Why so much emphasis on Texas recruiting.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Northern Louisiana needs to be mined as hard as East Texas.
Arkansas is not new to this area, just because of Michael Smith.
Some names from N LA in the past: Anthony Lucas, Joe Ferguson, Michael Williams, Michael Shepherd, Marvin Caston

[Chorizo Hogriguez]

got to recruit Texas!

[jabohog]

Data from 1963 to 2016 in recruiting:

45 percent of all players since 1963 come from Arkansas. Texas is second, then Oklahoma, Louisiana and Missouri.

The 60s and 70s footprint were mostly Arkansas border states. In the 80s recruiting started to branch out to places that had not been recruited. Florida and Southern Cal. have been contributors in the last 20 years.

Most of the in-state recruits have historically come from the I-30 and I-40 areas. The Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, New Orleans, Birmingham, Ala., Atlanta, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, and OKC/Tulsa areas have been fertile outside the state.

OL, RB, and LB has been the top recruited positions in the last 50 years.

[Augustus]

This thread is laughable.

"I need groceries, but why would I want to go to Harps or Kroger? ...WalMart or Dollar General should do just fine."

[HoggyCat]

Why don't you tell us that Alabama signed recruits from 22 different states? I'm sure you can fit that in SOMEWHERE.....

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Why don't you tell us that Alabama signed recruits from 22 different states? I'm sure you can fit that in SOMEWHERE.....

25 different states outside of Alabama from 2002-2016.

18 for Arkansas (outside of Arkansas) over that same period of time.

[bphi11ips]

This thread is laughable.

"I need groceries, but why would I want to go to Harps or Kroger? ...WalMart or Dollar General should do just fine."

Why go to Harps or Kroger and buy the store brands? 

[PonderinHog]

Why go to Harps or Kroger and buy the store brands?

'Cause Jameis stole all the lobster!   

[bphi11ips]

'Cause Jameis stole all the lobster!   

Must have eaten all the crablegs!

[Smashmouth2004]

There is a lot of talk about Coach Morris's ability to recruit in Texas and I wonder why that is so important. Texas has 77 players on their roster from Texas with the remainder (22) from 10 States (they finished 6-6) Arkansas recruited in 12 States & we know how that finished. Alabama, the most consistent team in Major college football recruited in 22 States with 13 players from Texas. Almost all of Coach Morris's SMU team came from Texas with and oddity of 1 from NJ. Alabama, the most consistently winning team in college football recruited in 22 different states. Maybe we don't reach out far enough. Have a great time tearing this apart.

Alabama recruits national because they go after 5 star players. If I'm correct, of all the teams in this years playoff, in the last 5 years Bama signed 27 five star players while the other 3 teams signed 21 combined.

[bphi11ips]

Alabama recruits national because they go after 5 star players. If I'm correct, of all the teams in this years playoff, in the last 5 years Bama signed 27 five star players while the other 3 teams signed 21 combined.

A handful of schools can recruit nationally. We are not one of them. Alabama right now can point and click.

[Paul]

10 highest-paid 5A, 6A prep football coaches in Texas, whats Funny D2 champ A&M-Commerce head coach Colby Carthel makes $122k base salary, not including any Bonuses. .

    Henry Carter, Austin Lake Travis ($155,156)
    John Snelson, Dickinson ($135,925)
    Randy Allen, Dallas Highland Park ($133,875)
    Gary Joseph, Katy ($133,102)
    Todd Dodge, Austin Westlake ($131,600)
    Donald Clayton, Katy Cinco Ranch ($128,102)
    Todd McVey, Katy Thompkins ($125,762)
    Gerry Stanford, Texarkana Texas ($125,000)
    Clint Hartman, Midland Lee ($124,720)
    Reginald Samples, Duncanville ($124,557)

In his 10th season, Henry Carter at Austin Lake Travis is the state's highest-paid prep football coach at $155,156 annually. The Star-Telegram reports that Carter's salary is $30,000 more than the school's principal and almost three times the average teacher's salary at the school.

The average salary for a high school instructor in Texas is $55,000 a year. For a high school football coach, the average annual salary is a shade under $100,000.

what's your point?  Kevin Kelley makes more than everyone on your list

[JenksHawg]

There is a lot of talk about Coach Morris's ability to recruit in Texas and I wonder why that is so important. Texas has 77 players on their roster from Texas with the remainder (22) from 10 States (they finished 6-6) Arkansas recruited in 12 States & we know how that finished. Alabama, the most consistent team in Major college football recruited in 22 States with 13 players from Texas. Almost all of Coach Morris's SMU team came from Texas with and oddity of 1 from NJ. Alabama, the most consistently winning team in college football recruited in 22 different states. Maybe we don't reach out far enough. Have a great time tearing this apart.

Cause we're stuck in the 80's in Football when we did that and it worked

[Hogwild]

Here is an article the was in the New Orleans' paper this morning, dealing with how important Texas recruiting is to LSU. Hits on a lot of things brought up in this thread.



http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_6d034bca-da47-11e7-bc1c-2f589ab2fdb3.html

[oldhawg]

Cause we're stuck in the 80's in Football when we did that and it worked

The national approach that Arkansas has had the last few years has not worked out so well.  The Razorbacks are not a program that can recruit on its name only like some others.

A focused, more localized approach that relies on coaches building relationships with high school coaches and players will probably be more successful at this time for Arkansas.  Oklahoma has a lifetime history of recruiting like this.

If that 1980's philosophy in recruiting that you refer to would have been maintained, perhaps today Arkansas would have a football program more like Oklahoma's than Kansas's.

[Hugo Bezdek]

Cause we're stuck in the 80's in Football when we did that and it worked

There's a reason it worked.

[bphi11ips]

Here is an article the was in the New Orleans' paper this morning, dealing with how important Texas recruiting is to LSU. Hits on a lot of things brought up in this thread.



http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_6d034bca-da47-11e7-bc1c-2f589ab2fdb3.html

Great discussion and information that applies equally to Arkansas. Thanks for posting.

[195bc]

Texas produces the most D1 talent.

Florida and Cali are second and third.

Florida produces the most NFL talent.  Texas is third.

Louisiana produces the most NFL talent per capita.

Texas is not in the top 10.


So, something I have said for a while...Texas High School football is overrated.  I would take kids from South Louisiana and South Florida over a kid from anywhere in Texas.

Now, it isn't that simple, there are exceptions to the rule.  However, the type of speed and anger that a kid from Louisiana plays with is not what you get from a kid from Texas...as a rule.

Just my opinion.

Still we need to get kids from Texas, because there is some great talent there.  They just aren't as tough, as a rule, as a kid that plays out in the cane fields or the marsh.  Again, just my opinion.

I tend to agree with you, but I think you may be off a little on the opinion of the potential superiority of the Florida athlete to the Texas athlete (whether that's from genetics, coaching, or scheme). Since 68% of NFL players are black (we'll chalk this up to genetics), let's consider the ethnicity demographics of Texas and Florida. Texas has about 3.34 million black residents. Florida has about 3.44 million black residents, so Florida has about 100,000 more black residents (that's more than the number of black residents of Little Rock). Texas currently has 331 3-star-plus athletes in the 2018 class, with 44 being 4-star-plus. Florida currently has 322 3-star-plus 2018 recruits, with 65 being 4-star-plus. As of 2015, Texas had 181 current NFL players while Florida had 204. So when comparing the number of top recruits to ethnicity, the numbers are actually very similar. The number of 4-star-plus recruits is the big difference, which is also probably directly related to demographics and that fact that Texas has a far larger population and more non-black athletes that don't reach 4-star level.   
Louisiana is interesting. It has a black population of 1,500,000 (44% of FL and 45% of TX), yet the state produces a far lower ratio of top recruits (92 3-star-plus recruits and only 12 4-star-plus recruits). And while Louisiana has a black population that is approaching half of FL and TX, there are only 58 current NFL players from Louisiana (as of 2015). So an oversimplification would be that Louisiana has 50% the black population of TX and FL but producers only on 30% of the NFL players that those other states produce and 25% of the 3-star-plus recruits of each of those other states.
So according to the numbers, going after the recruits of Texas is not much different than going after the recruits of Florida ... especially if you're targeting the black athletes of each state.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here is an article the was in the New Orleans' paper this morning, dealing with how important Texas recruiting is to LSU. Hits on a lot of things brought up in this thread.



http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_6d034bca-da47-11e7-bc1c-2f589ab2fdb3.html

That's a great read.

[Ugly Uncle]

195bc

That was an excellent break down.  Very interesting.

[DeltaBoy]

We have to recruit Memphis , Louisiana and Texas to be successful. And Cherry pick some from Tulsa , Mizoo and Miss.

[195bc]

195bc

That was an excellent break down.  Very interesting.

Now how in the world Belle Glade, FL (with 17,000 people, 50% being black) has produced nearly 50 NFL players blows my mind. I think those guys may be bigger, faster and stronger, at a higher ratio, than any group of people anywhere in the world. There is something there.

[elviscat]

Guys, it's simple. The best high school programs in the country are: Texas, Florida, California and Ohio.
Then we have to do a good job in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri and other bordering states.

[IronHog]

Now how in the world Belle Glade, FL (with 17,000 people, 50% being black) has produced nearly 50 NFL players blows my mind. I think those guys may be bigger, faster and stronger, at a higher ratio, than any group of people anywhere in the world. There is something there.

They Samoan?

[bphi11ips]

Guys, it's simple. The best high school programs in the country are: Texas, Florida, California and Ohio.
Then we have to do a good job in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri and other bordering states.

Might have something to do with the 100,000,000 people who live there.

[Paul]

There's a reason it worked.

a Big reason is we weren't in the SEC. I went to the Sugar Bowl after the 80 season with high hopes we could play with Bama. I was shocked how much bigger & faster their players were .  Fortunately, Bear put in his scrubs midway 3rd qtr & they still dominated us. Our success in the SWC was a mirage because we only played 1 (TX) or maybe 2 decent teams per year.

[pigture perfect]

Texans are not genetically superior to anyone. They just have a greater number of people who are passionate about football.

[BR]

Here is an article the was in the New Orleans' paper this morning, dealing with how important Texas recruiting is to LSU. Hits on a lot of things brought up in this thread.



http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_6d034bca-da47-11e7-bc1c-2f589ab2fdb3.html

. Thank you , great read

[bphi11ips]

I agree with this but many on here do have that old SWC mentality of thinking Texas is the be all end all for Arkansas recruiting and they can't let it go. Coach Morris is doing a good job of recruiting Texas but just as much emphasis needs to be put on SEC states like Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Missouri.

There is do much fail in here since this afternoon.

[ChicoHog]

Guys, it's simple. The best high school programs in the country are: Texas, Florida, California and Ohio.
Then we have to do a good job in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri and other bordering states.

You forgot Georgia.  They are now 4th after the big three of CA, FL and TX in producing NFL players.  Ohio is fifth I believe.  Ohio St as the only power 5 program in Ohio has a huge advantage there and then they cherry pick from other areas like this year they have a verbal from the number one player in OK.  OU and OSU cannot let them do that consistently.  Hopefully for them that is an aberration. 

[jvanhorn]

A handful of schools can recruit nationally. We are not one of them. Alabama right now can point and click.

Which is why it is stupid to say Alabama cheats.  You only cheat when you need to.  Alabama's only problem is deciding which 4 and 5 star players they want because a lot more would sign than Alabama has room for on the roster.   That is the way we got a great player out of Alabama a couple of year ago.  They basically told him he was the odd man out, sorry.

[jvanhorn]

I would add that:

Decatur, AL      519 miles
Beaumont, TX   527 miles
Killeen, TX        469 miles
Amarillo, TX      475 miles

You make a good point. Lots of talent contained within that 500 or so mile mark.

Springfield MO I believe is damn near as big as the Little Rock metro area

[bphi11ips]

Springfield MO I believe is damn near as big as the Little Rock metro area

Depends on how you define damn near, but Springfield has a significant population.  It is almost exactly the same as the NWA MSA according to the 2010 census.  It is also very rural and includes many small communities like Branson and Rafe Peavey's home town, Bolivar.  According to many on Hogville in threads concerning Peavey, high school football in the area is horrible.  The African American population is about 4%, or roughly 21,000.

It's interesting what you learn from research when people ask silly questions like why Arkansas should recruit in Texas.  I learned that 68% of players in the NFL are African American.  I learned the population and demographic makeup of many different MSAs and CSAs.  Here are some interesting numbers:

NWA (525K) plus Fort Smith (280K) MSAs = 805,000 total; AA = 21,000
LR MSA (735K) + Pine Bluff + Searcy (CSA) = 905,000; AA = 205,000
Jonesboro MSA = 120,000; AA = 8,500
Springfield MSA = 520,000; AA = 21,000
Tulsa CSA = 1,150,000; AA = 97,000
DFW = 7,233,000; AA = 1,113,000
Shreveport MSA = 557,000; AA = 160,000
Monroe MSA = 170,000; AA = 57,000
Louisiana (entire state) = 4,670,000; AA = 1,495,000
New Orleans MSA = 1,250,000; AA = 406,000
Baton Rouge MSA = 802,000; AA = 441,000 (55%)
Houston = 6,500,000; AA = 1,625,000
Nashville = 1,865,000; AA = 525,000

Didn't know that DFW MSA is now the 4th largest in the US or the largest in the South or that its population has grown by more than 3,000,000 since Arkansas last won a conference championship in 1989.

Arkansas's population includes about 450,000 African Americans, over 400,000 of whom live in the southern half of the state.  The demographic makeup of southern Arkansas is similar to the South in general.  The demographics of the northern half of Arkansas is very much like the demographics of the Central Midwest.  There are 4 times as many Native Americans in Benton Couhty as African Americans.

About 60% of the African American population of Louisiana reside in the Baton Rouge or New Orleans MSAs.  Baton Rouge is a 9 hour drive from Fayetteville.  New Orleans is about 9.5 hours.  Dallas is 6 hours.  Houston is 8.5 hours.  Nashville to Fayetteville is 7.75 hours.       

All good info if you are looking at Arkansas football history and recruiting in 2018.

[factchecker]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/12/18/16780636/best-recruits-2018-state-rankings

[Peter Porker]

Which is why it is stupid to say Alabama cheats.  You only cheat when you need to.  Alabama's only problem is deciding which 4 and 5 star players they want because a lot more would sign than Alabama has room for on the roster.   That is the way we got a great player out of Alabama a couple of year ago.  They basically told him he was the odd man out, sorry.

The evidence suggests they do cheat.

[bphi11ips]

The evidence suggests they do cheat.

Alabama is one of the most heavily penalized programs in NCAA football.  Just an example of what is out there:

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/15-unethical-college-football-programs

[MuskogeeHogFan]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/12/18/16780636/best-recruits-2018-state-rankings

Based on that we share borders with states that contain 85 Blue Chip Recruits(including Arkansas's 2). That's good news but Florida alone has 65. Add their border states of Georgia and Alabama and that's 115 Blue Chippers in what is a smaller geographic area than that of Arkansas and the combined areas of the states we border.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The evidence suggests they do cheat.

I would guess that they had to do more of it when Saban first arrived. Now that they are winning at a high level every year, their reputation alone draws more big time recruits. I'm not saying that they don't find ways around the rules now, I'm just saying that they probably have to do it less now than they did before.

[bphi11ips]

Based on that we share borders with states that contain 85 Blue Chip Recruits(including Arkansas's 2). That's good news but Florida alone has 65. Add their border states of Georgia and Alabama and that's 115 Blue Chippers in what is a smaller geographic area than that of Arkansas and the combined areas of the states we border.

It will be interesting in five years to compare that list to the 2021, 2022 and 2023 NFL drafts and see how accurately it predicts the numbers.

[Pork Twain]

For the same reason Nebraska and Oklahomo made sure they recruited Texass.  It is not rocket surgery.  All this talk about the intensity and look of a FL recruit vs a TX recruit is pure crap.

[Peter Porker]

I would guess that they had to do more of it when Saban first arrived. Now that they are winning at a high level every year, their reputation alone draws more big time recruits. I'm not saying that they don't find ways around the rules now, I'm just saying that they probably have to do it less now than they did before.

Just last year they signed a 5 star JUCO DE and the day after he posted a picture of him with a brand new Dodge. Coincidence?

[Inhogswetrust]

The evidence suggests they do cheat.

They have been caught cheating big time before.

[Peter Porker]

Texas produces a lot of NFL talent but they are not the top state when it comes to ratio. Here's an interesting link from 2016.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/09/which_states_produce_the_most.html

[Deep Shoat]

Texas produces a lot of NFL talent but they are not the top state when it comes to ratio. Here's an interesting link from 2016.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/09/which_states_produce_the_most.html

Ratio is pretty irrelevant when you are, at best, the number 2 team in a state (We want to be in Louisiana).  We need raw numbers, which Texas provides.

[bphi11ips]

Texas produces a lot of NFL talent but they are not the top state when it comes to ratio. Here's an interesting link from 2016.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/09/which_states_produce_the_most.html

If there was a discussion of ratios in that article I missed it.

Deep Shoat is right. For recruiting purposes ratio is irrelevant. Numbers and distance from campus is what's important. To illustrate that, Arkansas's ratio is comparatively good, at about 10 players per million population.  This is a better ratio than the top five states. Louisiana is better at 13 players per million. It's African American population is also 32%, while Arkansas's is 15.6%. 

These numbers are pretty easy to analyze. If you don't understand why DFW, central and south Arkansas, northeast Oklahoma, and northern Louisiana are so important to Arkansas recruiting, then there's not much more any of us can say.  Go ahead and think we're all wrong, along with the BOT, the GOBN, and CCM.

[Con el Cerdos]

A handful of schools can recruit nationally. We are not one of them. Alabama right now can point and click.

What's really disappointing is we haven't successfully recruited our state in a while either.

[factchecker]

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_0c118b6c-db1c-11e7-a3a2-cb30bc5f1734.html

[IronHog]

Which is why it is stupid to say Alabama cheats.  You only cheat when you need to.  Alabama's only problem is deciding which 4 and 5 star players they want because a lot more would sign than Alabama has room for on the roster.   That is the way we got a great player out of Alabama a couple of year ago.  They basically told him he was the odd man out, sorry.

They cheat and they roid too

[Hogwild]

check out TCU's numbers

[IronHog]

check out TCU's numbers

If you can recruit like TCU you can be AT LEAST 3-4th in the SEC WEST most years