What makes Saban great got him beat tonight

[ChicoHog]

11 straight failed 3rd downs (and a 12th where they converted on 4th) lost that game.

Agree.  Hurts did not play well the last two games, especially throwing accuracy.  And then Bama dropped a couple catchable balls and Clemson played well.  They kept him contained pretty well except for the last TD scramble. 

[Pork Twain]

I thought they got beat because they finally faced a team that was almost their equal but led by several Srs on both offense and defense and Bama's Freshmen qb was finally exposed as not being able to hit intermediate to deep throws and losing their workhorse RB in the third.

[ChicoHog]

Hard to play man w the way offense is played by teams like Clemson with so many behind line throws with blocking happening downfield legally and the rub plays and with college officials never calling push offs. Saban man D has relied on being physical. But teams like Clemson can exploit it.  It is still very good though.  Took a qb like Watson to do it. 

A voice of reason on Hogville?  Say it ain't so (Forest City) Joe.

Bama has had great DBs for years.  It is one of the reasons their pass rush is so effective because they can man up on the outside.  Plenty of them in the NFL from Bama. 

[Atlhogfan1]

A voice of reason on Hogville?  Say it ain't so (Forest City) Joe.

Bama has had great DBs for years.  It is one of the reasons their pass rush is so effective because they can man up on the outside.  Plenty of them in the NFL from Bama.

College officials allow way more contact and handfighting than do NFL officials which is strange as they favor offense in nearly every other decision.  This helps Bama except in extremely rare instances.  OM has had success vs Bama because of big wr's who can go get the ball and mobile qb's who can also throw those back shoulder fades which are impossible to cover if thrown well and wr makes a play on the ball.  Clemson was one of the few who could. 

[Jackrabbit Hog]

A voice of reason on Hogville?  Say it ain't so (Forest City) Joe.

Bama has had great DBs for years.  It is one of the reasons their pass rush is so effective because they can man up on the outside.  Plenty of them in the NFL from Bama.

Fitzpatrick may end up being the best of all of them.

[Pigsknuckles]

You know, its hard to take seriously criticism of a guy with a fist full of NC rings.

The guy knows what he is about-- and it is winning *remarkably* big, in an era geared towards preventing sustained success.

Yep. Last night, both Clemson and Alabama would have handily beaten any other team in the country. We got the best two teams playing for a National Championship, and somebody had to lose. This time, the system worked.

[Atlhogfan1]

Yep. Last night, both Clemson and Alabama would have handily beaten any other team in the country. We got the best two teams playing for a National Championship, and somebody had to lose. This time, the system worked.

And the semifinals were pointless.  But don't get me going on this playoff thing. 

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Yep. Last night, both Clemson and Alabama would have handily beaten any other team in the country. We got the best two teams playing for a National Championship, and somebody had to lose. This time, the system worked.

I was thinking that same thing immediately after the two semifinal games.  When clicking on all cylinders, I don't see how anyone could argue that those weren't the best two teams in the country by far.  Glad it worked out that way.

[code red]

IMHO.....Bama lost because D. Watson made some throws.  Throws, that only his guys had a chance to catch.  Bama db's were right there to make plays but....those WR just beat'em.  Bama db's weren't getting their heads around.

[Atlhogfan1]

IMHO.....Bama lost because D. Watson made some throws.  Throws, that only his guys had a chance to catch.  Bama db's were right there to make plays but....those WR just beat'em.  Bama db's weren't getting their heads around.

Playing man press coverage is the toughest thing to do in football behind playing qb. 

[HotlantaHog]

Alabama scored 31 points. And unlike every other game this year, their defense didn't score. You would figure that would be enough to win.

It had nothing to do with replacing Kiffin. The offense was terrible against Washington. The offense was dramatically better in this game from the previous one.

[12247]

A game where just a little bit of adjustment can make the difference.  The BAMA D lost just a 1/4 step late due to fatigue, caused by having to stay on the field too many plays.  This allowed the Clemson O to start functioning and scoring.  The BAMA D was slower due to the BAMA O not being able to control the ball, going 0-11 or maybe more on third down at one point.  I believe the difference was Sark not realizing his 2nd string RB, can't remember his name, had fresh legs and good moves.  They would give the ball to him on 1st down, he would get 3 to 7 yards and then they would go the air on the next play were they were not being successful, then again on 3rd down were they were not being successful.  This served to shorten the time the BAMA  D had to rest and the longer time the Clemson O had to manufacturer TDs, which they did.  I believe if you give the ball to BAMA RB#2 a few more times, he heats up, the Clemson D, which was very, very good, gets beat on a little more, time goes off the clock, and BAMA wins another NC. 

In any event, we got the opportunity to see a major event at its best, two of the very best ever fight it out.  I agree that Clemson scored 2 TDs on plays that are illegal picks when the refs see it correctly.  I also agree that BAMA did their usual ride the WR to death for 3 quarters and would have in the 4th quarter too if they could have kept up.  They were just a 1/4 step tired and lost.

There should be no shame in losing that game last night.  I wanted BAMA to win due to the SEC thing but Clemson earned the win. 

[Hawgndaaz]

I have said for years that Saban is not great. he is a good solid coach with a lot of great players.just look at the record at Michigan State .he had Nutt like numbers.

Saban isn't great?

Good grief. The man has created a dynasty, and already won 5 rings. He will win 2-3 more before he retires. He's THE best coach in all of CFB right now and very, very few people disagree with that.

You are seriously the most misinformed yet overvalued person on this board.

[Fatty McGee]

I have said for years that Saban is not great. he is a good solid coach with a lot of great players.just look at the record at Michigan State .he had Nutt like numbers.

It's nice to see someone admit they've been wrong for years.  Takes a big man to do that.

[The_Iceman]

Bama needs to go back to a pro style, downhill running, play action pass system. 

[Pork Twain]

I have said for years that Saban is not great. he is a good solid coach with a lot of great players.just look at the record at Michigan State .he had Nutt like numbers.

That is just one more reason to think you are a moron.

[Soooie21]

Great game...loved it...

[code red]

Saban >>>>>>> than the field...period.

[hawgXi]

That Clemson D shut out THE Ohio state. They aint too bad. Sark called a good game I thought.

brent venables called a better game & notched his 2nd NC as a DC

[TNhawgfan]

Bama gavevup 511 yards. I dont think firing Kiffin had anything to do with that

Are you serious? If the offense does anything and strings together first downs in the second half, the defense gets to rest and doesn't give up all those yards. Sark had as much to do with the loss as enos did in our bowl game

[#1 STUNNA]

The gap between Watson and Hurt is what lost Bama the game and won clemson the game.

[Atlhogfan1]

The gap between Watson and Hurt is what lost Bama the game and won clemson the game.

Sr vs Fr.  Hurts obviously has "it" when it comes to the mental part of being a qb under pressure.  But he made too many afraid to lose the game plays till he let go of that 3rd down pass on their final possession.  He is a playmaker.  Don't know if was him or the game plan but he seemed restricted.  If it was the plan, it was a mistake especially when Bo left.  Quick to tuck and run or throw it away last night.  He'll get better unfortunately for us. 

Watson can make all of the throws and is athletic.  Looked like an NFL qb, which he will be of course soon, with his accuracy downfield under pressure and ball placement. 

[TNhawgfan]

The gap between Watson and Hurt is what lost Bama the game and won clemson the game.

And the fact that hurts was sec offensive poy and not someone like josh dobbs shows voters went off team record and not individual stats

[Sportster365]

Did you watch the Washington game... the offensive play calling was horrible. Completely 1 dimensional. The offense under Sarkisian looked totally unprepared and confused on many possessions last night.

I think the freshman handled the pressure quite well. He didn't get rattled and start turning the ball over. The offense was put in a bind. I'm positive Kiffin didn't leave Sarkisian his playbook when he left so trying to pickup on the timing and play selections of this new coordinator in a weeks time for a true freshman must have been difficult. It was obvious he wasn't familiar with the play selections and when you consider the speed of the game at this level.... it was a good thing they managed to do as well as they did.

Although the playcalling against Washington was horrible, the offense didn't nearly look as unprepared and confused as they did at times last night. I don't think I ever seen a Saban coached Alabama team look so unprepared and a Saban coached defense actually getting worn down by an opposing teams offense. In hindsight, maybe just maybe keeping Kiffin around for one more game would have help keep the continuity and chemistry of the offense.

[longpig]

The gap between Watson and Hurt is what lost Bama the game and won clemson the game.

Exactly.  Watson's incredible play was nothing like the 17 interception season he'd had and Bama was without their QB whisperer for the first game in 3 years.  What Kiffin did with a first year QB each of 3 seasons with the Tide is phenomenal, but he took it with him.  Alabama D didn't get anywhere near the turnovers it did all season either.


You know Kiffin smiled a little seeing Saban lose without him.

[311Hog]

i am actually surprised Watson survived the game.  That is a taste of what it is like to play in the SEC you get heliocopter'd not once but twice....

[HawgTide]

Who cares? he will run through the sorry sec again,and lose to someone like Ohio state or Michigan.any time the talent gap is close.Saban has a good chance of losing.Ohio State,and now Clemson. he should have lost to Clemson last year.

Wow. You may watch football but it's obvious you don't understand it. So much dumb in your posts

[S.A.D.C]

I have said for years that Saban is not great. he is a good solid coach with a lot of great players.just look at the record at Michigan State .he had Nutt like numbers.

Then you have been wrong for years.  5 National Championships.  This isn't worth arguing.  Don't forget:  in college the coaches get the players.  Having great players doesn't diminish him as a coach, it is to his credit. Getting the best players and coaching them well is actually the definition of a great college coach. 

[elviscat]

Defense on the field to long. He wore them out.

[S.A.D.C]

Alabama scored 31 points. And unlike every other game this year, their defense didn't score. You would figure that would be enough to win.

It had nothing to do with replacing Kiffin. The offense was terrible against Washington. The offense was dramatically better in this game from the previous one.

Not scoring a non-offensive TD was a huge deal in this game.  Because that has been Bama's calling card this year. 

But the offense, while better than the Washington game, was still not good.  Don't confuse scoring 31 points with the offense being good. 
- only 16 first downs (Clemson had 31)
- 2-15 on 3rd down
- Crushed in TOP
- Got 2 turn overs
- Dominated field position

The offense for Bama was just not good.  That Clemson defense was legit. 

[HF#1]

Jalen Hurts got them beat.

[Sportster365]

The Hogs could have beaten Bama last night.

The 13-0 Bama squad coordinated by Kiffin pre-Florida Atlantic would have dismantled Clemson. Overall in comparison to Alabama's season, Clemson had far too many close calls this year for me to say they were the best team in college football this year. Last night maybe, but for the overall season NO.


Could this be the beginning of the end of the Saban reign over college football

[upperdeck_hawg]

Are you serious? If the offense does anything and strings together first downs in the second half, the defense gets to rest and doesn't give up all those yards. Sark had as much to do with the loss as enos did in our bowl game

Sark called the plays. The freshman qb couldnt hit the side of a barn last night. That and that Clemson D was pretty good. As far as our bowl game, Enos didnt turn the ball over 3 consecutive times in the 2nd half.

[Sportster365]

Jalen Hurts got them beat.

There were a few critical drops as well. In this situation its imperative for his receivers to help the young freshman out. Due to the fact that he wasn't completely comfortable with the play selections, he didn't show enough patience to allow plays to develop. The timing and rhythm of Sarkisians offense vs the speed of BV's defense made it a long night for the Freshman.

[S.A.D.C]

The Hogs could have beaten Bama last night.

The 13-0 Bama squad coordinated by Kiffin pre-Florida Atlantic would have dismantled Clemson. Overall in comparison to Alabama's season, Clemson had far too many close calls this year for me to say they were the best team in college football this year. Last night maybe, but for the overall season NO.


Could this be the beginning of the end of the Saban reign over college football

I see your crazy Forrest City Joe and I raise you...

[thefisher]

Bama needs to go back to a pro style, downhill running, play action pass system.

Agreed.  If Bama had run the ball on first down more .... and run it more overall .... they win this thing going away.. Throwing on first down put them way behind the chains much of the second half.  They also failed to milk down the clock on their last couple of possessions.

Funny .... it was Alabama not playing Nick Saban style football that cost them that game in my opinion.

[hawganatic]

I have no dog in the hunt but Clemson scored 2 of it's second half TDs on "Illegal Pick" offensive pass interference plays that weren't called by the officials. That's why Bama lost. Saban was mad as a hatter and had good reason to be.

You really think the football game was decided on just two plays?

[hawganatic]

I have said for years that Saban is not great. he is a good solid coach with a lot of great players.just look at the record at Michigan State .he had Nutt like numbers.

He was a first time head coach at a school on probation. 

Don't understand why you want to keep mentioning his record at a school from 20 years ago.  You understand that people generally get better at what they do with experience, don't you?

[hoglady]

Agreed.  If Bama had run the ball on first down more .... and run it more overall .... they win this thing going away.. Throwing on first down put them way behind the chains much of the second half.  They also failed to milk down the clock on their last couple of possessions.

Funny .... it was Alabama not playing Nick Saban style football that cost them that game in my opinion.

For sure - they missed Scarbrough but the other 2 backs aren't chopped liver.
Way too much Jalen Hurts and way too little of the Bama backs.
Even a few more designed runs for Hurts would have helped.

[12247]

There were 2 or 3 small things that could have gone different and also served up a different winner.  If BAMA runs their #2 RB more in the 4th Qtr.  He had fresh legs and good moves.  If BAMA runs Hurts more.  If BAMA rolls out Hurts more.  If the refs call either or both the WR picks that Clemson performed that ended up in touchdowns.

On the other side, if BAMA's O keeps the ball another 5 minutes in the game and lets the D rest.  Remember what the BAMA D did to #4 Watson the first half when they were all fresh.  Watson was getting physically hurt and he showed it.  If the refs call the defensive interference several times when they could have on BAMA, this game changes sides earlier than it finally did.  If the BAMA D wasn't gassed there late, after the BAMA O and Hurts finally got a TD late, then they keep Clemson out of the endzone at the end.

But it all came out like it did and I cannot say either team got cheated out of it or into it.  At the end of regulation, Clemson had more points and the winner took all.

[KennyForAD]

Uh, if your offense can't stay on the field, then your defense gets gassed. Yes, it had an impact on the outcome.

I agree.  Ball control offenses allow the D to stay strong.  I thought Saban was making a mistake moving away from his traditional offense, but he's had a lot of success the last three years, and could easily have won last night.  Can't call it a mistake.

To those claiming Saban isn't a great coach:   You're nuts.  He's the best in his era and one of the greatest of all time.

[Inhogswetrust]

I completely disagree with the op.   Clemson won the game because they were the more complete team. Bama:s defense was better then Clemson:s, but not by too much. They were very vulnerable to the passing game of Clemson because of a great quarterback and the ability of Clemson to spread the ball around to multiple receivers and run just enough of keep Bama honest.

The Bama offensive game was very similar, if not a little better than it has been all season. I thought Sark did a fine job. Kiffin definitely would not have made a positive difference. Hurts is a freshman and doesn't yet have the ability to consistently lead the team. He definitely doesn't have the ability at this point to go to second and third options. They were limited in what they were able to do and when they lost Scarborough, it pretty much killed them.

Simply put, the better team won.

The team with the best two skill players won. Jackson and Williams are those players.

[ChicoHog]

And the fact that hurts was sec offensive poy and not someone like josh dobbs shows voters went off team record and not individual stats

Totally disagree.  I bet if you asked every coach in the SEC if they would take Hurts or Dobbs, the overwhelming answer would be Hurts.