On What basis do you think we should win 9 or 10 plus games each year?

[Piggfoot]

To do so requires that we win all OOC games plus five out of eight confrence games playing Ala, Aub, LSU. A&M, Ole Miss
Miss st, Fla And Missouri. I think year in and out we have a less than even money against Ala. Aub, LSU, and now A&M.
Throw in the East we have less than even money against all but USCe, Vandy, And Kentuck. This is what I see happening over the long haul. The reason I say this is in spite of delusional opinions of others, we have the smallest and most limited Recruiting base in the SEC excepting maybe Kentucky.  Tell me how I'm wrong.

[Dwillhog66]

To do so requires that we win all OOC games plus five out of eight confrence games playing Ala, Aub, LSU. A&M, Ole Miss
Miss st, Fla And Missouri. I think year in and out we have a less than even money against Ala. Aub, LSU, and now A&M.
Throw in the East we have less than even money against all but USCe, Vandy, And Kentuck. This is what I see happening over the long haul. The reason I say this is in spite of delusional opinions of others, we have the smallest and most limited Recruiting base in the SEC excepting maybe Kentucky.  Tell me how I'm wrong.

Others will have different opinions then yours which will make you wrong in their view, and you will both be right since your just stating your opinions.
I agree with you though for the most part. I think we have an advantage over Vandy in recruiting regardless of their location

[East Clintwood]

Because we want to, damnit!!

We're entitled!!

We're special!!

[hogsanity]

To do so requires that we win all OOC games plus five out of eight confrence games playing Ala, Aub, LSU. A&M, Ole Miss
Miss st, Fla And Missouri. I think year in and out we have a less than even money against Ala. Aub, LSU, and now A&M.
Throw in the East we have less than even money against all but USCe, Vandy, And Kentuck. This is what I see happening over the long haul. The reason I say this is in spite of delusional opinions of others, we have the smallest and most limited Recruiting base in the SEC excepting maybe Kentucky.  Tell me how I'm wrong.

Because we have to recruit players that just " want it ". If a kid just wants it enough he can over come anything. So what he is trying to tackle a 240lb rb that runs a 4.3 40 and the guy trying to make the tackle is 220 and runs a 4.8 40. If he just wants it enough he can do it. Football is just heart, nothing to do with talent at all.

[Sed76]

I don't and every realistic fan should know that it's pretty darn rare. Most would be happy winning 8 or 9 a year and being competitive with teams like Alabama, A&M, Auburn and LSU. When you are getting destroyed by those teams and field the worst defense in the history of the program it brings out all kinds of questions.

[hogsanity]

I don't and every realistic fan should know that it's pretty darn rare. Most would be happy winning 8 or 9 a year and being competitive with teams like Alabama, A&M, Auburn and LSU. When you are getting destroyed by those teams and field the worst defense in the history of the program it brings out all kinds of questions.

But the same people were whining last year when the hogs played A&M into OT and beat AUb and LSu ( In Baton Rouge ).

[Sportster365]

Nobody's asking for 10-11 win seasons a year. We weren't asking that under Petrino. As good as he was here fans were ok with 8 or 9 year and a real run for the conference every 3 to 4 years. We're just trying to avoid getting blown out at home and taking 53 pt losses. Be competitive, at the least leave us thinking that was close, we definitely got a chance at them next year.

[longpig]

Nobody's asking for 10-11 win seasons a year. We weren't asking that under Petrino. As good as he was here fans were ok with 8 or 9 year and a real run for the conference every 3 to 4 years. We're just trying to avoid getting blown out at home and taking 53 pt losses. Be competitive, at the least leave us thinking that was close, we definitely got a chance at them next year.

Yeh, I'll take a 7 win season with zero embarrassing losses over a 9 win season with 3 embarrassing losses.

[Sow Lancelot]

Well, it's obviously because we write a great big check each month. Dontcha know that should automatically translate into wins.

Big $$$=big wins, at least according to some here.

[Sed76]

But the same people were whining last year when the hogs played A&M into OT and beat AUb and LSu ( In Baton Rouge ).

Notice I said realistic. There will always be some that expect us to win at Alabama levels every year. Goes back to you can't please everyone.

[007 License To Squeal]

Those who choose to wallow in Mediocrity never attain greatness.

[lstewart]

The situation has gotten worse over the past 5 years or so, as A&M is going to be a loss most years, and Ole Miss and Miss State have continued to improve. LSU will probably be better with a new coach. It's going to be tough to do better than 4-4 in the conference most years, so if we can win all our non-conference games, I see about 8-4 as the best we can normally hope for with our usual level of talent. I think we will cycle between 7-5 and 8-4, with the occasional 6-6, and 9-3. That's assuming everything goes well for us. Can get worse a lot easier than it can get better.

[Sportster365]

Naw, c'mon man.  You know we want 10 wins min and we're punching a ticket to the 'ship every other year.
Errybody was all kinds of upset after the 14-13 Bama upset game in '14... just damn unacceptable. 

Because we're dumbass Razorback fans... if you don't believe it just look at at the posters telling other posters that's indeed what they are.

You got me, I'll come clean I never want the Razorbacks to lose another game ever and the first coach who does... absolutely unacceptable... not here not ever.

[Piggfoot]

Those who choose to wallow in Mediocrity never attain greatness.

Thats a good quote but not a solution. Reminds me of Smith saying "We've got to follow the system"
his answer to most questions.

[Wildhog]

Not once on this board have I ever seen anyone seriously say that we should win 9-10 games/year. 

[The Hogfather]

I want our floor to be 7 wins.  I think we should win at least 8 games every other year, at least 9 every 3rd year, 10 every 5th year, 11 every 10th year, 12 every 12th year, and the NC every 15 years.

  That's not too much to ask.

[007 License To Squeal]

Thats a good quote but not a solution. Reminds me of Smith saying "We've got to follow the system"
his answer to most questions.

It isn't a quote. It's a statement.

[gchamblee]

Those who choose to wallow in Mediocrity never attain greatness.

it's a shame stupidity isn't a choice

[gchamblee]

Not once on this board have I ever seen anyone seriously say that we should win 9-10 games/year.

so you'll be happy if we win 9 this year?

[hogsanity]

Not once on this board have I ever seen anyone seriously say that we should win 9-10 games/year. 

yet people are jumping out of windows over a team that could, since they have 2 reg season games and a bowl left, win 9 games.

[Sportster365]

yet people are jumping out of windows over a team that could, since they have 2 reg season games and a bowl left, win 9 games.

Hogville's finest:

[orvillesghost]

Arkansas will never average 10 wins or more each year over an extended period of time.

The only time we ever did this was 1977-1979 with a 30-5-1 mark. In fairness to the teams in the 60's, we probably would have had the NCAA allowed an 11th regular season game then.

As to the 2010-11 final two years under Petrino, we cannot know how he would have fared in 2012. I don't think he would have won nine or more games with that team but that's just an opinion.

I am not sure Arkansas will ever even win the SEC West again much less the league. We haven't won the league in our entire history in the SEC so not too promising one would have to say.

[jlhogfan]

To do so requires that we win all OOC games plus five out of eight confrence games playing Ala, Aub, LSU. A&M, Ole Miss
Miss st, Fla And Missouri. I think year in and out we have a less than even money against Ala. Aub, LSU, and now A&M.
Throw in the East we have less than even money against all but USCe, Vandy, And Kentuck. This is what I see happening over the long haul. The reason I say this is in spite of delusional opinions of others, we have the smallest and most limited Recruiting base in the SEC excepting maybe Kentucky.  Tell me how I'm wrong.

How do you think the expectation conversation goes with recruits?  Do you think they lie to the recruits or do you think they say "we are not expected to win more than 7-8 game on average"?  The expectation is the championship

[hobhog]

It will happen next year.

[Piggfoot]

How do you think the expectation conversation goes with recruits?  Do you think they lie to the recruits or do you think they say "we are not expected to win more than 7-8 game on average"?  The expectation is the championship

No you are wrong. The goal is to win the championship. The expectation is for the team to play to the best of their ability.
I hope you don't have children and tell them you expect them to make all A's. But maybe you have exceptionally brilliant children. If so I think you are very fortunate.

[jlhogfan]

No you are wrong. The goal is to win the championship. The expectation is for the team to play to the best of their ability.
I hope you don't have children and tell them you expect them to make all A's. But maybe you have exceptionally brilliant children. If so I think you are very fortunate.

You hope I don't have children?  Anyways, how do think the conversation goes with the recruits?

[EastexHawg]

We won 29 in three years as recently as 2009-2011.  But that was just luck so we shouldn't aspire to duplicate it.  Ever.

Don't aim high.   It's easier to achieve goals and avoid disappointment that way.

[Atlhogfan1]

Not once on this board have I ever seen anyone seriously say that we should win 9-10 games/year. 

You must have missed this thread.
http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=620058.0

[Atlhogfan1]

Arkansas will never average 10 wins or more each year over an extended period of time.

The only time we ever did this was 1977-1979 with a 30-5-1 mark. In fairness to the teams in the 60's, we probably would have had the NCAA allowed an 11th regular season game then.

As to the 2010-11 final two years under Petrino, we cannot know how he would have fared in 2012. I don't think he would have won nine or more games with that team but that's just an opinion.

I am not sure Arkansas will ever even win the SEC West again much less the league. We haven't won the league in our entire history in the SEC so not too promising one would have to say.

Every one of your posts explains how we just need to except mediocrity here at AR and how any real success has just been a fluke...OK..we got it..you are wrong..but we got it. Some of us are tired of the excuses and want to do what it takes to build a winner here at AR. and it can be done with the right personnel... obviously even you know CBB ain't the guy, hence you defeatest, poor Arkansas, woos me mindset...

[Hog Solo]

We won 29 in three years as recently as 2009-2011.  But that was just luck so we shouldn't aspire to duplicate it.  Ever.

Don't aim high.   It's easier to achieve goals and avoid disappointment that way.

These people are just conformists,  and apparently not great with memory.

[orvillesghost]

My question is how are you going to get the right personnel? We have never achieved a recruiting class higher than 17th and that being with several SEC schools ahead of us.

Winning seven to eight games in the division we play in is not mediocre. It would translate to nine or 10 wins in most conferences.

[Hog Solo]

My question is how are you going to get the right personnel? We have never achieved a recruiting class higher than 17th and that being with several SEC schools ahead of us.

Winning seven to eight games in the division we play in is not mediocre. It would translate to nine or 10 wins in most conferences.

Sec is way down this year.  Every freaking team we played was beatable outside bama.   Our defense was and is a huge fail, our offensive line while we knew we would be raw before the season should've been better under year 4 of Bielema.  At some point we are who we are on recruiting, Petrino succeeded here under similar recruiting.   At some point fingers have to be pointed to coaching.

[orvillesghost]

I will agree it is troubling that we are in year four and having some of these issues. Not that far apart on that particular point.

[MrThunderhog]

we buy 4 wins a year

Mississippi has 2 schools, we get to play them both

mizzou is a yearly game

if we cant find a couple more wins somewhere then no we cant get to 9 or 10

[HiggiePiggy]

Sec is way down this year.  Every freaking team we played was beatable outside bama.   Our defense was and is a huge fail, our offensive line while we knew we would be raw before the season should've been better under year 4 of Bielema.  At some point we are who we are on recruiting, Petrino succeeded here under similar recruiting.   At some point fingers have to be pointed to coaching.

Actually the east is down. West is considered the top division in all of football. East on the other hand is considered the worst of all P5 divisions. If we were in the east we could possibly be going to the sec championship game this year.  That is how bad the east is considering we will either finish 5th or 6th in the west division.

[Hog Solo]

Actually the east is down. West is considered the top division in all of football. East on the other hand is considered the worst of all P5 divisions. If we were in the east we could possibly be going to the sec championship game this year.  That is how bad the east is considering we will either finish 5th or 6th in the west division.

I strongly disagree the sec west is the top division top to bottom.  Not this year.  Sorry no.

[rude1]

I just wonder when did aTm suddenly get added to this unbeatable juggernaut? Before this season didn't we actually have them beaten the last two years in a row and just didn't finish? But that's the way it's going around here now days, anytime we lose, build that team up to superhuman proportions, doesn't matter if at the end of the season that teams body of work shows they are nothing special.

[Atlhogfan1]

I strongly disagree the sec west is the top division top to bottom.  Not this year.  Sorry no.

Still think that LSU defense isn't very good? Bama offense was just bad, right?

[Atlhogfan1]

I strongly disagree the sec west is the top division top to bottom.  Not this year.  Sorry no.

Who is?  Big 10 east? 

[Atlhogfan1]

I just wonder when did aTm suddenly get added to this unbeatable juggernaut? Before this season didn't we actually have them beaten the last two years in a row and just didn't finish? But that's the way it's going around here now days, anytime we lose, build that team up to superhuman proportions, doesn't matter if at the end of the season that teams body of work shows they are nothing special.

Who said they are?

They were a better team when we played them than now. But nobody is claiming unbeatable juggernaut. You are out there on your exaggerating.

[Locutus_of_Boar]

Arkansas will never average 10 wins or more each year over an extended period of time.

Ten might be a bit of a stretch but no too much.  Nine is more likely.  Remember that's an average of 9 wins per year which means the team will win 8, 9, or 10 wins about 5 years out of every decade, and 7 or 11 wins 3 out of every decade with the remaining two years being the once a decade 6- win and 12+ win years.

That means averaging 3.5 non-conf wins per year (split the games against the Big 5), 0.5 bowl wins per year (win every other bowl) and 5 conference wins per year.  Despite poor play Arkansas is still likely to finish with 8 or 9 wins this year and 4-4 in conference in what was clearly expected to be a somewhat down year.

If CBB can move the recruiting rankings from about 30th to about 20th and if he can find a DC we can rely on averaging 9 wins is entirely realistic.

Nothing too far fetched about that level of performance assuming assuming an average recruiting class in the 15-25 ranking range. 

[Hog Solo]

Still think that LSU defense isn't very good? Bama offense was just bad, right?

Bama offense didn't play well first half, hogs offense got shut down by a superior defense.  You hate me don't you?  I'll admit when I'm wrong.

[Atlhogfan1]

Bama offense didn't play well first half, hogs offense got shut down by a superior defense.  You hate me don't you?  I'll admit when I'm wrong.

No I don't. Just wish you and a few others would stop the bulls   .  We aren't happy with how this is going. Why make it worse? 

[Hog Solo]

No I don't. Just wish you and a few others would stop the bulls   .  We aren't happy with how this is going. Why make it worse?

Things aren't going great. Sure we may win a game more than last season, but our defense is absolute junk.  Our oline not setting the world on fire either.  If we win out we will still have a 4-4 record.  1 more loss in the sec than last year.   Prove to me where we are getting better.

[hogfan870]

1. Because it is what the good teams do.

2. Because our coach said he came here to win and SEC Champioship.

Both of those things being said, I don't expect it every year, but I do expect it some years. Right now we are nowhere close, we are losing a lot after this year and we have not been recruiting at a level that indicates that the talent coming up is any better then what we have.

[gchamblee]

We won 29 in three years as recently as 2009-2011.  But that was just luck so we shouldn't aspire to duplicate it.  Ever.

Don't aim high.   It's easier to achieve goals and avoid disappointment that way.

there were plenty of bad losses and bad wins in those 29, just in case you forgot and decided wins and losses are all that matters, the standard you refuse to let CBB benefit from.

[gchamblee]

I just wonder when did aTm suddenly get added to this unbeatable juggernaut? Before this season didn't we actually have them beaten the last two years in a row and just didn't finish? But that's the way it's going around here now days, anytime we lose, build that team up to superhuman proportions, doesn't matter if at the end of the season that teams body of work shows they are nothing special.

ok i think i found the problem. you think last years results mean something this year. once you get that fixed you might be less frustrated.

[Hog Solo]

there were plenty of bad losses and bad wins in those 29, just in case you forgot and decided wins and losses are all that matters, the standard you refuse to let CBB benefit from.

Bielema is still 24-24 last time I checked.   There's almost been too many bad losses to even remember at this point.

[jkstock04]

I find the title of the OP and the actual content of the post to be contradicting and confusing but ill give it a shot.

To the title of the thread...on what basis 9 or more games/year? Are we talking regular season or bowl game included? Assuming we are talking regular season....I don't think seeing it once every 4 years is too much to ask.

The content of the post seems to center on how more so. The current spin on this is to look at what Bielema accomplished at Wisconsin. Keep in mind he builds teams "the right way." Yes I'm being sarcastic and I'm skeptical his method will ever yield more than 8 wins (I've said this from day 1) but I'm willing to watch it play out because honestly I have no other choice lol.

When people talk about "the right way" he builds teams and how we can expect those 10 win seasons they are talking about building the O and D lines "from the inside out." Essentially almost everyone redshirts and he mostly only plays upper classmen...especially on the line. Line of thinking is that these 2/3* guys have been in the program so long that by the time they are finally plugged in they are playing more like 4/5* players.

Also add in to the equation that these are guys of high morals and excellent in the classroom and supposedly the recipe is for 10 win seasons on the regular. This is what we have been sold on. I'm skeptical but like I said we will see.

Original company line was that "this was always going to be a 5 year rebuild" because the past coach was so awful at running the program...recruiting in particular. So with all that said year 6 is when we should start to see a return in this investment, and by then we will be so deep it'll be an every year deal. We'll see.

[Atlhogfan1]

I find the title of the OP and the actual content of the post to be contradicting and confusing but ill give it a shot.

To the title of the thread...on what basis 9 or more games/year? Are we talking regular season or bowl game included? Assuming we are talking regular season....I don't think seeing it once every 4 years is too much to ask.

The content of the post seems to center on how more so. The current spin on this is to look at what Bielema accomplished at Wisconsin. Keep in mind he builds teams "the right way." Yes I'm being sarcastic and I'm skeptical his method will ever yield more than 8 wins (I've said this from day 1) but I'm willing to watch it play out because honestly I have no other choice lol.

When people talk about "the right way" he builds teams and how we can expect those 10 win seasons they are talking about building the O and D lines "from the inside out." Essentially almost everyone redshirts and he mostly only plays upper classmen...especially on the line. Line of thinking is that these 2/3* guys have been in the program so long that by the time they are finally plugged in they are playing more like 4/5* players.

Also add in to the equation that these are guys of high morals and excellent in the classroom and supposedly the recipe is for 10 win seasons on the regular. This is what we have been sold on. I'm skeptical but like I said we will see.

Original company line was that "this was always going to be a 5 year rebuild" because the past coach was so awful at running the program...recruiting in particular. So with all that said year 6 is when we should start to see a return in this investment, and by then we will be so deep it'll be an every year deal. We'll see.

Something you can take from what happened at Wisconsin or other programs built over several seasons like Oregon or Iowa (built by Fry and rebuilt by Ferentz) or Mizzou under Pinkel is the consistency.  Alvarez's Wisconsin is probably the best example.  He got the program to where they were winning 7-9 games most seasons.  This put them in a position to when things were "right" for them in terms of players or schedule they could step up to the next level.  Bielema continued it there.  Pinkel positioned Mizzou to where when the SECE fell apart plus some key injuries to opponents, they took advantage.

Biggus made a post recently about how the SEC is about to go through some changes over the near future and positioning ourselves to take advantage. 

In the SECW, the program who mirrors this somewhat has been AU.  The exception with AU is when they go from their 7-8 win teams to a great season they are able to go big due to their recruiting base.

So the plan to get the lines built and get consistency makes sense.

Now to the "negative" side:

This is Bielema's first build.  And he has chosen one at a program in a tougher situation than any of those others I listed.  Bielema may not see the rewards for his work here.  He may only get to the point of setting a decent foundation and a very good one off the field.  So the sarcasm and derision about the doing it the right way is misguided.  At the least from this, we want things done the right way so whomever follows Bielema is doing so from a workable starting point.  One where he doesn't have to worry about getting a huge number of players eligible or off police reports and with good established recruiting relationships between our program and high schools.  Where he has more than 1 or 2 qbs with little to no experience, olinemen, dlinemen, wr's etc.  Basically a team which can compete and can build from that starting point.  Not the depths of having to struggle to get up to 7-8 wins.  If Bielema leaves behind an 8 win a season program on solid footing on and off the field, it won't have been a failure. 

Our situation is unlike any of those others or really any other program in college football.  We have rehashed the differences so before one of the [CENSORED] steps in and says "they aren't playing in the SECW" to the earlier examples - no darn.  It is what it is for us. 

I'll add, if he sees 8 wins a season is the ceiling I think he leaves.  Too young, too much career left to stay at Arkansas.