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25-26 Record

Started by moses_007, January 02, 2017, 12:24:24 am

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Atlhogfan1

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 09:59:52 pm
By throwing out his worse season is an effort to prop him up. He was the coach, there were winnable games that season that he did his usual bang up job of finding ways to lose. He owns that season it is his.

It would be useless to try and prop up. It is not happening.  The first season record is not what our program or Bret are.  Afraid the recent ones are too close when it comes to Bret.
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Hogs958

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 10:03:59 pm
I would argue that Petrinos first team was just as devoid of proven talent.  Your are right though HE couldn't do any better,  it's his nature to give games away that are winnable.

Petrinos 1st season argument is fair.

Maybe...hopefully we can get to a day where we don't have coaches leaving and the team is in shambles. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

rude1

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 02, 2017, 10:04:56 pm
It would be useless to try and prop up. It is not happening.  The first season record is not what our program or Bret are.  Afraid the recent ones are too close when it comes to Bret.
This is where you are wrong, go back and look at that first season and that is your first glimpse of a coach who lost games that were right on the table to be won, something that we continue to see today, but you want to forgive him for it in year one, even though it's still happening now!!!

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 10:07:38 pm
This is where you are wrong, go back and look at that first season and that is your first glimpse of a coach who lost games that were right on the table to be won, something that we continue to see today, but you want to forgive him for it in year one, even though it's still happening now!!!

I haven't used the word forgive.  Not forgiving anything.  This is where you are wrong. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

hawgon

In the last sixty years exactly one coach has left Arkansas who wasn't fired or retired.

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 02, 2017, 10:04:56 pm
It would be useless to try and prop up. It is not happening.  The first season record is not what our program or Bret are.  Afraid the recent ones are too close when it comes to Bret.

Actually it still is who we are.  We gave first half leads and 4th quarter leads in his first season just like we gave up first half leads this year.  Just like we gave up leads in the second half against a few teams every single year he has been here. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: hog of steele on January 02, 2017, 08:24:49 am
All except Missouri would still have winning records. Because we didn't lose to cupcakes. We lost to good teams.

I am just fine with CBB's overall record because I understand how we got there. I understand that the first season was a total disaster and was always going to be that way. I have seen him change and adapt as a coach and I expect him to continue doing it.

We may fire CBB in 2 years but that won't be based on his current record. He has 2 years to figure it out. Other great coaches have been in similar situations and gotten it done. So there is reason to hope.


How exactly have you seen him adapt and change? How exactly has he changed the defense? How exactly has he adapted to SEC speed? Specifically, how has he recruited SEC speed for us? How exactly has he changed and adapted to that first brain numbing loss he choked up against Rutgers his first year here?

Thanks,

PRJ

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 02, 2017, 11:56:45 am
Another jackass thread holding season 1 against him.   

What has happened the last two seasons has not been good enough. 

Season one...blows a 17 point lead at the half. Year 4...blows a 17 and 24 point lead at half..also suffers a 53 point punishment.

So tell me? Jack ass thread eh? Spewing more falsehoods because better days are upon us right?

Momma put my badge in the ground...

PRJ

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: hog of steele on January 02, 2017, 12:28:25 pm
Good. I don't want him to change. I just want him to continue on the improving path he has already put us on.

Improvement?

Long has sent forth his Army today.

PRJ

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: hog of steele on January 02, 2017, 12:53:34 pm
It's loud. Not really an argument. It's like sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting one fact while ignoring the nuance around the fact or any other facts that might not agree with you. And yes, the last two games were terrible. In fact, all of our losses this year seem terrible.

But that isn't the entire story of our team. As much as some would like it to be. And lets be really honest, if we had won the last two games, most of the fire CBB crowd would still be worked up and want him fired. They would just be posting that 27-24 is not good enough.

You are insane. If we had won 9 games, there would be little crying.

Nuance? Year one, blows leads. Year 4, blows leads plus a 53 point blow out...with 9 returning starters on the D.

But improvement right?

PRJ

Hog1952

Quote from: al_pigcino on January 02, 2017, 07:35:53 am
ATM - 8 wins
Bama - 14 wins and counting
Auburn - 8 wins and counting
LSU - 8 wins
Missouri - 4 wins
VA Tech - 10 wins

So we got beat by one team that had less wins than us.  I'd say the team performed around what everyone expected.  Hardly time for a change.  If CBB is gone who do we bring in?  Do you think throwing a new coach in when this one hasn't fully had his players go through his system is the best time to replace?  Rebuilding at Arkansas takes at least 1 year longer than at other SEC schools.  Do you want us set back even further? lol
Good point...shows that everyone is winning but us!

hog of steele

Quote from: Hog1952 on January 02, 2017, 10:39:58 pm
Good point...shows that everyone is winning but us!

I suppose it's easy to forget. But we have 7 wins this year.

moses_007

Well, in my lifetime, no coach with 4 or more seasons has a worse record than Bielema.  This is a fact.  If his record pleases Jeff Long, I would say Mr. Long has a mental problem of some sort.

 

al_pigcino

No coach has ever had to follow the poor recruiting of Nutt, CBP, and a season with Smith either.  Tough to be based off a program when you literally have to build it from the ground up. 

Biggus Piggus

Quote from: al_pigcino on January 03, 2017, 12:18:39 pm
No coach has ever had to follow the poor recruiting of Nutt, CBP, and a season with Smith either.  Tough to be based off a program when you literally have to build it from the ground up. 

The 25-26 statistic is meaningless.

This year's 7-6 isn't.
[CENSORED]!

wachhog

Quote from: Tick Hog on January 02, 2017, 03:05:14 am
I too think he's safe for at least 2 more from the contract alone. However the media is starting to ramp up a bit so the pressure will start to be on. I've lost hope in what he's selling but hope for better things to come. Without being directly involved in the day to day happenings it's just impossible to know the fix. I think he's a good CEO and has good assistants. Problem is more times than not he's matched with equal to or better coaching plus superior talent. For me as of now it is what it is. I think I've come to the conclusion for us to win big we're going to have to be able to flat out coach and out motivate the the superior talent. Even if after 2 years he's fired I have absolutely no faith that JL would be able to make that type of hire.
You think he's a good CEO?  If the Hogs were a publicly traded stock, would you have  them on your Conviction Buy list?

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: HiggiePiggy on January 02, 2017, 09:47:41 pm
Every season is his.  No coach here has ever gone 0-8. His first year he decided to do a fake punt against Mississippi State that ended up them getting the ball back and scoring before half time.  He has been doing stupid things for awhile that have cost games. 
Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 09:55:49 pm
You don't want to hold that season against him because it was awful. If it wasn't you would be more than glad to add it. I don't know whether you just want to go against the grain or you have some vested interest in trying to make Bret better than what he is, whatever it is, it is only reflecting poorly on you with the ridiculous stuff you have to throw out there to prop him up.
Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 09:59:52 pm
By throwing out his worse season is an effort to prop him up. He was the coach, there were winnable games that season that he did his usual bang up job of finding ways to lose. He owns that season it is his.
Quote from: Biggus Piggus on January 03, 2017, 12:23:12 pm
The 25-26 statistic is meaningless.

This year's 7-6 isn't.

Dangit Biggus.  Stop trying to prop him up. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

wachhog

Quote from: Calling All Hogs on January 02, 2017, 12:16:17 pm
I am not happy with Bielema. But I don't want a coaching change until Jeff Long is gone and we hire and AD that is committed to winning.
This. ^^^ I cannot forget that Long wanted Bowden and Grobe.

moses_007

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on January 03, 2017, 12:23:12 pm
The 25-26 statistic is meaningless.

This year's 7-6 isn't.
Why would you say his overall record is meaningless?  It's a reflection of his entire body of work since he's been here.  Maybe his 10-22 record in the SEC has more meaning?

wachhog

Quote from: Pig In The City on January 02, 2017, 10:06:08 am
Let's hope the Iowa job becomes available. I've seen all I need to see.
Why does anybody think Iowa would hire him?

al_pigcino

2016 Arkansas Razorbacks

2016 Prediction: 7-5
2016 SEC Prediction: 3-5
Sept. 3 Louisiana Tech WIN
Sept. 10 at TCU WIN
Sept. 17 Texas State WIN
Sept. 24 Tex A&M (in Arlington) WIN
Oct. 1 Alcorn St (in Little Rock) WIN
Oct. 8 Alabama Loss
Oct. 15 Ole Miss Loss
Oct. 22 at Auburn Loss
Oct. 29 OPEN DATE
Nov. 5 Florida WIN
Nov. 12 LSU Loss
Nov. 19 at Miss State WIN
Nov. 26 at Missouri  Loss

http://collegefootballnews.com/2016/sec-football-schedules-predictions

First preseason prediction on Google.  I'd say we were right on the mark.  What makes this season such a failure?  Getting beat by a top 25 VT school?  Getting beat by the Sugar Bowl bound Auburn team?  The one loss to a team that had a better record than us? lol

moses_007

Quote from: wachhog on January 03, 2017, 12:31:53 pm
Why does anybody think Iowa would hire him?
Maybe because he beat Florida, and Ferenz couldn't.

LZH

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 09:47:59 pm
This makes absolutely no sense. You start throwing out losses and excusing them, hell every coach is undefeated. You can rationalize away every loss if you so desire.

^^^^

I have yet to understand how a grown man can rationalize this. If we threw out his first year, then why blame John L Smith for his crappy year? Why not throw out Bobby Petrino's first year? Or HDN's? Or Kenny Hatfield's, or Lou Holtz?

I've got it, let's just make this darn up as we go along. God forbid we hurt someone's feelings that is in love with Bret Bielema.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 12:41:08 pm
^^^^

I have yet to understand how a grown man can rationalize this. If we threw out his first year, then why blame John L Smith for his crappy year? Why not throw out Bobby Petrino's first year? Or HDN's? Or Kenny Hatfield's, or Lou Holtz?

I've got it, let's just make this darn up as we go along. God forbid we hurt someone's feelings that is in love with Bret Bielema.

Well since you brought it up.  Was 2008 indicative of Petrino? 1998 of Nutt?  Our most balanced and complete team we would see under Nutt.  Holtz at Arkansas?  He didn't exactly maintain something close to it. 

I've yet to understand how you don't view things in context ie first season for coaches.  Larry Coker should be in the HOF.  Terry Bowden too. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

 

wachhog

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2017, 09:42:01 pm
Don't hold your breath. He is what you have seen, he hasn't been holding anything back. This is who and what he is.
Agree. Doesn't anybody wonder why he (apparently) wanted to leave Wisconsin? Like maybe he was head each in name only. Or maybe Barry encouraged him to go somewhere and be his own man? 

LZH

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 03, 2017, 12:46:19 pm
Well since you brought it up.  Was 2008 indicative of Petrino? 1998 of Nutt?  Our most balanced and complete team we would see under Nutt.  Holtz at Arkansas?  He didn't exactly maintain something close to it. 

I've yet to understand how you don't view things in context ie first season for coaches.  Larry Coker should be in the HOF.  Terry Bowden too. 

Their record still counts regardless of how many games they win. If you're going to cherry-pick then knock yourself out, but it is bull.

IndianaHog

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 12:41:08 pm
^^^^

I have yet to understand how a grown man can rationalize this. If we threw out his first year, then why blame John L Smith for his crappy year? Why not throw out Bobby Petrino's first year? Or HDN's? Or Kenny Hatfield's, or Lou Holtz?

I've got it, let's just make this darn up as we go along. God forbid we hurt someone's feelings that is in love with Bret Bielema.


Yea I don't get this line of thinking either lol you can't throw somebody record out because you don't like the outcome

KennyForAD

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 12:49:57 pm
Their record still counts regardless of how many games they win. If you're going to cherry-pick then knock yourself out, but it is bull.

..

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: IndianaHog on January 03, 2017, 12:52:12 pm

Yea I don't get this line of thinking either lol you can't throw somebody record out because you don't like the outcome

Crean's 6-25 was what the IU basketball program was going to be under him. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Uncle Remus

QuoteWe now have fans who think 7-6, 8-5, and 7-6 is as good as it gets for Razorback football.  Sad.

I'm 34 years old, and in my 34 years, we have averaged 7.23 wins per year.  Obviously we have had some better years, but this is our average in my lifetime.  Kinda sucks!

LZH

Quote from: IndianaHog on January 03, 2017, 12:52:12 pm

Yea I don't get this line of thinking either lol you can't throw somebody record out because you don't like the outcome

We were fairly competitive in several games his first year. Frankly, one might could argue that his first year was one of his better coaching jobs. I have never argued that he had much talent to work with. Of course those first 18 months or so his mouth got on my nerves. It is what he has done since (or not done) that really disappoints me.

But that still doesn't mean that 3-9 doesn't count.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 12:57:46 pm
We were fairly competitive in several games his first year. Frankly, one might could argue that his first year was one of his better coaching jobs. I have never argued that he had much talent to work with. Of course those first 18 months or so his mouth got on my nerves. It is what he has done since (or not done) that really disappoints me.

Then why worry so much about the record?
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

LZH

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 03, 2017, 12:59:02 pm
Then why worry so much about the record?

Because it happened! That's the point I was making about Houston Nutt. He didn't necessarily set the world on fire with his coaching acumen his first year but he won nine games. They all count.

MushroomCloudHog

How many games did we have leads in the 4th quarter that we lost in those 26 losses?

majp51

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 02, 2017, 09:43:15 pm
It is stupid and lazy to hold the first season record against him so definitively.  Plenty to be critical about. 

Thing is, that first season is actually indicative. CBP and JLS did not leave the cupboard so bare that we would go 0-SEC. Heck even Smiley did better in the SEC. A losing record the first year is totally understandable, but context matters, and it's the way we lost that first season at 3-9 which should have set off alarm bells. Either it meant CBP was a bad recruiter (which doesn't quite jive when you consider that the Best Defenses we have had with CBB were with CBP's recruits) , or something was wrong with CBB's overall coaching philosophy and how it relates to the SEC.

With 4 seasons now under his belt and the highpoint being 8-5 thanks in large part to a miracle finish in Oxford, that should also set off alarm bells.


Atlhogfan1

Quote from: majp51 on January 03, 2017, 01:12:16 pm
but context matters, and it's the way we lost that first season at 3-9 which should have set off alarm bells. Either it meant CBP was a bad recruiter (which doesn't quite jive when you consider that the Best Defenses we have had with CBB were with CBP's recruits) , or something was wrong with CBB's overall coaching philosophy and how it relates to the SEC.

You could have started your post at this point. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: majp51 on January 03, 2017, 01:12:16 pm

With 4 seasons now under his belt and the highpoint being 8-5 thanks in large part to a miracle finish in Oxford, that should also set off alarm bells.

It is. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

hog of steele

Quote from: Hogs958 on January 02, 2017, 09:37:46 pm
I can't see him lasting another 7 win season.

He will survive another 7 win season. He will survive next year if he has 5 wins. Get used to it. He will be here at least two more seasons.

HF#1

James Franklin won 11 SEC games in 3 years at Vandy. Bret has won 10 in 4 years at Arkansas.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

KennyForAD

Quote from: hog of steele on January 03, 2017, 01:16:09 pm
He will survive another 7 win season. He will survive next year if he has 5 wins. Get used to it. He will be here at least two more seasons.

Trust me... We're used to it.

swinemaster

Quote from: HF#1 on January 03, 2017, 01:16:29 pm
James Franklin won 11 SEC games in 3 years at Vandy. Bret has won 10 in 4 years at Arkansas.

Just like any raw statistic, it can be disputed.  Franklin - SEC East.  CBB - SEC West.  But I digress.

I used to throw out the first year.  But now after watching 4 years of CBB, I don't anymore.

I am coming to the realization that CBB didn't have anything to bring to the table in year 1 to make that team any better than any other coach could have.  It appears that he doesn't really have anything to bring to the table in year 4 either.

I've watched his former assistant coaches at Wisconsin have equal or more success as head coaches at other schools and wonder if the combination of great assistants and holding the reigns of Barry Alvarez's program kind of make him a fraud.

I have never been a coach executioner other than HDN.  But I am really moving that way at this point with CBB.

BigSexyHog

Quote from: hog of steele on January 02, 2017, 12:40:28 pm
I don't share your interpretation of the 25-26 record. I actually understand the context in which that record occurred. I am not sure if you know this but shouting 25-26 is not an actual argument.


Wow.  Clueless absolutely clueless
Lebron raised money for kids... Rotnei stole crap from the equipment room

moses_007

Quote from: KennyForAD on January 03, 2017, 01:24:04 pm
Trust me... We're used to it.
We're used to it, all right, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. 

LZH

Quote from: HF#1 on January 03, 2017, 01:16:29 pm
James Franklin won 11 SEC games in 3 years at Vandy. Bret has won 10 in 4 years at Arkansas.

Hey!   >:(

BB plays in the SEC West
BB left Wisconsin as a hero
BB says Woo Pig
BB had his own show
BB has a pretty wife
BB's first year doesn't count!
And blah, blah, ........

James Franklin walked into the perfect situation at Penn State....so there!

moses_007

Quote from: LZH on January 03, 2017, 01:33:59 pm
Hey!   >:(

BB plays in the SEC West
BB left Wisconsin as a hero
BB says Woo Pig
BB had his own show
BB has a pretty wife
BB's first year doesn't count!
And blah, blah, ........

James Franklin walked into the perfect situation at Penn State....so there!
Penn State was close to the death penalty over Jerry Sandusky.  But look at what Franklin has accomplished.  He won the Big 10 and almost won the Rose Bowl. 

I know a number of Hogvillians wanted Long to hire Franklin when Petrino was fired.  I wish we had hired him...........he is one helluva motivator!

hog of steele

Quote from: BigSexyHog on January 03, 2017, 01:28:29 pm

Wow.  Clueless absolutely clueless

Incredulity is also not an argument.

rude1

Quote from: Uncle Remus on January 03, 2017, 12:56:59 pm
I'm 34 years old, and in my 34 years, we have averaged 7.23 wins per year.  Obviously we have had some better years, but this is our average in my lifetime.  Kinda sucks!
Did you throw Bret's 3-9 record out when doing your averages? Because it shouldn't count and it is meaningless! !!

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: moses_007 on January 03, 2017, 01:37:35 pm
Penn State was close to the death penalty over Jerry Sandusky.  But look at what Franklin has accomplished.  He won the Big 10 and almost won the Rose Bowl. 

I know a number of Hogvillians wanted Long to hire Franklin when Petrino was fired.  I wish we had hired him...........he is one helluva motivator!

No they weren't.  Sanctions ended up being reduced. 

Compare Penn St's recruiting to the rest of the B1G.  They do well comparatively even after the Sandusky thing. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

LZH

Quote from: moses_007 on January 03, 2017, 01:37:35 pm
Penn State was close to the death penalty over Jerry Sandusky.  But look at what Franklin has accomplished.  He won the Big 10 and almost won the Rose Bowl. 

I know a number of Hogvillians wanted Long to hire Franklin when Petrino was fired.  I wish we had hired him...........he is one helluva motivator!

With my luck if he was hired here his record and motivation and recruiting skills would go straight down the tubes.

Razorbackers

Quote from: hog of steele on January 02, 2017, 12:53:34 pm
It's loud. Not really an argument. It's like sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting one fact while ignoring the nuance around the fact or any other facts that might not agree with you. And yes, the last two games were terrible. In fact, all of our losses this year seem terrible.

But that isn't the entire story of our team. As much as some would like it to be. And lets be really honest, if we had won the last two games, most of the fire CBB crowd would still be worked up and want him fired. They would just be posting that 27-24 is not good enough.

ding ding ding ding

These folks are going to complain, and will continue to complain, until they die. And then they'll complain in the afterlife as well.

I don't think it's fair to count Bret's first year against his record and just lump it in there like there isn't an asterisk over that season.

Some folks here were NEVER going to give him a chance. They know what is better for the program more than the AD or the coach or God himself. It's a recurring theme here that our AD is ACTIVELY trying to destroy the department. It's INSANITY.