The "Hurry-Up No-Huddle" offense

[TulsaHawg]

I have begun reading Gus's book and in a nutshell, I think the best way to describe The "Hurry-Up No-Huddle" (HUNH) would be as a two minute drill offense played for the entire game.

You ever notice how teams go in to the two minute drill and start moving the ball right down the field?  Sometimes don't you wonder why they weren't doing that earlier, because they hadn't been moving the ball they way they had been playing?

A parallel in basketball might be Nolan's famed "40 Minutes of Hell".  His players would push the ball up and down the court for 40 minutes.  The theory was, they would get more shots at the basket, force the other team to make mistakes by playing at a faster tempo than they were accustomed to playing, and wearing down opposing players who were not as well conditioned.

Gus says that in the HUNH, there are three main goals going into each ballgame :

1.  Speed up the game- He said the goal is to snap the ball within 5 seconds of the ref whistling the ball ready for play.

Dave Rader used to run a no huddle offense at TU, but it certainly was not a "Hurry-Up".  Dave's teams would often be well within 10 seconds before snapping the ball.

2.  Lengthen the game-  By this he is referring to the time actually spent "playing".  He says they want to turn the game into 5 quarters, not 4.  He talks about taking chances on offense, defense, and special teams.   He says that he will go for it on 4th down, sometimes in his teams own territory, because he teaches his players that 4th down is just another down to get first down, and they should not panic if they don't get it. HDN got criticised for doing this.  It will be interesting to see how fans respond if Gus does it.  He likes to punt from shotgun formation with his QB doing a quick kick, thus not tipping the other team off as to whether or not they are going for it or kicking.

He says you also need an aggressive defense....one that will blitz and take chances.  Sounds like Gus and Reggie should fit like a hand in a glove.

3.  Mentally and physically wear down your opponent.

IMO, it would seem that if your players are conditioned to run this type of offense, the talent level of an opposing team who had superior talent, might be offset by the better conditioned team.

What do you think?  Can this system work in the SEC?  I say it can, and will.  It may be modified somewhat, but my guess is we will get to see quite a bit of the HUNH.

[Sao Ming]

But have you cracked open the Gunsmoke DVD?   

[Bigmac]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

[gumby013]

Everyone who wants to comment of the workings of Gus' offence philosophy should read the book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1585186546/sr=8-1/qid=1150767665/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9581844-6423354?%5Fencoding=UTF8

You can read up to page 18 for free on Amazon.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

It all boils down to whether we can get first downs.  I remember South Florida came into LR a few years ago with a spread, hurry up offense, and we managed about a 58 to 2 time of possession advantage and totally kicked the sh*t out of them.  They couldn't get a first down to save their lives, and they kept putting their defense on the field without running any clock off at all.  Their defense was totally worn down and they were helpless.  The SEC is notorious for playing great defense and having offenses which will run the ball down your throat, so this strategy definitely has a chance to backfire.

But then again, its better than watching HDN jam his thumb up his *ss over and over again.

[ammohog]

The HUNH has a chance in the SEC. We have the offensive weapons to make it successful, however I am sure that we won't see it in it's entirety this season. We will be watching a combination offense composed of plays from Gus, Wood, and yes Nutt. I want to see a balanced, pass oriented offense as much as the next guy, but there is still a long way to go before that dream is attained.  Look at Herrings defense last year. I think we all would agree that it took him a season to get it close to what he wanted. Belive it or not, the Smoke Draw will still be in the playbook next year!

[Sao Ming]

Anyone have a list of programs that run the HUNH in major conferences?  Texas Tech is all I can think of off the top...plus it's June.  Thanks.

[sowmonella]

TT is pass,pass,pass. Gus is take what the defense gives you. Totally different.

[ErieHog]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

I believe it will work, but in a different way.  The HUNH depends on constant pressure upon the defenders to win matchups.   If there is a skill position player with a decided advantage (a DMac, a FJ, a MM, a Peyton), then  the offense is ideal to exploit that match up repeatedly, as defenses have less opportunity to institute adjustments.

I do think the conditioning advantages will be very marginal, but things like pace,tempo, and field position dictation will be marked improvements over the status quo ante.

[PulledPork]

and they say you were the dumb one......

I'm sure you could have done a little research, found a good article that could have told you that, article man!!


Pulled out...

[Sao Ming]

TT's rushing average was 107 per w/ 25 TD's on the ground.  Total was over 1700 with 1200+ net.  308 rushing attempts to 588 passing.  I'd say that is take what the defense gives you too.  Doing so got them to a 9-3 record, 6-2 in B12.  Why i asked about a list is to see how successful the programs were against good defensive teams in major conf's. 

[CiriusPorker]

SHHHHHHH, you guys, this is the super-duper secret offense...we can't discuss or the opposition will be prepared!

[DOGALUM]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

Please explain to me what the hell "superior talent" has to do with the hurry up no huddle offense.  I don't care if it's a junior high team playing a pro team.....they can still use the hurry up no huddle philosophy.  ANY offense (ie....spread, option, I, Run and shoot, west coast, etc...) can be run in the hurry up no huddle mode. 

[Sao Ming]

Well FL, find me a comparable teamin a major conference to look at then.  Arkansas can't be the only damn one.

[SwinedMelon]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

Why do you say that it won't work? What is your arguement for this? He started using it at Hughes because his talent was inferior and had huge success! Shiloh, too... infact, thats one thing he outlines in his book is that its a great concept for teams with less talent. please explain why it won't work in the SEC. 2 minute drills work- and that's all HUNH is. Read the book, and then tell me it won't work.

[hydrophonic]

Everyone who wants to comment of the workings of Gus' offence philosophy should read the book.

Agreed.

I know Tech runs a spread offense, but I don't believe they are EITHER "hurry up" or "no huddle."  In fairness, I should admit that I only see one or two of their games each year and don't pay that much attention to them.  I did watch almost all of the Cotton Bowl though, and like I said, I don't remember them using the HU,NH.

One thing the HU,NH does that I haven't seen mentioned yet is force the defensive players to line up quickly.  While that might not seem like a big deal, it will force some teams to struggle as their players are concentrating on getting lined up properly instead of their assignments.  Granted, most of the upper echelon SEC teams play with good discipline, but sometimes it only takes 1 of 11 to give up a TD.

I hope we see a lot of the HU,NH this year.

And Sao - WHY can't Arkansas be the only one?  TulsaHawg's comparison to Nolan's philosophy is a good one.  Nolan was one of the first - if not THE first to play that style in a major conference.  There are a lot of advantages to being the first.

[SwinedMelon]

It all boils down to whether we can get first downs.  I remember South Florida came into LR a few years ago with a spread, hurry up offense, and we managed about a 58 to 2 time of possession advantage and totally kicked the sh*t out of them.  They couldn't get a first down to save their lives, and they kept putting their defense on the field without running any clock off at all.  Their defense was totally worn down and they were helpless.  The SEC is notorious for playing great defense and having offenses which will run the ball down your throat, so this strategy definitely has a chance to backfire.

But then again, its better than watching HDN jam his thumb up his *ss over and over again.

If you read the book you will find this in there too... running the HUNH opens up the possibility that you get the crap kicked out of you if the other team is that much better than you... its a risk you take, but an L is an L no matter... nothing ventured nothing gained, right? I thing Herring will be able to hold his own... Malzahn even suggests that you need a pretty salty defense to try HUNH.

[Louis-Hogfan]

Louisville uses a spread offence, and runs the ball 60% of the time.  They don't even have the talent that the Hogs have on the line, and they seem to be doing quite well these days.  If they were to add a no huddle into that game plan, and get a better defence, they would be solid, and awesome.  Bush is not fast, and doesn't hit the hole with any determination, and with the spread offence runs all day long.  If DMAC played for them this year, he would have 2000 yrds, easy.  I am so excited to potentially see a spread offense, huddle or no huddle, I could just wet myself. Throw in a passing game, and some wicked little screen passes to any of our backfield and the Hogs will be more than exciting to watch.  If we can turn it into a no huddle = more plays = more excitement (for us, not them) I am all for it. 

[SwinedMelon]

The real beauty of the HUNH to me is that nopt only do you get more plays (25%+  more per game) but you get that many more repetitions in while practicing... you just wait... if we install the HUNH our offense will look like a well oiled machine- just like Springdale's did. Very few mistakes. Very few sacks. Very few missed blocks. Everyone knows where to go. Timing is dead on. Very few busted plays.
More repetition. Better habits. Better conditioning. I think its going to be awesome for us.

[ClubChubby]

The HUNH has a chance in the SEC. We have the offensive weapons to make it successful, however I am sure that we won't see it in it's entirety this season. We will be watching a combination offense composed of plays from Gus, Wood, and yes Nutt. I want to see a balanced, pass oriented offense as much as the next guy, but there is still a long way to go before that dream is attained.  Look at Herrings defense last year. I think we all would agree that it took him a season to get it close to what he wanted. Belive it or not, the Smoke Draw will still be in the playbook next year!

I think ammo is right. We're not going to see much of the hurryupnohuddle this year. Scott Cain said on dts he thought we'd only run the no huddle 15% of the time in his opinion.
I think this offense can work. But this isn't high school where you can coach your players all summer long, and as much during the season as necessary.
We saw in the spring game the team has a very long way to go in mastering this offense.
I love russell's take on getting more reps in practice. That's bound to help.
I worry about the oline and conditioning. Our recievers couldn't even do it this spring.
'07 will probably be the year gus' full offense is installed.


Hey! I didn't bash nutt even once!

[TulsaHawg]

WIll it work in the SEC?

John Thompson said,  " Coach Malzahn has a system that is a nightmare for defensive coaches!  His hurr-up philosophy is effective at any level."

Joe Ferguson said, " The hurry-up, no-huddle will provide your team and staff a good opportunity of winning every game you play, even with a lack of talent."

Also, HDN has been quoted as saying that he believes in the HUNH and that the Hogs will run it.

[jap66]

The real beauty of the HUNH to me is that nopt only do you get more plays (25%+  more per game) but you get that many more repetitions in while practicing... you just wait... if we install the HUNH our offense will look like a well oiled machine- just like Springdale's did. Very few mistakes. Very few sacks. Very few missed blocks. Everyone knows where to go. Timing is dead on. Very few busted plays.
More repetition. Better habits. Better conditioning. I think its going to be awesome for us.

I am not convinced that the hurry up in practice is a complete given.
I see no advantage to running six plays in a row ........... all wrong.
If a play is run wrong, practice is the place to correct it. And it probably requires pausing to talk about it.
Obviously, the hurry up has to be practiced.

There has been mention of talent. Superior talent is great but it is vulnerable if that talent is not in condition.
To me, the hurry up requires conditioning and depth certainly helps. I worry about depth on our OL.

There is the potential to run more plays which entertains the crowd.
However the defense is a major player in how much time the offense gets.
A 17-14 loss and a 65-54 loss still count the same in the final stat.

[Pork Twain]

Worked pretty good for the Buffalo Bills.  They might not have won it all but they made it to 4 straight Super Bowls.

[Khan]

He started using it at Hughes because his talent was inferior and had huge success!

Malzahn never used the HUNH spread in his time at Hughes. He ran the power I-formation there because he had fewer than 25 players, even on his state runner-up team. Later Malzahn brought the HUNH spread to Shiloh when he got the numbers to do it.

[ColinRagan]

He started using it at Hughes because his talent was inferior and had huge success!

Malzahn never used the HUNH spread in his time at Hughes. He ran the power I-formation there because he had fewer than 25 players, even on his state runner-up team. Later Malzahn brought the HUNH spread to Shiloh when he got the numbers to do it.

I don't believe RussellClaude said anything about spread vs power-I, he just mentioned HUNH, which according to Malzahn's book you can run from any offensive set.

[Conway Cool Daddy]

When Houston first came to Arkansas he used a hurry up offense. It was very effective in putting pressure on the defense even in the SEC. For some reason over the past 5 years we have evolved into a run it down their throats clock burning machine. I guess it was necessary to protect our defense.
Does anyone remember what I am talking about?

[reddogfan]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.   

[Bigmac]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

Please explain to me what the hell "superior talent" has to do with the hurry up no huddle offense.  I don't care if it's a junior high team playing a pro team.....they can still use the hurry up no huddle philosophy.  ANY offense (ie....spread, option, I, Run and shoot, west coast, etc...) can be run in the hurry up no huddle mode. 

Uh oh, I,ve been called out. Are you saying a junior high team could compete with a pro team just because they are running the HUNH. I'm sure they could run it but if the junior high team is not successful with it do you think they will continue to use it. Talent has a whole lot to do with it. Gus was not overly successfull with it until he developed the talent that he needed to be successfull with it. If talent has nothing to do with it the why didn't Gus run it Hughes.
Gus was not immediately successfull with the HUNH when he came to Springdale. He had to develope the players. The word may be more discipline than talent but you have to have some talent in order to be disciplined. Call me out again if you wish but this is just my opinion.

[SwinedMelon]

He started using it at Hughes because his talent was inferior and had huge success!

Malzahn never used the HUNH spread in his time at Hughes. He ran the power I-formation there because he had fewer than 25 players, even on his state runner-up team. Later Malzahn brought the HUNH spread to Shiloh when he got the numbers to do it.

If you read the book, which I have about 4 times since I read some everytime I sit on the throne... you will see that Hughes is where the HUNH was born. He ran it at hughes and took it to the state championship there. But I am sure he had superior talent at Hughes, too.
This is another thing... suppose GM has always had superior talent when he has been successfull. It might be a crazy hairbrained theory, but do you suppose for just one second that he developed that talent?

[Bigmac]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

[SwinedMelon]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

I don't see a single post that sez that Malzahn will have us putting 35+ on every team we play this year. The arguement is based around will we run the HUNH and will it be successful. Nobody thinks GM will pick up winning here like he did at SHS and by the same magnitude.

[Bigmac]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

I don't see a single post that sez that Malzahn will have us putting 35+ on every team we play this year. The arguement is based around will we run the HUNH and will it be successful. Nobody thinks GM will pick up winning here like he did at SHS and by the same magnitude.

As far as the argument - Will we run the HUNH? Some but not as much as we saw at Springdale. I don't see it being AS successful as it was at Springdale based on SEC players and coaches. Remember I said AS successful. Will it be successfull? It will be a learning curve. It will have it's bumps. Do I see it soley winning games? No. I see Gus winning games by implementing multiple offenses. If Gus comes in and only does the HUNH then it will be a long season. There will be some big moments because of the HUNH but there will also be some let downs due to players being new to it and better players across the line playing defense. If we rely only the HUNH then I don't see it being successful next year. Now in couple of years maybe but not next year.

[reddogfan]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

You said that the HUNH would not work in the SEC because it was  successful at SHS only because he had "superior talent" and "there was a difference in talent" ...SHS vs. ALL their opponents (although they went 26-1 in two years).   In other words it would not work in the SEC because there was too much talent in the SEC... we are playing teams better than SHS' opponents...duh! 
  I was just pointing out that the HUNH, while it does not compensate for lack of talent/depth, it is an added weapon that can be used to make our team better and more effecient...again, it would only help our offense against most defenses. No one is arguing whether he will put up the kinds of numbers he put up in h.s. ball.   It's a tool.  A coach strategy.  A game plan.  And it will work at any level if you have a disciplined, well conditioned team.

I just don't see why it would work at the h.s. level and not the college level, if you have the variables I mentioned.

[werehog]

Stanford and the Cal Bears run true spread offenses in the Pac 10, WVU runs a spread offense in the Big East, Northwestern runs a version of the spread and uses a no huddle hurry up offense at times. Urban Meyer ran a spread offense at Utah and he will run it at Florida. It's success depends on having players with superior athletic ability that fit into the system. Don't think that Gus's version of the spread will mesmerize a faster, quicker, superbly conditioned, well-disciplined talent rich team like Southern Cal. Speeding up the game against them will simply allow them to score more quickly. Have we forgotten 28 points in 1:28 seconds so quickly. This Arkansas team has the talent to win at least nine games. It does not have the talent to beat the Trojans unless Arkansas gets every break and USC gets none.

[SwinedMelon]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

I don't see a single post that sez that Malzahn will have us putting 35+ on every team we play this year. The arguement is based around will we run the HUNH and will it be successful. Nobody thinks GM will pick up winning here like he did at SHS and by the same magnitude.

As far as the argument - Will we run the HUNH? Some but not as much as we saw at Springdale. I don't see it being AS successful as it was at Springdale based on SEC players and coaches. Remember I said AS successful. Will it be successfull? It will be a learning curve. It will have it's bumps. Do I see it soley winning games? No. I see Gus winning games by implementing multiple offenses. If Gus comes in and only does the HUNH then it will be a long season. There will be some big moments because of the HUNH but there will also be some let downs due to players being new to it and better players across the line playing defense. If we rely only the HUNH then I don't see it being successful next year. Now in couple of years maybe but not next year.

I think we've found ourselves in agreement. I do think that our practices will become more efficient as we install HUNH, our recruiting will improve from the attractive schemes and the pub GM will get for being a successful OC right outta HS, games will be more energizing for the fans -aka crowd noise, our playcalling will be way mo betta against defenses that just want off the damn field (pant, pant, pant), our offense will be in superior condition to our opponents since we have to practice at the furious pace of the HUNH... man, I just think its a no brainer... HUNH! Of course I do think it takes a while to put in and be 100% efficient like SHS this year, but that's why GM has always been on the 5-year plan.... and I don't know that he's always obtained the superiorly talented players as much as he and his system have developed them... After living in Springdale all my life there has never been so much talent between 2 seperate classes like the past 2 years... I won't accept the irony of that.

[FLKeysGuy]

For those who require a bit more repetition than others...

The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"

[SwinedMelon]

Stanford and the Cal Bears run true spread offenses in the Pac 10, WVU runs a spread offense in the Big East, Northwestern runs a version of the spread and uses a no huddle hurry up offense at times. Urban Meyer ran a spread offense at Utah and he will run it at Florida. It's success depends on having players with superior athletic ability that fit into the system. Don't think that Gus's version of the spread will mesmerize a faster, quicker, superbly conditioned, well-disciplined talent rich team like Southern Cal. Speeding up the game against them will simply allow them to score more quickly. Have we forgotten 28 points in 1:28 seconds so quickly. This Arkansas team has the talent to win at least nine games. It does have the talent to beat the Trojans unless Arkansas gets every break and USC gets none.

We aren't talking about the spread- we are talking about HUNH- two completely different things. +1 for FlaKeys

[reddogfan]

For those who require a bit more repetition than others...

The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"

Actually, the HUNH is not an offense...it is a tool of an offense.  The "spread" is an offense or an offensive philosophy...right?   

[FLKeysGuy]

For those who require a bit more repetition than others...

The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"

Actually, the HUNH is not an offense...it is a tool of an offense.  The "spread" is an offense or an offensive philosophy...right?  

The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.
The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.
The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.
The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.
The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.
The HUNH is not an offense... it is a tool of an offense.

[Bigmac]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

You said that the HUNH would not work in the SEC because it was  successful at SHS only because he had "superior talent" and "there was a difference in talent" ...SHS vs. ALL their opponents (although they went 26-1 in two years).   In other words it would not work in the SEC because there was too much talent in the SEC... we are playing teams better than SHS' opponents...duh! 
  I was just pointing out that the HUNH, while it does not compensate for lack of talent/depth, it is an added weapon that can be used to make our team better and more effecient...again, it would only help our offense against most defenses. No one is arguing whether he will put up the kinds of numbers he put up in h.s. ball.   It's a tool.  A coach strategy.  A game plan.  And it will work at any level if you have a disciplined, well conditioned team.

I just don't see why it would work at the h.s. level and not the college level, if you have the variables I mentioned.

Nobody thinks we will be playing HS teams next year in the SEC. But can you honestly compare HS coaches and their knowledge to defensive coordinators that he will be going up against. I'm not bashing Gus. He will be successful but he will have a more difficult time of it starting out BUT HE WILL BE SUCCESSFUL NEXT YEAR but not soley based on the HUNH. This Gus walking on water is getting old. I'm all for him but come on guys just because he is running the HUNH does not mean the heavens will open up and Almighty will come down to annoint him. We will just have to agree to disagree. IMO (In My Opinion) - in case someone wanted to know what it means - is just that. I gave my reasons, if you disagree so be it. The AAAAA West is not the SEC. If this HUNH is so capable of being a 100% fool proof then why are we not seeing more of it. Granted some teams use it and even some pro teams with some limited success but it will not be the sole reason Gus is successful.

[SwinedMelon]

For those who require a bit more repetition than others...

The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH offense is NOT a "version of the spread"

Actually, the HUNH is not an offense...it is a tool of an offense.  The "spread" is an offense or an offensive philosophy...right?  

You are right, but I think that's being nit-picky... the spread sin't an offense either. Its a class of formations. An offense is just a philosophy, too, IMO. The West-Coast Offense is an offense. I would say that the wishbone or the wing-t are offenses, though... there just isn't a whole lot you can run outta those formations, so they basically represent a running philosophy.

[SwinedMelon]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

You said that the HUNH would not work in the SEC because it was  successful at SHS only because he had "superior talent" and "there was a difference in talent" ...SHS vs. ALL their opponents (although they went 26-1 in two years).   In other words it would not work in the SEC because there was too much talent in the SEC... we are playing teams better than SHS' opponents...duh! 
  I was just pointing out that the HUNH, while it does not compensate for lack of talent/depth, it is an added weapon that can be used to make our team better and more effecient...again, it would only help our offense against most defenses. No one is arguing whether he will put up the kinds of numbers he put up in h.s. ball.   It's a tool.  A coach strategy.  A game plan.  And it will work at any level if you have a disciplined, well conditioned team.

I just don't see why it would work at the h.s. level and not the college level, if you have the variables I mentioned.

Nobody thinks we will be playing HS teams next year in the SEC. But can you honestly compare HS coaches and their knowledge to defensive coordinators that he will be going up against. I'm not bashing Gus. He will be successful but he will have a more difficult time of it starting out BUT HE WILL BE SUCCESSFUL NEXT YEAR but not soley based on the HUNH. This Gus walking on water is getting old. I'm all for him but come on guys just because he is running the HUNH does not mean the heavens will open up and Almighty will come down to annoint him. We will just have to agree to disagree. IMO (In My Opinion) - in case someone wanted to know what it means - is just that. I gave my reasons, if you disagree so be it. The AAAAA West is not the SEC. If this HUNH is so capable of being a 100% fool proof then why are we not seeing more of it. Granted some teams use it and even some pro teams with some limited success but it will not be the sole reason Gus is successful.

Why aren't people using it? I dunno... maybe because its still considered to be so new? Why don't more people use ethanol in their cars?

[Khan]

He started using it at Hughes because his talent was inferior and had huge success!

Malzahn never used the HUNH spread in his time at Hughes. He ran the power I-formation there because he had fewer than 25 players, even on his state runner-up team. Later Malzahn brought the HUNH spread to Shiloh when he got the numbers to do it.

If you read the book, which I have about 4 times since I read some everytime I sit on the throne... you will see that Hughes is where the HUNH was born. He ran it at hughes and took it to the state championship there. But I am sure he had superior talent at Hughes, too.
This is another thing... suppose GM has always had superior talent when he has been successfull. It might be a crazy hairbrained theory, but do you suppose for just one second that he developed that talent?

My point was that he used a very conservative offense at Hughes, and he has adapted his system at Shiloh and every other  stop according to the talent level and numbers.

[Bigmac]

For those who require a bit more repetition than others...

The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"
The HUNH is NOT a "version of the spread"

+1 to FL as well. Guess I got off ona tangent. When you hear the HUNH you want to think spread. You can do the HUNH with the power I as well. Still you will need conditioned players and disciplined players which I hope to see soon.

[reddogfan]

The HUNH will not work in the SEC. I do not plan on seeing very much of it. In HS he ran it through out the game or at least until it was out of reach. Gus was able to do that at Springdale because he had the superior talent. In the SEC there is just to much talent. Now a case can be made that developed that talent however in the SEC there will never be that difference in talent that he had in HS.
I do see Gus using the take what the defense gives you approach very soon and very often. But as far as lining up and getting the ball off in 5 seconds, I just can't see that happening.
Whether he does or does not run the HUNH I do see Gus, Reggie and yes, HDN winning more games than what many folks expect.

What does the other teams "talent" have to do with running a no huddle offense.  If anything, it should help you even more...a "talented" defense can quickly pick up on formations, but if you are snapping the ball within 5 seconds, they have little time to make adjustments and get set.  And there is certainly little time for a defensive coordinator to make adjustments from the sidelines.
The only thing the HUNH requires is well-disciplined, conditioned team with a excellant OC.
I have said this before...if a bunch of 16, 17,18 y.o. kids can do it, so can a group of men who have, I would assume, top position and strength and conditioning coaches.  

You won't have 16,17,18 y.o. kids lined up on the other side of the ball. You will have seasoned college players which some will go on to the NFL. Look, Gus will be successful but IMO he will not put up the offensive numbers that he did at Springdale even with Mitch. Gus will win games but not because he is hiking the ball 5 seconds after it is placed for play. You will not see the same offense this year at UofA that you saw at Springdale last year. It would be fun and I would enjoy seeing successful at the college level but I don't ever see it happening. Again, Gus will win games but not becasue of HUNH that he ran at Springdale. Maybe a modified version of it but not the version at Springdale.

You said that the HUNH would not work in the SEC because it was  successful at SHS only because he had "superior talent" and "there was a difference in talent" ...SHS vs. ALL their opponents (although they went 26-1 in two years).   In other words it would not work in the SEC because there was too much talent in the SEC... we are playing teams better than SHS' opponents...duh! 
  I was just pointing out that the HUNH, while it does not compensate for lack of talent/depth, it is an added weapon that can be used to make our team better and more effecient...again, it would only help our offense against most defenses. No one is arguing whether he will put up the kinds of numbers he put up in h.s. ball.   It's a tool.  A coach strategy.  A game plan.  And it will work at any level if you have a disciplined, well conditioned team.

I just don't see why it would work at the h.s. level and not the college level, if you have the variables I mentioned.

Nobody thinks we will be playing HS teams next year in the SEC. But can you honestly compare HS coaches and their knowledge to defensive coordinators that he will be going up against. I'm not bashing Gus. He will be successful but he will have a more difficult time of it starting out BUT HE WILL BE SUCCESSFUL NEXT YEAR but not soley based on the HUNH. This Gus walking on water is getting old. I'm all for him but come on guys just because he is running the HUNH does not mean the heavens will open up and Almighty will come down to annoint him. We will just have to agree to disagree. IMO (In My Opinion) - in case someone wanted to know what it means - is just that. I gave my reasons, if you disagree so be it. The AAAAA West is not the SEC. If this HUNH is so capable of being a 100% fool proof then why are we not seeing more of it. Granted some teams use it and even some pro teams with some limited success but it will not be the sole reason Gus is successful.

I agree with you 100%...except for one point.  Yes, I would compare the "HS coach's knowledge" with that of the defensive coordinators he will be going against.  He is good...you will see. 

[Bigmac]

By HS coaches I meant the DCs in HS. I'm with you 100% that Gus will impress but there will be a learning curve.

[SwinedMelon]

Let me summarize this thread... if you haven't read the book do so... THEN tell me it won't werk based on logical arguements and the skills you learned in philosophy class. Don't just tell everyone that "this is not highschool, its the SEC, therefore HUNH won't work."

That's simply not an arguement, its a disjointed opinion based on skeptisism (sp?).

I don't blame anyone for being skeptical.

[reddogfan]

By HS coaches I meant the DCs in HS. I'm with you 100% that Gus will impress but there will be a learning curve.

Okay, you just made a statement that has baffled me since the day GM was hired...what is this "learning curve."  Do people think GM has never watched or analyzed film of a college or pro game?  I can understand the "learning curve" for the recruiting process, NCAA regs, etc.  But as far as the game is concerned, it's a game that he has studied his entire adult life.  There are a few people A LOT more knowledgable than any of us who have watched his career and abilities for many years who have stated he his is a great coach...he has proved himself exceptional every step.  I guess this step could be the one that is his downfall, but I doubt it.

[SwinedMelon]

By HS coaches I meant the DCs in HS. I'm with you 100% that Gus will impress but there will be a learning curve.

Okay, you just made a statement that has baffled me since the day GM was hired...what is this "learning curve."  Do people think GM has never watched or analyzed film of a college or pro game?  I can understand the "learning curve" for the recruiting process, NCAA regs, etc.  But as far as the game is concerned, it's a game that he has studied his entire adult life.  There are a few people A LOT more knowledgable than any of us who have watched his career and abilities for many years who have stated he his is a great coach...he has proved himself exceptional every step.  I guess this step could be the one that is his downfall, but I doubt it.

I think DMAC and the recruiting class of 2006 will buy him some loft on that learning curve... plus, I think he's got a great defensive coordinator on the other side of the ball that sure as hell isn't afraid to challenge him. He'll be going against Herring in practice, and I think our D will be solid.

[PorkSoda]

What I like about the HUNH and our team is that with McFadden, and Felix etc. we can move from I-form to spread without a huddle and without the defense being able to make substitutions.  that could give us a better chance of creating mis-matches or the defense not being in the correct formation in order to stop the coming play.