The "Hurry-Up No-Huddle" offense

[hydrophonic]

Let me summarize this thread...

Good post.  +1

[SwinedMelon]

What I like about the HUNH and our team is that with McFadden, and Felix etc. we can move from I-form to spread without a huddle and without the defense being able to make substitutions. 

...and we shall, Grasshopper, we shall! GM is all about some motion before the snap.

[TulsaHawg]

The HUNH is a "PHILOSOPHY".  That's Gus's word. The opposite philosophy would be "Slow-Down Huddle-Up".  Actually Gus terms the opposite a "ball control" philosophy.  He said that is what he ran before developing the HUNH. 

The HUNH speaks to the pace of the game and applying pressure to the opponent.  Gus said, " we run our offense at that fast and furious pace the entire game."  One can have a "No Huddle", but not a "Hurry-Up". 

The elements that factor into the HUNH have nothing to do really with passing, or running, or spreading for that matter.  It has more to do with snapping the ball within 5 seconds of the ball being made ready for play by the ref;  not running a lot of motion, because that delays the snap count; players handing the ball back to the ref, not just because it is good sportsmanship, but more importantly, because he doesn't want to waste any seconds in getting the ball put back into play.  In the HUNH, Gus is concerned with how quickly the chaingang operates, and he wants the people operating the chain to be in good shape. 

He doesn't want receivers retrieving incomplete passes.  They are to hustle back to the LOS to get ready for the next play.  He is so detailed about getting the ball back in play quickly, that he recommends that a team have two reserve players, not the coach's son, but reserve players to serve as "ball boys".  One is in charge of retrieving balls resulting from incomplete passes, and the other is in charge of running a new ball out to the umpire, because that is quicker than getting the ball from the incompletion back to the ref. IF the ball from an incompletion is brought back in, it should not be handed to the ref, but to the umpire, since he is the one who places the ball  for the next play. He feels so strongly about this that he recommends putting a coach in charge of the ball boys.  Furthermore, he recommends that the "ball boys" be made to feel that they are just as important as the players on the field, because they help keep the game moving quickly.

He says that plays must be called quickly, and as soon as one is called, the play-caller needs to know what the next play is going to be.

So the HUNH is a "philosophy".  Various offensive styles can be utilized  using that philosophy.  Gus said that you could use the "wide-open, option-oriented, Wing-T, or run-and-shoot."  Even HDN's offense from last season could be used with a HUNH philosophy for that matter.  The same HUNH principles can be incorporated in any of them.  He said that they used the "wide-open" system, but any number of sytems could be used.  Some would apply more pressure to the opposition than others.

[AZHog]

The no-huddle spread will work if the offense can be successful getting 1st downs. Otherwise, instead of wearing out the opposing defense, you wear out your own defense with so many 3-and-outs. Defense takes much more energy to play than offense.

However, the OC should be able to recognize that before he wears out his own team's defense, and can resort to slowing the offense down. So, it's a matter of doing what the defense gives you. Once the OC has solved the problems, he can re-start the hurry-up offense, etc.

Time will tell, but GM has the studs to make this work. If it doesn't, getting the players in super shape should help regardless. So it should be a win-win situation. Also, to defend that offense during Fall practice, the defense will need to be in excellent condition too, which is a another +.

[AZHog]

WVU.....at least they run the spread, but not necessarily no-huddle as I recall. They were good enough to beat the SECC.

[AZHog]

context of being able to make 1st downs, rather than 3-and-outs.

[hogtheball]

Gus thinks the best defense is a great offense - I know, I used to argue with him about it all the time.  Given simlar talent levels, the offense's biggest advantage is that they know where the ball is going and the defense has to figure it out quick.  When the defense prepares for a team, they do formation scouting.  The linebackers and defensive backfield call out their defense when they see how the offense lines up, based on the types of plays the particular team runs out of a particular formation. 

Honestly, every team has two or three mentally "slow" players in their backfield.  I played some d-back in college and can tell you those ten or twenty seconds after the offense lines up when you're trying to think of all your coverage assignments can be very stressful.   Gus simply likes to cut that "thinking time" for defenses and their coaches in half or less.  The free safety doesn't have time to call the coverage with his corners, the middle linebacker doesn't have time to communicate with the ends or linemen and the strong safety is going crazy trying to figure out why DMac is lined up at tight end and DWill is in the backfield. 

There is absolutely no confusion in the offense because they studied their plays more than any team has ever studied before (Gus' offense requires confidence. Confidence requires knowing assignments instantly, without hesitation).  If all goes well on a given play, our offense will catch a "slow" defender out of place.  During Springdale games, you'd always see one of the recievers all by himself downfield.   It wasn't because the d-back was slow, it's because his coach was used to looking at the offensive formation, signaling his assignments in to the safety and the safety giving the assignments to the corners.   Against Springdale, there just isn't time.

Will this theory work in the SEC?  Yes.  Will it work as often as it did in high school? No.   As long as there are defenders who don't know or aren't 100% confident in their assignments on defense, the strategy will be effective. 

Simply, on defense, the free safety is the QB and he has to call the plays.  Gus doesn't give him time to call the plays very well.  If a team has a QB who isn't very intelligent, it works that much better.  It will work.  Just watch.

[AZHog]

an SC fan because of your statments....so much like many on the SC boards.

That said, prove to me that SC has more speed. I'll believe that when I see your comparative analysis. SC may be larger at some positions such as LB, CB, FS and SS, but they certainly are not faster.

On offense, SC does not come close to the speed of the Hogs. Even in last season's game, the only offensive SC player that came close to DMc's speed was RBush, and DMc may be faster based on RBush's proday 40 times.

The Hog first 11 on both sides of the ball will matchup well with SC's. Obviously, SC has a depth advantage at LB and the two safety positions, and that's it.

I have no doubt that the SC defense has improved. If for no other reason, they get some injured players back. What you won't accept is that both the Hog O and D improved with a chance to make a quantum leap in improvement on O this season. The only question is will they be able to tune it enough before Sept 2nd.

My guess is that only a portion of Malzahn's offense will be installed, but what will make the machine go regardless of offense is that he will make maximum use of his playmakers much as PC did. It has been stated on the SC boards that PC hates to prepare for a team that runs the spread and uses its RBs in multiple positions.....count on seeing that Sept 2nd. IMO, SC will see the spread, a heavy dose of power running and some no-huddle, hurry-up offense.

[AZHog]

nm

[Pork Twain]

Like I said before, it worked for the Buffalo Bills (NFL) and it worked at Springdale (HS) so please tell me why it cannot work at the UofA (NCAA).  Of course there is more talent in the NCAA than GM faced at Springdale but I would also wager that he will have more talent at Arkansas than he had at Springdale.

The only time the Bills ran into trouble was when they went against a superior defensive team with a good running game (Giants, Redskins, Cowboys).  That is when the other team would shut them down without them running off any clock and then the other team would continue to run the ball until their defense was exhausted. 

GM will come up against teams like that.  They will shut our offense down and he will have to adjust or our defense will get dismantled.  I just hope he does a better job of adjusting than Marv Levy did.

[gumby013]

After you have read Gus' book do some film study.  Look at what happens between plays.  Watch how fast Springdale's offense lines up.  The opposing defense can't change personnel.  They tend to run the same base defense after the first series.  And most importantly, the opposing defenders just get worn down.  Don't look at what play Sprindale's offense is running, that is irrelevant to the HUNH.

http://www.manionavra.com/clients/bulldogtvonline.com/jenks%20game.htm

[hog caller]

no it's not a version of the spread, and it will work in the SEC or any other conference as long as the line handles their blocking asignments. it is mam on man  will take some learning but is so simple i beleive i could still do it.oh maybe not.

[SwinedMelon]

After you have read Gus' book do some film study.  Look at what happens between plays.  Watch how fast Springdale's offense lines up.  The opposing defense can't change personnel.  They tend to run the same base defense after the first series.  And most importantly, the opposing defenders just get worn down.  Don't look at what play Sprindale's offense is running, that is irrelevant to the HUNH.

http://www.manionavra.com/clients/bulldogtvonline.com/jenks%20game.htm

Not only can the defense not really switch men in and out very well... the offense is constantly switching fresh backs and receivers in so they are going against DBs and LBs that are winded. It was almost not fair at Springdale...

[Sao Ming]

As i dont have time to review film of a HS team, for those that have can you comment on what percentage of Offensive plays were run under the HUNH?  100%?  85%?  Preechiateit.

[FLKeysGuy]

As i dont have time to review film of a HS team, for those that have can you comment on what percentage of Offensive plays were run under the HUNH?  100%?  85%?  Preechiateit.

100%

[SwinedMelon]

As i dont have time to review film of a HS team, for those that have can you comment on what percentage of Offensive plays were run under the HUNH?  100%?  85%?  Preechiateit.

100%

WHat he said...

[Sao Ming]

Gracias sir - trying to run that thrrough my internal computer to see how that will look in the Bigs.

[Sao Ming]

What toll does this take on the Heavies up front?

[hogtheball]

What toll does this take on the Heavies up front?

They love it as long as it catches the d out of step.  And they don't have to run in and out of huddles.  Also, S-dale's offense was on the field about half as much as their D.

[SwinedMelon]

they hate it during conditioning, but they are in excellent shape, so its no big deal... MM was sacked what...twice last year? And he was hurried about a dozen times or so...

[Sao Ming]

Quick scoring strikes surely attributed to the average - what was thier average yards per play, and if there is a website that has the vitals feel free to direct me.

[hogtheball]

Quick scoring strikes surely attributed to the average - what was thier average yards per play, and if there is a website that has the vitals feel free to direct me.

Yea, they score in like three plays.  I remember one game where their total time of possession was 6 or 7 minutes and they won by 6 or 7 touchdowns. 

[Sao Ming]

With that type of production the kids could coach themselves.

Oh, say Go Mavs out loud real quick for me.

[hogtheball]

With that type of production the kids could coach themselves.

Oh, say Go Mavs out loud real quick for me.

I said it - although I'm not sure my heart was in it.  Who will hit the big shot? DWade or Dirk?  I think it will come down to one or the other.

[Pork Twain]

I just cannot find it my heart to cheer for any Texass team.  There are just tooooooo many Texass fans in the Air Force and I get sick of hearing about them.

Springdale only runs the HUNH 99.8% of the time.  The first play of the game the had a huddle.

[Rooster Hawgburn]

SO SORRY,,, But I'm too SOUSED to read this entire thread! I brought this subject up "last night". ALTHOUGH, It was "DELETED" b/c I used obscene language.

IF SOME OF Y'ALL FOLKS WOULD? GO BACK AND WATCH THE RED/WHITE GAME (Hogwired)!!! The action starts about 15 minutes in. All you really have to watch is the first 10 plays or such of the OL... (AS THE REST OF THE "SCRIMMAGE WAS BS)!

ANYHOW,,, Take notice of the O-Line Splitz.... My question to all of you is:

CAN YOU TELL WHAT "TYPE" OF PLAY IS GOING TO BE CALLED BY LOOKING AT THE O-LINEMEN's SPLITZ Can you tell by the way the O-Linemen line up... IF the play is a "run" or "pass" play

Now, I'm not trying to dog-out Malzahn/MM/HDN  or anyone else! I'm just asking a simple question. Could you tell if the Hawgs were going to pass or run in the first few plays of scrimmage by checking out "our" OLmen???

IMO... Malzahn will make a helluva Play-Caller for our Hawgz-O!!! I'm just wondering... If a "nobody" like myself picked up on something like this What 'bout the Million $$$ Coaches he will be facing

Again,,, b/f I catch (my expected) "BEAT DOWN"... PLEASE, Go watch the first few plays of the scrimmage on Hogwired b/f y'all "BRING THE HELL"!!!

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. However, It looked to me like wider splits (with the OT's standing) on the passing plays. And, The Hawg's regular OL splitz for the running plays. Hopefully, GM and MM can get that worked out. Otherwise,,, it's going to be a long year (telegraphing every play like that)!



God Bless and Good Night,

Rooster Hawgburn

[werehog]

Well AZHog, I am a SoCalHog. I live where my work is. It would be great if I could live in Fayetteville, but I can't. It would be nice not to face Los Angeles traffic. I am not particularly a Southern Cal fan, but I am impressed by their desire to return to greatness and the talent pool they pick from, which is nation-wide inscope in spite of the excellence of high school athletics in California.

I spent years a sports writer. I had to put my bias aside and stride for objectivity. I love the St. Louis Cardinals and the Arkansas Razorbacks. I would like to see both team triumphant every year. I am a fan of the Hogs, but I think we are still a recruiting class or two away from being able to challenge the Trojans. You may not think USC will be better coached than Arkansas on Sept. 2, but I do. You might not think the Trojans will have more depth, speed and better athletes than the Razorbacks, but we differ on this. Where we will agree, is I think we would both like to see the Hogs win. Do I think it likely -- No.

What I am hoping for is a competitive game. I don't want to see another Trojan blowout, that is for sure. I would feel better out the the hurry up, no huddle offense if John Elway was running it, but he isn't. I plan on attendingg the game and cheering loud and long for the Hogs. I just hope there is something to cheer about.

[reddogfan]

SHS had 340 rushes for 2390 yds (7.03 average) and 280 passing attempts (184 complete) for 3873 yds (13.8 yds per attempt/19 yds per completion).  We had a 1008 yd running back (Clink), a 63 catch/1495 yd receiver (Williams) and a 63/1189 receiver (Norman), 23/338 yd TE (Cleveland, missed several games due to injury AND played defense) and 6 other receivers for the balance. 48 passing TDs (only 6 interceptions) and 40 rushing TDs.  3 on punt/kickoff returns.
Hogtheball, it was actually 2 1/2 minutes of possession and we scored 5 TDs, all passing.  But in all fairness it was against a 3A team....THAT is what happens when you have a mismatch and run the HUNH.  However, I don't think our Olinemen were winded...we normally got them on and off the field pretty quickly
The web-site no longer has last years stats. 

[ClubChubby]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't nutt nix the no huddle first week of spring ball?

Then after the cometojesusmeeting that never happened, a couple of scholarship offers, and now nutt's talking about running the hunh? Can someone clarify that please?

I still haven't heard anyone address my concern about practice time. No 7 on 7 all summer long. Only 20 hours a week during the season. How long will it take to install this is what I'm trying to get at here. Especially since we didn't work on it in the spring? Isn't there a potential bottleneck here? At least for this season?

[jap66]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't nutt nix the no huddle first week of spring ball?

Then after the cometojesusmeeting that never happened, a couple of scholarship offers, and now nutt's talking about running the hunh? Can someone clarify that please?

I still haven't heard anyone address my concern about practice time. No 7 on 7 all summer long. Only 20 hours a week during the season. How long will it take to install this is what I'm trying to get at here. Especially since we didn't work on it in the spring? Isn't there a potential bottleneck here? At least for this season?

Practice time .... practice time.... lack of practice time allowed.
You must remember Kay Stephenson.

[SwinedMelon]

SO SORRY,,, But I'm too SOUSED to read this entire thread! I brought this subject up "last night". ALTHOUGH, It was "DELETED" b/c I used obscene language.

IF SOME OF Y'ALL FOLKS WOULD? GO BACK AND WATCH THE RED/WHITE GAME (Hogwired)!!! The action starts about 15 minutes in. All you really have to watch is the first 10 plays or such of the OL... (AS THE REST OF THE "SCRIMMAGE WAS BS)!

ANYHOW,,, Take notice of the O-Line Splitz.... My question to all of you is:

CAN YOU TELL WHAT "TYPE" OF PLAY IS GOING TO BE CALLED BY LOOKING AT THE O-LINEMEN's SPLITZ Can you tell by the way the O-Linemen line up... IF the play is a "run" or "pass" play

Now, I'm not trying to dog-out Malzahn/MM/HDN  or anyone else! I'm just asking a simple question. Could you tell if the Hawgs were going to pass or run in the first few plays of scrimmage by checking out "our" OLmen???

IMO... Malzahn will make a helluva Play-Caller for our Hawgz-O!!! I'm just wondering... If a "nobody" like myself picked up on something like this What 'bout the Million $$$ Coaches he will be facing

Again,,, b/f I catch (my expected) "BEAT DOWN"... PLEASE, Go watch the first few plays of the scrimmage on Hogwired b/f y'all "BRING THE HELL"!!!

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. However, It looked to me like wider splits (with the OT's standing) on the passing plays. And, The Hawg's regular OL splitz for the running plays. Hopefully, GM and MM can get that worked out. Otherwise,,, it's going to be a long year (telegraphing every play like that)!



God Bless and Good Night,

Rooster Hawgburn

Thats a great question... the truth is, Springdale players didn't even know whether they would be running a pass or a run when they lined up at the LOS. Gus signalled in the play when they got lined up, and every formation can be used for a run or pass... it just depends on what the defense is doing and what Gus decides to do against it. At least that is what his book sez.

[AZHog]

looking through your Trojoan-colored glasses similar to what  I read on Trojan boards.

I agree with part of you statement that the Trojans having better depth, speed and size, but not at all positions. The Trojans will have better quality depth at LB, SS and QB. Also, they will have better coaches....primarily, because the MSM will still be at AR. GM, AW, RH and LC will matchup well with SC coaching. That said, PC and staff have a few years head-start on the new Hog assistants.

Again, I challenge you to show me that SC's RBs, WRs, LBs and DBs will be faster than their counterparts on the R'Back team. The only two players that MAY be slower at CB are Coe (4.5) and Richardson (4.5). SC does not have a single RB or WR that is faster than DMc, FJones, MSmith, CWashington, CBaker or CLogan that I've seen listed.

On the defensive side of the ball, Hog LBs are all 4.5 guys. Vinnett (CB), Houston (CB) and Grant (FS) are all sub 4.4 guys. Kelly (SS) is a 4.4 guy. SC does not have LBs and DBs that are any faster.....larger, yes.

No where have I said that there will be a blowout either way. I do expect a competitive game.

If you have tape of the AR/LSU game last season, compare the athletes of LSU to those on the Trojan team. IMO, LSU had better athletes with the exceptions of Bush, Leinart and maybe White. LSU receivers were as big and faster than any WR on the SC team. Brazzell, Carter and Green are tracksters. The combination of Vincent, Addai were about as good as Bush and White. Addai will be a better RB than either Bush or White in the NFL because he possesses characteristics of both, i.e., speed, power and pass-catching ability.

Russell is a better athlete than Leinart. However, Russell is younger, and does not recognize defenses as well as Leinart at this point in his career.

So, with all that said AR played LSU tough in that game showing their improvement. With the obvious drop-off that SC will experience on offense, and perhaps a new defense that will measure-up to LSU's defense of last season, all this points to a competive game.

[SwinedMelon]

Russell is a better athlete than Leinart. However, Russell is younger, and does not recognize defenses as well as Leinart at this point in his career.

I do need to work on my defense recognition... I can accept constructive critisism.

[PorkSoda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't nutt nix the no huddle first week of spring ball?

Then after the cometojesusmeeting that never happened, a couple of scholarship offers, and now nutt's talking about running the hunh? Can someone clarify that please?

I still haven't heard anyone address my concern about practice time. No 7 on 7 all summer long. Only 20 hours a week during the season. How long will it take to install this is what I'm trying to get at here. Especially since we didn't work on it in the spring? Isn't there a potential bottleneck here? At least for this season?

I would think that Mitch and Damien know enough about the HUNH to explain it to team mates in the 7 on 7 or whatever unofficial practices go on during the summer. 

My guess would be that we see the HUNH in a few series early in the season.  If it actually works in the SEC then we should see more of it as the season goes on.