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Who do you think is better?

Started by swinemaster, January 03, 2017, 02:14:55 pm

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swinemaster

When the usual flames begin to burn and the pitchforks begin to come out, a very common question asked by the people trying to rationalize the "darn state" of the program is.................."Who do you think we could hire that's better?"

Well, I usually digress to that question because I'm not in the business of hiring Power 5 football coaches.  But I'm going to take a stab at it now that I for once might be one of the pitchfork carriers.

1.  Steve Sarkisian(OC Alabama) - Don't laugh.  I am well aware of the personal issues that he had while at USC.  Saban has seen through that and hired him.  He can flat out coach.  He was responsible for most of what you saw in the Rose Bowl last night.  He also was responsible for a TON of the success during the USC dynasty era.  He recruited most of the talent at Washington that made the playoffs this year.  Saban knows this.  Good enough for Nick.  Good enough for me.

2.  Tee Martin(OC USC) -  I feel like trying an up and comer for a change!  This guy is Hot as a pistol.  He is killing it at USC as an OC.  He has a tremendous reputation in SEC circles.  He's young, energetic, and an amazing recruiter.  We are just the type of program that needs to roll the dice and give a guy like this a chance.  Love the fact that he's got exposure to the west coast with SEC roots.  Could be a lethal recruiting combination.

3.  Lincoln Riley(OC Oklahoma) - Hottest Asst. in the country.  Texas ties, Texas ties, Texas ties.  Offensive creativity through the roof.  Would be a very exciting hire. 

So, I'm not saying that we are going to replace CBB anytime soon.  But if you're waving the pitchfork and you get that stupid ass question "Who you gonna hire?", hopefully these options will provide you with some answers.

Hey Jeff Long!  Give me a call!  Let's work this thing out! :razorback:

Trystran

Scratch Sark. JL wouldn't hire him with his history.

 

bennyl08

1. Sarkisian is a terrible choice for a HC. You want to talk about doing less with more, he makes Les, Brown, and Richt feel pretty well accomplished. Sark had 5 first round draft picks and wasn't even a threat to win his division much less anything else. When he was HC at USC, he somehow managed to still underachieve even with the sanctions. May in a support role like OC where his duties are limited in scope (relative to the HC), he can do fine. We will see. As a HC, no thank you.

2/3. Up an comers rarely work out. When they do, it's great. However, odds are, you'll burn through 5 up and coming coaches before you find one worth keeping. That's at least 15 years of waiting plus the damage that comes from 15 years of waiting, plus the damage that comes from finding a coach willing to work for you after going through 5 coaches in 15 years.

Will Muschamp was an absolute, can't-miss up and comer when he was hired by Florida. Some people are very good coordinators but can't be a head coach to save their lives.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

Sed76

Too bad there isn't a up and comer who is from Arkansas, understands the culture and would consider it his dream job.

Trystran

In an interview recently, Miles said he has had time to reevaluate things, and would do the offensive side of the ball completely different. At this point, I would gamble on him to have his defense and recruiting, and hope to hell that he sticks to his word on changing the offensive approach. Not a lot of coaches on the market with his resume, and a prime issue with Arkansas is recruiting.

311Hog

January 03, 2017, 02:32:58 pm #5 Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 02:51:28 pm by 311Hog
Quote from: Sed76 on January 03, 2017, 02:29:56 pm
Too bad there isn't a up and comer who is from Arkansas, understands the culture and would consider it his dream job.

Just like with players AR can only count/hope/pray that the state produces a miracle otherwise we just settle with what ever we get.

I do like the Tee Martin suggestion though.  I think we need to lean into the idea of outscoring teams because it does not seem like we get enough talent to be anything but avg. at best on the defensive side of the ball.

Trystran

Quote from: bennyl08 on January 03, 2017, 02:28:09 pm
1. Sarkisian is a terrible choice for a HC. You want to talk about doing less with more, he makes Les, Brown, and Richt feel pretty well accomplished. Sark had 5 first round draft picks and wasn't even a threat to win his division much less anything else. When he was HC at USC, he somehow managed to still underachieve even with the sanctions. May in a support role like OC where his duties are limited in scope (relative to the HC), he can do fine. We will see. As a HC, no thank you.

2/3. Up an comers rarely work out. When they do, it's great. However, odds are, you'll burn through 5 up and coming coaches before you find one worth keeping. That's at least 15 years of waiting plus the damage that comes from 15 years of waiting, plus the damage that comes from finding a coach willing to work for you after going through 5 coaches in 15 years.

Will Muschamp was an absolute, can't-miss up and comer when he was hired by Florida. Some people are very good coordinators but can't be a head coach to save their lives.

I think Muschamp will be a damn good coach now that he has let go of his hold on the offense. Defensive coaches make that mistake a lot. Don't try to take on what you aren't known for. Vandy started getting better when Mason made the choice to go back to his roots on the defense. Like I said... if Les Miles does that, where ever he goes will be dangerous.

phadedhawg

Interesting suggestions.  I live in Seattle and the Sark era was a disaster in many ways.  I wouldn't want him near our program. 

I don't really care who the coach is at this point.  Hopefully Brett wins next year and we can all be happy.  If not, fire him and let us at least enjoy the beginning of a new honeymoon period.

Trystran

I will float one name out there that I know will get me chastised, but I don't care. I think if he had a top tier DC and good recruiting assistants around him... he could be something special. Kliff Kingsbury. His offense lit up everyone when he was OC at A&M... and they won before their defense was worth a crap. Give him the money and resources and see what he can come up with. Plus... he doesn't like CBB either, so the culture is already a fit. Lol

GuvHog

As I posted in another thread:
Brent Venables who is the DC at Clemson. I believe he'd do a great job.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Trystran

I think Venables or CBB will take over for Snyder. Venables alma mater.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 02:48:25 pm
I will float one name out there that I know will get me chastised, but I don't care. I think if he had a top tier DC and good recruiting assistants around him... he could be something special. Kliff Kingsbury. His offense lit up everyone when he was OC at A&M... and they won before their defense was worth a crap. Give him the money and resources and see what he can come up with. Plus... he doesn't like CBB either, so the culture is already a fit. Lol

No

GuvHog

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 03:03:49 pm
I think Venables or CBB will take over for Snyder. Venables alma mater.

That's exactly why Jeff Long needs to move fast in terminating CBB and hiring Venables.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

 

Trystran

Quote from: RazorPiggie on January 03, 2017, 03:04:39 pm
No

He has more wins against Bama than anyone we have had in over a decade.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 03:08:49 pm
He has more wins against Bama than anyone we have had in over a decade.

Wasn't aware that TTU has played Bama recently.

bennyl08

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 02:33:37 pm
I think Muschamp will be a damn good coach now that he has let go of his hold on the offense. Defensive coaches make that mistake a lot. Don't try to take on what you aren't known for. Vandy started getting better when Mason made the choice to go back to his roots on the defense. Like I said... if Les Miles does that, where ever he goes will be dangerous.

Don't follow Florida too closely, but what evidence there that he tried to control the offense and didn't let the OC do the majority of the work? Sounds a lot like an excuse to me.

As for Miles, look at his time at Okie St. He wasn't lighting it up there. Urban Meyer was a beast of a HC no matter what school he was at. Les came into Florida after Saban built it up, and managed to keep it at an above average level. Miles hasn't ever built anything in his career.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

BigE_23

PJ Fleck...can't believe more on here haven't caught on to him yet.

Dwight_K_Shrute

Meh.  The team that just beat us and won 10 games after going 7-6 the two years before he arrived hired an established G5 coach.  By established I mean there 4 years, enough time to get his players and build a program.  Georgia hired a coordinator and went backward.  Smart may eventually more than Richt but point is there are plenty of good HC's at G5's where you don't have to settle for a totally unproven commodity.  It's a mute point right now anyway.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

Wildhog

Quote from: Dwight_K_Shrute on January 03, 2017, 03:46:51 pm
Meh.  The team that just beat us and won 10 games after going 7-6 the two years before he arrived hired an established G5 coach.  By established I mean there 4 years, enough time to get his players and build a program.  Georgia hired a coordinator and went backward.  Smart may eventually more than Richt but point is there are plenty of good HC's at G5's where you don't have to settle for a totally unproven commodity.  It's a mute point right now anyway.

Agreed.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

BigE_23

Quote from: Dwight_K_Shrute on January 03, 2017, 03:46:51 pm
Meh.  The team that just beat us and won 10 games after going 7-6 the two years before he arrived hired an established G5 coach.  By established I mean there 4 years, enough time to get his players and build a program.  Georgia hired a coordinator and went backward.  Smart may eventually more than Richt but point is there are plenty of good HC's at G5's where you don't have to settle for a totally unproven commodity.  It's a mute point right now anyway.
Willie Taggart & Mike Macintyre both fit this description in 2012...we went for a "splash". God knows Bert would make a splash...just not the right kind.

We don't have to settle for a coordinator. We need a HUNGRY up-and-comer proven recruiter who can motivate and build a program - LIKE PJ FLECK

swinemaster

I was only naming a few suggestions.  I would love to hear others as well.  But when you shoot my suggestions down, take a moment to realize what is at risk here.  Do you continue 30 years of mediocrity?  Or do you finally realize that we are Arkansas.  We must "Roll the Dice".  We caught Lightning in a bottle with Petrino.  But I don't see that happening again.

Someone mentioned that the program would be "set back" 15 years by an up and comer.  My question is "Set back from what?".   

Any Assistant coach hire is a risk.  But it also looks like hiring a "proven" power 5 coach that has won championships isn't a sure thing either.   ;)

Trystran

Quote from: RazorPiggie on January 03, 2017, 03:24:42 pm
Wasn't aware that TTU has played Bama recently.

You know what I mean. Name a coach, coorsinator, or assistant we have had in a decade that can say the same.

Trystran

Quote from: bennyl08 on January 03, 2017, 03:40:14 pm
Don't follow Florida too closely, but what evidence there that he tried to control the offense and didn't let the OC do the majority of the work? Sounds a lot like an excuse to me.

As for Miles, look at his time at Okie St. He wasn't lighting it up there. Urban Meyer was a beast of a HC no matter what school he was at. Les came into Florida after Saban built it up, and managed to keep it at an above average level. Miles hasn't ever built anything in his career.

The year he was fired he announced he was giving up on the playcalling stuff (giving full control to OC). As for Les... CBB never built anything. Les was there long enough to show he can hold his own.

LZH

Sark? Wth?

I stay more sober than he does.

 

Trystran

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 03:58:37 pm
Sark? Wth?

I stay more sober than he does.

I wonder if Bama assigns an assistant to hold his beer on the sideline instead of the one to keep him from getting on the field.

LZH

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 04:02:27 pm
I wonder if Bama assigns an assistant to hold his beer on the sideline instead of the one to keep him from getting on the field.

Ha! You know damn well Alabama has had to go from 60 "consultants" to 75 just to keep tabs on his ass.

hogcard1964

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 02:48:25 pm
I will float one name out there that I know will get me chastised, but I don't care. I think if he had a top tier DC and good recruiting assistants around him... he could be something special. Kliff Kingsbury. His offense lit up everyone when he was OC at A&M... and they won before their defense was worth a crap. Give him the money and resources and see what he can come up with. Plus... he doesn't like CBB either, so the culture is already a fit. Lol

I agree but Texas Tech to Arkansas is a lateral move now.  He's probably better off where he's at.

26.2Hog

Quote from: hogcard1964 on January 03, 2017, 04:10:24 pm
I agree but Texas Tech to Arkansas is a lateral move now.  He's probably better off where he's at.

After just going 5-7, Kingsbury has  had 2 losing seasons out of his 4 years there.  His butt is getting warm, and unless he makes big improvement next year, he won't have the option for a lateral move, much less an upgrade.  That needed improvement is going to be difficult since Mahomes declared for the draft.

hog of steele

So how long does Dowell Loggains have to be out there before we try to bring him in? What do you have to do in the NFL before you get to coach college?

Dwight_K_Shrute

Quote from: BigE_23 on January 03, 2017, 03:51:14 pm
Willie Taggart & Mike Macintyre both fit this description in 2012...we went for a "splash". God knows Bert would make a splash...just not the right kind.

We don't have to settle for a coordinator. We need a HUNGRY up-and-comer proven recruiter who can motivate and build a program - LIKE PJ FLECK

Exactly, they have had enough success to show they can do it but are still hungry.  Hell Taggert did it twice.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

Ironhawg

Quote from: swinemaster on January 03, 2017, 02:14:55 pm
When the usual flames begin to burn and the pitchforks begin to come out, a very common question asked by the people trying to rationalize the "darn state" of the program is.................."Who do you think we could hire that's better?"

Well, I usually digress to that question because I'm not in the business of hiring Power 5 football coaches.  But I'm going to take a stab at it now that I for once might be one of the pitchfork carriers.

1.  Steve Sarkisian(OC Alabama) - Don't laugh.  I am well aware of the personal issues that he had while at USC.  Saban has seen through that and hired him.  He can flat out coach.  He was responsible for most of what you saw in the Rose Bowl last night.  He also was responsible for a TON of the success during the USC dynasty era.  He recruited most of the talent at Washington that made the playoffs this year.  Saban knows this.  Good enough for Nick.  Good enough for me.

2.  Tee Martin(OC USC) -  I feel like trying an up and comer for a change!  This guy is Hot as a pistol.  He is killing it at USC as an OC.  He has a tremendous reputation in SEC circles.  He's young, energetic, and an amazing recruiter.  We are just the type of program that needs to roll the dice and give a guy like this a chance.  Love the fact that he's got exposure to the west coast with SEC roots.  Could be a lethal recruiting combination.

3.  Lincoln Riley(OC Oklahoma) - Hottest Asst. in the country.  Texas ties, Texas ties, Texas ties.  Offensive creativity through the roof.  Would be a very exciting hire. 

So, I'm not saying that we are going to replace CBB anytime soon.  But if you're waving the pitchfork and you get that stupid ass question "Who you gonna hire?", hopefully these options will provide you with some answers.

Hey Jeff Long!  Give me a call!  Let's work this thing out! :razorback:


Think Tee Martin is waiting on Tennessee to give Butch his walking papers?

ChicoHog

Quote from: bennyl08 on January 03, 2017, 02:28:09 pm
1. Sarkisian is a terrible choice for a HC. You want to talk about doing less with more, he makes Les, Brown, and Richt feel pretty well accomplished. Sark had 5 first round draft picks and wasn't even a threat to win his division much less anything else. When he was HC at USC, he somehow managed to still underachieve even with the sanctions. May in a support role like OC where his duties are limited in scope (relative to the HC), he can do fine. We will see. As a HC, no thank you.

2/3. Up an comers rarely work out. When they do, it's great. However, odds are, you'll burn through 5 up and coming coaches before you find one worth keeping. That's at least 15 years of waiting plus the damage that comes from 15 years of waiting, plus the damage that comes from finding a coach willing to work for you after going through 5 coaches in 15 years.

Will Muschamp was an absolute, can't-miss up and comer when he was hired by Florida. Some people are very good coordinators but can't be a head coach to save their lives.
Sark is a great recruiter and Peterson is taking many of his players and having good success with them.  Sark also has not proven to take those highly rated recruits and do anything much with them.  I wouldn't touch the guy with a ten foot pole right now as a HC. 

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: bennyl08 on January 03, 2017, 02:28:09 pm
1. Sarkisian is a terrible choice for a HC. You want to talk about doing less with more, he makes Les, Brown, and Richt feel pretty well accomplished. Sark had 5 first round draft picks and wasn't even a threat to win his division much less anything else. When he was HC at USC, he somehow managed to still underachieve even with the sanctions. May in a support role like OC where his duties are limited in scope (relative to the HC), he can do fine. We will see. As a HC, no thank you.

2/3. Up an comers rarely work out. When they do, it's great. However, odds are, you'll burn through 5 up and coming coaches before you find one worth keeping. That's at least 15 years of waiting plus the damage that comes from 15 years of waiting, plus the damage that comes from finding a coach willing to work for you after going through 5 coaches in 15 years.

Will Muschamp was an absolute, can't-miss up and comer when he was hired by Florida. Some people are very good coordinators but can't be a head coach to save their lives.

Sarkisian is alot like we have right now.

PRJ

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Trystran on January 03, 2017, 02:48:25 pm
I will float one name out there that I know will get me chastised, but I don't care. I think if he had a top tier DC and good recruiting assistants around him... he could be something special. Kliff Kingsbury. His offense lit up everyone when he was OC at A&M... and they won before their defense was worth a crap. Give him the money and resources and see what he can come up with. Plus... he doesn't like CBB either, so the culture is already a fit. Lol

Don't want a girly coach.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

hogcard1964

I always wanted us to go after Skip Holtz.  I always liked his style.

hawganatic

Quote from: swinemaster on January 03, 2017, 02:14:55 pm

2.  Tee Martin(OC USC) -  I feel like trying an up and comer for a change! 

3.  Lincoln Riley(OC Oklahoma) - Hottest Asst. in the country.  Texas ties, Texas ties, Texas ties.  Offensive creativity through the roof.  Would be a very exciting hire. 



Do you really think Arkansas fans have the patience to give an up and comer a legit chance at succeeding?  Especially two really young ones like Martin and Riley? 

Somebody learning to be a head coach for the first time you are going to have to give them 2-3 years longer than an experienced coach, just because its on the job training on how to run a program.  Arkansas fans would want them out after year 3, at the latest.

Best course of action would be find somebody who has been running a smaller program for a few years, had success, made a name for themselves, and are READY to step into a major P5 program.

hawganatic

Quote from: hogcard1964 on January 04, 2017, 08:15:17 am
I always wanted us to go after Skip Holtz.  I always liked his style.

Really surprised Holtz hasn't gotten a shot at a major program yet.  Think he'd be a great hire.

26.2Hog

Quote from: hogcard1964 on January 04, 2017, 08:15:17 am
I always wanted us to go after Skip Holtz.  I always liked his style.

Quote from: hawganatic on January 04, 2017, 08:29:21 am
Really surprised Holtz hasn't gotten a shot at a major program yet.  Think he'd be a great hire.

Agree. Holtz is a very good coach.

12247

Montgomery, the HC at Tulsa, Skip Holtz--Brent Venables, DC at Clemson or Riley the OC at Oklahoma

These Guys have fire in their bellies, smarts in their heads and egos that appear to be in check but still available, seem to know when to keep their mouths shut.

bob slydell

Quote from: Dwight_K_Shrute on January 03, 2017, 03:46:51 pm
Meh.  The team that just beat us and won 10 games after going 7-6 the two years before he arrived hired an established G5 coach.  By established I mean there 4 years, enough time to get his players and build a program.  Georgia hired a coordinator and went backward.  Smart may eventually more than Richt but point is there are plenty of good HC's at G5's where you don't have to settle for a totally unproven commodity.  It's a mute point right now anyway.

It seems like P5 schools miss on a lot of G5 coaches as well. Remember that John L. Smith fell into this category at one point.
*this is not a criticism of moderatin.