Kevin and Richard-Future of ball recruiting

[Hoggle]

There are problems, no doubt ... but grassroots basketball, for example, helps so many kids get exposure and opportunities for DII, low-major D1, mid-major D1, and high-major scholarships. The jostling and cheating typically only plays into the Top 15-20 kids in the country -- the 5-stars -- so in the big picture there is a lot more good than bad. Still, it is a problem and needs addressing.

You certainly have better insight than I do on this but I find it very hard to believe that the cheating only involves the very top (5 star) players.  The basis for paying the top players is that competing schools are after them and, forgetting the rules for a second, it makes economic sense to pay.  Well, recruiting battles don't end after the top 15-20 players. Competing schools are after players 20-100 as well, and fighting HARD to get them. The money might not be as high, but the similar economic and competitive pressures still apply. Maybe they don't pay 100k, but if 15k will do the trick for the #40 or #60 player and 5 other equivalent schools are fighting for them (to fill seats, save jobs and bring prestige to that school) why wouldn't they (if this is the way the game is played)

I can't see why these same forces don't apply throughout college football as well (the model sure seems to fit the reality of certain schools always getting who they want)

Cleaning this up would be the best thing that could happen for a school like Arkansas that doesn't have the same degree of institutional structures in place to facilitate this cheating, IMO.

[rzrbackramsfan]

The Oklahoma state players weren't five stars.

[ShadowHawg]

Could be, although I still think Bentonville is one of the last places I would have expected Malik Monk to land.

Boosters can get colleges in trouble without having any official capacity for the school.

Booster infractions aren't necessarily tied to a staff or even a program as seen in the potential punishments by the  NCAA. The player and involved booster can both suffer punishment while the institution itself can be cleared of any wrong doing. The player would be declared ineligible and the booster banned in such a case.

Booster involved infractions still require some sort of direct tie in to a school official or coaching staff member or be the result of blatant negligence to cause a school an infraction. Boosters are pretty well monitored these days. Most schools are quick to cut ties in order to limit negative exposure.

Even so, a rogue booster involved with the Monks is not going to be an issue the fbi involves itself with.

[jvanhorn]

Your 100% correct.  However, I do find it comforting to know that Nolan spoke out against this, and refused to give in to the AAU handlers.  He was even criticized for it.  I am making an assumption that Mike does not fall far from his mentor's tree.  I would suspect that he does things very similar to Nolan. 

I think you can also assume, no mater much how much you might not  like some of his actions with the football program, that Long is not the kind of AD that would put up with or sanction this kind of thing.  I have also heard the same thing about the AD at Oklahoma, but I guess time will tell.

[HogFoo]

But you 100% believe Malik to Bentonville and Marcus and his homeboy Nick"look at me, I'm on the radio" Mason was all the up and up? Favors were definitely done, things were made to happen for the Monk family in NWA. The question is just how much was done and if all was "legal" in the NCAA book.

it still bothers me hearing Nick Toolman mason  on the radio.  Especially after what happened.  Both him and Marcus knew Malik was going elsewhere for a long time(my nephew was friends with Malik & knew a year ahead of time).  But they kept asking for donations to put on the tournament's which people would gladly donate cuz they thought they were helping Arkansas to get a top recruit.  Nick and Marcus both would say.... hey, maybe Malik will choose arkansas... Help us out on these tournaments and maybe Malik will be a Hog.  I mean they knew all along he wasn't gonna be a Hog!  But they kept asking for donations for these tournaments until Calipari came in the Sunday after his visit to the Hill. And he basically made Marcus quit lying about it.  Seems like the following Monday or Tuesday is when Malik announced he was going to UK.  Which Marcus and Nick were gonna carry the whole charade all the way to late signing dat while having their hands out and also while preventing Malik from catching any flack for choosing UK.  But, lo and behold , Calipari made them stop and openly commit to UK.  For that alone I am thankful to him.  Cuz we saw the true colors of a traiter!   The only thing that bothers me still is having to hear Nick on the rado!! Who would even think of hiring this turd after him and the Monks colluded against us Hog fans?!?!  Anyways..  I hope UK goes down in a ball of flame!

[nwahogfan1]

Still digesting this and new developments continue to surface. I'll chime in with more of my thoughts later, but my initial thinking is that it helps Arkansas because the coaches have been doing things the right way all along.

Should be several big time recruits back off their commitments from these schools who are in trouble.   Are we jumping on any of them?

[BannerMountainMan]

https://twitter.com/arhoopscoop/status/913792733055213568
Up to 15 players could be ineligible.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Booster infractions aren't necessarily tied to a staff or even a program as seen in the potential punishments by the  NCAA. The player and involved booster can both suffer punishment while the institution itself can be cleared of any wrong doing. The player would be declared ineligible and the booster banned in such a case.

Booster involved infractions still require some sort of direct tie in to a school official or coaching staff member or be the result of blatant negligence to cause a school an infraction. Boosters are pretty well monitored these days. Most schools are quick to cut ties in order to limit negative exposure.

Even so, a rogue booster involved with the Monks is not going to be an issue the fbi involves itself with.

It all depends on what the NCAA says.
The school is 95% of the time always going to claim it was an isolated incident, an isolated coach, or an isolated booster.
The NCAA may agree, or they may still rap the school for failure to not be aware, or failure to monitor.
It's more often the school will get hit than not.
That's why the school sends out those mailings to fans describing what a booster is, and what they can/cannot do, trying to raise awareness and educate people.
I get those mailings myself sometimes.

[ShadowHawg]

Could be, although I still think Bentonville is one of the last places I would have expected Malik Monk to land.

Boosters can get colleges in trouble without having any official capacity for the school.

Boosters can get themselves banned and players declared ineligible. Boosters can't act in unilaterally and get serious sanctions applied to the program. The school either has to be complicit in the behavior, ambivalent, or negligent for the school itself to get sanctions. Otherwise boosters of other schools could/would become boosters of a rival school and sabotage them through rules violations.

Monk landing in Bentonville is strange, but when was the last time U of A basketball got a kid from the NWA area that relocated from the other side of the state? Never happened.

Bentonville has had several players across the sports spectrum do this. U of A never. Bentonville several. Looking at this info, if a school did help relocate Monk, which is the most likely culprit give the history?

[HognitiveDissonance]

Boosters can get themselves banned and players declared ineligible. Boosters can't act in unilaterally and get serious sanctions applied to the program. The school either has to be complicit in the behavior, ambivalent, or negligent for the school itself to get sanctions. Otherwise boosters of other schools could/would become boosters of a rival school and sabotage them through rules violations.

Monk landing in Bentonville is strange, but when was the last time U of A basketball got a kid from the NWA area that relocated from the other side of the state? Never happened.

Bentonville has had several players across the sports spectrum do this. U of A never. Bentonville several. Looking at this info, if a school did help relocate Monk, which is the most likely culprit give the history?

I'm only aware of a player if the UA is involved, otherwise I may not have even heard of them.

This is a new twist that is being insinuated in this thread(I think). That a high school, due to its resources, is possibly paying players families and/or doing favors for them to get star athletes to move into their school district...with no college implications involved. That's what I'm reading between the lines.

[gmarv]

 

[mhuff]

I'm only aware of a player if the UA is involved, otherwise I may not have even heard of them.

This is a new twist that is being insinuated in this thread(I think). That a high school, due to its resources, is possibly paying players families and/or doing favors for them to get star athletes to move into their school district...with no college implications involved. That's what I'm reading between the lines.

This type of thing has been going on forever and ever. Either jobs have been provided or maybe it's a simple thing like, come play for us and we'll rent this shack and say you live in the district. Been going on for a hundred years.

[ShadowHawg]

I'm only aware of a player if the UA is involved, otherwise I may not have even heard of them.

This is a new twist that is being insinuated in this thread(I think). That a high school, due to its resources, is possibly paying players families and/or doing favors for them to get star athletes to move into their school district...with no college implications involved. That's what I'm reading between the lines.

When I was in high school there was a coach of one of the biggest schools in the state who would try to talk my parents into moving into his school district. He could arrange for reduced rent and get my mom a job. That was the early 80's

[mizzouman]

There are problems, no doubt ... but grassroots basketball, for example, helps so many kids get exposure and opportunities for DII, low-major D1, mid-major D1, and high-major scholarships. The jostling and cheating typically only plays into the Top 15-20 kids in the country -- the 5-stars -- so in the big picture there is a lot more good than bad. Still, it is a problem and needs addressing.

Agree.

[mizzouman]

I am a worrier by nature and I can tell you that MA is clean. Heath and Pel seem nice but who knows. Nolan wasn't down with handlers back in the day but no one would listen. If Sutton were still coaching I wouldn't be getting any sleep!

MA while at Mizzou was clean.  That's one thing everyone loved about him.  He was always up front, honest and did things the right way...except for one thing, that is. 

[ShadowHawg]

MA while at Mizzou was clean.  That's one thing everyone loved about him.  He was always up front, honest and did things the right way...except for one thing, that is. 

Lol. I would have been upset too. I hope you guys can get your program stabilized again. I enjoyed our series back before we both joined the sec even. I was at Barnhill the night you guys came in and beat us with Smith and Bunton, is that right? I missed the game where Peeler came in and did it again though.

[mizzouman]

Lol. I would have been upset too. I hope you guys can get your program stabilized again. I enjoyed our series back before we both joined the sec even. I was at Barnhill the night you guys came in and beat us with Smith and Bunton, is that right? I missed the game where Peeler came in and did it again though.

Right, we had Doug Smith, Nathan Buntin, Lee Coward, etc. that year.  I believe 1989 or 1990 or there abouts.  Then, Peeler just went of against the Hogs in 1991 or 92, can't remember. 

Those were the Norm days.  He loved Barnhill and the students there at that time.  Students reminded him a little of the Antlers.  He would through chewing gum to the students saying, "Chew on this, not my ass tonight, will ya?"

[MemphisBossHog]

We are talking about an FBI investigation, correct? Not an NCAA type investigation. Yes with all that loot they can indeed afford to find the best attorneys to defend itself (UK) in court but having to deal with the Feds changes the whole dynamics. When others involved (who havent been ID or come forward, yet) they will "talk" to save their azz...

Beside this isnt just a NCAA  College Mens Basketball problem. Same thing happens in football and other sports. Yes, Scalamari had best be scared... And WWW is no security blanket for anyone, cause he could also be in the cross hairs too.

good points all the way around.  I have always thought that Calipari had WWW around to distance himself from the "dirty" work that goes on in basketball recruiting. Plauseable deniability I guess is the term, but you are right, when it comes to doing time in the "pokey,"  WWW might sing like a bird.  Who knows?

I just get sick and tired of Cal and his slick used car salesman ways swooping in and taking whoever he wants after Mike has worked his tail off to recruit a kid the right way.  The scary thing is that KY shouldnt really have to do that.  Just the KY name along should bring top recruits running, but Cal is greedy and apparently has to have not just 1 or 2 5star recruits in a class but 3 or 4 I guess.  Its just sickening.

And I will say again, I truly hope the "Perrys" get busted and exposed for what it at least looks like they did.  Again, MA gets on a kid early.  Develops a relationship so good that the kid calls Arkansas "his Kentucky."  And then after a trip to Italy, miraculously a decommit and a commit to Miss Stake???  WOW.  I hope they get burned. 

[Hawg Red]

Who is WWW?

Worldwide Wes.

[mhuff]

The myth that Ky in BB and Al in FB don't cheat or don't have to cheat is what they want you to think. If you believe that, you are really naive. Google sometime and find out how many times  the NCAA has hit them. Al used to turn in Auburn ,and the next year Auburn would turn in Al. How many times do our Arkansas players have to tell you they are going to Ky for " bidness " reasons before you see the light. Cal has been burned everywhere he has been. History repeats itself. We won't have to worry about him much longer.

[hogwood]

Worldwide Wes.

Didn't realize, then I did. So deleted the comment. Thanks though.

[jackflash]

the only thing that matters  here is that Arkansas remains clear

[The_Bionic_Pig]

Coach Calapari can't jump to the safety of a NBA gig if the FBI is following the $$$ they have no interest in punishing the school (That's the NCAA's infractions committee's arena)

They are attempting to put people in Federal Prison and the bigger the fish the more notoriety.

[Medic821]

That who Perry to Miss State got a bad smell to it.

[mhuff]

Coach Calapari can't jump to the safety of a NBA gig if the FBI is following the $$$ they have no interest in punishing the school (That's the NCAA's infractions committee's arena)

They are attempting to put people in Federal Prison and the bigger the fish the more notoriety.

Yeah, prison has a guy named Big Bubba that's anxiously waiting for Calipari to come be friends with him.

[MountieDawg]

I'd think again.  Were it not for the cheating, Malik Monk would have been a hog, in all likelihood.  Reggie Perry would be coming in next year.  We' d have been able to get five-star players that up till now we could only dream about.  We wouldn't be consigned to recruiting only the leftovers from the cheaters.  For years we've mostly had to take players who weren't good enough for the cheaters to want.  Now the playing field should be much more level.  With a reputation for being clean and with other schools possibly under sanction, we might even have an advantage.  MA has been able to win mostly with players the cheaters didn't consider good enough to pay.  Now that MA might have equal access to the talent, who knows what he might accomplish?

So he would have been a Hog for sure.  If you put the program side by side for the past 5 years, 10 years, 25 years or a 100 years do you really thing being a Hog over a Wildcat would be an obvious choice.   Can you name many college Top 10 recruits in any sport that go to schools with little or no success in 20 years...

[Fan701]

So he would have been a Hog for sure.  If you put the program side by side for the past 5 years, 10 years, 25 years or a 100 years do you really thing being a Hog over a Wildcat would be an obvious choice.   Can you name many college Top 10 recruits in any sport that go to schools with little or no success in 20 years...

I don't know where I wrote "for sure."  Ben Simmons to LSU, Michael Porter to Missouri, to name just two.  LSU and Auburn have been pulling in five stars regularly lately and I don't think they've had a lot of success recently - Auburn pretty much never.

[outlawhogeywells]

Want to hint a the states where those Freshman signed to play? We can take it from there

I would say that Mistake U in Starkvegas should be worried with the reported $250K that the Perry family received