Poll: Mike Anderson

[rzrbackramsfan]

Fair take.

How confident are you personally in Mike's abilities as a coach? Do you have concerns that the level of talent won't be enough to sustain success with him as the head coach? This is where I'm at. Watching the Mississippi State game, it just smacked you across the face that he was out-coached. We've seen it many times before. There are times when Mike actually makes some good coaching decisions, but it seems like most of the times when it clearly comes down to coaching, he's on the losing end. Do you think, even with the level of talent we're thinking we have coming in, that Mike's style of play can be truly successful now?

These are all things I think we all need to take stock. Not just the negatives and not just the positives. This isn't black and white. What do we really want as fans that is reasonable and realistic?  How do we properly gauge disappointment and success? I think we're all still trying to figure that out. I know me myself I've gone back and forth with where my expectations should be (mostly because I just really see the need for this to work with Mike).

That was another take by Nolan. What makes kryschevki, boehim, and all the elite coaches good coaches?  We don't really know too much but what makes calipari a good coach? Recruiting. 

After that episode of bo, I'm under the impression that really only one thing matters and that is recruiting.  You have good players you have a good team, elite player=elite team.

I think another poster pointed out that ms. St.'s last two classes were ranked 9 and 22, ours definitely weren't.  Take out Malik Newman and that 9th rated class is probably still top 25.  So I'd say CMA got out recruited not outcoached.

Outside of the ms.st. Game, let's take a look at what it takes to make the NCAAT: being 3-5 in the sec, and that roughly means we would need to recruit the 3rd to 5th best in the sec on average, which i think we're probably around 5-6 in recruiting on average. That's where we usually finish too but when we're on the bubble it seems like they let 3 sec teams in and when we finished 2nd they let like 6 teams in. 

So when we get to 2018 and stack that class on top of class ranked just outside of the top 25 and a class ranked around 20, that might be 3 or 4th in an improved sec.  decency matters a lot too since usually only the role players stay for more than 2 years, so maybe we can say that '18 plus '17 class would put us second.

Now teams can underperform and overperform but I don't think that CMA teams have underperformed that much and have often times over performed. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

Yes. He would have never been hired in first place if we knew he'd dance once in first 6 years. And I don't see anything that makes me think we dance in year 7 either.....

Sunk cost though.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

I actually think he has enough talent coming in the next few years to offset his poor coaching. 

[hobhog]

I actually think he has enough talent coming in the next few years to offset his poor coaching.

We could DOMINATE the N.I.T.

[Trystran]

Why is it that people say "Mike gets another year if he makes it to the tournament"...?

That's literally saying "Keep our coach because he helped us be one of the top 68 teams in the country." SIXTY-EIGHT.

Really??? In 5 seasons, we have been in the top 68 ONE time... our 6th season is sketchy already.

No. Just no.

[Hawg Red]

That was another take by Nolan. What makes kryschevki, boehim, and all the elite coaches good coaches?  We don't really know too much but what makes calipari a good coach? Recruiting. 

After that episode of bo, I'm under the impression that really only one thing matters and that is recruiting.  You have good players you have a good team, elite player=elite team.

I think another poster pointed out that ms. St.'s last two classes were ranked 9 and 22, ours definitely weren't.  Take out Malik Newman and that 9th rated class is probably still top 25.  So I'd say CMA got out recruited not outcoached.

Outside of the ms.st. Game, let's take a look at what it takes to make the NCAAT: being 3-5 in the sec, and that roughly means we would need to recruit the 3rd to 5th best in the sec on average, which i think we're probably around 5-6 in recruiting on average. That's where we usually finish too but when we're on the bubble it seems like they let 3 sec teams in and when we finished 2nd they let like 6 teams in. 

So when we get to 2018 and stack that class on top of class ranked just outside of the top 25 and a class ranked around 20, that might be 3 or 4th in an improved sec.  decency matters a lot too since usually only the role players stay for more than 2 years, so maybe we can say that '18 plus '17 class would put us second.

Now teams can underperform and overperform but I don't think that CMA teams have underperformed that much and have often times over performed.

So maybe we should get someone who can recruit better than 5th in the conference? If all comes down to recruiting, your theory says we will be in trouble most years. Talent is up in the state of Arkansas, but is it up enough to keep us nationally relevant for the next 5-10 years? I'd rather have someone who can coach up regular top 15-25 talent better than Mike has been. I don't think it can be left to just quality of recruiting right now. I think at Arkansas, you have to coach talent up. And me, personally, I don't think Mike recruits tough players for his system. He doesn't recruit enough rebounders or junkyard dogs, and that's something he needs with so many finesse guys on the roster most years.

[elksnort]

No!! Arkansas should follow the Andy Kennedy model at Ole Miss. This program is a big time rebuilding job. We are getting some pieces in place.

and continue to be mediocre?

[elksnort]

I actually think he has enough talent coming in the next few years to offset his poor coaching. 

yes but wouldn't it be nice to see that Talent get maximized and said it minimized

[elksnort]

Instead

[rzrbackramsfan]

So maybe we should get someone who can recruit better than 5th in the conference? If all comes down to recruiting, your theory says we will be in trouble most years. Talent is up in the state of Arkansas, but is it up enough to keep us nationally relevant for the next 5-10 years? I'd rather have someone who can coach up regular top 15-25 talent better than Mike has been. I don't think it can be left to just quality of recruiting right now. I think at Arkansas, you have to coach talent up. And me, personally, I don't think Mike recruits tough players for his system. He doesn't recruit enough rebounders or junkyard dogs, and that's something he needs with so many finesse guys on the roster most years.

Fair enough, but mikes recruiting has made some sense to me.  And when mike has had top 25ish talent he had the tournament year.  I don't think there's another time we've had top 25 talent. Our teams mainly have over achieved their recruiting rankings in the conference right?

[rzrbackramsfan]

Fair enough, but mikes recruiting has made some sense to me.  And when mike has had top 25ish talent he had the tournament year.  I don't think there's another time we've had top 25 talent. Our teams mainly have over achieved their recruiting rankings in the conference right?

Oh yea.  He has. 

Arkansas' 247 composite team ranking in the sec
2012: 9th qualls
2013: 4th portis
2014: 7th beard
2015: 14th Whitt 
2016: 5th barford
Avg=7.8

2017: 5th gafford
2018: 1st but expect 2 or 3 perry

Now let's look at sec finishes

2012-13: 7th
13-14: 5th
14-15: 2nd
15-16: t-8th

Avg=5.5

It's almost like a formula to predict how we're gonna finish in the conference:

Previous years recruiting class plus two

except for the terrible recruiting year and portis' year where it took 2 years.

So using that formula we'll finish 3rd this year in the sec or because of whitts year 4th or 5th

17-18 will be 3rd in conference
18-19 will be 1st

[hobhog]

Fair enough, but mikes recruiting has made some sense to me.  And when mike has had top 25ish talent he had the tournament year.  I don't think there's another time we've had top 25 talent. Our teams mainly have over achieved their recruiting rankings in the conference right?

What?!?

[hobhog]

Oh yea.  He has. 

Arkansas' 247 composite team ranking in the sec
2012: 9th qualls
2013: 4th portis
2014: 7th beard
2015: 14th Whitt 
2016: 5th barford
Avg=7.8

2017: 5th gafford
2018: 1st but expect 2 or 3 perry

Now let's look at sec finishes

2012-13: 7th
13-14: 5th
14-15: 2nd
15-16: t-8th

Avg=5.5

It's almost like a formula to predict how we're gonna finish in the conference:

Previous years recruiting class plus two

except for the terrible recruiting year and portis' year where it took 2 years.

So using that formula we'll finish 3rd this year in the sec or because of whitts year 4th or 5th

17-18 will be 3rd in conference
18-19 will be 1st

Huh?

[rzrbackramsfan]

What?!?

What?!?

Want to be more specific?   

I said mikes recruiting success is predictable and showed empirically that CMA is not completely immune to personnel's importance on success but that he has actually over achieved a little bit.

[BigE_23]

6 years, one tournament, and a lot of piss poor basketball. One of the best arena's in college sports and a brand new basketball center, tons of in-state talent to recruit from (much of which is playing else where BTW - which to me is a separate grounds for dismissal) and playing in the weakest P5 basketball conference in the NCAA. There is no excuse for Arkansas to not be a perennial tourney team.

Shouldn't we expect to be one of the top 66 teams in the country? Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[hobhog]

Want to be more specific?   

I said mikes recruiting success is predictable and showed empirically that CMA is not completely immune to personnel's importance on success but that he has actually over achieved a little bit.

So he has recruited poorly and over achieved with his poor talent? You have GOT to be kidding me.

[rzrbackramsfan]

So he has recruited poorly and over achieved with his poor talent? You have GOT to be kidding me.

His recruiting classes have been aight, an average  of around 8th in the conference.  His placing in the conference has also been aight, finishing 6th in the recruiting conference.

that is overachieving compared to his recruiting.

So going forward, we can expect better recruiting which will translate into finishing better in the conference.

[rzrbackramsfan]

6 years, one tournament, and a lot of piss poor basketball. One of the best arena's in college sports and a brand new basketball center, tons of in-state talent to recruit from (much of which is playing else where BTW - which to me is a separate grounds for dismissal) and playing in the weakest P5 basketball conference in the NCAA. There is no excuse for Arkansas to not be a perennial tourney team.

Shouldn't we expect to be one of the top 66 teams in the country? Oh how the mighty have fallen.

I'm going to just take one thing from what you said: the basketball facility.  Recruiting has had an uptick since the .

[BigE_23]

I'm going to just take one thing from what you said: the basketball facility.  Recruiting has had an uptick since the .

The product on the court certainly hasn't improved.

[rzrbackramsfan]

The product on the court certainly hasn't improved.

From last year?

[ThisTeetsTaken]

yes but wouldn't it be nice to see that Talent get maximized and said it minimized

Of course.  I'm not saying it's a good thing or even acceptable really. To have the "Palace of the Midwest" and our history we should have a top coach. IMO

[The_Iceman]

From last year?

Well, when you set the bar that low, hard not to do better.

[BigE_23]

From last year?

Is that your standard as a fan? It's not mine...

[Brandon72]

Well on a very positive note, the women's team is off to an 0-4 start.  Maybe they should kneel harder for the Anthem.  Hope they go 0-16.  At least Mike's guys stand for the Anthem.  Pretty much all I can say positive for them at this stage in the season. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

Well, when you set the bar that low, hard not to do better.

Is that your standard as a fan? It's not mine...

What's the bar then?

[The_Iceman]

What's the bar then?

NCAA Tournament.

[hobhog]

His recruiting classes have been aight, an average  of around 8th in the conference.  His placing in the conference has also been aight, finishing 6th in the recruiting conference.

that is overachieving compared to his recruiting.

So going forward, we can expect better recruiting which will translate into finishing better in the conference.

I think I just realized why we can't and won't ever agree. I am a Cubs fan.....

[rzrbackramsfan]

NCAA Tournament.

So we made the ncaat last year? He said we haven't improved.  The better question is we haven't improved from what year? Because this is in my opinion mikes 2nd or 3rd best team since he's been here

[Youngsta71701]

Oh yea.  He has. 

Arkansas' 247 composite team ranking in the sec
2012: 9th qualls
2013: 4th portis
2014: 7th beard
2015: 14th Whitt 
2016: 5th barford
Avg=7.8

2017: 5th gafford
2018: 1st but expect 2 or 3 perry

Now let's look at sec finishes

2012-13: 7th
13-14: 5th
14-15: 2nd
15-16: t-8th

Avg=5.5

It's almost like a formula to predict how we're gonna finish in the conference:

Previous years recruiting class plus two

except for the terrible recruiting year and portis' year where it took 2 years.

So using that formula we'll finish 3rd this year in the sec or because of whitts year 4th or 5th

17-18 will be 3rd in conference
18-19 will be 1st

He was talking about top 25 overall not in the SEC or individually. There are only 14 schools in the SEC BTW. And are you talking about these player rankings at their respective position?

[rzrbackramsfan]

He was talking about top 25 overall not in the SEC or individually. There are only 14 schools in the SEC BTW. And are you talking about these player rankings at their respective position?

I know he was but I think it's more relevant to talk about how you're doing in your own conference.  To make the tournament consistently we need to be about 3-5th in the conference.

I was naming the most memorable player from each class so the reader knew which class I was talking about.

[1highhog]

I disagree.

Well hells bells, stop the presses!  Who ever would have thought that FCJ would object to CMA being fired,,,

[joco]

No

[1highhog]

Have I or have I not saw posters in the Jump Ball Forum talk about next years class being #1?  I want to know #1 where.  There's no way that any class MA is bringing in will ever be #1 not even top ten with Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, etc. of the basketball world.  That's like I heard on here one time that one of the classes that Heath had was top 5, baloney!  The only #1 rated class that I have ever known to be signed was by Nolan, and it didn't make it here, anyone remember that one?  MA will never have a #1 rated class and if he did he wouldn't know how to Coach it. 

Anybody see that tremendous victory last night, whoohoo, we almost blew at Mizzou at home!  A pitiful team, but we finally got a win against and SEC opponent at home.  Maybe that'll take the sting out of some of these next few losses coming up in the next 3 games coming up.

[rude1]

Have I or have I not saw posters in the Jump Ball Forum talk about next years class being #1?  I want to know #1 where.  There's no way that any class MA is bringing in will ever be #1 not even top ten with Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, etc. of the basketball world.  That's like I heard on here one time that one of the classes that Heath had was top 5, baloney!  The only #1 rated class that I have ever known to be signed was by Nolan, and it didn't make it here, anyone remember that one?

It's the 2018 class, which means nothing being ranked No.1 two years out. Most programs don't look to sign two years out. In two years after the dust settles, let's see if that is even a top 15-20 class. I am thinking it's not likely it will be.

[Dominicanhog]

Well hells bells, stop the presses!  Who ever would have thought that FCJ would object to CMA being fired,,,

or that you'd be for it...

[1highhog]

or that you'd be for it...

I wasn't for hiring him, knew it'd be a mistake and still hold firm to it!  Who's right, me or our old pal FCJ?  For the most years that any former major basketball power would give a Coach, (that is, 6 years of mediocrity) I give you our basketball Hogs.

[bvillepig]

Geez  How can some one say he was a mistake when you have no idea who we would have hired and what the outcome would have been. I am for who ever the coach is and not just MA but he has been an improvement over the last two. We will be able to tell by the end of this year how it will play out.

[Arky]

I wasn't for hiring him, knew it'd be a mistake and still hold firm to it!  Who's right, me or our old pal FCJ?  For the most years that any former major basketball power would give a Coach, (that is, 6 years of mediocrity) I give you our basketball Hogs.

pillowhead isn't going to like this...

[1highhog]

Geez  How can some one say he was a mistake when you have no idea who we would have hired and what the outcome would have been. I am for who ever the coach is and not just MA but he has been an improvement over the last two. We will be able to tell by the end of this year how it will play out.

I repeat, no program should take 6 years to build in basketball.  Heck, after 4 years we seem to have half of Hogville wanting to fire CBB, 4 years for a Football Coach that is having to rebuild a program that was coming off of a mess as bad as basketball, remember, you have 85 young men to recruit against the best Conference in all of College Football, and Arkansas at the most produces 2 maybe 3 that can play in the SEC a year.  While in basketball you need how many?  And you need how many studs?  And Arkansas is a hotbed of basketball talent every year now.  At the most, a basketball Coach should get 4 years to rebuild, not 6 or more, as MA is not going to be fired even if he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year, unbelievable.

[elksnort]

I repeat, no program should take 6 years to build in basketball.  Heck, after 4 years we seem to have half of Hogville wanting to fire CBB, 4 years for a Football Coach that is having to rebuild a program that was coming off of a mess as bad as basketball, remember, you have 85 young men to recruit against the best Conference in all of College Football, and Arkansas at the most produces 2 maybe 3 that can play in the SEC a year.  While in basketball you need how many?  And you need how many studs?  And Arkansas is a hotbed of basketball talent every year now.  At the most, a basketball Coach should get 4 years to rebuild, not 6 or more, as MA is not going to be fired even if he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year, unbelievable.

I have tried to explain this, but to no avail with those who have already made up their minds.

Yeah great. Alleged great class of players coming up whose talents will be maximized or not?

[hogsanity]

I repeat, no program should take 6 years to build in basketball.  Heck, after 4 years we seem to have half of Hogville wanting to fire CBB, 4 years for a Football Coach that is having to rebuild a program that was coming off of a mess as bad as basketball, remember, you have 85 young men to recruit against the best Conference in all of College Football, and Arkansas at the most produces 2 maybe 3 that can play in the SEC a year.  While in basketball you need how many?  And you need how many studs?  And Arkansas is a hotbed of basketball talent every year now.  At the most, a basketball Coach should get 4 years to rebuild, not 6 or more, as MA is not going to be fired even if he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year, unbelievable.

Apparently at MIss St it only takes 2

[bvillepig]

We will have to disagree on the rebuild.  We rebuilt in 3 years with the 27 win season. Then some bad things happened last year and we had a mediocre year.  The verdict is not in on this season and he is reloading.  Let this one play out.
 
I don't care who the coach is but if we are going to replace it needs to be an upgrade and not some wish list. 

[Atlhogfan1]

We will have to disagree on the rebuild.  We rebuilt in 3 years with the 27 win season. Then some bad things happened last year and we had a mediocre year.  The verdict is not in on this season and he is reloading.  Let this one play out.
 
I don't care who the coach is but if we are going to replace it needs to be an upgrade and not some wish list.

We weren't built.  We had Portis and a very manageable schedule for a high win total season.  When something is built, it is sustainable. 

[upperdeck_hawg]

Yes he should. We fired Heath and Pelphrey for similar results. Why give Anderson any different treatment.

[Sivad]

MA is not going to be fired even if he misses the NCAA Tournament again this year, unbelievable.

Of course not. He is "NolAnderson". The reincarnation of 40 Minutes of Hell, etc.
He can never be fired - by only one school in America - Arkansas.

[Youngsta71701]

I know he was but I think it's more relevant to talk about how you're doing in your own conference.  To make the tournament consistently we need to be about 3-5th in the conference.

I was naming the most memorable player from each class so the reader knew which class I was talking about.

Ok, gotcha.

[Youngsta71701]

It's the 2018 class, which means nothing being ranked No.1 two years out. Most programs don't look to sign two years out. In two years after the dust settles, let's see if that is even a top 15-20 class. I am thinking it's not likely it will be.

With four 4 star players it will most definitely be a top 20 class. Maybe a top 10.

[Youngsta71701]

We weren't built.  We had Portis and a very manageable schedule for a high win total season.  When something is built, it is sustainable.

Doesn't matter who we had and what kind of schedule we had. We won. You can't change the SEC schedule as much as some would like to. You can only control the nonconference schedule to a certain extent. We've had one season since pretty much all the key contributors off that team left for the draft, transferred, or graduated. How about we sit back and let this season play out.

[Youngsta71701]

Yes he should. We fired Heath and Pelphrey for similar results. Why give Anderson any different treatment.

The results aren't even remotely similar. Unless of course you want to go the convenient for your argument way, the tourney. Don't forget we got robbed on one. I'm so tired of this false and construed point of view. Look at the records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Heath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pelphrey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Anderson_(basketball)

[Dominicanhog]

The results aren't even remotely similar. Unless of course you want to go the convenient for your argument way, the tourney. Don't forget we got robbed on one. I'm so tired of this false and construed point of view. Look at the records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Heath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pelphrey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Anderson_(basketball)

please no facts.. it messes with their narrative..