Hyatt was missing badly. Like out of reach passes. Three feet too high. Two feet too much in front. Four feet behind. It was really noticeable since none of the other QBs were struggling like that.

Thanks for the info.  You obviously see the team more than any of us. I just go off the little bit of video y'all give us.  That's not a good sign for Hyatt if he can't hit the windows by reading and reacting.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Morris has said nothing about a number 1 guy right now. Based on the scrimmages, Kelley and Storey are getting equal reps with the ones and the numbers are not close. With Kelley there are more total yards gained and more TDs than when Storey is on the field. At this point Hyatt is not even in the ballpark. But it will likely be a while before Morris indicates a preference. Maybe not until after the spring game.

Yeah it's not lookin good for ole Hyatt. I had hoped for better than Cole Kelley but that is who we are going to see , it looks like. Disappointing that Hyatt isnt seizing what is right there for the taking.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Taj Boyd (Clemson) was a pro style passing QB with some mobility, he was not a Dual Threat QB.

Upon arriving at SMU, Morris inherited a Dual Threat starting QB. A year later, he replaced that Dual Threat QB with Hicks who was a pro style passing QB. Hicks very seldom ran the ball.

If that doesn't tell you what style of QB Morris prefers, you aren't paying attention.

Morris recruited Deshawn Watson- he inherited Taj Boyd, so it's an irrelevant point. I am flabbergasted as to why you are on a crusade to prove Morris likes slow QBS, it's absolutely FALSE af. He wants SPEED EVERYWHERE, bruh. DUH!!! Super duh.

[jgphillips3]

Morris recruited Deshawn Watson- he inherited Taj Boyd, so it's an irrelevant point. I am flabbergasted as to why you are on a crusade to prove Morris likes slow QBS, it's absolutely FALSE af. He wants SPEED EVERYWHERE, bruh. DUH!!! Super duh.

Everyone with a brain wants a Deshaun Watson.  However, I'd be willing to bet that if he can't have an elite passer and elite runner in the same body he would pick elite passer every time.  So, until he gets a Kenneth Jefferson on campus and has a chance to get him up to speed, I bet he'll go with the one that makes the best decisions and best throws.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Everyone with a brain wants a Deshaun Watson.  However, I'd be willing to bet that if he can't have an elite passer and elite runner in the same body he would pick elite passer every time.  So, until he gets a Kenneth Jefferson on campus and has a chance to get him up to speed, I bet he'll go with the one that makes the best decisions and best throws.

yeah, of course, but he wouldnt recruit a slow QB. He'll find a fast one who can throw it a mile (Ken Jefferson) , or at bare minimum a serviceable runner with a cannon and great reads/ quick decision making (Gunnel).

And you are right everyone with a brain wanted Watson, but Bert didnt (ahem) and Morris GOT Watson, the others didnt.