Garth and others say Ark needs to go to the Big 12

[Fatty McGee]

Not to digress from the topic, but everyone thought that Petrino had us headed in the right direction and without a doubt his ability to put together a good offensive game plan cannot be denied. But his recruiting had us headed in a different direction that he wasn't here long enough to take credit for when the crows came home to roost.

Then, with a change in HC's and the offensive philosophy and the personnel required to execute that scheme on both sides of the ball, we have Bielema, trying to put all of the jigsaw pieces together in not just one single year, but year after year while recruiting against the very best in the country and not just our conference. Something tells me that with a couple of double digit win seasons in the Big 12 our recruiting would improve over who we have to compete against in the SEC. But that's just an opinion and a projection, not necessarily to be considered fact.

I think we would have far more success in terms of overall wins and losses in the Big 12 than we have in the SEC and we might be able to build a reputation as a team that is a favorite every year for winning our division, being more highly ranked, having a higher recruiting ranking and drawing more elite players, going to a CCG and possibly being projected to go to the play offs. But if that happened we couldn't take pride in being a part of the SEC West and coming in anywhere from 3rd to 5th in the West almost every year.

Just saying, if we could make as much or more money by making a move to the Big 12 as opposed to laboring every year in the SEC West where the odds are that we aren't going to the SECCG most years, I would be good with that.

Agreed.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Not to digress from the topic, but everyone thought that Petrino had us headed in the right direction and without a doubt his ability to put together a good offensive game plan cannot be denied. But his recruiting had us headed in a different direction that he wasn't here long enough to take credit for when the crows came home to roost.

Then, with a change in HC's and the offensive philosophy and the personnel required to execute that scheme on both sides of the ball, we have Bielema, trying to put all of the jigsaw pieces together in not just one single year, but year after year while recruiting against the very best in the country and not just our conference. Something tells me that with a couple of double digit win seasons in the Big 12 our recruiting would improve over who we have to compete against in the SEC. But that's just an opinion and a projection, not necessarily to be considered fact.

I think we would have far more success in terms of overall wins and losses in the Big 12 than we have in the SEC and we might be able to build a reputation as a team that is a favorite every year for winning our division, being more highly ranked, having a higher recruiting ranking and drawing more elite players, going to a CCG and possibly being projected to go to the play offs. But if that happened we couldn't take pride in being a part of the SEC West and coming in anywhere from 3rd to 5th in the West almost every year.

Just saying, if we could make as much or more money by making a move to the Big 12 as opposed to laboring every year in the SEC West where the odds are that we aren't going to the SECCG most years, I would be good with that.

It's nice to see one of the more respected posters on this board recognize that money isn't the only thing important to a healthy fan base.  Right now I can't see a move to the B12 because of stability issues, money shouldn't be the only determining factor.  To tell you the truth where we are right now scares me.  Winning and fan participation has become secondary to conference money.  At what point do we realize we are being paid very well to lose to the conference elite?  Oh yes, we might win one of those game from time to time but will it ever be the ONE.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's nice to see one of the more respected posters on this board recognize that money isn't the only thing important to a healthy fan base.  Right now I can't see a move to the B12 because of stability issues, money shouldn't be the only determining factor.  To tell you the truth where we are right now scares me.  Winning and fan participation has become secondary to conference money.  At what point do we realize we are being paid very well to lose to the conference elite?  Oh yes, we might win one of those game from time to time but will it ever be the ONE.

As I said though, I wouldn't want to see us move if we had to take a pay cut. The money is just as important because it also benefits other sports and enables us to remain competitive in terms of quality facilities which helps draw recruits.

[RME]

Not to digress from the topic, but everyone thought that Petrino had us headed in the right direction and without a doubt his ability to put together a good offensive game plan cannot be denied. But his recruiting had us headed in a different direction that he wasn't here long enough to take credit for when the crows came home to roost.

Then, with a change in HC's and the offensive philosophy and the personnel required to execute that scheme on both sides of the ball, we have Bielema, trying to put all of the jigsaw pieces together in not just one single year, but year after year while recruiting against the very best in the country and not just our conference. Something tells me that with a couple of double digit win seasons in the Big 12 our recruiting would improve over who we have to compete against in the SEC. But that's just an opinion and a projection, not necessarily to be considered fact.

I think we would have far more success in terms of overall wins and losses in the Big 12 than we have in the SEC and we might be able to build a reputation as a team that is a favorite every year for winning our division, being more highly ranked, having a higher recruiting ranking and drawing more elite players, going to a CCG and possibly being projected to go to the play offs. But if that happened we couldn't take pride in being a part of the SEC West and coming in anywhere from 3rd to 5th in the West almost every year.

Just saying, if we could make as much or more money by making a move to the Big 12 as opposed to laboring every year in the SEC West where the odds are that we aren't going to the SECCG most years, I would be good with that.

Exactly what I was trying to say, but you did it far more eloquently than I. Thank you.

100% agree with your last sentence.

[OldCoot]

This is his worst idea since Chris Gaines

John L.

the B12 is done, dead and we helped kill it when we left the SWC.  People in Texass are dreaming of yesteryear.  We left, get over it.

Jeff Long would be an absolute idiot to even think twice about it. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

As I said though, I wouldn't want to see us move if we had to take a pay cut. The money is just as important because it also benefits other sports and enables us to remain competitive in terms of quality facilities which helps draw recruits.

I would give up a few mil in direct revenue because I think/believe that winning championships brings in residual income that could more than make up for it.  Many team aren't where they are because of the conference money they are there because they are winning programs and have been for a long time.  On the other hand many programs are where they are because they have never been winning programs.  Money will never MAKE you a winning program. 

You yourself could probably list a few things you think are more important(besides cheating that is).  Besides that I can't see that the money has improved the performance of any of our other programs. 

Bud Walton was built on SWC achievements leaving Barnhill to gymnastics.  T&F was the nations best already.  Baseball wasn't bad and neither the SWC or Big8 were weak in baseball. 

I just don't see were money has improved anything but the facilities and who knows we might could have done that anyway. 

Nope money is secondary.  Stability is the main thing and close on its heals is winning.

[oldgoat]

John L.

the B12 is done, dead and we helped kill it when we left the SWC.  People in Texass are dreaming of yesteryear.  We left, get over it.

Jeff Long would be an absolute idiot to even think twice about it.

Agreed, except I think Jeff Long should consider all options.  I would oppose ever leaving the SEC until we win the title in football, which we can do.

[Inhogswetrust]

You sound like a fun guy.

My wife and family and friends agree that I am. 

[Inhogswetrust]

It would be awesome in the sense that Arkansas actually has a better chance at winning a conference title and putting themselves in position to be ranked high more consistently. Lord knows we have been mediocre in the SEC. 86-110 conference record since joining in 1992 and only have more bowl wins as an SEC school then Kentucky and Vanderbilt since 1992, not counting the 2012 expansion teams. We really are just in the SEC for the money and to ride the coattails of other teams success in the SEC. We don't contribute that much to the SEC name.

That has to be one of the dumbest posts ever in the history of posting on message boards. If you think we got in the SEC for the money way back when we did you would be wrong. There wasn't the huge mega media deals back then like today. THAT happened after we joined so yes we did help the SEC brand name. Do you honestly believe the SEC would have taken us IF we did NOT help their brand name. Just because we wanted in doesn't mean they had to accept us yet they did so I'll trust THEIR judgment we helped them instead of yours.

[Fatty McGee]

That has to be one of the dumbest posts ever in the history of posting on message boards. If you think we got in the SEC for the money way back when we did you would be wrong. There wasn't the huge mega media deals back then like today. THAT happened after we joined so yes we did help the SEC brand name. Do you honestly believe the SEC would have taken us IF we did NOT help their brand name. Just because we wanted in doesn't mean they had to accept us yet they did so I'll trust THEIR judgment we helped them instead of yours.

If you think we didn't get in for the money then you're kidding yourself.

[Justifiable Hogicide]

It was a combination of the money, the prestige, the stability, the escalation of Arkansas fan interest and the foresight of Coach Broyles assessing the dim future of the SWC and his ability to negotiate an invite from the best conference in college football.

[Cinco de Hogo]

It was a combination of the money, the prestige, the stability, the escalation of Arkansas fan interest and the foresight of Coach Broyles assessing the dim future of the SWC and his ability to negotiate an invite from the best conference in college football.

I agree with everything except the escalation of fan interest.  The first ten years in the SEC we were pretty stagnant.  It wasn't until Matt Jones arrived on the scene that fan interest reach the point that they thought a bigger stadium was  needed.  We increased by 20,000 and filled it up at least as much as we did before.  I had season tickets from 1993-2001 and I could walk up and get a better seat below ticket price almost any game.  Moving to the SEC didn't automatically increase ticket demand.

[hoglady]

Not for a move to the Big 12 at all.
But I do really miss the old SWC - the Arkansas football program was held in high regard nationally. I miss that. Most years we were a real player for the conference title. (In those days the SWC was good.) I don't think anyone thought we'd be 20+ years in and still no football conference title - I think everyone on the hill underestimated what the move would do to our recruiting. We didn't have a plan to replace those lost Texas connections. It's been a struggle to say the least.
Financially it's been great - prestige wise for the football program not so much.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If you think we didn't get in for the money then you're kidding yourself.

I think we initially chose to make the move because Frank recognized the stability that the conference would provide and of course, the money was a part of that equation. Additionally, there was a lot of infighting in the old SWC and attendance among member schools was down. According to JFB, the SWC was in trouble and when efforts to try to solve some of those problems failed, Broyle obtained permission to look for another conference home for the Hogs.

Here's a great article that describes what occurred and why.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2003/12/20031208/Special-Report/Arkansas-Pleased-With-Decade-Old-Move-To-SEC.aspx

[SamBuckhart]

Texass in the SEC? NO WAY! I never wanted the stinking Ags. No big 12, never.

[Fatty McGee]

I think we initially chose to make the move because Frank recognized the stability that the conference would provide and of course, the money was a part of that equation. Additionally, there was a lot of infighting in the old SWC and attendance among member schools was down. According to JFB, the SWC was in trouble and when efforts to try to solve some of those problems failed, Broyle obtained permission to look for another conference home for the Hogs.

Here's a great article that describes what occurred and why.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2003/12/20031208/Special-Report/Arkansas-Pleased-With-Decade-Old-Move-To-SEC.aspx

Fred Jacoby made a good point.  Good read.

[Hawghiggs]

 I liked Franks idea about building a new conference.  We should get together with Oklahoma and try to do that now.

[moses_007]

I liked Franks idea about building a new conference.  We should get together with Oklahoma and try to do that now.

A "new" Southwest Conference?

[Ben]

That has to be one of the dumbest posts ever in the history of posting on message boards. If you think we got in the SEC for the money way back when we did you would be wrong. There wasn't the huge mega media deals back then like today. THAT happened after we joined so yes we did help the SEC brand name. Do you honestly believe the SEC would have taken us IF we did NOT help their brand name. Just because we wanted in doesn't mean they had to accept us yet they did so I'll trust THEIR judgment we helped them instead of yours.

you are so delusional.... What has arkansas done to help the SEC brand with a 6-8 bowl record, a 3-4 average conference record, and the second biggest drop in AP poll history? Il wait....

[870hogfan]

you are so delusional.... What has arkansas done to help the SEC brand with a 6-8 bowl record, a 3-4 average conference record, and the second biggest drop in AP poll history? Il wait....

What has Ole Miss or Miss St done to help the SEC?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Fred Jacoby made a good point.  Good read.

Jacoby did make a good point about the benefits to Arkansas had they stayed and been a part of the merger that they were trying to put together, but what we don't know (and never will now) is how all of that would have worked out in the long run. Would it have worked out better (financially and stability wise) for Arkansas than it has for us in the SEC? It's hard to imagine that in regard to those two qualifications, that it could have turned out any better for the Hogs. Now, might Arkansas have won more football games in a conference with that proposed membership? Maybe, but we will never know.

[Hawghiggs]

A "new" Southwest Conference?

It would have the branding and national reputation from day one. And if we built it right. It would have a network from day one also.

[Shrevepork]

Then Garth needs to sing show tunes. Same thing.

[riccoar]

We shoud move to the Big12.  You know how many gimme wins the move would mean?  SMH. 

What good is to beat up on cream puffs for 10 wins when at the end of the year?  Your still going to face someone from the SEC in the Playoffs?

We are better off scrapping for wins, rather than playing cheap competition.  It always shows come December and January.

[Hawghiggs]

We shoud move to the Big12.  You know how many gimme wins the move would mean?  SMH. 

What good is to beat up on cream puffs for 10 wins when at the end of the year?  Your still going to face someone from the SEC in the Playoffs?

We are better off scrapping for wins, rather than playing cheap competition.  It always shows come December and January.

Yes it does show. We are usually in lower tier bowl game.

[Fatty McGee]

We shoud move to the Big12.  You know how many gimme wins the move would mean?  SMH. 

What good is to beat up on cream puffs for 10 wins when at the end of the year?  Your still going to face someone from the SEC in the Playoffs?

We are better off scrapping for wins, rather than playing cheap competition.  It always shows come December and January.

No, it doesn't always show.  You have a better chance of winning three difficult games than 6-8.  Especially if you're consistently less talented.

[Inhogswetrust]

If you think we didn't get in for the money then you're kidding yourself.

If you think it was ONLY about money you're kidding yourself. Read the post immediately after yours from Justifiable.

[Inhogswetrust]

Fred Jacoby made a good point.  Good read.

Frank was smarter than that. Bringing up the potential rival thing was Jacoby's way of pleading with him not to leave. There was still the other issues. The rival thing was settled with old misses, lsu, etc.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If you think it was ONLY about money you're kidding yourself. Read the post immediately after yours from Justifiable.

Yeah, there were several reasons, but financial gain and stability were a couple of pretty big reasons.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2003/12/20031208/Special-Report/Arkansas-Pleased-With-Decade-Old-Move-To-SEC.aspx

[Inhogswetrust]

you are so delusional.... What has arkansas done to help the SEC brand with a 6-8 bowl record, a 3-4 average conference record, and the second biggest drop in AP poll history? Il wait....

YOU are delusional thinking that records is the only thing that matters. You have not brought forth anything to dispel my bringing up the point about they took us so they though we helped them was one thing.

[riccoar]

No, it doesn't always show.  You have a better chance of winning three difficult games than 6-8.  Especially if you're consistently less talented.

Then why not move to the Sun Belt and go undefeated every year?

[Fatty McGee]

Then why not move to the Sun Belt and go undefeated every year?

You still need to be in a Power 5 for that better playoff chance.  And more importantly, you reduce your marketing opportunities, which is what this is all about.

[Hogs33]

you are so delusional.... What has arkansas done to help the SEC brand with a 6-8 bowl record, a 3-4 average conference record, and the second biggest drop in AP poll history? Il wait....

I am guessing you only watch football?

[hoglady]

http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1968#.VznPgI-cHIU

If any of you are interested just gander through these final AP rankings from 1968 thru our move to the SEC. This is what many of us miss. Some of you are too young to remember when were actually a good team year in and year out.

[Torqued pork]

http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1968#.VznPgI-cHIU

If any of you are interested just gander through these final AP rankings from 1968 thru our move to the SEC. This is what many of us miss. Some of you are too young to remember when were actually a good team year in and year out.

http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1968#.VznPgI-cHIU

If any of you are interested just gander through these final AP rankings from 1968 thru our move to the SEC. This is what many of us miss. Some of you are too young to remember when were actually a good team year in and year out.

With all due respect to you and our teams of that era, having 3 or 4 cupcakes in the conference schedule helped quite a bit.

I'm not nearly as enamored with the SEC as some, but I don't miss those trps to Rice with 18,000 rattling around the stadium, either.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Party on, Garth.

Party on, Wayne.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

With all due respect to you and our teams of that era, having 3 or 4 cupcakes in the conference schedule helped quite a bit.

I'm not nearly as enamored with the SEC as some, but I don't miss those trps to Rice with 18,000 rattling around the stadium, either.

Not only that, but Arkansas riches were founded upon beating perennial doormats Rice, TCU, SMU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston and A&M (most years) back then. Yeah, each of them had some bright spots, but overall you're talking about a weak ass conference.

Other than the Texas match up, add a couple of cupcakes to the schedule and anything less than 7 wins in 10 regular season games was downright bad football.

[Hugo Bezdek]

I think people on here are missing the 60s, 70s, and 80s more than they are the SWC. Broyles was brilliant IMO for moving us to the SEC but his coaching hires in the 90s have been our challenge to overcome. Petri no proved we can compete at a high level in the SEC and Bielema is moving us in the right direction. Going backward in conference affiliation is just going backward.

[westside_player]

http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1968#.VznPgI-cHIU

If any of you are interested just gander through these final AP rankings from 1968 thru our move to the SEC. This is what many of us miss. Some of you are too young to remember when were actually a good team year in and year out.

Most of today's followers don't care about what happened before they started following.

[hoglady]

With all due respect to you and our teams of that era, having 3 or 4 cupcakes in the conference schedule helped quite a bit.

I'm not nearly as enamored with the SEC as some, but I don't miss those trps to Rice with 18,000 rattling around the stadium, either.

The SEC of old was not the same as the SEC of today.
All conferences had their share of cupcakes back then.
Most years Arkansas was as good as most of what the SEC had to offer.
The SEC I'm sure expected us to bring more than we have to the conference - we lost our recruiting base and we haven't kept up with the rest of the SEC West. 

[westside_player]

I think people on here are missing the 60s, 70s, and 80s more than they are the SWC. Broyles was brilliant IMO for moving us to the SEC but his coaching hires in the 90s have been our challenge to overcome. Petri no proved we can compete at a high level in the SEC and Bielema is moving us in the right direction. Going backward in conference affiliation is just going backward.

We can overcome his coaching hires with another coaching hire. The only questionable coaching hire he made ,football basketball baseball was Jack Crowe but even Crow had a long career of success after he was fired. Crow probably would have eventually been good had he been given time.  The 90's coaching hires have nothing to do with whats going on today and it doesn't have anything to do with what went on 10 years ago.

[hoglady]

With all due respect to you and our teams of that era, having 3 or 4 cupcakes in the conference schedule helped quite a bit.

I'm not nearly as enamored with the SEC as some, but I don't miss those trps to Rice with 18,000 rattling around the stadium, either.

Let's just say we've had way too many years where we were the Rice of the SEC.
We have sporadically fielded good, competitive teams - they've just been too few and far between.

[LZH]

No, it doesn't always show.  You have a better chance of winning three difficult games than 6-8.  Especially if you're consistently less talented.

That is correct, try moving to the Big 12 and see how our recruiting does then. Talk about being less talented, we would be a lot less talented than we are now. "Come to Arkansas so you can play in the Big 12! You can brag about playing in half-empty stadiums most of the year, and the basketball is certainly fun to watch!"

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Let's just say we've had way too many years where we were the Rice of the SEC.
We have sporadically fielded good, competitive teams - they've just been too few and far between.

Good, competitive teams have finished 5th and 6th in the SEC West lately due to indisputable depth. That does not make them Rice.

[ChitownHawg]

That is correct, try moving to the Big 12 and see how our recruiting does then. Talk about being less talented, we would be a lot less talented than we are now. "Come to Arkansas so you can play in the Big 12! You can brag about playing in half-empty stadiums most of the year, and the basketball is certainly fun to watch!"

Not to mention the difficulty of retaining a top coach. They are like the players and want to compete against the best. Texas and all of its money has had a hard time grabbing a top coach. They had to get an up and comer hoping he could continue winning.

We would recruit to B12 level and win many games during the season. Then get embarrassed big time in a bowl each year. Sounds very similar to our SWC days. 

[Hugo Bezdek]

We can overcome his coaching hires with another coaching hire. The only questionable coaching hire he made ,football basketball baseball was Jack Crowe but even Crow had a long career of success after he was fired. Crow probably would have eventually been good had he been given time.  The 90's coaching hires have nothing to do with whats going on today and it doesn't have anything to do with what went on 10 years ago.

Jack Crowe was never SEC material. He wasn't even SWC material. His success was in the FCS. Neither was Houston Nutt, at Arkansas or Ole Miss. Danny Ford probably was when he was in his prime, but we did not get his best. That's 15 years of subpar coaching and we still won 3 division titles.

[Hawghiggs]

That is correct, try moving to the Big 12 and see how our recruiting does then. Talk about being less talented, we would be a lot less talented than we are now. "Come to Arkansas so you can play in the Big 12! You can brag about playing in half-empty stadiums most of the year, and the basketball is certainly fun to watch!"

I'm not advocating a move to the Big 12. But I do think that our recruiting would be about the same.

[hoglady]

Not to mention the difficulty of retaining a top coach. They are like the players and want to compete against the best. Texas and all of its money has had a hard time grabbing a top coach. They had to get an up and comer hoping he could continue winning.

We would recruit to B12 level and win many games during the season. Then get embarrassed big time in a bowl each year. Sounds very similar to our SWC days. 

Hatfield's MO from the SWC days for sure.
I haven't looked it up but I believe Holtz had a pretty good bowl record - or least I don't remember getting humiliated like we did with Hatfield.

[Hawghiggs]

Not to mention the difficulty of retaining a top coach. They are like the players and want to compete against the best. Texas and all of its money has had a hard time grabbing a top coach. They had to get an up and comer hoping he could continue winning.

We would recruit to B12 level and win many games during the season. Then get embarrassed big time in a bowl each year. Sounds very similar to our SWC days. 

1st, Coaches want big paychecks and winning seasons.  2nd, Charlie Strong was a hot name in coaching when he took the Texas job. The Big 12 hasn't had a problem with retaining quality coaches.

[ChitownHawg]

I'm not advocating a move to the Big 12. But I do think that our recruiting would be about the same.

I'm not sure about this. I believe I heard CBB state that being an SEC team opens doors to recruits homes. If you are recruiting a wooly mammoth in Michigan which is going to open the door? My guess is SEC otherwise stay close to home in the B10. Same in California. Just my thoughts.