Common Misconception Conerning MA

[Pork Twain]

For those of us that are unhappy with the state of the Hogs. 

First basketball should never be compared to football or baseball...ever...

I have been watching the Razorbacks since the 80's and have certain expectations.  I also have watched enough basketball in my life to know it does not take this long to get a program on track and that things were not that bad when MA arrived.  There was talent on the roster and a lot of talent in the upcoming class, already recruited by Pel and the APR was in solid shape.

I do not want the team to lose.

I do not want MA to fail.

I just think this might be a poor match for whatever reason.

For some reason he is not good at recruiting top-level talent and that is what is needed to win in a VERY WEAK SEC.  I would love for this next class to be the start of something great but for whatever reason I fear it will not be.  I honestly feel like it will just be an up for a couple of years and then a letdown and we are doomed to have HDN as our basketball coach for ten years.  I hope I am wrong and next year is the beginning of a long successful run.

[wheelspigharvey]

So this isn't about Anderson as it is the SEC in general.  Is it possible that while the conference isn't super great out of conference, the fact that many of these teams are rosters full of kids who have played in the SEC for awhile (not a ton of talent leaving early I mean) and coaches who know each others' game plans very well, that dominating in  conference play isn't an easy task for anybody?  Pretty much every team has lost to a bottom-dweller and a mid-tier team at this point.

[bhogs05]

I agree with Porktwain..it shouldn't take 5 years to turn around a basketball program.  Some people act like our program was under the death penalty or our school didn't even know what a basketball was when Mike got here.  Mike isn't an elite recruiter and he isn't an elite x's and o's guy either..that's not a good combo in my opinion.  I honestly don't think we will make the tourney next year but if we do, it'll be a 8-12 seed..one and done more than likely.  I don't think Anderson is the answer..if he's here 5 more years I don't see a sweet 16 in our future even.  Hopefully I'm wrong and these jucos light it up but it's highly unlikely that all 3 will the first year on campus.. 2 years from now when they are seniors and whitt is a junior is when we should make a tourney run of some kind.  Guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. 

[The_Iceman]

One Common Misconception I hear is that "all he recruits is athletes." I disagree. I think he brings in too many players that don't really fit what he wants and he needs more athletes.

[wheelspigharvey]

One Common Misconception I hear is that "all he recruits is athletes." I disagree. I think he brings in too many players that don't really fit what he wants and he needs more athletes.

Yeah, I think we actually have more high IQ guys than we have athleticism.  Thompson for example has a high IQ but still needs to get in even better shape.  I think Hannahs might fit that too.

[bhogs05]

I'll agree with that too..we are one of the most unathletic teams in the SEC..no question about it, and short too.   

[RazorPiggie]

For those of us that are unhappy with the state of the Hogs. 

First basketball should never be compared to football or baseball...ever...

I have been watching the Razorbacks since the 80's and have certain expectations.  I also have watched enough basketball in my life to know it does not take this long to get a program on track and that things were not that bad when MA arrived.  There was talent on the roster and a lot of talent in the upcoming class, already recruited by Pel and the APR was in solid shape.

I do not want the team to lose.

I do not want MA to fail.

I just think this might be a poor match for whatever reason.

For some reason he is not good at recruiting top-level talent and that is what is needed to win in a VERY WEAK SEC.  I would love for this next class to be the start of something great but for whatever reason I fear it will not be.  I honestly feel like it will just be an up for a couple of years and then a letdown and we are doomed to have HDN as our basketball coach for ten years.  I hope I am wrong and next year is the beginning of a long successful run.

My thoughts as well. It doesn't take a few years to get your players in like football. Basketball only takes a recruiting class or two to turn a program around or a player or two.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

For those of us that are unhappy with the state of the Hogs. 

First basketball should never be compared to football or baseball...ever...

I have been watching the Razorbacks since the 80's and have certain expectations.  I also have watched enough basketball in my life to know it does not take this long to get a program on track and that things were not that bad when MA arrived.  There was talent on the roster and a lot of talent in the upcoming class, already recruited by Pel and the APR was in solid shape.

I do not want the team to lose.

I do not want MA to fail.

I just think this might be a poor match for whatever reason.

For some reason he is not good at recruiting top-level talent and that is what is needed to win in a VERY WEAK SEC.  I would love for this next class to be the start of something great but for whatever reason I fear it will not be.  I honestly feel like it will just be an up for a couple of years and then a letdown and we are doomed to have HDN as our basketball coach for ten years.  I hope I am wrong and next year is the beginning of a long successful run.

I agree with everything except that Pelphrey had us in decent shape.

The most talented returning guard was Julysses Nobles. Michael Sanchez and Marvell Waithe was our returning front court. Powell getting injured in the second game did that team zero favors.

[The_Iceman]

I'll agree with that too..we are one of the most unathletic teams in the SEC..no question about it, and short too.   

That will change next season.

6'0" Beard
6'2" Hannahs
6'4" Macon
6'4" Watkins
6'4" Whitt
6'4" CJ Jones
6'5" Barford
6'7" Jenkins
6'7" Bailey
6'7" Thomas
6'8" Cook
6'9" Thompson
6'10" Kingsley

That is starting to look more like the roster I'd expect from a Mike Anderson team.

[wheelspigharvey]

That will change next season.

6'0" Beard
6'2" Hannahs
6'4" Macon
6'4" Watkins
6'4" Whitt
6'4" CJ Jones
6'5" Barford
6'7" Jenkins
6'7" Bailey
6'7" Thomas
6'8" Cook
6'9" Thompson
6'10" Kingsley

That is starting to look more like the roster I'd expect from a Mike Anderson team.

I was worried about the size, then I was looking up that Mizzou Elite 8 team for another reason.  Carroll and Bowers were both "only" 6'8", something I'm sure has been discussed already, but makes me feel good knowing.

[Pork Twain]

I agree with everything except that Pelphrey had us in decent shape.

The most talented returning guard was Julysses Nobles. Michael Sanchez and Marvell Waithe was our returning front court. Powell getting injured in the second game did that team zero favors.

When MA stepped on campus he had the following returnees and zero APR issues to worry about.  Xfers are on the coach not recruiting them to stay.
Farmar
Scott
Wade
Bryant Xfer
Clarke Xfer
Waithe
Powell

His ready made class included
Madden
Abron
Young
Mickelson

[bhogs05]

That is much better looking..Mike needs long athletic guard and wing guys to run his system the way he wants.  Kingsley is the perfect center for it too b/c he is really athletic and can run the floor..he's actually probably a better fit for it than Portis was. 

[wheelspigharvey]

When MA stepped on campus he had the following returnees and zero APR issues to worry about.  Xfers are on the coach not recruiting them to stay.
Farmar
Scott
Wade
Bryant Xfer
Clarke Xfer
Waithe
Powell

His ready made class included
Madden
Abron
Young
Mickelson

I'll still take this season's team over that one, especially in the front court.

Edit:  Actually pretty much everywhere, I'd take this team.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

When MA stepped on campus he had the following returnees and zero APR issues to worry about.  Xfers are on the coach not recruiting them to stay.
Farmar
Scott
Wade
Bryant Xfer
Clarke Xfer
Waithe
Powell

His ready made class included
Madden
Abron
Young
Mickelson

Beating Michigan and getting 18 wins with that squad must of been a heck of a coaching job.

[Pork Twain]

I'll still take this season's team over that one, especially in the front court.

Edit:  Actually pretty much everywhere, I'd take this team.

Very interesting...  Had Bryant and Clarke not transferred, that could have been a pretty solid team.

[Pork Twain]

Nolan did great things with JC kids and here is to hoping that MA will do the same starting next year

[ShadowHawg]

The SEC is so weak that Lunardi has 5 teams in and 2 on the bubble. It also is second only to the ACC in NBA draft picks over the last 10 years.

The program hasn't advanced to the Sweet 16 in 20 years while winning only 38% of its' conference games in the decade prior to MA.

Most basketball rebuilds in the one and done era do take this long.

I am not picking on Pork here, but it amazes me how little most of our fans know about the depth of the demise of the program prior to MA, the fact that this is the toughest conference to win on the road in, how much NBA talent is in this league which means it is not an easy league navigate, and then just act like that with fewer big time kids available these days due to the one and done that they wouldn't just want to flock to the U of A. They don't flock to UNLV anymore either for the same reasons. Too long since we have been relevant.

The state of our program before MA was the worst it had been since before Sutton arrived. We had academic problems that had been stabilized thanks to Pel. We were the last D1 school in our region much less conference to get a practice facility, actual attendance was at levels only seen prior to Sutton with some crowds being smaller than the capacity of Barnhill by THOUSANDS, the roster was not even top half of the SEC with not enough schollies available to change that in short order. The only two programs in our conference with worse winning %s were South Carolina and Auburn in the DECADE prior to MA.

So the notion that the program wasn't in "that bad of shape" is not accurate. The notion that rebuilding a basketball program in today's climate is as easy as it was when you could count on 3 McDonald's All Americans to stay for all 4 years(Heury, Day, Mayberry)  is one of just not keeping up with the times.

I want MA to be the guy for sure. Let's not misunderstand that. He may not get it done here. His seat should be heating up. But I am just tired of the misconceptions about the state of today's collegiate game and how it affects a program like ours as well as the lack of recognition about just how far our program has fallen. You can't fix problems that you can't or refuse to see. This program wasn't even on life support when MA arrived, it was being shocked to check for signs of life.

And I have been a Hog basketball fanatic since the earliest days of the Sutton Triplets.

[wheelspigharvey]

Very interesting...  Had Bryant and Clarke not transferred, that could have been a pretty solid team.

Yeah I'd agree with that, I'm including the Powell injury when I say that as well so I guess I'm talking about the teams that actually saw the floor.

I mean, I really think that Moses now would eat all those big dudes' lunch, even Powell.  Some of those guards became good defenders over time but they never really got the knack for ball movement or scoring other than Madden, and IMO he was more valuable later. 

[wheelspigharvey]

Nolan did great things with JC kids and here is to hoping that MA will do the same starting next year

Think so, I think the JC thing is different now.  Less good players who need grades, more guys who needed more time to develop and take another shot at getting a D1 offer but still have a high ceiling.

I think they will have more pressure on them to produce than JUCOs "should," but I imagine them being the bench next season, and the core the season after that.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

The SEC is so weak that Lunardi has 5 teams in and 2 on the bubble. It also is second only to the ACC in NBA draft picks over the last 10 years.

The program hasn't advanced to the Sweet 16 in 20 years while winning only 38% of its' conference games in the decade prior to MA.

Most basketball rebuilds in the one and done era do take this long.

I am not picking on Pork here, but it amazes me how little most of our fans know about the depth of the demise of the program prior to MA, the fact that this is the toughest conference to win on the road in, how much NBA talent is in this league which means it is not an easy league navigate, and then just act like that with fewer big time kids available these days due to the one and done that they wouldn't just want to flock to the U of A. They don't flock to UNLV anymore either for the same reasons. Too long since we have been relevant.

The state of our program before MA was the worst it had been since before Sutton arrived. We had academic problems that had been stabilized thanks to Pel. We were the last D1 school in our region much less conference to get a practice facility, actual attendance was at levels only seen prior to Sutton with some crowds being smaller than the capacity of Barnhill by THOUSANDS, the roster was not even top half of the SEC with not enough schollies available to change that in short order. The only two programs in our conference with worse winning %s were South Carolina and Auburn in the DECADE prior to MA.

So the notion that the program wasn't in "that bad of shape" is not accurate. The notion that rebuilding a basketball program in today's climate is as easy as it was when you could count on 3 McDonald's All Americans to stay for all 4 years(Heury, Day, Mayberry)  is one of just not keeping up with the times.

I want MA to be the guy for sure. Let's not misunderstand that. He may not get it done here. His seat should be heating up. But I am just tired of the misconceptions about the state of today's collegiate game and how it affects a program like ours as well as the lack of recognition about just how far our program has fallen. You can't fix problems that you can't or refuse to see. This program wasn't even on life support when MA arrived, it was being shocked to check for signs of life.

And I have been a Hog basketball fanatic since the earliest days of the Sutton Triplets.

Good post. I'm not as much of an Anderson fanatic as I was prior to the Auburn debacle but this makes sense.

Our basketball program has been a joke since Nolan's tirade. Had Nolan not gone off the deep end he may have had the chance to coach Modica, Sullinger, and Igouadala.

The BB program has been such a hot pile of crap that we hired a coach, had a PC, called the hogs, then LEFT THE NEXT DAY!!  We were down to our 8th choice. A very nice guy but a guy that had moderate success at South Alabama.
Every other week someone was getting suspended. We had to suspend half our team at the beginning of the 09-10 season because of a rape case.  We had home losses to E. Tennessee State, South Alabama, UAB, and Morgan State.

[jjdlc]

When MA stepped on campus he had the following returnees and zero APR issues to worry about.  Xfers are on the coach not recruiting them to stay.
Farmar
Scott
Wade
Bryant Xfer
Clarke Xfer
Waithe
Powell

His ready made class included
Madden
Abron
Young
Mickelson

That roster isn't helping your argument that things were in good shape.  Also, we had to give up a scholarship CMAs first year due to the APR issues that Pelphry and Heath had created.

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2011/may/24/ncaa-revokes-scholarship-arkansas-basketball/

Look, I'm not happy with the situation right now.  CMA has recruited, or not recruited, himself into a mess that should not have happened in year 5, especially coming off our most successful season in 20 years, but, lets not pretend that CMA inherited anything resembling a solid program.

[Pork Twain]

So this isn't about Anderson as it is the SEC in general.  Is it possible that while the conference isn't super great out of conference, the fact that many of these teams are rosters full of kids who have played in the SEC for awhile (not a ton of talent leaving early I mean) and coaches who know each others' game plans very well, that dominating in  conference play isn't an easy task for anybody?  Pretty much every team has lost to a bottom-dweller and a mid-tier team at this point.

It "should" be easier to build a winning team in a conference that is down

[Pork Twain]

That roster isn't helping your argument that things were in good shape.  Also, we had to give up a scholarship CMAs first year due to the APR issues that Pelphry and Heath had created.

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2011/may/24/ncaa-revokes-scholarship-arkansas-basketball/

Look, I'm not happy with the situation right now.  CMA has recruited, or not recruited, himself into a mess that should not have happened in year 5, especially coming off our most successful season in 20 years, but, lets not pretend that CMA inherited anything resembling a solid program.

Whatever you say.  That was a solid foundation of a roster and a very good class already recruited.

The ONLY thing Pel did worthwhile was fix our APR issues

[The_Iceman]

Good post. I'm not as much of an Anderson fanatic as I was prior to the Auburn debacle but this makes sense.

Our basketball program has been a joke since Nolan's tirade. Had Nolan not gone off the deep end he may have had the chance to coach Modica, Sullinger, and Igouadala.

I do wonder what our team would have been like that next season. Modica, Sullinger, Iggy, Mukubu. Would Demario Eddins have made it here or were grades keeping him out? Could Nolan have turned this program around if given one more year?

[Pork Twain]

I do wonder what our team would have been like that next season. Modica, Sullinger, Iggy, Mukubu. Would Demario Eddins have made it here or were grades keeping him out? Could Nolan have turned this program around if given one more year?

Man he had a hell of a class lined up.  I thought it was the start to another solid run

[jkstock04]

First basketball should never be compared to football or baseball...ever...

Comparisons in the way of generalities are fair. And i think it's fair to say most of our fans have much higher expectations (success in wins/losses) in basketball compared to football.

[The_Iceman]

Man he had a hell of a class lined up.  I thought it was the start to another solid run

I think the roster would have looked something like:

G: JJ Sullinger / Jonathan Modica
G: Andre Iguodala / Wen Mukubu
F: Demario Eddins / Blake Eddins / Michael Jones
F: Alonzo Lane / Carl Baker / Dionisio Gomez / Berry Jordan
F: Larry Satchell / Rashard Sullivan

Those are all the players projected to be on that team. I was very young back then so I may be wrong on some of that. I think Brandon Tobias was supposed to come here too, but he ended up at UAB (and didn't do too much). No player under 6'5". We would have struggled shooting and handling the ball, but we'd have been long and deep.

Maybe someone with a better memory could piece what Nolan would have had if he would have stayed. This old article touches on some of that.
http://www.arkansasfight.com/2012/3/26/2901599/the-what-if-game-razorback-basketball-edition

[Marshfieldhog]

That will change next season.

6'0" Beard
6'2" Hannahs
6'4" Macon
6'4" Watkins
6'4" Whitt
6'4" CJ Jones
6'5" Barford
6'7" Jenkins
6'7" Bailey
6'7" Thomas
6'8" Cook
6'9" Thompson
6'10" Kingsley

That is starting to look more like the roster I'd expect from a Mike Anderson team.

Roster looks like an NIT/NCAA bubble team. If Kingsley leaves we will simply get killed inside.

[Atlhogfan1]

Its Igoudala/Sullinger dream day.  A player who was a great athlete but not much else as a college player and a big guard who was slow, couldn't shoot, didn't protect the ball very well and didn't do much of anything but rebound.  They weren't achieving anything of significance without some unexpected influx of talent to help them. 

As far as NBA draft picks, how many of those have been UK?  The quality of depth in SEC basketball teams has not been good for several years.  UK and Florida have been constants.  You can look to seeding to the respect for the depth and quality the league has had.  And it isn't easy for undertalented, undercoached teams to win on the road. 

[hogsanity]

Comparisons in the way of generalities are fair. And i think it's fair to say most of our fans have much higher expectations (success in wins/losses) in basketball compared to football.

and you'd be wrong because most people do not care about basketball anymore.

[Auburn]

It also is second only to the ACC in NBA draft picks over the last 10 years.

And how many of those are because of Kentucky, proportionally?

**Found it.  22 of 88.  And Florida has 12, and LSU 7.  So almost half by 3 schools.  I figured UK had more.

[Atlhogfan1]

One Common Misconception I hear is that "all he recruits is athletes." I disagree. I think he brings in too many players that don't really fit what he wants and he needs more athletes.

This reputation goes back to the last seasons of the Nolan era and not totally warranted.  The lack of athleticism has been a very recent occurrence as he and his staff have failed so often in recruiting and have taken what they can get. 

[dsims2k3]

For those of us that are unhappy with the state of the Hogs. 

First basketball should never be compared to football or baseball...ever...

I have been watching the Razorbacks since the 80's and have certain expectations.  I also have watched enough basketball in my life to know it does not take this long to get a program on track and that things were not that bad when MA arrived.  There was talent on the roster and a lot of talent in the upcoming class, already recruited by Pel and the APR was in solid shape.

I do not want the team to lose.

I do not want MA to fail.

I just think this might be a poor match for whatever reason.

For some reason he is not good at recruiting top-level talent and that is what is needed to win in a VERY WEAK SEC.  I would love for this next class to be the start of something great but for whatever reason I fear it will not be.  I honestly feel like it will just be an up for a couple of years and then a letdown and we are doomed to have HDN as our basketball coach for ten years.  I hope I am wrong and next year is the beginning of a long successful run.

IJS



For some reason there are higher expectations for the basketball program than the football program when we are a FOOTBALL FIRST school. We can't have it both ways. If we were basketball first, I would truly understand. In reality, we are a football school who were lucky enough to have back to back HOF coaches. Like the rest of the SEC outside of KENTUCKY.   

[Swinesong1]

and you'd be wrong because most people do not care about basketball anymore.

Yet, you continually post.

[Atlhogfan1]

IJS



For some reason there are higher expectations for the basketball program than the football program when we are a FOOTBALL FIRST school. We can't have it both ways. If we were basketball first, I would truly understand. In reality, we are a football school who were lucky enough to have back to back HOF coaches. Like the rest of the SEC outside of KENTUCKY.   

For some reason?  It isn't hard to figure out.  We aren't at the competitive disadvantage in basketball that we are in football.  We can have it both ways because we do.  It is the reality.  The focus is football.  The admin's focus is football because it by far brings in the most revenue.  Football is much more popular right now in our country and especially in our region.  But our particular situation is unique as we face a situation that really no other program in college football does.   

[hogsanity]

Yet, you continually post.

did I say EVERYONE did not care?

[GuvHog]

Whatever you say.  That was a solid foundation of a roster and a very good class already recruited.

The ONLY thing Pel did worthwhile was fix our APR issues

Correct. John Pelphrey didn't create the APR issues, he fixed them. Heath is the one who created them.

Pel also had the highest ranked recruiting class we'd had in years coming in for the next season when he was terminated.

[Pork Twain]

IJS



For some reason there are higher expectations for the basketball program than the football program when we are a FOOTBALL FIRST school. We can't have it both ways. If we were basketball first, I would truly understand. In reality, we are a football school who were lucky enough to have back to back HOF coaches. Like the rest of the SEC outside of KENTUCKY.   

This is why you do not compare the two and that is not what I was doing.  MA and HDN can be comparable due to their history with the program, their results and the difficulty in firing them.

The two have nothing to do with each other and you can in fact be good at both, it just does not happen that often.  I grew up in the 80s/90s and I would call Arkansas a basketball school then.  It likely still would be if NR left on good terms and we made a solid hire.

[Paul]

I'd venture to say that most of us on this forum are true Hog fans & want a team that plays hard & has a chance to reach the NCAA most years.  It's undeniable that MA in 5 years has not reached the potential most of us expected.   

[rude1]

It "should" be easier to build a winning team in a conference that is down

I think what you are missing here is what has been said by others, if the conference is as bad as you keep insisting and the program was performing right near the bottom of that conference in the decade before CMA arrived, what does that tell you about the shape of the program?

I don't think the program is where it could be at this point in the tenure, but some of the arguments some of you bring up are bizzare. There's plenty of legitimate reasons for concern without fabricating stuff to try and further push an agenda.

[Atlhogfan1]

I think what you are missing here is what has been said by others, if the conference is as bad as you keep insisting and the program was performing right near the bottom of that conference in the decade before CMA arrived, what does that tell you about the shape of the program?

I don't think the program is where it could be at this point in the tenure, but some of the arguments some of you bring up are bizzare. There's plenty of legitimate reasons for concern without fabricating stuff to try and further push an agenda.

Was the conference as weak in the decade prior?  We made the NCAAT with a losing SEC record in 06-07. 
We finished 2nd or 3rd in the West four times in the 10 seasons before Anderson and 4th three more times. 

[DeltaBoy]

I just not seeing the consistency I expected. Losing folks early to the NBA hurts too.

[Breems]

One Common Misconception I hear is that "all he recruits is athletes." I disagree. I think he brings in too many players that don't really fit what he wants and he needs more athletes.

"Athletes" is just a nice euphemism around here for poor basketball players.

The "athletes" you say he needs more of are good basketball players that are athletic.

[RazorPiggie]

The SEC is so weak that Lunardi has 5 teams in and 2 on the bubble. It also is second only to the ACC in NBA draft picks over the last 10 years.

The program hasn't advanced to the Sweet 16 in 20 years while winning only 38% of its' conference games in the decade prior to MA.

Most basketball rebuilds in the one and done era do take this long.

I am not picking on Pork here, but it amazes me how little most of our fans know about the depth of the demise of the program prior to MA, the fact that this is the toughest conference to win on the road in, how much NBA talent is in this league which means it is not an easy league navigate, and then just act like that with fewer big time kids available these days due to the one and done that they wouldn't just want to flock to the U of A. They don't flock to UNLV anymore either for the same reasons. Too long since we have been relevant.

The state of our program before MA was the worst it had been since before Sutton arrived. We had academic problems that had been stabilized thanks to Pel. We were the last D1 school in our region much less conference to get a practice facility, actual attendance was at levels only seen prior to Sutton with some crowds being smaller than the capacity of Barnhill by THOUSANDS, the roster was not even top half of the SEC with not enough schollies available to change that in short order. The only two programs in our conference with worse winning %s were South Carolina and Auburn in the DECADE prior to MA.

So the notion that the program wasn't in "that bad of shape" is not accurate. The notion that rebuilding a basketball program in today's climate is as easy as it was when you could count on 3 McDonald's All Americans to stay for all 4 years(Heury, Day, Mayberry)  is one of just not keeping up with the times.

I want MA to be the guy for sure. Let's not misunderstand that. He may not get it done here. His seat should be heating up. But I am just tired of the misconceptions about the state of today's collegiate game and how it affects a program like ours as well as the lack of recognition about just how far our program has fallen. You can't fix problems that you can't or refuse to see. This program wasn't even on life support when MA arrived, it was being shocked to check for signs of life.

And I have been a Hog basketball fanatic since the earliest days of the Sutton Triplets.

Take Kentucky out. How many players are drafted?
Did a little search. The SEC (minus UK) has had 17 players drafted since the 2012 draft. UK has had 16 in that time span. The SEC isn't a tough league outside of UK.

And hmm UNLV over the last 5 years has had the #14, #13, #3, #28, & #5 ranked classes according to 24/7. And if you've forgot, they beat us out for a kid from Memphis.

[jkstock04]

and you'd be wrong because most people do not care about basketball anymore.

Absolutely. The reason being because we don't win at a high rate anymore and that irritated people to the point of apathy. That scenerio is not going to happen in football.

In football there is always more coach worship and leniency (to coach of present)....and other things like public relations, "building things the right way", more media coverage, program slogans, etc. that have as much value or more value than wins/losses.

Basketball is more so about bottom line wins vs losses when considering "success." I think that's they way it should be...I agree with it. But I do see a double standard. A lot of these expectations are probably because the Sutton and Richardson years are still fresh in the minds on many Hog fans.

[Pork Twain]

I think what you are missing here is what has been said by others, if the conference is as bad as you keep insisting and the program was performing right near the bottom of that conference in the decade before CMA arrived, what does that tell you about the shape of the program?

I don't think the program is where it could be at this point in the tenure, but some of the arguments some of you bring up are bizzare. There's plenty of legitimate reasons for concern without fabricating stuff to try and further push an agenda.

I do not keep insisting anything but I think the conference record over the last 10 years speaks volumes.  What it tells me is that we have underachieved from what we all know we are capable of but we were on an APR and talent upswing about the time MA arrived.  It also tells me that maybe that 2.2 million a year is a high price to pay for a team that is threatening to finish below .500 in year five.

What is being fabricated?

[Atlhogfan1]

Absolutely. The reason being because we don't win at a high rate anymore and that irritated people to the point of apathy. That scenerio is not going to happen in football.

In football there is always more coach worship and leniency (to coach of present)....and other things like public relations, "building things the right way", more media coverage, program slogans, etc. that have as much value or more value than wins/losses.

Basketball is more so about bottom line wins vs losses when considering "success." I think that's they way it should be...I agree with it. But I do see a double standard. A lot of these expectations are probably because the Sutton and Richardson years are still fresh in the minds on many Hog fans.

The football program is the biggest brand shaper right now for our athl dept and p.r. for the university. 

I don't think there is more leniency with the football coaches.

Part of the football situation goes to our only real handicap which is a huge one - recruiting disadvantage compared to our competition.

There is a thread in the bask recr forum about how we have the 27th ranked class right now and 5th in the SEC.  A 27th ranked football class would be somewhere between the 11th - 14th SEC class depending on Vandy, UK, Mizzou and maybe a MSU and far behind most of our SECW competition.  In a good year we could come in last in recruiting in the SECW.  It is a very unique situation to be in and one no other football program is and our bask program certainly isn't. 

It isn't a double standard.  Different situations. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I do not keep insisting anything but I think the conference record over the last 10 years speaks volumes.  What it tells me is that we have underachieved from what we all know we are capable of but we were on an APR and talent upswing about the time MA arrived.  It also tells me that maybe that 2.2 million a year is a high price to pay for a team that is threatening to finish below .500 in year five.

What is being fabricated?

Sometimes the fabrications or overstatements are how bad of a situation the program was in and how badly it performed when it wasn't all horrible.  But it has to be done now in order to make the starting point seem as low as possible for this rebuild. 

[Pork Twain]

Sometimes the fabrications or overstatements are how bad of a situation the program was in and how badly it performed when it wasn't all horrible.  But it has to be done now in order to make the starting point seem as low as possible for this rebuild. 

I am doing that where?

[Atlhogfan1]

I am doing that where?

Not directed to you.