Missouri 86 Arkansas 64..........Pitiful

[Deuce Pigelow]

I remember back in 95 (I think it was 95 anyway) that a Nolan Richardson Arkansas team beat Mizzou by 50 points.  That same Mizzou team went on to go undefeated in the Big 12 conference and was within a coast-to-coast drive by Tyus Edney of beating UCLA in the NCAA tournament which we know went on to beat Arkansas in the championship game.  I guess I am saying the sky is not falling yet and maybe this will be some motivation for the team.

that was in 94, the year we won it all and opened BWA. We opened it with a 102-50 drubbing of Mizz. the next year was the Edney buzzer beater.

[Deuce Pigelow]

Stan looked lost last night. He didn't have a clue, I guess they don't play ball like that up north where he come from. Surely there is game film of old Hog games somewhere he could have watched.

There were many many things that drove me nuts watching the game, but two things were the guards picking up their dribble when trapped, and the bigs putting the ball on the floor when they got it down low. That is two of the most basic fundametals of basketball. Even my wife was hollering about that and she knows nothing about basketball.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

Look, we certainly did our part in helping Mizzou but it was just their night.

They hadnt beaten us since JImmy Johnson was winning SUper Bowls with the Dallas Cowboys. They had about 6K people there when everyone thought there wouldnt be 500 people there. Those guys were jacked up for Arkansas.

You're not gonna beat a team that shoots 57% from three. 12-21 is ridiculous. They won't shoot that well for the rest of the year.

As for Arkansas, we sucked pretty badly last night. I guess that means Stan sucks and we can forget about the NCAAT.

Ridiculous. We just came off one of the best performances by our team in a long long time. We beat 3 pretty good teams in Orlando. But i guess that doenst count now.

I remember in 99 we got beaten like a yard dog against OKlahoma and came back two months later to kill #2 Auburn on our way to a #4 seed in the NCAAT.

Amazing what people will say after just one loss in the non conference season. We have a chance to bounce back when we play Texas Tech and Texas.

[HogISH™]

I am shocked how badly this Razorback team looked last night.  Did they even get off the bus?

No.  The defense stayed in Fayetteville.

figured you would already be back to fresh leggs by now

HogISH

[Tone]

Am I the only person that remembers that, besides UNLV which was just unnaturally good, the teams that gave him trouble were the teams that slowed the game down. Nolan's game plan never was good at dealing with half-court games. I was sure Heath would attempt that last night.  Instead they tried to run as well.  And, so out of control, turned the ball over more than I thought was possible without trying. These guys have no idea how to handle the pressure and ALWAYS pick up there dribble way too early and too far away from the basket. I guess the rest of the SEC has seen what they need to take us to school this year unless Heath can teach these guys to handle the ball without throwing it away and maybe how to take a run and gun team and make them play half court.

Excellent point regarding picking up their dribble.  I noticed Sean does it more than Ervin.  Sean is somewhat of a liability on defense this year.  He seems to be expecting the big guys to help more than they do.  See the last play of the first half.  


They did this in the first half of SIU also.  No consistency.  They need a come to Jesus meeting.

[TennesseeRaz]

Am I the only person that remembers that, besides UNLV which was just unnaturally good, the teams that gave him trouble were the teams that slowed the game down. Nolan's game plan never was good at dealing with half-court games. I was sure Heath would attempt that last night.  Instead they tried to run as well.  And, so out of control, turned the ball over more than I thought was possible without trying. These guys have no idea how to handle the pressure and ALWAYS pick up there dribble way too early and too far away from the basket. I guess the rest of the SEC has seen what they need to take us to school this year unless Heath can teach these guys to handle the ball without throwing it away and maybe how to take a run and gun team and make them play half court.

Excellent point regarding picking up their dribble.  I noticed Sean does it more than Ervin.  Sean is somewhat of a liability on defense this year.  He seems to be expecting the big guys to help more than they do.  See the last play of the first half.  


They did this in the first half of SIU also.  No consistency.  They need a come to Jesus meeting.

I don't know.  Ervin picks up his dribble, and he gets backtapped constantly.  Hey Gary, if there's only one opponent in front of you, that means there's 4 coming from behind....

[d1nonlyhogfan]

USC 70 Arkansas 17
USC 50 Arkansas 14

Thanks, HDN.

[wishyjoshy]

Ervin did no better than McCurdy last night in any phase of the game.

Ball handling, especially picking up the dribble was horrible. 

[woospapiggy]

I have always tried to support coach heath but last night was an embarrassment.  i got so mad that i finally had to turn it off.  all mizzou was doing was playing full court man to man, with occasionally playing run and jump.  our press break makes no sense.  why would the point guard that needs to be handling the ball take it out on a press break?  i understand the slice cut after we inbounded the ball but we only got it a handfull of times and when we did break the press we turned it over by forcing the issue or attacking without numbers in our favor.  our players looked like 7th graders that were facing pressure man to man for the first time. looked like we were playing hide and go seek with the ball cause nobody wanted it in their hands.  pitiful, i hope we get it together soon, this group has the talent but last night looked aweful.

[Nashville Fan]

You have to pass over the pressure and/or have the big guy at half court, and take it to the hoop to draw the foul. That formula worked very well agaist us 6&7 years ago. I bet it would still work today.

[PiggyBack]

I remember seeing a television piece back when BW was still under construction  where Nolan was talking about how he wanted the nets to be wider at the bottom and much more slack than most so that his big men could reach up and pull the ball down after a made shot and in one motion step out of bounds and throw a baseball pass to a streaking PG guard to catch the defense asleep.  Remember that?

Does coach Heath just not want an up-tempo style?  I'm not trying to call him out or anything, just curious....

[Jim Harris]

I am surprised you guys are overreacting like this.  Do you remember what happened the first time Nolan took the Razorbacks back to Tulsa?  We lost a game so ugly it made one wonder what was going to happen the rest of the season.  Then we were fine.  This was a bad setup for the Hogs, and they got lucky given that the snowstorm made the crowd pretty small.  Mizzou peaked like you knew they would.

you are absolutely right, but even in a trap game I'd like to think some of our players (Hunter and Hill in particular) would step up like men and not just play like ****** against pressure. Of course, when the guards have been sped up to a warp they can't handle, it's going to all filter to bad play among the bigs too.

[petro pig]

For the first time in my life.

I went to bed on the hogs.  At halftime.  I knew it was over, and it was gonna be embarrassing.

I did too.  Until last night I have never turned the tube off on the hogs.  I cut it off after the first ten minutes.  You could tell our guys were not well coached and looked lost.  I fet bad for the players.  I don't know how much more we can take of this crap.

I went to bed.

It was that bad.

[Biggus Piggus]

I am surprised you guys are overreacting like this.  Do you remember what happened the first time Nolan took the Razorbacks back to Tulsa?  We lost a game so ugly it made one wonder what was going to happen the rest of the season.  Then we were fine.  This was a bad setup for the Hogs, and they got lucky given that the snowstorm made the crowd pretty small.  Mizzou peaked like you knew they would.

you are absolutely right, but even in a trap game I'd like to think some of our players (Hunter and Hill in particular) would step up like men and not just play like ****** against pressure. Of course, when the guards have been sped up to a warp they can't handle, it's going to all filter to bad play among the bigs too.

The small crowd really helped us at first.  We ran our stuff well and controlled the pace of play.  Charles Thomas was owning them.  But Thomas got in foul trouble and had to leave for a long stretch.  When he sat was when we went from having a chance to build a lead, to struggling to stay above water.

Once both benches had been through a complete substitution rotation, MA started dialing in on our turnover-prone players.  Beverley started passing up shots, instead trying to make one more pass.  Dammit you don't maximize passes against a Nolan/MA defense, you attack and take the easy shot they are handing to you.  If you can't get, mentally, into the frame of mind that you want the shot when they give it to you, then you end up taking all your shots under duress.

We were shooting well over 50% from the field, close and far, midway through the first half.  After that we shot something like 10% from outside and 45% inside.  Turnovers and fouls cost us loads of possessions too.  We wasted lots of effort trying to work the ball inside.  Missouri would deny our first effort then steal the second.  At first Thomas and Townes got some easy inside stuff, but at the end we didn't get enough shots off when they were makeable.

Hogs had 24 turnovers, same as the SIU game.  Difference here was Mizzou scored off our turnovers and SIU, with its plodding pace, didn't.  Plus the Tigers battled us even on the boards, something a lot of you never expected to see.

Main question you come away with is whether Gary Ervin will ever get better, or is he always going to be this kind of guard--kind of an upgraded version of Eric Ferguson, who goes batty when we most need our guards to provide leadership.

Roll these guys' shooting up--Ervin, McCurdy, Welsh--they hit 0-10.  Weems and Beverley were 11-20.  They didn't take enough shots.  Mizzou used Heath's system against him, classic Nolan.

I do have to get in this dig.  A lot of fans didn't want Mike to get a chance after Nolan.  They desperately wanted Nolan fired when he was having a .500 season against the toughest schedule in the history of the school, so that Nolan couldn't hand the job to Mike intraseason the next year like they feared.  They were certain that Mike wouldn't correct the problems Nolan had developed with recruiting and lack of big men.  Ever since Mike Anderson left Arkansas like you guys wanted, he has been more successful than Arkansas has been.  He has put out better teams than Arkansas has.  We missed the boat because of a bunch of yahoos who wanted a whiter black coach.  No, fans aren't always right.  I'm beginning to wonder whether Arkansas fans are ever right.

[dhornjr1]

Somewhere Nolan is still grinning from ear to ear this morning.  How familiar did that offense and defense look?  Mike is 8-0, and granted, Arkansas is the first real team they've played, Mizzou has got to be happy now.  I still think we had more talent on the court, but the 18 first half turnovers killed us.

That's one of the virtues of 40 minutes of hell. Lesser talented teams have a chance to win because the game is speeded up and the other team is taken out of their element.

[oldbear]

I will stick with what I have said many times in the past.  If the Hogs do not figure out a way to stop the other team from setting records every night shooting the three, we will never win consistently.  We gave up 57% from behind the arc?  Last year we did not need scorers as much as we needed someone to stop the three.  This year it looks like we may struggle handling the ball along with giving up threes.  I just wish the bleeding would stop and we could play defense.

[Biggus Piggus]

I remember back in 95 (I think it was 95 anyway) that a Nolan Richardson Arkansas team beat Mizzou by 50 points.

It was Dec. 2, 1993 that Arkansas beat Mizzou 120-68.  The grand opening ceremony for Bud Walton Arena.  BTW it was March 1995 when Tyus Edney beat the Tigers with a last-second shot.  Missouri finished 28-4 in the 93-94 season, ending in the elite eight of the NCAAT.  Melvin Booker and Jevon Crudup were their best players.  They won 15 in a row after the Arkansas game.

They were 20-9 in 94-95 when they almost beat UCLA in the second round.

[Lando Calrissian]

I want that '94 team back.

[silvertip]

I am surprised you guys are overreacting like this.  Do you remember what happened the first time Nolan took the Razorbacks back to Tulsa?  We lost a game so ugly it made one wonder what was going to happen the rest of the season.  Then we were fine.  This was a bad setup for the Hogs, and they got lucky given that the snowstorm made the crowd pretty small.  Mizzou peaked like you knew they would.

Well, I'm not surprized. A lot of these guys overreacting are some of the same clowns that gave up 2 games into the SEC schedule last season, and started ranting about what Heath "hadn't done AFTER FOUR YEARS."

Well, four years wasn't over with last January and five years isn't over with now. All you geniuses act like you don't know the difference between basketball and football. ONE LOSS is not that big a deal in BB.

And all the worshippers of Nolan/Anderson BB style have really selective memories. Late in the game against West Virginia, I was sure glad that Nolan wasn't our coach. HIS undisciplined teams were capabable of blowing...oh say, a 6-point lead in the last minute vs Oklahoma.

Blowing a team out as MO did to the Hawgs last night is not unique to the Nolan/Anderson style. Most of the whiners here are probably too young to remember when Sutton's "slow-down" team welcomed almighty Houston to the SWC with a 92-47 blowout in Barnhill.

In BB, hitting your shots cures a lot of problems. Last night, turnovers were just part of the problem. MO was hot from 3-point range, the Hawgs were not. Hawgs cut down TOs from 18 in the first half to 6 in the second half. It didn't matter, as MO still hit 6 of 9 threes in the 2nd half.

Yeah, the Hawgs freshmen & transfer guards sucked last night at handling the ball. You should have seen that coming. It's a long season. But I would bet that the Hawgs have a better season than the Tiggers. Because that "mugging" style that Nolan/Anderson depend on doesn't work nearly as well on the road.

[HatfieldHog]

I've been so disgusted with Heath, that it didn't bother me that they clubbed us.  Heck, it's like Mike is one of our own anyway.

See ya

[Bill CHILL]

I didn't watch it because I feared it was coming.  Another result of committee hiring of athletic coaches.  You got a nice guy that speaks well and appreciated education but doesn't have the blood in his eye, killer instinct it takes to be a top 10 basketball coach at Arkansas.  Trouble is, I don't think JFB has the stomach for firings anymore.  We've settled into mediocrity in basketball..accepting "improvement" over 4-5 years as sufficient.  I'm not wired that way.  And JFB didn't use to be.

Think about this. If Houston Nutt, after having five or six seasons of average or below average play and after staying with losing QB after losing QB, IF he becomes our athletic director, wouldn't you expect him to ride out a losing coach for ten years or so? I mean, who would he be to fire someone after years of extra chances? Personally, I like Houston. I just don't know how good of an AD he could be. I don't think he has the stomach to fire anyone. If he can't pull a QB out of a game temporarily for poor performance, how will he fire a man or woman PERMANENTLY when it actually affects their families' lives? He would be where the buck stops. He wouldn't have Frank to blame or to accept part of the blame. Just something to think about.

[dahogman2]

Anyone who saw the makeup of this team and didn't expect some growing pains needs to rethink their understanding.

That D has confused others before and it will again. I do worry about the fact that GE seemed to think he had a bigtime stroke this game. I also have no clue what VH was thinking.

However, this was like the 4th game in a week or so. The travel was during a storm. It was the first AWAY game. The refs were also letting them play- touch fouls really hurt that system as any AR knows full well. Mainly, if MO can shoot 75% of it s threes or so then  they are going to be a national player this year. The game was really decided in the last 3 minutes of the first half.

The coaching staff is fine. They were trying to make corrections and there was serious coaching going on during the timeouts by the entire staff. We sucked and got our butts whipped. It is not a bad thing to get a good reality check right now. In BB, all revolves around March.

For all of you that mainly want to thump your chest and say' See I have been saying all along" or whatever this early season will be a good time. Most of us knew this team was on a rough road. I bet I enjoy this year more than y'all do though.

Amen to that!

[hogsrock]

Somewhere Nolan is still grinning from ear to ear this morning.  How familiar did that offense and defense look?  Mike is 8-0, and granted, Arkansas is the first real team they've played, Mizzou has got to be happy now.  I still think we had more talent on the court, but the 18 first half turnovers killed us.

If we truly have more talent then the difference in coaching is astronomical.

[WRICAT]

Stan looked lost last night. He didn't have a clue, I guess they don't play ball like that up north where he come from. Surely there is game film of old Hog games somewhere he could have watched.

There were many many things that drove me nuts watching the game, but two things were the guards picking up their dribble when trapped, and the bigs putting the ball on the floor when they got it down low. That is two of the most basic fundametals of basketball. Even my wife was hollering about that and she knows nothing about basketball.

The best way to beat a press, in what I have observed, is to throw it to your tallest player in the middle, such as Steven Hill, and depending on how that player is guarded, throw it two streaking players running down the side of the court, or dribble it across the half court line, and set up.

The main problem, is that the players must be good passers, and receivers of the ball, while running it.

But when it is done correctly, it break the press quickly, and many times get layups for score.

The key is good passing, with NO dribbling, except when not being closely guarded.

[Arkapigdiesel]

Last night was a reminder of why Stan Heath will NEVER cut it here at The U of A.  Never.

[WRICAT]

I am surprised you guys are overreacting like this.  Do you remember what happened the first time Nolan took the Razorbacks back to Tulsa?  We lost a game so ugly it made one wonder what was going to happen the rest of the season.  Then we were fine.  This was a bad setup for the Hogs, and they got lucky given that the snowstorm made the crowd pretty small.  Mizzou peaked like you knew they would.

you are absolutely right, but even in a trap game I'd like to think some of our players (Hunter and Hill in particular) would step up like men and not just play like ****** against pressure. Of course, when the guards have been sped up to a warp they can't handle, it's going to all filter to bad play among the bigs too.

The small crowd really helped us at first.  We ran our stuff well and controlled the pace of play.  Charles Thomas was owning them.  But Thomas got in foul trouble and had to leave for a long stretch.  When he sat was when we went from having a chance to build a lead, to struggling to stay above water.

Once both benches had been through a complete substitution rotation, MA started dialing in on our turnover-prone players.  Beverley started passing up shots, instead trying to make one more pass.  Dammit you don't maximize passes against a Nolan/MA defense, you attack and take the easy shot they are handing to you.  If you can't get, mentally, into the frame of mind that you want the shot when they give it to you, then you end up taking all your shots under duress.

We were shooting well over 50% from the field, close and far, midway through the first half.  After that we shot something like 10% from outside and 45% inside.  Turnovers and fouls cost us loads of possessions too.  We wasted lots of effort trying to work the ball inside.  Missouri would deny our first effort then steal the second.  At first Thomas and Townes got some easy inside stuff, but at the end we didn't get enough shots off when they were makeable.

Hogs had 24 turnovers, same as the SIU game.  Difference here was Mizzou scored off our turnovers and SIU, with its plodding pace, didn't.  Plus the Tigers battled us even on the boards, something a lot of you never expected to see.

Main question you come away with is whether Gary Ervin will ever get better, or is he always going to be this kind of guard--kind of an upgraded version of Eric Ferguson, who goes batty when we most need our guards to provide leadership.

Roll these guys' shooting up--Ervin, McCurdy, Welsh--they hit 0-10.  Weems and Beverley were 11-20.  They didn't take enough shots.  Mizzou used Heath's system against him, classic Nolan.

I do have to get in this dig.  A lot of fans didn't want Mike to get a chance after Nolan.  They desperately wanted Nolan fired when he was having a .500 season against the toughest schedule in the history of the school, so that Nolan couldn't hand the job to Mike intraseason the next year like they feared.  They were certain that Mike wouldn't correct the problems Nolan had developed with recruiting and lack of big men.  Ever since Mike Anderson left Arkansas like you guys wanted, he has been more successful than Arkansas has been.  He has put out better teams than Arkansas has.  We missed the boat because of a bunch of yahoos who wanted a whiter black coach.  No, fans aren't always right.  I'm beginning to wonder whether Arkansas fans are ever right.

About that small crowd, they were all asked to move down closer to the court, the good seats, and I am sure this was done to create a more hostile noise enviroment for the the Razorbacks, and it worked.

About the press, it did not happen this time, as I hoped, but I remember Arkansas, while Nolan Richardson was coach, playing Eddie Sutton at Alltel Arena, and the Hog press caused Sutton's team to be down by 15 at half time.

Sutton told his players, to work to get it under 10 the 2nd half, as Arkansas would get tired.

Man, was he ever right.  Arkansas got beat by around 18, if my memory is correct.

That is the thing, if handled right, the opponent can cause the pressing team to get fatigued before the team being pressed does.

And that is the whole point of the press, make the other team frustrated and fatigued.

[trufanofhogs]

Comments made by 2 Hall of Fame coaches.

Nolan Richardson   -   "All sickness is not death"

Lou Holtz   -   "Things are never quite as good or as bad as they seem."

I, for one, was not really surprised at last night's outcome. Quite honestly, folks, Missouri is not really that good, and Arkansas is not really that bad. It is a long season, so let us see how things play out for both teams over the long haul.

[toshortrock]

what did u clowns expect,bout what i expected,we lose,not even close,but

[Broken Trigger]

Read my Heath rant post and you know my feelings.  I'm sick of it.  I think I'm going to quit shaving until he leaves

Is there gonna be a change in moniker to "Notshavintillheathgo"?  I agree with all about the game being pathetic.  I'm wanting to be a hugger so bad for the b-ball team.  I want to see Heath get it done, but this is as disappointing a loss as i can remember in years. 

[ste4236]

My roommate and I listened on our drive to Atlanta... we started losing it as we were getting out of Memphis.... it sounded just horrible.

[Razorbacks#1]

I would rather they lose early in the season than later. This loss should get them to thinking about team vice I.

[ste4236]

I would rather they lose early in the season than later. This loss should get them to thinking about team vice I.

I agree.
Good post

[Immensehog]

My roommate and I listened on our drive to Atlanta... we started losing it as we were getting out of Memphis.... it sounded just horrible.

Just imagine Richard Simmons and those fat "sweatin' to the oldies" ladies trying to break a press. 

That should give you a good visual of what it was really like.

[WRICAT]

I would rather they lose early in the season than later. This loss should get them to thinking about team vice I.

I agree.
Good post

I really believe we are going to have a good basketball team, a championship team.

Discounting the Missouri game, what has impressed me, in addition to the scoring of Weems and Beverly, is their rebounding.

Also, Irwin has been getting rebounds.

It looks as if Beverly is going to be that "special player", such as McFadden on the football team.

He is good very good, has it all.

Looks smooth with the basketball, has the 3 pt. touch, and is a flyer around the hoop.

Weems looks good also, especially rebounding and defense.

If Hill could learn to shoot a short jumper or close hook, and get 10 to 12 points a game, this team could be awesome.

I think Hill could be a great jump shooter from 6 to 8 feet out, but apparently he has never had to jump to shoot, especially in high school.

If he could learn to shoot such as Townes, look out.

[spacehog]

Geez people, it was one game.  Remember this is NOT college football; there is a playoff at the end of the regular season, a few losses are nothing.  I think Stan has done a pretty good job, you could tell he was pissed in his interviews.  He said the team had the big head after winning the Old Spice.

"They thought we had arrived; we haven't done anything..."
-Stan

Seriously, the local news channels acted like we had one the NCAA championship after winning the Old Spice Classic.  They actually said on the news, "well, the Arkansas Razorbacks have won a championship".  LOL!!!