A hard question to ask

[Hogs958]

And let me lead off by saying I do not think this is the case, but am just curious what others thinks. I do like these recent OL  commits, and am excited for them to become Hogs. Don't really care about the rankings.

Having said that, CBB was pissed last signing day and indicated certain things would never happen again. I've never seen this many commits from low ranking recruits so early on. What if come next Fall our class is filling up and we have legitimate interest from highly ranked recruits? Is he going to play "dirty" like Urban & Nick have done in the past, and find away to open a spot for these later recruits? I don't think he will, but am curious what other thinks. If this question is inappropriate please delete.

[JaketheSnake]

VERY few of these athletes have been ranked on anything except offers, and their junior year is not even over.  No need to worry right now.

[secneahog]

Bielema has always been a class act, to injured players, transfers, seniors. He's always impressed me. I don't see him start being shady now. We have alot of young talent now, that will be starting for us this year. Just keep adding smart, loves football, uncommon men and we will be fine.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

And let me lead off by saying I do not think this is the case, but am just curious what others thinks. I do like these recent OL  commits, and am excited for them to become Hogs. Don't really care about the rankings.

Having said that, CBB was pissed last signing day and indicated certain things would never happen again. I've never seen this many commits from low ranking recruits so early on. What if come next Fall our class is filling up and we have legitimate interest from highly ranked recruits? Is he going to play "dirty" like Urban & Nick have done in the past, and find away to open a spot for these later recruits? I don't think he will, but am curious what other thinks. If this question is inappropriate please delete.

I think that he has said in the past that once we have extended an offer and a recruit has committed verbally and continues to be committed to us, and they continue to remain eligible and don't get in any trouble and generally remain the young men that we extended offers to in the classroom and off the field, an offer would not be rescinded.

[Rockhawg]

JMO, I think a month or two from signing day we will have several fans worried that we are going to lose these guy's to some Big Time programs. I believe we got on these guy's early, and they will see a big jump in their rankings in six months.

[Oklahawg]

JMO, I think a month or two from signing day we will have several fans worried that we are going to lose these guy's to some Big Time programs. I believe we got on these guy's early, and they will see a big jump in their rankings in six months.

The surprise isn't that we are on these guys early, it is that they actually pulled the trigger and committed.

The staff has a proven track record of finding recruits who can mature into SEC players. We are not recruiting for the next season but for 3-4 years down the road. Projecting recruits is an imperfect science but we seem to be doing a fine job of it.

And, yes, I get the concern.

[a0ashle]

I am pretty sure we still have a couple scholly's left on the table in 2016 class, anyone who enroll a early can count back, there is room to maneuver for CBB to play with, without resorting to pulling offers later on.

[pigskenG]

If I remember correctly, Tretola was a 0* when the Hogs offered him, ended up being a 3* after he committed. He turned out just fine. Wish we had him for one more year.

[onebadrubi]

5 of the 7 are at positions we will be extremely thin at after this coming up season (OT and WR). 

We won't be left short at Oline any more like the Pittman years.

[Seebs]

I like the philosophy. While not linemen, Keil Pollard, Dejon Harris, others, were not the highest ranked guys when they committed.  we sweat it out at the end when they got their stars and attention from other power 5 schools. we kept one,m we lost one. 
I'm sure one of you can revive a thread that shows people questioning the offers for both just as some of you bristle that we have offered these lesser linemen and can now focus on better linemen.

Really?  Has your opinion of Arkansas and the staff become so low that you believe we are filling half the class with reaches and complete projects and now need to step it up to start filling the class with real players?

I choose to sit back and watch these three linemen climb the ranks after each camp and basks in the knowledge that our staff can evaluate talent and cultivate an atmosphere of family and something uncommon.

Staffs to not reach for players in March and April, they select. If this were January you'd all have an argument.

[Ramboar]

CBB has the best eyes for talent in all of college football. If he warrants them good enough for a scholly consider me onboard regardless of the stars.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

While I'm not terribly concerned about the current class, I can see why someone might be. We only have 2 commited guys that have an SEC offer and those offers are from MSU, Mizzou and Vandy. But like I said, I'm not overly concerned at this point. The staff does have a history of identifying guys early. Let's see how it plays out. If we fill the majority of a class with guys who are never adding SEC offers, there will be cause for concern.

[PorkRinds]

By the time all is said and done most of these guys will go up in ranking and get more offers. 

[Pig in the Pokey]

VERY few of these athletes have been ranked on anything except offers, and their junior year is not even over.  No need to worry right now.

people don't get that. They don'y really understand that these ratings are based off Junior year. I'm sure we can all agree that Senior year would be a much better indicator.

[oldbear]

Every offer extended by a coach basically puts his and the staff's jobs on the line. I have to believe that Coach B has enough confidence in their abilities to not just begin filling a class with kids that can't play at this level. This is part of why I dislike recruiting rankings so much. We have come to celebrate and bemoan wins and losses in February on a similar scale to those in the fall.

The kids who are committed have great measurable and impressive film. Let's at least give them a chance to get to the hill before declaring them reaches who don't really have talent. If a coach fills a roster with 3 stars who all make the NFL (I realize that isn't truly possible), they can compete with any team in the country.

[yraciv]

I'm in wait and see mode with this class, and have no problem if Bielema plays a little Saban/Meyer ball  late and cuts ties with 1 or 2.  It's the nature of recruiting and getting ahead, and you are trying to get ahead. Although, don't blindside them 2 weeks before national signing day, if you blindside them, it shouldn't be a Darius Philon type situation.

I'm confident in Bielema's ability to evaluate players.  I still have tremendous concerns about this class because I feel it is a subpar in state class, and that is something that is out of his control.  Usually we'll have 1 or 2 in state guys that our highly recruited Razorback fans lead the charge, and I don't see that with this class.

[ZERO]

Out of our seven commits, a couple of them are likely 4* players and we don't know it yet. When they start going to camps and getting more offers, it'll all come out in the wash.

Not an invalid concern, but it's quite a bit too early to be troubling yourself with it.

[ricepig]

Out of our seven commits, a couple of them are likely 4* players and we don't know it yet. When they start going to camps and getting more offers, it'll all come out in the wash.

Not an invalid concern, but it's quite a bit too early to be troubling yourself with it.

What camps are they going to? Now, increased offers, especially P5's will definitely improve ones rankings.

[Biggus Piggus]

This is the time of year when it makes sense to offer prospects for whom the coaches have an information advantage. Found them before others did. These players could prove underrated, if form holds.

This is not the time of year to expect many 4- and 5-star commitments. Those players are already well known and hotly recruited. It takes most of them many months to work through the recruiting process.

[nwahogfan1]

And let me lead off by saying I do not think this is the case, but am just curious what others thinks. I do like these recent OL  commits, and am excited for them to become Hogs. Don't really care about the rankings.

Having said that, CBB was pissed last signing day and indicated certain things would never happen again. I've never seen this many commits from low ranking recruits so early on. What if come next Fall our class is filling up and we have legitimate interest from highly ranked recruits? Is he going to play "dirty" like Urban & Nick have done in the past, and find away to open a spot for these later recruits? I don't think he will, but am curious what other thinks. If this question is inappropriate please delete.

If these latest  verbals are rated low 3 star or NR in December then we need to worry.

[Wildhog]

If these latest  verbals are rated low 3 star or NR in December then we need to worry.

No we don't.

[WizardofhOgZ]

If these latest  verbals are rated low 3 star or NR in December 2019, then we need to worry.

Fixed it for ya . . . 

Rankings don't really mean a thing until (a) they've made it to campus; and (b) we've seen them on the field for a couple of years.  THEN we can evaluate what we've gotten, and what their value is relative to other recruits.  Before that, it's all speculation.  Speculation that may - or may not - bear out.

As others have posted in this thread, BB's history of finding relatively lowly ranked kids - especially in the OL - justifies giving him the benefit of the doubt.  They wouldn't be extending offers - much less, accepting commitments - if they didn't feel good about these prospects.

[yraciv]

Out of our seven commits, a couple of them are likely 4* players and we don't know it yet. When they start going to camps and getting more offers, it'll all come out in the wash.

Not an invalid concern, but it's quite a bit too early to be troubling yourself with it.

Have they all been living under a rock and not attending camps through the first 2 years of HS?  Yes there may be some that end up gaining some major offers and rising the rankings, but I don't anticipate all of them to start racking up P5 offers.

[Oklahawg]

Have they all been living under a rock and not attending camps through the first 2 years of HS?  Yes there may be some that end up gaining some major offers and rising the rankings, but I don't anticipate all of them to start racking up P5 offers.

A bit naive about the overall process, maybe.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Again, no reason at all to be getting upset about rankings yet (if at all). IF you want to drum up some concern this early in the game, it would be the lack of SEC offers from our commits. But again, they have plenty of time to add those and this staff does well at early evals (typically)

[nwahogfan1]

Fixed it for ya . . . 

Rankings don't really mean a thing until (a) they've made it to campus; and (b) we've seen them on the field for a couple of years.  THEN we can evaluate what we've gotten, and what their value is relative to other recruits.  Before that, it's all speculation.  Speculation that may - or may not - bear out.

As others have posted in this thread, BB's history of finding relatively lowly ranked kids - especially in the OL - justifies giving him the benefit of the doubt.  They wouldn't be extending offers - much less, accepting commitments - if they didn't feel good about these prospects.

You did not clean it up for me.  I know what I am talking about.  Stars do matter.  Believe me you do not want a team full of OLM who were 2 star out of HS. 

[Huds_HawgTide]

Ummmm Houston nutt did pretty well with a predominantly lower rated offensive line...get one stud every cpl yrs and lots of guys that contribute by yr three and u can do great things

[bphi11ips]

Very honest question. Come back in 5 years.

[TNhawgfan]

After the disappointment of the "biggest weekend in Arkansas recruiting history" (or whatever they called it) and then the thud that was signing day, I'm ok with Coach getting plenty of early recruits. We have proved time and time again, we will always be bridesmaids to most of the 5 star talent we're on, so holding our scholarships for them is a risky gamble that doesn't pay off. I trust Coach's eye to find talent. Go get them signed before Gus, Hugh, and Swamp Donkey start poaching them

[wholehog92]

JMO, I think a month or two from signing day we will have several fans worried that we are going to lose these guy's to some Big Time programs. I believe we got on these guy's early, and they will see a big jump in their rankings in six months.

I agree with you.

To the OPs question though, I don't see BB playing dirty with these kids.  If they have an offer and qualify and stay out of trouble, I expect he will honor the offer even if the best OL in the country starts making flirtations with us.  They may be battling the highest rated OL in the country for a spot, but they will still get the opportunity promised.

[a0ashle]

So a thought that crossed my mind last year with the JUCO lineman offers and low overall count, was that maybe we really liked the crop of 2017 OL prospects for development. This would seem in line with that thought. Of course there is no way to tell if it's true. Just a hypothesis.

[Wildhog]

While CBB doesn't do it near as much as some coaches, it does happen from time to time.  See Corey McBride and Torrance Mosley.  I don't know any coach that's above it, to be honest.  You're being paid millions of dollars to win games. 

[ThisTeetsTaken]

And let me lead off by saying I do not think this is the case, but am just curious what others thinks. I do like these recent OL  commits, and am excited for them to become Hogs. Don't really care about the rankings.

Having said that, CBB was pissed last signing day and indicated certain things would never happen again. I've never seen this many commits from low ranking recruits so early on. What if come next Fall our class is filling up and we have legitimate interest from highly ranked recruits? Is he going to play "dirty" like Urban & Nick have done in the past, and find away to open a spot for these later recruits? I don't think he will, but am curious what other thinks. If this question is inappropriate please delete.

What was this all about?

[PorkRinds]

What was this all about?

star gazing

[ThisTeetsTaken]

star gazing

I tried to put the part about CBB being mad in bold letters but I guess it didn't work.   What was he mad about?

[ricepig]

I tried to put the part about CBB being mad in bold letters but I guess it didn't work.   What was he mad about?

I think he was mad a losing the JUCO DB on signing day at the last hour, outside of that, nothing I can think of.

[Hoggish1]

Don't over think stuff...

[Hogs958]

Some good insight on this. This wasn't a rankings or star gazing based question by any means. All hypothetical. Recruiting is an interesting game, and seems to change every year.

[WizardofhOgZ]

You did not clean it up for me.  I know what I am talking about.  Stars do matter.  Believe me you do not want a team full of OLM who were 2 star out of HS.

Yes, I did.  You may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Note that I did NOT say it's a bad thing to recruit 4 and 5 stars.  Just that it's a moot point if they don't qualify/stay out of trouble and never get to campus.  Also, that Bielema has a history of consistently developing good OL - no matter who his OL coach is.  So, he knows what to look for and what kind of kid ends up sticking around and contributing.  If he's ACCEPTING commitments from these young men at this early stage, he MUST think they have the right stuff.  None of us will really know for about 2 or 3 years, but if HE thinks they are good enough to take now, then I feel pretty good about them.  No guarantees, nothing like that.  But based on WHO is doing the offering and accepting, and how early it is in the process, I feel good about it.

And if a couple of these kids end up starting 30+ games for us, maybe making All SEC or being drafted . . . I don't care how many stars they have TODAY . . .

[Wildhog]

You did not clean it up for me.  I know what I am talking about.  Stars do matter.  Believe me you do not want a team full of OLM who were 2 star out of HS. 

Offers matter.  They're a quantifiable metric of how college coaches view the value of a prospect.

Stars do not matter.

[Wildhog]

Yes, I did.  You may not like the answer, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Note that I did NOT say it's a bad thing to recruit 4 and 5 stars.  Just that it's a moot point if they don't qualify/stay out of trouble and never get to campus.  Also, that Bielema has a history of consistently developing good OL - no matter who his OL coach is.  So, he knows what to look for and what kind of kid ends up sticking around and contributing.  If he's ACCEPTING commitments from these young men at this early stage, he MUST think they have the right stuff.  None of us will really know for about 2 or 3 years, but if HE thinks they are good enough to take now, then I feel pretty good about them.  No guarantees, nothing like that.  But based on WHO is doing the offering and accepting, and how early it is in the process, I feel good about it.

And if a couple of these kids end up starting 30+ games for us, maybe making All SEC or being drafted . . . I don't care how many stars they have TODAY . . .

Correct.  If we're taking a prospect this early, you better believe that our coaches think VERY highly of them.

[FATHAWG08]

All you have to do is look at some of the 3 star players we had committed in our last class & how Bama, Georgia & Florida came after them late. It is no secret people in high places value BB opinion on talent.

[hawg IQ]

And let me lead off by saying I do not think this is the case, but am just curious what others thinks. I do like these recent OL  commits, and am excited for them to become Hogs. Don't really care about the rankings.

Having said that, CBB was pissed last signing day and indicated certain things would never happen again. I've never seen this many commits from low ranking recruits so early on. What if come next Fall our class is filling up and we have legitimate interest from highly ranked recruits? Is he going to play "dirty" like Urban & Nick have done in the past, and find away to open a spot for these later recruits? I don't think he will, but am curious what other thinks. If this question is inappropriate please delete.

Lots of ways to look at this !?   recruit to your needs, but don't turn down a 4/5 star at any position.  Numbers only matter when they are "not" filled IMO.   If 4-5 spots were open and we passed on quality 3 stars and they signed elsewhere- bad deal.

Evaluate, evaluate, evaluate... and that's grades, retainable, attitude, criminal back ground, etc. ability and projections.

These 2 past recruiting years we, have had epic fails on running backs as far as numbers go. Not saying we didn't get good ones, just not enough good ones. If an offense gets shut down because of a J Will type injury, that's 1-2, maybe three wins right there.  Linebackers/ secondary was same thing.

Recruit year around, evaluate year around. If we are not getting enough quality players, you have to up your game there. When is the last time we felt, any of us really felt that we recruited a well rounded class. Instead  it goes something like 5 tight ends, 2 O-line, 1 d end , 4 receivers , a maybe linebacker, 4 athletes, 1 running back in a good year, 2 juco guys any position, 1 kicker, a project d-line prospect or 2 to 3-4 unfilled positions, see my point .

I thinks its time for BB to get mad and expect better and more well rounded recruiting classes. So if that is his thinking, amen to that. The wait and try to hit on a prima-donna or some pie in sky kid that already so spoiled, he walks around trying have it all his way, no way!?

[PorkRinds]

Lots of ways to look at this !?   recruit to your needs, but don't turn down a 4/5 star at any position.  Numbers only matter when they are "not" filled IMO.   If 4-5 spots were open and we passed on quality 3 stars and they signed elsewhere- bad deal.

Evaluate, evaluate, evaluate... and that's grades, retainable, attitude, criminal back ground, etc. ability and projections.

These 2 past recruiting years we, have had epic fails on running backs as far as numbers go. Not saying we didn't get good ones, just not enough good ones. If an offense gets shut down because of a J Will type injury, that's 1-2, maybe three wins right there.  Linebackers/ secondary was same thing.

Recruit year around, evaluate year around. If we are not getting enough quality players, you have to up your game there. When is the last time we felt, any of us really felt that we recruited a well rounded class. Instead  it goes something like 5 tight ends, 2 O-line, 1 d end , 4 receivers , a maybe linebacker, 4 athletes, 1 running back in a good year, 2 juco guys any position, 1 kicker, a project d-line prospect or 2 to 3-4 unfilled positions, see my point .

I thinks its time for BB to get mad and expect better and more well rounded recruiting classes. So if that is his thinking, amen to that. The wait and try to hit on a prima-donna or some pie in sky kid that already so spoiled, he walks around trying have it all his way, no way!?

I could argue with this overly simplistic view of recruiting, but I won't.  I could tell you about misconceptions you evidently have about recruiting, but I don't want to.

[hawg IQ]

I could argue with this overly simplistic view of recruiting, but I won't.  I could tell you about misconceptions you evidently have about recruiting, but I don't want to.

It was just my thoughts about how we've been recruiting, nothing personal against coaches , fans, . Just an opinion, I could be very wrong !
  I am sure coaches do what they do for many reasons. Here at Arkansas, its has to be tough, yet we hog fans have very high expectations about competing with the bamas, lsu type teams. Those teams sorta select recruits, Hog coaches don't always have that luxury, I know.
Then there is Ol Miss.. no explaination , yet maybe there is !?

[Kenny Buzzhog]

Yall people are funny. You offer early you bitch or wait to offer you bitch. LOL That pretty much sums up what Ive observed & read on here the last several months. Yall keep it up! When you get tired of running in circles yall might get dizzy & pass out. No Offense. I just like being a spectator.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Yall people are funny. You offer early you bitch or wait to offer you bitch. LOL That pretty much sums up what Ive observed & read on here the last several months. Yall keep it up! When you get tired of running in circles yall might get dizzy & pass out. No Offense. I just like being a spectator.

Here's how it works on Hogville...

You don't offer or accept an offer from a prospect that hasn't been evaluated and awarded his stars by the "experts". You allow Bama to offer the kid first...which automatically means he will be a four star prospect the following day according to the "experts". At this point the Hogville "experts" will bemoan the fact CBB and staff didn't offer the prospect sooner and insist the Hogs coaches need to work harder in identifying these prospects.

Wash, rinse, and repeat as necessary.

[Kenny Buzzhog]

Here's how it works on Hogville...

You don't offer or accept an offer from a prospect that hasn't been evaluated and awarded his stars by the "experts". You allow Bama to offer the kid first...which automatically means he will be a four star prospect the following day according to the "experts". At this point the Hogville "experts" will bemoan the fact CBB and staff didn't offer the prospect sooner and insist the Hogs coaches need to work harder in identifying these prospects.

Wash, rinse, and repeat as necessary.

You hit the nail on the head. I just didn't go into as much detail. LOL