Lets compare Hog and St Louis Card fans

[hogsanity]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans?  If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired?  How long has it been since their last World Series title?  Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs?  Have they challenged for the title every year?  Did you quit them after they were swept last year? 

[Big_D]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans? If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired? How long has it been since their last World Series title? Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs? Have they challenged for the title every year? Did you quit them after they were swept last year?

No , because they had the best record in baseball AND  won their division.

Plus LaRussa has won a world series, now let HDN have the best record in the SEC win it and go to a BCS bowl and we won't be pissed off either.

[hogsanity]

The cards have been to the big dance.....Nutt has not even sniffed a BCS bowl. Not a fair comparison.

So you are saying a coach or program is a failure if it does not play for the NC at some point?  Even though, as we saw last year, you dont even always control your own destiny in that regard? Even though LArus can not win the big game ( at least not yet with the cards ) he is successful because he ALMOST did? 

Or is the hatred of HDN really more about the fact that for some reason people just do not like him, and really has not as much to do with the record as people act? 

I dont really know, I hate the Cards anyway and hope they get broomed out in embarrassing fashion yet again, but hey I dont hate Larusa.   

[WilsonHog]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans? If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired? How long has it been since their last World Series title? Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs? Have they challenged for the title every year? Did you quit them after they were swept last year?

Sort of apples and oranges, but I guess both are fruit, so here goes.

The Cardinals have at least won a division championship if something like four out of the last five years. Moreover, there is a committment to excellence there that is obvious from the front office on down.   There is a feeling, as often communicated by the ownership, that they owe something to their fans. They recognize that the fans are the true customers, and that they exist only to serve those customers.

Now plug the UA football program into that last paragraph and see if it makes sense.   

[hogsanity]

So as long as the UA appears to be trying to do something, ie trying a new coach every X number of years, than ALMOST making it is okay? 

For one, the same people who say that about the cards will bash someone like the Braves for only winning one title yet they have won 14 div titles in a row.  Not saying you would do so, but many would.  And, bring up the fact that HDn has been to the SEC title game, it is qucikly pointed out that they got crushed there. 

I guess that after 6 months on here I still do not know exactly what people want from this program.  Is it 8-9 wins per year?  Do they have to be "quality wins"  Do they have to win the SECCG?  Play in a BCs bowl?  Just what will it take for this program to be considered a success by Hog fans?

[hogsanity]

...to not suck. Right now, we suck badly. Other "lesser" teams have lost to USC but did not let them score a touchdown every time they had the frickin football. We aren't competitive, we aren't smart, our program has lost it's pride...and you pretend that everything is just rosy. I want a program that (win or lose) is competitivce in every game, fights till the end, has coaches who beleive in their program and who don't look disheveled and confused while working the sidelines. This program is in disarray and you are absolutely blind to this...not very surprising after reading one too many of your posts.

I do not think every thing is rosy with the Fb team.  Until they, whoever the they may be, figures out how to get some big time DL talent and some decent depth at OL they will continue to be middle of the road most years, worse some, and 9 or 10 wins occassionally.  Those things have always been the thing here.  Look at ALL the good teams we have had since Broyles left. 

Holtz, won a lot of games til the Dl fell off, then he left.  Hatfield, ran the ball down peoples throats, and had solid DL.  Then he quit recruting/whiffed/ or whatever happened and he left. Lets not mention Crow.  Ford, he knew he needed Linemen and he got them, only he didnt get to hang around for their JR and Sr seasons, but Nutt won with them.  Th Dl in 03 was pretty good and we had good cover corners who let us use the Lbs in a lot of run support/blitzes. 

They can sign 100 5 star Qb's, but if they do not have guys to block for the or guys to go after the other teams QB then there will be many long days at blackrock for this program. 

That beig said, i just can not put all the blame on this HC because he is not the first and will not be the last to have this problem at the UA

[WilsonHog]

So as long as the UA appears to be trying to do something, ie trying a new coach every X number of years, than ALMOST making it is okay?

For one, the same people who say that about the cards will bash someone like the Braves for only winning one title yet they have won 14 div titles in a row. Not saying you would do so, but many would. And, bring up the fact that HDn has been to the SEC title game, it is qucikly pointed out that they got crushed there.

I guess that after 6 months on here I still do not know exactly what people want from this program. Is it 8-9 wins per year? Do they have to be "quality wins" Do they have to win the SECCG? Play in a BCs bowl? Just what will it take for this program to be considered a success by Hog fans?

The easiest answer for me is to go back and look at the entire body of what Holtz and Hatfield accomplished at Arkansas.

That's what I expect every football coach at UA to accomplish. If Nutt is fired and Butch Davis is hired, I will expect that out of him, and be every bit as upset at him as I am at Nutt if he doesn't produce it. 

[DirkPiggler]

ss,dd

[attachment deleted by admin]

[3kgthog]

I'm a fan of both teams and I have not quit the Cards no matter how many games they have lost.  I've also not quit the Razorbacks, but it's getting harder to not quit the football team.  Football tickets make up a large portion of my yearly expenses and I don't think I'm getting my money's worth.  I'm not an HDN supporter anymore, but I don't feel it's unrealistic to ask our football program to win a damn game in October.  We haven't done that since 2002.  I'd even settle for finishing 3rd in the West every year, but we can't even do that.  It's not like Hog fans are asking for West championships and SEC titles every season.  I think the majority would give up their first born just to see us make the SECCG and actually show up to play for once.  I'd almost donate a kidney to see us make a BCS bowl and get destroyed.  At least we could say we had been there.   

[Inigo Montoya]

Fan of both.  Larusa should be there until he kicks the bucket.  IF they stay healthy through the playoffs there winning the World Series this year I believe.

[sooie dog]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans? If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired? How long has it been since their last World Series title? Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs? Have they challenged for the title every year? Did you quit them after they were swept last year?

You should change you name to Nutt Job.  Don't even ask why.

[hogsanity]

So as long as the UA appears to be trying to do something, ie trying a new coach every X number of years, than ALMOST making it is okay?

For one, the same people who say that about the cards will bash someone like the Braves for only winning one title yet they have won 14 div titles in a row. Not saying you would do so, but many would. And, bring up the fact that HDn has been to the SEC title game, it is qucikly pointed out that they got crushed there.

I guess that after 6 months on here I still do not know exactly what people want from this program. Is it 8-9 wins per year? Do they have to be "quality wins" Do they have to win the SECCG? Play in a BCs bowl? Just what will it take for this program to be considered a success by Hog fans?

The easiest answer for me is to go back and look at the entire body of what Holtz and Hatfield accomplished at Arkansas.

That's what I expect every football coach at UA to accomplish. If Nutt is fired and Butch Davis is hired, I will expect that out of him, and be every bit as upset at him as I am at Nutt if he doesn't produce it.

Ok, but at what point, after going through how many coaches, do you start to think maybe the coach IS NOT THE MAIN PROBLEM?  Holtz was/is highly respected, Hatfield was in his day, but FB has passed his offense by.  Broyles was a GREAT coach.  Yet these 3 won exactly 1 NC and that was 41 yrs ago. 

And again, I realize this is where I split with many, I see a winner as someone who wins more games than he doesnt.  Does that mean HDN was a loser lat year, yep it does, but not as a overall coach.   

[HogFather]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans? If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired? How long has it been since their last World Series title? Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs? Have they challenged for the title every year? Did you quit them after they were swept last year?

Yes, Larussa has proven time and time again that he can't win the the best team in baseball.  The Cardinals of the past three seasons and with the "Bash Brothers" of Oakland, though he did win one out of 3? 4? who cares?  I'm not a Cardinal fan so I hope he does not get fired.

[TulsaHogFan]

Ok, but at what point, after going through how many coaches, do you start to think maybe the coach IS NOT THE MAIN PROBLEM? Holtz was/is highly respected, Hatfield was in his day, but FB has passed his offense by. Broyles was a GREAT coach. Yet these 3 won exactly 1 NC and that was 41 yrs ago.

And again, I realize this is where I split with many, I see a winner as someone who wins more games than he doesnt. Does that mean HDN was a loser lat year, yep it does, but not as a overall coach.

Ok i will be the sucker.  What is the real problem?  You are asking what if the coach is not the problem?  Well is it assistant coaches?  Cause if so, thats HDN's responsibility, fire the ones responsible and hire new ones.  Is it Playcalling? Oh wait yea thats 100% HDN.  Is it recruiting?  Cause uhhh HDN is the recruiting Coordinator.  Is it Facilities?  Cause i doubt its that due to the things i see with my own eyes and recruits comments about the facilities. 

So what exactly is the problem?  Oh i forgot, there is no problem in your eyes.  Everything is perfect.

[WilsonHog]

Two points.

(1) I've never said HDN was a "loser" as a coach, but I do believe that there is a time when a coach has overstayed his welcome.  Tommy West is doing a pretty good job at Memphis, and if you'll recall he was fired at Memphis.  When the Tigers hired him, West commented that he was a better coach at that point than when he was at Clemson, because of what he had learned from that experience.

(2)  What you're missing in your "6-5 argument" is the idea of relativity.

If I woke up tomorrow as a Tennessee fan, I would tell you that anything less than 8-3 for the Vols is a "losing" season.  As a matter of fact, as a Vol fan I'd be ready for a change after two or three 8-3 seasons.     

I've been involved with our local high school program as a player, fan, and coach for 30 years.  I can tell you that our fan base, our players, our coaches, and our administrators are upset with any less than seven wins a year, and that is acceptable only if we win a couple at state.  Six wins is unthinkable. Shoot, our smallest crowd of the year is usually for the first playoff game, because our fans just assume we win it and they'll see us in week 2.

It's expectations. Some schools in our area would be tickled to just go 6-4 and make the playoffs. Not us; that would be cause for unrest.

[The Max Swineberg 7]

LaRussa has a championship ring.

And, the team was awful when he and Jocketty got there. 

BTW, I really love our owners.  When they switched from turf to grass, I knew they were going to be just fine.

[5 little pigs]

Let us compare......LaRussa had IMPROVED the Cards from pre LaRussa era...........Nutt's performance is going the opposite way and has for several years.  He simply doesn't have what it takes to win consistently in D1.  I don't know if Butch Davis is the answer, but what is evident is......Nutt is not making progress and it's time to give someone else an opportunity to succeed!!!

[JJHog]

How many of you are both Hog and Card fans? If the Cards do not win the series this yr, should LaRusa be fired? How long has it been since their last World Series title? Have you stopped watching/listening because they have not won a series title in almost 20 yrs? Have they challenged for the title every year? Did you quit them after they were swept last year?

I am not a fair weather fan. I hang it there with them, but I am close to falling off, you can only take so much when it appears that nobody gives a dang up there about winning. We're like the dadgum Cubs ownership.

I'm not expecting 10-1 every year, but we're getting blasted each week, no chance to win.

There is no comparsion, the Cards compete on a different level (like the UA did in years past). The Hogs have virtually no chance of winning any meaningful games this year (and last). Their getting their arse kicked every week and I have little confidence in them.