Pete Rose

[Wayne Watson]

If your on Twitter, let @RobManfred know you want Pete Rose in the Baseball Hall of Fame!

[jrulz83]

I don't want him on the Hall, not until he's dead anyway and I'd probably prefer not ever. The guy bet on baseball games that he was managing in and admitted to it. That has to have dire consequences. The rule that he violated says: Rule 21 Misconduct, (d) Betting on Ball Games, Any player, umpire, or club, or league official, or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible

There's no wiggle room, he should be banned for life. If they reinstate him I'll be disappointed.

[pigture perfect]

I agree that Rose should not be in the Hall. At least the steroid guys were cheating to win. Who knows if Rose was cheating to lose or not. Just saying it's easier to cheat to lose if you're gambling.

[bellavistamike]

Yep. and he agreed to the lifetime ban. And he deserved it.

[popcornhog]

I agree that Rose should not be in the Hall. At least the steroid guys were cheating to win. Who knows if Rose was cheating to lose or not. Just saying it's easier to cheat to lose if you're gambling.

I'll say this, if he was only betting on his teams to win I frankly have no problem with it. The problem is that we can't really know.

[lefty08]

Anybody that watched the way the guy played the game can't believe he would tank games as a manager. Its absurd to think that imo

He is the greatest hitter of his generation, possibly of any generation. I don't see what he did as any different than popping greenies, PEDs, or alcohol use during prohibition

He deserves a spot in the hall

[EastexHawg]

When I read that rule the meaning I get is that he is ineligible to play or manage.  I don't see or read anything that says his past accomplishments can't be recognized in the Hall of Fame.

Waiting until after he dies to enshrine him, just so he can never enjoy the honor, is downright vindictive.

It's been a quarter of a century and he is an old man now.  I don't think he's the greatest hitter ever, or even one of the greatest...he just played longer and came to bat a lot more than other great hitters...but as the all-time leader in hits he has to be in the Hall of Fame.

[The Boar War]

They need to have an asterisk wing in the hall of fame for Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Jim Devlin, and Shoeless Joe.

[jrulz83]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986

He bet on games as a player; change any opinions?

[bellavistamike]

I read that Rose bet on Reds games as a player, player-manager earlier today. I always thought he was a skunk, Now I'm positive he doesn't belong reinstated and eligible for the BBHoF.

[McKdaddy]

I never bet on baseball was maintained until he came clean in a book for which he profited.  Then the mantra was I never bet on baseball as a player.  During all this, I was for Pete eventually getting into the HOF.

I don't have patience for repeated liars.  Keep him out.

[onebadrubi]

In my opinion, he's more deserving of a HOF vote than steroid users. Steroid users are artificially bettering themselves to play the game at better strengths.  Betting does not do this.  Betting does not help you Hit a double with two outs and a guy on second and third, or throw a guy out tagging up.  It does not help you play any position.  The evidence that did come out yesterday did say all of his bets that were on the Reds were for them to win, nothing against his teams.  I don't mind him not in the HOF, but I do mind it if steroid guys are allowed.

Baseball made an example of him.  They should do the same with arod or one of the first steroid guys instead we let them grow old and back in The league as coaches.

[clutch]

He still got a s***load of hits. Let him in. His career was HoF worthy. I'm tired of the HoF being more about who these guys are as a person instead of what they did on the field.

[McKdaddy]

Onebadrubi and clutch, I have a hard time disagreeing w/ you.

[DOGALUM]

Count me in the "put him in" camp.

It's long overdue.   The guy was a HOF player and that should be all you need.

[jrulz83]

MLB has a rule that declares any person with a duty to perform that bets on the game to be permanently inelligible. It's unequivocal in its wording.

Rules are made for a reason, but I guess it's the typical athlete entitlement mindset going on with many in this thread: if you're a good enough player rules don't apply.

[clutch]

MLB has a rule that declares any person with a duty to perform that bets on the game to be permanently inelligible. It's unequivocal in its wording.

Rules are made for a reason, but I guess it's the typical athlete entitlement mindset going on with many in this thread: if you're a good enough player rules don't apply.

No, it's not an athlete entitlement issue with me. Banned from baseball? That's fine. The HoF and baseball should be viewed separately. Just because you are no longer allowed to participate in baseball doesn't mean your accomplishments aren't HoF worthy.

[jrulz83]

No, it's not an athlete entitlement issue with me. Banned from baseball? That's fine. The HoF and baseball should be viewed separately. Just because you are no longer allowed to participate in baseball doesn't mean your accomplishments aren't HoF worthy.

So because someone's accomplishments are worthy of Hall induction we should let them in with no regard to any rule(s) that they have broken?

That is athlete entitlement thinking.

The rules don't apply to me because I can hit .330; so what if it's with a corked bat? I still have to be able to get the bat on the ball to do it.

That is the slope you start down with that thinking. I don't disagree that Rose was a great player, but he broke the (since what 1919?) cardinal rule of baseball. Plus he has lied about it for practically 30 years. There has to be some restitution paid by him. Exclusion from the Hall is the price he must pay, unless MLB wants to change their rules.

[Dr. Starcs]

If they reverse this decision, what's to stop future players/managers for doing the same thing?

[clutch]

So because someone's accomplishments are worthy of Hall induction we should let them in with no regard to any rule(s) that they have broken?

That is athlete entitlement thinking.

The rules don't apply to me because I can hit .330; so what if it's with a corked bat? I still have to be able to get the bat on the ball to do it.

That is the slope you start down with that thinking. I don't disagree that Rose was a great player, but he broke the (since what 1919?) cardinal rule of baseball. Plus he has lied about it for practically 30 years. There has to be some restitution paid by him. Exclusion from the Hall is the price he must pay, unless MLB wants to change their rules.

You show me proof that betting on baseball somehow helped him get over 4000 hits and I won't think he belongs. There's a difference in having inflated numbers from cheating and breaking conduct rules. What he did was inexcusable. He should absolutely be banned from participating in baseball. However, what he did does not take away from what he accomplished in the least bit. It did not help him get a single one of those hits. He earned a spot in the HoF with his play, he earned a spot out of baseball with his conduct.

And he is paying a price. He was banned from the game of baseball. Banned from the sport he'd made his living on.

[jrulz83]

You show me proof that betting on baseball somehow helped him get over 4000 hits and I won't think he belongs. There's a difference in having inflated numbers from cheating and breaking conduct rules. What he did was inexcusable. He should absolutely be banned from participating in baseball. However, what he did does not take away from what he accomplished in the least bit. It did not help him get a single one of those hits. He earned a spot in the HoF with his play, he earned a spot out of baseball with his conduct.

And he is paying a price. He was banned from the game of baseball. Banned from the sport he'd made his living on.

Maybe it gave him an edge that other people lacked because he had money riding on it, there's no real way to know if it affected his play.

If a rule has a penalty attached to it and you choose not to enforce it, why have any rules at all? And you cannot selectively enforce certain rules. Rule and order doesn't work that way. What is good for the goose has to be good for the gander as well or the enforcer of the rule has lost his mandate.

[EastexHawg]

If they reverse this decision, what's to stop future players/managers for doing the same thing?

The fact that they would be immediately fired and permanently banned from playing or managing in the big leagues again.

Unless something has changed in recent years the Baseball Hall of Fame is owned by private, non-profit interests and not Major League Baseball.  Why would a ban on playing or managing in MLB necessarily have to apply to Hall membership?

[clutch]

Maybe it gave him an edge that other people lacked because he had money riding on it, there's no real way to know if it affected his play.

If a rule has a penalty attached to it and you choose not to enforce it, why have any rules at all? And you cannot selectively enforce certain rules. Rule and order doesn't work that way. What is good for the goose has to be good for the gander as well or the enforcer of the rule has lost his mandate.

The MLB doesn't own the HoF do they? Violating an MLB rule shouldn't be automatic ban from HoF. That should be up to the HoF. Banishment from the game and exclusion from HoF should be looked at separately.

And there's no way you'll ever convince me that betting gave him any unfair advantage playing wise.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this. I don't even like Rose. I think what he did absolutely deserves banishment from ever being involved in baseball again. I do however recognize that what he did was HoF worthy. He's never been proven to have done anything that impacted his on the field performance and boosted his numbers.

[jrulz83]

From Wikipedia:

Following the banning of Pete Rose from MLB, the selection rules for the Baseball Hall of Fame were modified to prevent the induction of anyone on Baseball's permanent suspension list, such as Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum

So, get the Hall to change their rules and Rose is in.

[McKdaddy]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13136055/pete-rose-belongs-hall-fame

I generally respect Stark's opinion. I find myself straddling the fence, w/ a lean towards keeping him out.

[EastexHawg]

Good to see Shoeless Joe Jackson is still on MLB's permanent suspension list.  I wouldn't want to see some rogue owner sign him to a contract as a publicity stunt. 

[clutch]

From Wikipedia:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum

So, get the Hall to change their rules and Rose is in.

They should. All the Hall should be concerned with is numbers and whether or not those numbers are legit. If they are, whatever else the player did shouldn't matter to them.

[onebadrubi]

Maybe it gave him an edge that other people lacked because he had money riding on it, there's no real way to know if it affected his play.

If a rule has a penalty attached to it and you choose not to enforce it, why have any rules at all? And you cannot selectively enforce certain rules. Rule and order doesn't work that way. What is good for the goose has to be good for the gander as well or the enforcer of the rule has lost his mandate.

Every guy has money riding on it when they step up to the plate.  If they don't work out they don't get a contract. 

If a pitcher can make the HOF and he's ever been caught with a substance on him during a game, its worse performance wise.

If a batter has ever been busted with an illegal bat, its performance enhancing his career directly related to stats and performance. 

If a guy has ever been found guilty of roids, he's enhancing his natural ability to perform the game. 

These are not the same as gambling.  IF all of the above aren't allowed then I have no leg to stand on in my discussion to put Pete in.  I cant agree with any punishment given, but my rebuttal is if he's not in then there are others that should not be allowed. 

[ErieHog]

Same as before;  keep him out forever.

[elvis26]

  I would p;ut pete in the hall of shame where he belongs!!!!!!!!! I hope he never gets in to the hall of fame!!!! he is a thug!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pigture perfect]

I don't hate the man or his stats. I just believe that if he does get in Shoeless Joe comes in the same class.

[Hogfaniam]

Did Pete Rose at anytime stand to profit from his team losing?