Senator Reid says we're losing in Iraq...

[Publius]

What do the Razorvets and Hogville Iraq soldiers think?

[AR_dustoff]

Honestly, I think we are in a  "no win" situation.  Either we stay here and help this great nation (and there are some really intelligent, caring, humane people here) develop a thriving democracy, or we leave.

If we leave:
CONS:
1.  We open these people up to being controlled by JAM, Al Queda, and other militants. 
2.  Make them lose faith in the US because we left them...again. 
3.  We let Iranian influence help shape this young government.

PROS:
1.  Fewer soldiers deployed here and in harms way.

If we stay:
PROS:
1. WE help shape this democracy.
2. We win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
3. Iraq becomes a strong gov't that supports the US.

CONS:
1.  Soldiers lives in danger every day.
2.  $$$$$$
3.  Stretch our military thinner than we should.

This is all JMHO.

[Publius]

Is progress being made or is Senator Reid right?  What do the troops think of General Patraeus and the surge?  Is it true that the main thrust of the surge will not be felt until at least June?  By the way, thanks for your service and sacrifice.  Stay safe.

[AR_dustoff]

I think General Patraeus is one of the true heroes of this war...he is a soldier's leader.  He will fight along side a private, he's the type of guy you have to remind he's no longer one of the bubba's.  But all that said, I think it might have been too late when he got here.  As far as when the surge will be felt...I'm in the air, all I can personally speak about is aviation threat.  I know we get shot at less now than a few months ago, and thats what matters the most to me right now.

[cubsfan5150]

Honestly, I think we are in a  "no win" situation.  Either we stay here and help this great nation (and there are some really intelligent, caring, humane people here) develop a thriving democracy, or we leave.

If we leave:
CONS:
1.  We open these people up to being controlled by JAM, Al Queda, and other militants. 
2.  Make them lose faith in the US because we left them...again. 
3.  We let Iranian influence help shape this young government.

PROS:
1.  Fewer soldiers deployed here and in harms way.

If we stay:
PROS:
1. WE help shape this democracy.
2. We win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
3. Iraq becomes a strong gov't that supports the US.

CONS:
1.  Soldiers lives in danger every day.
2.  $$$$$$
3.  Stretch our military thinner than we should.

This is all JMHO.

You've hit it right no the head.  The problem is, we can't "WIN" in this situation.  All we can really do is limit the problems.  If we can get out of there, and still leave a strong government, that would be GREAT.

[ray-d]

I am not on active duty anymore but am a retired 22 year vet.  I am and always have been against this war.  Iran & Iraq were my areas of expertise while active.  Before this so called commander & chief ordered our military to invade another country.  Why was this wrong?
•   Iraq was no threat to the United States.
•   Iraq was not a threat to his neighbors.
o   Saddam was contained by the no fly zone.
•   No weapons of mass destruction.
o   The lead inspector begged to give them more time to look for weapons because they were not able to find any.  Why – None there.
•   No real military.
o   This was proved in the 91 war when their army did not give us much of a fight.
o   They did not use any chemical weapons on us in that war because they really did not have much left to use.
o   They have no Navy or Air Force.
•   Saddam was a Sunni; he did not allow Al Qaeda in his country.
o    Yes there were some Al Qaeda up north in the Kurd territory but Saddam did not go up there.
•   Yes Saddam was a bad man.
•   Yes he used chemical weapons on the Kurds after the 91 war, when the Kurds thought the United States would back their uprising against Saddam. 
o   Which we did not do because he was fighting the Iranians.
o   The United States gave Saddam the Chemical Weapons he used on the Kurds and the Iranians, along with most of the weapons he used during the Iraq/Iranian War.
•   Yes Saddam did give money to families of Hama as Suicide Bombers in support of that terrorist organization.
o   Which is not a threat to this country?
•   Since there were no weapons of mass destruction to be found we invade Iraq for Humanitarian reasons, because Saddam killed so many of his people.
o   Why didn't we invade Darfur before Iraq?
   More innocent people, men women and children have been killed there than ever thought of by Saddam.
•   The other reason which is apart of most everything above the 17 U.N. Resolutions.
o   Again Iraq was contained; they were not a threat to the United States or their neighbors.
•   The U.N. Food for Oil Scandal.
o   This was what $1,900,000,000 which was continually brought up by this administration.
•   The administration was upset about the U.N. Food for Oil Scandal but why weren't they upset over the $9,000,000,000 that disappeared after we illegally invaded Iraq?
o   You could see that much money from outer space!

This is just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

[Big Papa Satan]

You'd have more credibility if you left that "illegal war" crap out.

[AR_dustoff]

I am not on active duty anymore but am a retired 22 year vet.  I am and always have been against this war.  Iran & Iraq were my areas of expertise while active.  Before this so called commander & chief ordered our military to invade another country.  Why was this wrong?
•   Iraq was no threat to the United States.
•   Iraq was not a threat to his neighbors.
o   Saddam was contained by the no fly zone.
•   No weapons of mass destruction.
o   The lead inspector begged to give them more time to look for weapons because they were not able to find any.  Why – None there.
•   No real military.
o   This was proved in the 91 war when their army did not give us much of a fight.
o   They did not use any chemical weapons on us in that war because they really did not have much left to use.
o   They have no Navy or Air Force.
•   Saddam was a Sunni; he did not allow Al Qaeda in his country.
o    Yes there were some Al Qaeda up north in the Kurd territory but Saddam did not go up there.
•   Yes Saddam was a bad man.
•   Yes he used chemical weapons on the Kurds after the 91 war, when the Kurds thought the United States would back their uprising against Saddam. 
o   Which we did not do because he was fighting the Iranians.
o   The United States gave Saddam the Chemical Weapons he used on the Kurds and the Iranians, along with most of the weapons he used during the Iraq/Iranian War.
•   Yes Saddam did give money to families of Hama as Suicide Bombers in support of that terrorist organization.
o   Which is not a threat to this country?
•   Since there were no weapons of mass destruction to be found we invade Iraq for Humanitarian reasons, because Saddam killed so many of his people.
o   Why didn't we invade Darfur before Iraq?
   More innocent people, men women and children have been killed there than ever thought of by Saddam.
•   The other reason which is apart of most everything above the 17 U.N. Resolutions.
o   Again Iraq was contained; they were not a threat to the United States or their neighbors.
•   The U.N. Food for Oil Scandal.
o   This was what $1,900,000,000 which was continually brought up by this administration.
•   The administration was upset about the U.N. Food for Oil Scandal but why weren't they upset over the $9,000,000,000 that disappeared after we illegally invaded Iraq?
o   You could see that much money from outer space!

This is just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

I respect your opinion, but i take issue with many of your statements...
1. Iraq was/is a threat to the US.  If you allow terrorist to train here, you are supporting terrorism.  Were the pretenses we went to war on completely consistent, maybe not, but they were a threat (more to follow on WMD)
2.  You say no weapons of mass destruction...but that depends on your definition of WMD, and your security clearance level...and I will leave it at that, just trust me on this one.
3.  You say no real Army, but do you understand how these guys view war?  They see it as a war of attrition and they believe when they "make" us leave they have won, and once again some strong armed dictator will rise to power...unless we help them establish a real government.  Sadr would have already taken power if we were gone.  He is the next big threat to us.
4.  You say they did not use chemical weapons because they had very little...that is your largest wrong assumption!! They had a sh*tload of it.  I've seen alot with my own eyes!
5.  You say Saddam was Sunni and didnt allow Al Queda here...again WRONG.  He was Sunni, but the city I'm stationed at is called Al Kut. Just off the Tigris, close to Iran...very much Sh ite.  Very heavy with Al Queda and Sadr's Sh ite militias.


And lastly...how can you say this war was an "illegal invasion"?  Ask the people of Iraq, the majority, if they want us here...the answer is yes!! I can tell you how many people we've Medevac from the town, provided support for, medical care,etc.  I've flown over alot of this country and more times than not these people will wave and smile when you fly over...the kids will run out and follow the bird until they tire out.   There were some neccesary things we did here.  What is there left to do here?  I'm not sure, but we have to help them establish a solid gov't, or it will come back and bite us in the a** and another generation will be here finishing this thing up, unless we do it right now!

Dustoff, Boss Hog 16------->OUT

edited because the first time I tried to type Sh ite it came on here as crape

[Publius]

Hussein and al Quaida are both Sunni. 

[sowmonella]

Harry Reid is a putz.

[Ftsmithmike]

My little bro called me the other day from oceanside and said a young man named Pvt McCain just arrived in the unit. He will be joining my bro for his second tour as Marine Infantry in Iraq. I am under the impression this kid is a McCain as in John McCain and if thats true I dont think he would support the surge unless he believed in the mission. Its tough to get ahold of Jon so I havent been able to get him to confirm the rumors(He was told by his team leader it was the senetors son but it was not to become an issue) but maybe some of you know. Now I know this is about Ried but I think if you look at the motivation for these two individuals you have to consider that Reid is one of the guys who voted for the invasion and has since pulled his support( as the polls go so goes Ried) while McCain is standing up for a very unpopular decision which will likely end his carreer. So considering all that I choose to support the mission. I also believe we need to fund the war to the extent that its asked for by the military. How can you tell soldiers "sorry about the air support boys but we are in the middle of a very hot political race here at home." Its getting sicker by the day. And yes Reid is a putz.

[PIGINAPOKE]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

[Big Papa Satan]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

This ain't Nam, hoss.

Senator Reid needs to be strung up and shot for treason against the United States of America.

[ThisLittlePiggie]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html

[Whataboar™]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

I get so doggone tired of hearing this crap about Bush lying.
Everybody, including the U.N. and Iraq's many neighbors, thought Saddam had WMDs at the time.
Even Pres. Clinton has admitted that his administration thought Saddam possessed WMDs.
So, please, lose the revisionist history on the topic of WMDs.
Of course, I realize I can provide you, and others like you, with mountains of prove that Bush acted in good faith regarding the intelligence at the time and it won't matter one bit.
You're convinced Bush is Satan himself and that won't change.
A buffoon, huh?
If you recall, that was just one of the many terms used to describe Winston Churchill's view that Natzi Germany posed a threat to Great Britain and other free countries prior to WW II.
I'm pretty sure if you'd been around at the time, you wouldn't have shaken his hand, either.
As for your service in Vietnam. You have every justification to be bitter about our government's actions in that war.
Boys like you, who were treated like dogs when they returned home, were heroes then, just as the men and women returning from Afghanistan and Iraq are heroes today.
And while we may disagree on this war and Pres. Bush's leadership, our country owes you a tremendous debt for your military service.
If my dad, a decorated WW II vet, were still around he'd personally salute you.
He instilled that same respect for military service in me as well.
Again, thanks, PIGINAPOKE, for your service to our great nation.
We'll just agree to disagree on this issue.

[Ftsmithmike]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html
[/quote
This is the best link ever posted on the subject of the Flip Flop

[Ftsmithmike]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html

I see noone on the left side of the coin wants to touch to that link.

Heres a link that might make them feel more comfortable.
(Hey who stole my link?)

[PIGINAPOKE]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

This ain't Nam, hoss.

Senator Reid needs to be strung up and shot for treason against the United States of America.

Hoss....Thats nice..Hop Sing is right here.. Hold on.

Lets start first by stating I have earned the right to say and do what I want to in the United States within the laws. My dd-214 is plenty of clout. Look back at WW2.. We took islands and countries back on a monthly basis..In this joke we can't even control a green zone?

38th parallel ring a bell? May not..Anyhoo, The US has gone into one country the size of friggin Poland..And can not git it done. Oh Afganistan was left in 45 days to hunt down Dads bully.. 2 countries. My bad.

You can think what you want. I respect your opinion, But the last time this lopsided of a defeat was near was The Alamo. The President yelled Wolf and people bought it. I have searched the internet for months for one picture of a WMD..No luck.

Dip our bullets and bombs in pigs blood. No one dies a Martyr ? See how they run..Just a thought.

I am all for freedoom..I fought for it..For a good reason I would go right back in at my age...Not for this .Not for Bush. Dads bully is dead..

[ThisLittlePiggie]

Take all those terrorists out on Iwo Jima or any other South Pacific island and this war would be over in a week. You cannot fight that kind of war anymore. Period. Now you have to fight a POLITICALLY CORRECT war. Screw that. Bomb the MFers.

[razorpimp]

Take all those terrorists out on Iwo Jima or any other South Pacific island and this war would be over in a week. You cannot fight that kind of war anymore. Period. Now you have to fight a POLITICALLY CORRECT war. Screw that. Bomb the MFers.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.......you must have one heckuvah red neck....

[mword]

This war shows what happens when a man is on a power binge.

He lied and thousands of people died for it. I was in on the last mess. Nam.

Even as a veteran I would not shake this guys hand....Baffon

This ain't Nam, hoss.

Senator Reid needs to be strung up and shot for treason against the United States of America.

You got that right even if he might be right.

[ThisLittlePiggie]

Take all those terrorists out on Iwo Jima or any other South Pacific island and this war would be over in a week. You cannot fight that kind of war anymore. Period. Now you have to fight a POLITICALLY CORRECT war. Screw that. Bomb the MFers.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.......you must have one heckuvah red neck....

No, my neck is probably whiter than the razorpimp.