Goodbye one and done (ESPN article) click photo

[hogsanity]

If minor league baseball teams are unprofitable they fold. 

That is sort of true. If the Class A team for the Cards "folds" the Cards just move the players to another town and start playing, they do not get rid of all their Class A players.

The NFL has most certainly decided it is much cheaper to let colleges develop their players.

The NBA can not afford to sit and watch a guy like Lebron play for "free" for 3 years at a college, or even worse see him go to Europe and play for 3 years, when he could be on a NBA team helping sell tickets. The tradeoff, to have immediate or after one year access to a guy like Lebron, they have to open up the path for anyone to enter the draft at the same age. Then of course there are teams willing to take a risk and draft some FR who is likely not ready, just to make sure if he does develop they have him and not someone else.

[bphi11ips]

Two thoughts on your statements:

• Football is a bad comparison, the amount of money and players required to field a football team is far more than that of a basketball team.
  
• Colleges in theory may be able to determine their rules but not if they want to compete. Let's say UA decides to pay their players. Say goodbye to the SEC and the NCAA and the money that comes along with it, then who are you going to play against? The answer, no one.

Wasn't comparing football to basketball. The point is that free market economies dictate the behavior of professional and college sports in the U.S.

[TrueBlue]

This will create even more corruption. The NBA will start approaching kids in High School? Are you kidding me?

Yes, let's have every kid with a little bit of talent start talking to agents and the NBA. That will solve the "scum" part of this business right now... smdh

[hogsanity]

This will create even more corruption. The NBA will start approaching kids in High School? Are you kidding me?

Yes, let's have every kid with a little bit of talent start talking to agents and the NBA. That will solve the "scum" part of this business right now... smdh

Where $ is involved you will never get rid of the corruption.

[Inhogswetrust]

No one says a kid has to play sports.
I was responding to a poster who said to do away with athletic scholarships.
Might as well do away with college sports then.
Not all kids are smart enough for an academic scholarship and not all kids parents can afford to pay for college and support them while they play sports.

And I certainly don't think a college athlete should have to take out student loans to go to school while the school makes millions off them.

The Ivy League does not have athletic scholarships yet they DO play sports. Some of them very well played and very well attended.

[Inhogswetrust]

Not asking to be a jerk, but have you had to put a kid through college? Do you think someone who comes from the background that many college football and basketball players come from could afford to send a kid to school if they only got a 1/4 or maybe a 1/3 of a scholarship/ That is one reason their are so few AA players in college baseball, because players there usually get 1/4 of a scholarship or less and they just can not afford it.

Yes I have put a kid through college. He graduated from the UA with a bachelors degree in Electrical Engineering and minor in Physics. Then he got accepted to MIT and was given a grant by them yet we still had to pay his room and board. You should see how expensive it is to live in Cambridge or Boston. He graduated with a Masters from MIT in Electrical Engineering and is now a VP for a Silicon Valley company that is a subsidiary of a huge Japanese conglomerate.

As far as not having many blacks playing college baseball have you seen how many no longer play at any level even before college age? I also know several black former Razorbacks especially in basketball. Most came from poor backgrounds. Only a couple of them made it big in the pros. Some of them graduated and some didn't. Those that did have really good jobs and those that didn't don't.

[MB Hog]

this is because you are focused on this issue from a purely "sport" side of it.  Develop on the court is what you are totally focused on.

If a kid's only desire is to "develop on the court" than he should pick option A. go straight to the league, work his way up from the G League.

College is not the "minor leagues" of the NBA, NFL, or MLB.
That is the point

One and done's are "cheapening" the college experience for others. Sure the school gets theirs etc. but the fact is these kids are not going to school they are not getting anything for their tuition and the academic reputation is effected for all non athletes.

If a kid has dreams of the NBA and wants to go to school for real than he should pick Option B. to where he can develop himself both on the court and in the classroom and have it be meaningful.

I agree with you.  The current minimum age requirement forces most players to have to go to college for at least a year, so it's hard to argue against their decision to use college as their minor league.  But if they remove the minimum age requirement, high school players are no longer obligated to sign with a college team and play for a year while they get old enough to try the NBA.  If they don't care about their education and just want to put all of their effort into pro basketball... skip the college route and play for pay in the G league right away.  There would be nothing stopping them anymore.  But if they do want an education, commit to the college route and stay at least three years.

Once it becomes clear that players aren't going to college just to fulfill the NBA age requirements, then they don't have an excuse for wasting someone else's scholarship when they didn't really want to go to school in the first place. 

Some may think it's not fair to the players not to get to just up and leave when they are "ready," but it's really not fair to the players who truly wanted to use their skills to pay for an education, but the slot wasn't open because of players taking those slots with no intention of getting a degree.  You've got to ask yourself who the colleges are supposed to be there for... the future NBA players or the future graduates?  What's the mission of the colleges anyway?  Producing NBA players?  Or providing an education for those who want to learn and get a degree?

[MB Hog]

So kids whose only goal in life is to play in the NBA are gonna know what degree to pick and graduate with that degree in 3 years. It takes a lot of kids 3 years in college just to decide what they really want to do. Such a tired, antiquated line of thinking.

They can come back and get that degree any time. Their clock is ticking RIGHT NOW on their body and athleticism. I'm sorry that it's in contract to the days of old where players played 3-4 years in the NCAA for nothing but the NBA pays a lot more now and that is going to be the #1 goal for most college basketball players. That's why you see a lot of basic degrees like Communications or Sports Management.

If their only goal in life is to play in the NBA, and if they eliminate the age limit, then don't waste the college scholarship and just go to the G League.

[MB Hog]

Why is it anyone's job to look out for them and decide what is best for them? Making a kid stay 3 years in college doesn't mean they are going to have something to fall back on, so that is dumb reason to make an incredibly restrictive rule.

I mean, seriously? We're out here making rules to "protect the kids?" Riiiiiiiiiight. You just want players to have to stay in college for 3-4 years. That's it. That's all it is. You damn well pro athletes have been going broke for decades and decades, which means that players that stayed 3-4 years in college went pro and still went broke. How many of them used their degree after playing? How many of them even learned anything? It's all a farce. So why have this phony "looking out of the kids" reasoning?

Let these kids live their lives. If they don't make it play ball, they can go get a student loan like the rest of us. This isn't hard. But only one proposal here blocks kids from making millions for an arbitrary period of time. Surely you guys aren't posting all this with a straight face.

Which kids are you looking out for?  The ones whose only goal is to play in the NBA or the ones who want an education and need that scholarship to be able to afford it.  Sounds to me like you are looking out for the athletes, but not the true students.

[razorback1829]

If their only goal in life is to play in the NBA, and if they eliminate the age limit, then don't waste the college scholarship and just go to the G League.

College basketball is better exposure and a form of big time ball. G League is not comparable, so it's ridiculous that people keep tryna treat them equal.

[ShadowHawg]

College basketball is better exposure and a form of big time ball. G League is not comparable, so it's ridiculous that people keep tryna treat them equal.

The NBA is trying to claim that the G league is BETTER for player development because the players will get NBA level coaching while developing.

[TrueBlue]

The real problem is that the typical NBA player needs more education about how to handle their finances and their life at the very least. 60% go bankrupt after leaving the league.

So after you "blow through" your money, what then? Hard to pay bills when the only thing you can do is say "dude, I had a sick jumpshot a few years back..."

[GuvHog]

The NBA is trying to claim that the G league is BETTER for player development because the players will get NBA level coaching while developing.

Which is a false claim on the part of the NBA. G league coaches will be coaches that couldn't make it as a NBA coach so the players won't get NBA level coaching. College coaching would be closer to NBA level than G league coaching would.

[MB Hog]

College basketball is better exposure and a form of big time ball. G League is not comparable, so it's ridiculous that people keep tryna treat them equal.

True - the marketing and excitement is better for college basketball, which without an age limit for the NBA becomes part of the player's decision.  Do they want improve their "brand" by playing in college rather than just going to the G-League?  If so, then make a longer term commitment to the college for the exposure they provide.

Either way, let's not lose sight of the fact that colleges are not here for the sake of creating NBA players.  Their mission is to educate people and provide a degree to reward students' academic efforts.

College sports certainly benefit financially from athletic success, but that is a byproduct of the real purpose of athletic scholarships... which is to provide another avenue for a paid education.

[hogsanity]

Which is a false claim on the part of the NBA. G league coaches will be coaches that couldn't make it as a NBA coach so the players won't get NBA level coaching. College coaching would be closer to NBA level than G league coaching would.

Really? That is like saying minor league coaching in baseball is not netter than college coaching. The college game is different than the NBA game. These G-League coaches are going to be instructed by the parent club on how they want players coached, what type of sets they want them to run, etc.

[Inhogswetrust]

Which kids are you looking out for?  The ones whose only goal is to play in the NBA or the ones who want an education and need that scholarship to be able to afford it.  Sounds to me like you are looking out for the athletes, but not the true students.

Outstanding point you are making.

[razorback1829]

True - the marketing and excitement is better for college basketball, which without an age limit for the NBA becomes part of the player's decision.  Do they want improve their "brand" by playing in college rather than just going to the G-League?  If so, then make a longer term commitment to the college for the exposure they provide.

Either way, let's not lose sight of the fact that colleges are not here for the sake of creating NBA players.  Their mission is to educate people and provide a degree to reward students' academic efforts.

College sports certainly benefit financially from athletic success, but that is a byproduct of the real purpose of athletic scholarships... which is to provide another avenue for a paid education.

😂😂😂 College is nothing but another form of big business just like the NCAA.. and they want those players who are going to the NBA bc that kind of exposure is priceless.

I know we have a lot of "college is all about getting an education", but let's be real. Colleges are about making BANK. From parking tickets, to increased tuition... It's a business, man.

It's 2018, time to come up with the world.

[k.c.hawg]

College basketball is better exposure and a form of big time ball. G League is not comparable, so it's ridiculous that people keep tryna treat them equal.

A G league team would beat the National Champion by 20 or more. In most cases coaching is better, it's a job, you work long days getting better, not 2.5 hrs 3 days a week.

[99toLife]

A G league team would beat the National Champion by 20 or more. In most cases coaching is better, it's a job, you work long days getting better, not 2.5 hrs 3 days a week.

True, but I think his point was College is better exposure.

[k.c.hawg]

College basketball is better exposure and a form of big time ball. G League is not comparable, so it's ridiculous that people keep tryna treat them equal.

Better exposure. You think the Royals know more about a college player than they know about a NW Arkansas Naturals Player?? You think the San Antonio Spurs will know more about a college player then a player on the Austin Spurs. Or the Bulls with the Windy City Bulls.

Here educate yourself.

There are 26 NBA G League teams for the 2017-18 season, each singly affiliated with an NBA team.

They included: Agua Caliente Clippers (L.A. Clippers), Austin Spurs (San Antonio Spurs), Canton Charge (Cleveland Cavaliers), Delaware 87ers (Philadelphia 76ers), Erie BayHawks (Atlanta Hawks), Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Indiana Pacers), Grand Rapids Drive (Detroit Pistons), Greensboro Swarm (Charlotte Hornets), Iowa Wolves (Minnesota Timberwolves), Lakeland Magic (Orlando Magic), Long Island Nets (Brooklyn Nets), Maine Red Claws (Boston Celtics), Memphis Hustle (Memphis Grizzlies), Northern Arizona Suns (Phoenix Suns), Oklahoma City Blue (Oklahoma City Thunder), Raptors 905 (Toronto Raptors), Reno Bighorns (Sacramento Kings), Rio Grande Valley Vipers (Houston Rockets), Salt Lake City Stars (Utah Jazz), Santa Cruz Warriors (Golden State Warriors), Sioux Falls Skyforce (Miami Heat), South Bay Lakers (Los Angeles Lakers), Texas Legends (Dallas Mavericks), Westchester Knicks (New York Knicks), Windy City Bulls (Chicago Bulls) and Wisconsin Herd (Milwaukee Bucks).

Each teams play a 50-game schedule.

An all-time high 135 players with NBA G League experience were on NBA rosters at the start of the 2016-17 regular season, representing 30 percent of the league.

[k.c.hawg]

True, but I think his point was College is better exposure.

See the post above. If you are in the G League you are playing for an NBA team. How could it be better exposure.....maybe to the public....not to the NBA.

[k.c.hawg]

True, but I think his point was College is better exposure.

See the post above. If you are in the G League you are playing for an NBA team. How could it be better exposure.....maybe to the public....not to the NBA.

The NBA G League, formerly the NBA Development League or NBA D-League, is the NBA's official minor league, preparing players, coaches, officials, trainers and front office staff for the NBA while acting as the league's research and development laboratory.

[99toLife]

See the post above. If you are in the G League you are playing for an NBA team. How could it be better exposure.....maybe to the public....not to the NBA.

The NBA G League, formerly the NBA Development League or NBA D-League, is the NBA's official minor league, preparing players, coaches, officials, trainers and front office staff for the NBA while acting as the league's research and development laboratory.

Got it. my bad.

[razorback1829]

Better exposure. You think the Royals know more about a college player than they know about a NW Arkansas Naturals Player?? You think the San Antonio Spurs will know more about a college player then a player on the Austin Spurs. Or the Bulls with the Windy City Bulls.

Here educate yourself.

There are 26 NBA G League teams for the 2017-18 season, each singly affiliated with an NBA team.

They included: Agua Caliente Clippers (L.A. Clippers), Austin Spurs (San Antonio Spurs), Canton Charge (Cleveland Cavaliers), Delaware 87ers (Philadelphia 76ers), Erie BayHawks (Atlanta Hawks), Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Indiana Pacers), Grand Rapids Drive (Detroit Pistons), Greensboro Swarm (Charlotte Hornets), Iowa Wolves (Minnesota Timberwolves), Lakeland Magic (Orlando Magic), Long Island Nets (Brooklyn Nets), Maine Red Claws (Boston Celtics), Memphis Hustle (Memphis Grizzlies), Northern Arizona Suns (Phoenix Suns), Oklahoma City Blue (Oklahoma City Thunder), Raptors 905 (Toronto Raptors), Reno Bighorns (Sacramento Kings), Rio Grande Valley Vipers (Houston Rockets), Salt Lake City Stars (Utah Jazz), Santa Cruz Warriors (Golden State Warriors), Sioux Falls Skyforce (Miami Heat), South Bay Lakers (Los Angeles Lakers), Texas Legends (Dallas Mavericks), Westchester Knicks (New York Knicks), Windy City Bulls (Chicago Bulls) and Wisconsin Herd (Milwaukee Bucks).

Each teams play a 50-game schedule.

An all-time high 135 players with NBA G League experience were on NBA rosters at the start of the 2016-17 regular season, representing 30 percent of the league.

I'm purely talking from a brand building perspective. It's night and day. College basketball is much better exposure for a 17-18 year old kid coming out of high school who will just be shipped to the G league. You're crazy if you don't think that's the case.

[k.c.hawg]

I'm purely talking from a brand building perspective. It's night and day. College basketball is much better exposure for a 17-18 year old kid coming out of high school who will just be shipped to the G league. You're crazy if you don't think that's the case.

Right? There are no more than 5 players in the NCAA "building a brand". There are about 20 "significant" shoe deals in the NBA, the rest of the guys making small checks and getting gear. You must be talking about 3 or 4 year players that don't go to the NBA and stay in their state to capitalize on their brand like say Pat Bradley or a guy like Bobby Portis that played 2 years and will eventually comeback and own some business interest. Anyone that is building a brand in college has already been targeted by a shoe company in AAU....if they prove marketable with their play it will come to fruition.

[razorback1829]

Right? There are no more than 5 players in the NCAA "building a brand". There are about 20 "significant" shoe deals in the NBA, the rest of the guys making small checks and getting gear. You must be talking about 3 or 4 year players that don't go to the NBA and stay in their state to capitalize on their brand like say Pat Bradley or a guy like Bobby Portis that played 2 years and will eventually comeback and own some business interest. Anyone that is building a brand in college has already been targeted by a shoe company in AAU....if they prove marketable with their play it will come to fruition.

Well essentially we are changing it for 10 kids per year that have the ability to be one and done. I mean, I say just get rid of the restrictions, and let the market decide. People are talking about changing rules for 10 kids!

[MB Hog]

😂😂😂 College is nothing but another form of big business just like the NCAA.. and they want those players who are going to the NBA bc that kind of exposure is priceless.

I know we have a lot of "college is all about getting an education", but let's be real. Colleges are about making BANK. From parking tickets, to increased tuition... It's a business, man.

It's 2018, time to come up with the world.

Not going to argue against the fact colleges are trying to make money, but not the same way that corporations are... or they would go public and sell stock.  Colleges need money to pay professors and administrators, build and maintain facilities, pay insurance, fund academic scholarships, etc.  They are not making profits hand over fist and many lose money.

But once again, let's not lose sight of the fact that we are looking out for the kids... and not just the ones who want to play pro sports someday.  The mission of colleges, believe it or not, is still to provide a quality education for students who actually want an education and a chance for better employment in the long run.  Most people on here are arguing about the athletes and the money.  I'm talking about the students who actually want an education and see an athletic scholarship as their opportunity to get that education paid for.

If the NBA makes it possible for those who don't care about an education to go straight into a minor league program for pay, those athletes should go to the minor league.  But if they think there is more value in playing college sports, they should commit to go to college for at least three years in trade for the value they think it brings them... and get an education at the same time.  Likewise, the colleges should make the commitment to honor the scholarship for the 3 - 5 years the player would be on the team unless the student flunks out, does drugs, gets in legal trouble, etc.

[razorback1829]

Not going to argue against the fact colleges are trying to make money, but not the same way that corporations are... or they would go public and sell stock.  Colleges need money to pay professors and administrators, build and maintain facilities, pay insurance, fund academic scholarships, etc.  They are not making profits hand over fist and many lose money.

But once again, let's not lose sight of the fact that we are looking out for the kids... and not just the ones who want to play pro sports someday.  The mission of colleges, believe it or not, is still to provide a quality education for students who actually want an education and a chance for better employment in the long run.  Most people on here are arguing about the athletes and the money.  I'm talking about the students who actually want an education and see an athletic scholarship as their opportunity to get that education paid for.

If the NBA makes it possible for those who don't care about an education to go straight into a minor league program for pay, those athletes should go to the minor league.  But if they think there is more value in playing college sports, they should commit to go to college for at least three years in trade for the value they think it brings them... and get an education at the same time.  Likewise, the colleges should make the commitment to honor the scholarship for the 3 - 5 years the player would be on the team unless the student flunks out, does drugs, gets in legal trouble, etc.

Is college not big business? That's all I want to know. Not saying that college isn't meant for education, but business is business. And these colleges love making money more than anything. Let's not get it twisted.

[k.c.hawg]

Well essentially we are changing it for 10 kids per year that have the ability to be one and done. I mean, I say just get rid of the restrictions, and let the market decide. People are talking about changing rules for 10 kids!

Exactly, we are in 100% agreement. All I want is the NBA going back to drafting an 18 year old if they think he is ready. That will take care of about 75% of the so called one and done guys that come in strictly set on going September to March. If a guy blows up and he works his way into the first round, so be it. Once teams think they are going to lose out on Andrew Wiggins by waiting for him to do a year in college, they will draft him and pay him at 18. If Gafford isn't draftable out of High School and blows up, he should be able to go.

[MB Hog]

Well essentially we are changing it for 10 kids per year that have the ability to be one and done. I mean, I say just get rid of the restrictions, and let the market decide. People are talking about changing rules for 10 kids!

And those 10 kids are taking scholarships that someone else actually wanted to get an education.  Removing the age limit means those 10 kids can go straight to the pros out of high school, and the G-League allows any other promising basketball player (who doesn't care about a college education) to get paid to spend their time working specifically on basketball.

Also, the uncertainty that comes from not knowing how long you will have a player makes it very tough for the college coaches to build a team and a program that they can count on to be successful from year to year.  If they know they have a player for at least three years, they can recruit accordingly.  But if they have a player (such as Gafford) that they were going to build around only to lose him because of a break-through year, that sets the program back.  Only a handful of programs around the country can lose their top players prematurely and know that they can hand-pick the successors to those players.  Many college coaches have lost their jobs over the years because of these challenges... so it doesn't just affect 10 kids a year.  It affects the trajectory of entire programs.

[MB Hog]

Is college not big business? That's all I want to know. Not saying that college isn't meant for education, but business is business. And these colleges love making money more than anything. Let's not get it twisted.

College sports has been bastardized into big business.  But college is still about education.  You'll have some top college administrators who are highly paid, but it is mostly your athletic director, and several of your coaches making big money.  I don't think you'll find many professors living in mansions.

[MB Hog]

Exactly, we are in 100% agreement. All I want is the NBA going back to drafting an 18 year old if they think he is ready. That will take care of about 75% of the so called one and done guys that come in strictly set on going September to March. If a guy blows up and he works his way into the first round, so be it. Once teams think they are going to lose out on Andrew Wiggins by waiting for him to do a year in college, they will draft him and pay him at 18. If Gafford isn't draftable out of High School and blows up, he should be able to go.

What about the players who don't blow up and decide after one year to move to the minor league after their freshman year?  Will there be a rule against that... or will we see additional attrition of underclassmen leaving for that?  That would be another recruiting nightmare that this scenario would create.  If they don't have a 3-year college commitment, now you not only lose the breakout players... you also lose a lot of bubble players who decide to move the G-League.

[311Hog]

College sports has been bastardized into big business.  But college is still about education.  You'll have some top college administrators who are highly paid, but it is mostly your athletic director, and several of your coaches making big money.  I don't think you'll find many professors living in mansions.

and we are talking about a "small %" of colleges over all fall under this "big business" category.  often these schools break even at best. I am not saying feel sorry for them i am saying that while the money in some aspects is indeed getting crazy, the overwhelming mission of the institution is to educate students provide for the workforce.

You are correct in that the mission of athletic scholarship was to provide a means for kids to get an education and still is.  Folks who are holding a scholly for a year or less are taking a spot away from a kid that only has education on their mind a true student athlete.

Also even without these "top 10 - 20" high school talents the college game will still make money hand over fist.  Because college is about the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

[k.c.hawg]

What about the players who don't blow up and decide after one year to move to the minor league after their freshman year?  Will there be a rule against that... or will we see additional attrition of underclassmen leaving for that?  That would be another recruiting nightmare that this scenario would create.  If they don't have a 3-year college commitment, now you not only lose the breakout players... you also lose a lot of bubble players who decide to move the G-League.

They can do that now. The NBA is never going to put a 21 year old age limit in. If you get rid of the Top 10-20 players, the biggest portion of guys are still going to stay. Was having Bobby Portis for 2 years not worth it? Joe Johnson?? The main problem right now is forcing kids into school that think they don't belong there, don't want to be there and in all actuality shouldn't be there. They already know they are a first rounder barring injury.

[razorback1829]

And those 10 kids are taking scholarships that someone else actually wanted to get an education.  Removing the age limit means those 10 kids can go straight to the pros out of high school, and the G-League allows any other promising basketball player (who doesn't care about a college education) to get paid to spend their time working specifically on basketball.

Also, the uncertainty that comes from not knowing how long you will have a player makes it very tough for the college coaches to build a team and a program that they can count on to be successful from year to year.  If they know they have a player for at least three years, they can recruit accordingly.  But if they have a player (such as Gafford) that they were going to build around only to lose him because of a break-through year, that sets the program back.  Only a handful of programs around the country can lose their top players prematurely and know that they can hand-pick the successors to those players.  Many college coaches have lost their jobs over the years because of these challenges... so it doesn't just affect 10 kids a year.  It affects the trajectory of entire programs.

I don't feel bad for the coaches, and I'm usually do, but they know how to navigate the waters. They get paid to navigate the waters. But what you want to do is essentially Change the rules for 10 kids when in AMERICA, we should be able to rise and fall by our own accord. If a kid makes a mistake and leave or aren't good enough, life says you adjust. That's for every citizen of this country. So you want to put regulations on college kids, no realzing that all you're gonna do is create an even nastier black market. This isn't baseball. Most of these kids are poor when they come to school. If they are good enough to go after their freshmen year, while they were developing, then so be it. But spare this bs about programs and all that. That's not about the kids.

[razorback1829]

College sports has been bastardized into big business.  But college is still about education.  You'll have some top college administrators who are highly paid, but it is mostly your athletic director, and several of your coaches making big money.  I don't think you'll find many professors living in mansions.

That wasn't what I was saying. From tuition, to on campus housing, to meal plans, to student packages, to the millions they make off parking tickets... big business bro.

[bphi11ips]

Do I have these draft rules correct:

Football - no draft eligibility until player is three years out of high school

Baseball - eligible at 16 but not before high school graduation; if player plays in college, ineligible until end of junior year or age 21

Basketball - no eligibility for one year after high school

?

[MB Hog]

I don't feel bad for the coaches, and I'm usually do, but they know how to navigate the waters. They get paid to navigate the waters. But what you want to do is essentially Change the rules for 10 kids when in AMERICA, we should be able to rise and fall by our own accord. If a kid makes a mistake and leave or aren't good enough, life says you adjust. That's for every citizen of this country. So you want to put regulations on college kids, no realzing that all you're gonna do is create an even nastier black market. This isn't baseball. Most of these kids are poor when they come to school. If they are good enough to go after their freshmen year, while they were developing, then so be it. But spare this bs about programs and all that. That's not about the kids.

I'm not saying change the rules for those 10 - 20 kids.  I'm saying change the rules because of all the athletes who aren't those 10 - 20 kids.  Who knows, maybe it will all work itself out by removing the age limits and creating a minor league... maybe eventually those NBA dreamers take themselves out of the college mix. 

But all I'm really saying is college is supposed to be about education first and foremost.  They should be able to make rules that help put the focus of their students on education.

[hogsanity]

Do I have these draft rules correct:

Football - no draft eligibility until player is three years out of high school

Baseball - eligible at 16 but not before high school graduation; if player plays in college, ineligible until end of junior year or age 21

Basketball - no eligibility for one year after high school

?

I think in football it is until there graduating class is 3 years out of HS ( they word it that way to cover for someone graduating early I guess.

Baseball is correct, that's how Bryce Harper got drafted at 16, he left school and got his GED. And why we only had Benny Baseball for 2 years, he turned 21 in time to go after his soph yr.

[311Hog]

Do I have these draft rules correct:

Football - no draft eligibility until player is three years out of high school

Baseball - eligible at 16 but not before high school graduation; if player plays in college, ineligible until end of junior year or age 21

Basketball - no eligibility for one year after high school

?

pretty sure that is spot on.

All these rules came from the Professional organization as well.

[MB Hog]

That wasn't what I was saying. From tuition, to on campus housing, to meal plans, to student packages, to the millions they make off parking tickets... big business bro.

As 311 said, most colleges are NOT rolling in money... and many don't make a profit at all.  It costs a lot of money to run a successful college and most of the money that is collected goes into covering those costs.

[99toLife]

That wasn't what I was saying. From tuition, to on campus housing, to meal plans, to student packages, to the millions they make off parking tickets... big business bro.

Yet there is over a Trillion dollars of College student debt. Colleges have turned into a used car lot of education. We Finance everyone.   

[razorback1829]

As 311 said, most colleges are NOT rolling in money... and many don't make a profit at all.  It costs a lot of money to run a successful college and most of the money that is collected goes into covering those costs.

Which makes making more money even more of a priority.

[311Hog]

Yet there is over a Trillion dollars of College student debt. Colleges have turned into a used car lot of education. We Finance everyone.   

That isn't the colleges fault (unless we are talking Trump University).

our school system is broken badly.  The only real goal of school k-12 is standardized scores on standard tests so you can get into college.  At which point you are basically just dropped to do what you will, and here come the loan people.  Going to college is really the only real option provided.  Go to college, get a terrible fast food job, join the military or do nothing are the options for alot of kids so naturally if all they have to do is sign on the dotted line and get their parent to agree so they "too" can go to college with their friends what choice do you think they will make?

Now they have a degree or part of one, and no job or in most cases the same jobs that were there before they went to college, but now the loan folks come back into play....


Colleges are not innocent, but those figures for tuition etc. are not made up they are backed with financial data of what it costs to run the institution, most of them receive less and less state and other source funding every day because there is a real war on higher ed and on high paying high skill jobs.

Why else invest in a college degree unless you can get a good job with it?

not every one should go to college but just like our country there is a massive gulf between the haves and the have nots.

It is join the "service" industry and a low level employee and hope for the best or go to college and then hope that pans out for you.

[99toLife]

That isn't the colleges fault (unless we are talking Trump University).

our school system is broken badly.  The only real goal of school k-12 is standardized scores on standard tests so you can get into college.  At which point you are basically just dropped to do what you will, and here come the loan people.  Going to college is really the only real option provided.  Go to college, get a terrible fast food job, join the military or do nothing are the options for alot of kids so naturally if all they have to do is sign on the dotted line and get their parent to agree so they "too" can go to college with their friends what choice do you think they will make?

Now they have a degree or part of one, and no job or in most cases the same jobs that were there before they went to college, but now the loan folks come back into play....


Colleges are not innocent, but those figures for tuition etc. are not made up they are backed with financial data of what it costs to run the institution, most of them receive less and less state and other source funding every day because there is a real war on higher ed and on high paying high skill jobs.

Why else invest in a college degree unless you can get a good job with it?

not every one should go to college but just like our country there is a massive gulf between the haves and the have nots.

It is join the "service" industry and a low level employee and hope for the best or go to college and then hope that pans out for you.

I agree, but as you said not everyone should go to college. No one should ever buy the biggest house they qualify for with NO money down.

But Government makes that possible. Just like Student loans.
We are turning the youth into slaves of the lender, bubble will burst at some point.
Of course Bernie wanted to Forgive all that debt.   

[311Hog]

I agree, but as you said not everyone should go to college. No one should ever buy the biggest house they qualify for with NO money down.

But Government makes that possible. Just like Student loans.
We are turning the youth into slaves of the lender, bubble will burst at some point.
Of course Bernie wanted to Forgive all that debt.   

drop in the bucket compared to other things our government does, and this one would free thousands of young people as opposed to making already filthy rich old people richer....

You tell me which is the better idea.

[99toLife]

drop in the bucket compared to other things our government does, and this one would free thousands of young people as opposed to making already filthy rich old people richer....

You tell me which is the better idea.

You seem to dislike successful people that have made money. Why is that?

[hogsanity]

That isn't the colleges fault (unless we are talking Trump University).

our school system is broken badly.  The only real goal of school k-12 is standardized scores on standard tests so you can get into college.  At which point you are basically just dropped to do what you will, and here come the loan people.  Going to college is really the only real option provided.  Go to college, get a terrible fast food job, join the military or do nothing are the options for alot of kids so naturally if all they have to do is sign on the dotted line and get their parent to agree so they "too" can go to college with their friends what choice do you think they will make?

Now they have a degree or part of one, and no job or in most cases the same jobs that were there before they went to college, but now the loan folks come back into play....


Colleges are not innocent, but those figures for tuition etc. are not made up they are backed with financial data of what it costs to run the institution, most of them receive less and less state and other source funding every day because there is a real war on higher ed and on high paying high skill jobs.

Why else invest in a college degree unless you can get a good job with it?

not every one should go to college but just like our country there is a massive gulf between the haves and the have nots.

It is join the "service" industry and a low level employee and hope for the best or go to college and then hope that pans out for you.

It is the fault of the " college for everyone " line of thinking. College is not for everyone, nor is it needed by everyone. You can go to hvac, mechanic, or other trade schools, work while you are in the program, come out debt free and likely with some good job offers.

But people have been duped into thinking the only way to every get any job is to get a bachelors degree ( and shortly it'll be a masters, so they run up 100K or more in debt that they will have to work decade or more to pay back.

[311Hog]

You seem to dislike successful people that have made money. Why is that?

I dislike people that have more than they need and manipulate the system to acquire even more.  Very few of these folks actually made it themselves.

I love how you just skipped right over the point that Bernie is right.  You try to make the greater good a bad thing why is that?

[bphi11ips]

pretty sure that is spot on.

All these rules came from the Professional organization as well.

Right. Professional leagues determine their own draft eligibility rules. Those rules are not driven by paternalistic concerns over the best interest of the athletes but out of the best interests of the league. 

The best interest of college teams is that players stay for the full term of their college eligibility.  They can't force players to stay, but they could require, by contract, that scholarship players who leave early repay the cost of their education, room, board, and other expenses.  Schools would be reluctant to do this unless all schools do it, but that is the only leverage colleges have to discourage early departure.