Dodgers still on fire!

[ChicoHog]

13 road victories in a row!  This is awesome!  Tough schedule coming up with St. Louis and Tampa Bay but I feel good about the team right now.  Puig might have hurt his wrist today but there is enough depth to cover.   Pitching has been great. 

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

13 road victories in a row!  This is awesome!  Tough schedule coming up with St. Louis and Tampa Bay but I feel good about the team right now.  Puig might have hurt his wrist today but there is enough depth to cover.   Pitching has been great.

As a cardinal fan, I think it is time for some of these streaks to come to an end.

[Ray Piggers]

Go Cardinals

[ChicoHog]

greinke vs wainwright tomorrow.  Should be a great game.  I give the Cards a slight edge with Wainwright and Dodgers missing Ramirez and probably Puig.  Actually I would be happy with a split in this 4 game series. Go blue!

[Pulled(PP)pork]

good to see my team return to where they belong, at the top.  I had my doubts about mattingly (damn yankee), but Puig is one of kind and as long as he and the pitching staff stay healthy, sky is the limit.


PP

[ucahogfan]

good to see my team return to where they belong, at the top.  I had my doubts about mattingly (damn yankee), but Puig is one of kind and as long as he and the pitching staff stay healthy, sky is the limit.


PP

Well, all that and a blank check to buy whoever they want.

[ChicoHog]

Well, all that and a blank check to buy whoever they want.

That does help and I hope they don't become the Yankees or the Red Sox of the National League in that respect.  I always loved teams who build through the farm system and good scouting.  Unfortunately LA is a "win now" type of town like most big cities located on the east or especially west coast.  too many transplants and not enough diehard loyal fans like me so the owners want to always grab attention and "win now" which sometimes cost them in the long run. 

I really was disappointed they signed Brian Wilson, ex-Giants closer, as I have always disliked him.  Of course I am a Giants hater but he is one of those "hey look at me" type guys who uses gimmicks like his stupid beard.  I hope he fails in the minors for the Dodgers and they never bring him up to the majors. 

[clutch]

That does help and I hope they don't become the Yankees or the Red Sox of the National League in that respect.   

Too late.

[ucahogfan]

That does help and I hope they don't become the Yankees or the Red Sox of the National League in that respect.  I always loved teams who build through the farm system and good scouting.  Unfortunately LA is a "win now" type of town like most big cities located on the east or especially west coast.  too many transplants and not enough diehard loyal fans like me so the owners want to always grab attention and "win now" which sometimes cost them in the long run. 

I really was disappointed they signed Brian Wilson, ex-Giants closer, as I have always disliked him.  Of course I am a Giants hater but he is one of those "hey look at me" type guys who uses gimmicks like his stupid beard.  I hope he fails in the minors for the Dodgers and they never bring him up to the majors.

Well, seeing as the Dodgers had the highest payroll ever entering the season, I think it is safe to assume that the Yankees and Red Sox have been passed.  A lot of the revenue comes from TV deals.  If I remember correctly, didn't the Dodgers get a 3 billion deal over 20 years?  That will help cover the payroll.

It is safe to assume that the Dodgers will pay Kershaw whatever he wants as well to lock him up long term.  He is still young enough to where 7-10 years makes a lot of sense and should get at least 25 million a year.

Before the antics of the Beard began, Wilson was a very good closer.  Hopefully he gets back to those roots and he will be a big help to any bullpen in the majors.

[clutch]

Well, seeing as the Dodgers had the highest payroll ever entering the season, I think it is safe to assume that the Yankees and Red Sox have been passed.  A lot of the revenue comes from TV deals.  If I remember correctly, didn't the Dodgers get a 3 billion deal over 20 years?  That will help cover the payroll.

It is safe to assume that the Dodgers will pay Kershaw whatever he wants as well to lock him up long term.  He is still young enough to where 7-10 years makes a lot of sense and should get at least 25 million a year.

Before the antics of the Beard began, Wilson was a very good closer.  Hopefully he gets back to those roots and he will be a big help to any bullpen in the majors.

I'd hate to pay any pitcher $25 mil a year for 10 years. Huge gamble. They are always one pitch away from their career being over.

[Baseball Hog]

Those massive contracts to pitchers almost never work out.  I'd never give a pitcher anything more than a 5 year deal at that type of $$$.

[ucahogfan]

I'd hate to pay any pitcher $25 mil a year for 10 years. Huge gamble. They are always one pitch away from their career being over.

Oh I fully agree.  Just saying if any pitcher has ever deserved it in this era it is Clayton Kershaw.  He is only 25 so the best is almost certainly ahead.  Let's just say the Dodgers give him 7 years and 200 million starting in 2014 when he is 26.  The Dodgers have the best pitcher in baseball locked up during his prime which is normally 28-32 for most pitchers.  If Grienke can get over 20 a year for one great year, Kershaw should get at least 28 a year for what he has done.

Here is a tweet I found which would be the amount of time since around the 2011 ASG:

Eric Stephen ‏@truebluela  12h 
Clayton Kershaw in his last 71 starts, covering 506⅔ innings, has a 2.03 ERA.

That is just sick.

[clutch]

Oh I fully agree.  Just saying if any pitcher has ever deserved it in this era it is Clayton Kershaw.  He is only 25 so the best is almost certainly ahead.  Let's just say the Dodgers give him 7 years and 200 million starting in 2014 when he is 26.  The Dodgers have the best pitcher in baseball locked up during his prime which is normally 28-32 for most pitchers.  If Grienke can get over 20 a year for one great year, Kershaw should get at least 28 a year for what he has done.

Here is a tweet I found which would be the amount of time since around the 2011 ASG:

Eric Stephen ‏@truebluela  12h 
Clayton Kershaw in his last 71 starts, covering 506⅔ innings, has a 2.03 ERA.

That is just sick.

Oh yeah, if anyone deserves it it's Kershaw for sure. Just saying if I were running a team I'd never give a pitcher a long term deal. We'd just be at the negotiating table again every 4-5 years. I'd still offer them high dollar deals, just not long term high dollar.

I like what the Giants did with Lincecom. After two Cy Youngs they still didn't sign him long term. They payed him a lot, but I think it was only like a 2-3 year deal. Can't really remember. They were nervous of injuries with him because of his throwing motion. Little did they know injuries wouldn't be the issue but instead he would just turn out to be not that good anymore.

[ucahogfan]

Oh yeah, if anyone deserves it it's Kershaw for sure. Just saying if I were running a team I'd never give a pitcher a long term deal. We'd just be at the negotiating table again every 4-5 years. I'd still offer them high dollar deals, just not long term high dollar.

I like what the Giants did with Lincecom. After two Cy Youngs they still didn't sign him long term. They payed him a lot, but I think it was only like a 2-3 year deal. Can't really remember. They were nervous of injuries with him because of his throwing motion. Little did they know injuries wouldn't be the issue but instead he would just turn out to be not that good anymore.

Completely agree that 5 years would be about the max to give a pitcher.  Just saying that Kershaw is going to get 7 years like CC, Verlander, and King Felix (and Barry Zito hahahaha) all did.  That seems to be the max a team is willing to give to a pitcher while position players get up to 10 years.

What really hurt Lincecum is he saw a considerable drop in velo.  He went from throwing 95 when he was winning Cy Youngs to just throwing 90 in the last couple of seasons.  Lincecum is actually the player who wanted the short deals.  Supposedly he turned down 5 years at around 100 million after 2011 and just signed one for 2 years at 40.5 million to get him eligible for free agency.  I don't think he gets more than 5 million a year on the FA market this summer and any team that gives him more is incompetent.  He probably cost himself 40 million or more in career earnings by not signing the 5 year deal.

[clutch]

Completely agree that 5 years would be about the max to give a pitcher.  Just saying that Kershaw is going to get 7 years like CC, Verlander, and King Felix (and Barry Zito hahahaha) all did.  That seems to be the max a team is willing to give to a pitcher while position players get up to 10 years.

What really hurt Lincecum is he saw a considerable drop in velo.  He went from throwing 95 when he was winning Cy Youngs to just throwing 90 in the last couple of seasons.  Lincecum is actually the player who wanted the short deals.  Supposedly he turned down 5 years at around 100 million after 2011 and just signed one for 2 years at 40.5 million to get him eligible for free agency.  I don't think he gets more than 5 million a year on the FA market this summer and any team that gives him more is incompetent.  He probably cost himself 40 million or more in career earnings by not signing the 5 year deal.

Yeah he screwed up there then for sure. I'm thinking he's not too far away from being a closer.

[Ray Piggers]

Too late.

Right?

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Well, all that and a blank check to buy whoever they want.

and how has that worked out for them? the yankees broke the mold with that


PP

[Pulled(PP)pork]

I'd hate to pay any pitcher $25 mil a year for 10 years. Huge gamble. They are always one pitch away from their career being over.

yup, reminds me of that ridiculous contract about 10yrs ago to Kevin Brown...including use of the corporate jet, stupid.


PP

[AirForceHog]

I know I may be in the minority in saying this but I can't stand listening to Vin Scully call a game. The Dodgers have been on here in Korea a lot (American Forces Network) and I just can't stand to watch the LA feed.

But back to the topic. The Dodgers do have some talent.

[ChicoHog]

Completely agree that 5 years would be about the max to give a pitcher.  Just saying that Kershaw is going to get 7 years like CC, Verlander, and King Felix (and Barry Zito hahahaha) all did.  That seems to be the max a team is willing to give to a pitcher while position players get up to 10 years.

What really hurt Lincecum is he saw a considerable drop in velo.  He went from throwing 95 when he was winning Cy Youngs to just throwing 90 in the last couple of seasons.  Lincecum is actually the player who wanted the short deals.  Supposedly he turned down 5 years at around 100 million after 2011 and just signed one for 2 years at 40.5 million to get him eligible for free agency.  I don't think he gets more than 5 million a year on the FA market this summer and any team that gives him more is incompetent.  He probably cost himself 40 million or more in career earnings by not signing the 5 year deal.

I'm with you guys on the contract deals.  Too bad it wasn't like football and thye got a signing bonus but contracts were not guaranteed.  Baseball has the best deals favoring the players of any major sport. 

Lincecum will still get 10m a year from someone I bet.  He is not that bad.  I was in San Diego attending a wedding and saw the no-hitter he threw at PetCo Park.  Great ballpark BTW.  He pitched well last time out also.  Velocity is down but location and too many walks have really hurt him the most.   

[clutch]

I'm with you guys on the contract deals.  Too bad it wasn't like football and thye got a signing bonus but contracts were not guaranteed.  Baseball has the best deals favoring the players of any major sport. 

Lincecum will still get 10m a year from someone I bet.  He is not that bad.  I was in San Diego attending a wedding and saw the no-hitter he threw at PetCo Park.  Great ballpark BTW.  He pitched well last time out also.  Velocity is down but location and too many walks have really hurt him the most.   

I don't see him getting 10M a year from anyone. He's got a 4.43 era, a 1.33 WHIP, and a -.7 WAR. It would be one thing if it was just this season, but he was even worse last season. Two pretty similar bad years in a row so I don't see him getting that kind of cash.

He has looked good at times this year, but they are few and far between. He comes out and throws a great game and then throws 4-5 really bad games. Like you said, it's the walks that are killing him.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

don't derail this into some damn Giants thread, gay fockers!


PP

[clutch]

don't derail this into some damn Giants thread, gay fockers!


PP

This thread is already about the NL West, full of fail. It's all about the Central!

[Pulled(PP)pork]

This thread is already about the NL West, full of fail. It's all about the Central!

well, we were the last to win it all, but who's countin?


PP

[ucahogfan]

I don't see him getting 10M a year from anyone. He's got a 4.43 era, a 1.33 WHIP, and a -.7 WAR. It would be one thing if it was just this season, but he was even worse last season. Two pretty similar bad years in a row so I don't see him getting that kind of cash.

He has looked good at times this year, but they are few and far between. He comes out and throws a great game and then throws 4-5 really bad games. Like you said, it's the walks that are killing him.

His walk rate really spiked last year to a career high 4.4 BB/9 IP.  His career average is 3.5 BB/9 IP and only once in his career has it been below 3.2 BB/9 IP.  His K rate was over 10 K/9 IP, but has dropped down to just over 9 K/9 IP when his ERA went up.  That is almost certainly due to the drop in velo, but I would have thought the K rate would have been a lot less.

What has hurt Lincecum the most is the HR rate has doubled in the last couple of years compared to where it was when he was winning the Cy Youngs.  Considering he plays at AT&T Park which is one of the most pitcher friendly environments in baseball, that is very alarming.  According to ESPN Park Factors, it is the 3rd most pitcher friendly park this season only ahead of Petco Park and Dodger Stadium which are two other parks he probably pitches at a lot.

He has started 22 games this season for the Giants:

11 at AT&T Park (3rd most pitcher friendly park)
2 at Petco Park (2nd most pitcher friendly park)
2 at Dodger Stadium (most pitcher friendly park)
1 at PNC Park (4th most pitcher friendly park)

By comparison, he are the starts he has thrown at a top 5 hitter friendly park this year:

1 at Wrigley Field (most hitter friendly park)
1 at Coors Field (3rd most hitter friendly park)
1 at Great American Ballpark (4th most hitter friendly park)

Point being, Lincecum has spent most of his time in pitcher friendly parks this year and his numbers aren't great.  With about 70% of his starts being in extreme pitcher friendly environments, his numbers are very alarming and don't warrant 10 million/year.

In fact, looking into the numbers deeper, I would avoid signing him all together because the numbers indicate that he won't get better and has almost certainly moved past his prime.

[clutch]

well, we were the last to win it all, but who's countin?


PP

I thought we were talking about the current season.

[clutch]

His walk rate really spiked last year to a career high 4.4 BB/9 IP.  His career average is 3.5 BB/9 IP and only once in his career has it been below 3.2 BB/9 IP.  His K rate was over 10 K/9 IP, but has dropped down to just over 9 K/9 IP when his ERA went up.  That is almost certainly due to the drop in velo, but I would have thought the K rate would have been a lot less.

What has hurt Lincecum the most is the HR rate has doubled in the last couple of years compared to where it was when he was winning the Cy Youngs.  Considering he plays at AT&T Park which is one of the most pitcher friendly environments in baseball, that is very alarming.  According to ESPN Park Factors, it is the 3rd most pitcher friendly park this season only ahead of Petco Park and Dodger Stadium which are two other parks he probably pitches at a lot.

He has started 22 games this season for the Giants:

11 at AT&T Park (3rd most pitcher friendly park)
2 at Petco Park (2nd most pitcher friendly park)
2 at Dodger Stadium (most pitcher friendly park)
1 at PNC Park (4th most pitcher friendly park)

By comparison, he are the starts he has thrown at a top 5 hitter friendly park this year:

1 at Wrigley Field (most hitter friendly park)
1 at Coors Field (3rd most hitter friendly park)
1 at Great American Ballpark (4th most hitter friendly park)

Point being, Lincecum has spent most of his time in pitcher friendly parks this year and his numbers aren't great.  With about 70% of his starts being in extreme pitcher friendly environments, his numbers are very alarming and don't warrant 10 million/year.

In fact, looking into the numbers deeper, I would avoid signing him all together because the numbers indicate that he won't get better and has almost certainly moved past his prime.

I completely agree. No way I would sign him, at least not as a starter. I may pick him up for a bargain and put him in my bullpen if I had the option. That would be it though. I think his Cy Young days are long behind him, or even his decent years for that matter.

[ErieHog]

I'm with you guys on the contract deals.  Too bad it wasn't like football and thye got a signing bonus but contracts were not guaranteed.  Baseball has the best deals favoring the players of any major sport. 

Lincecum will still get 10m a year from someone I bet.  He is not that bad.  I was in San Diego attending a wedding and saw the no-hitter he threw at PetCo Park.  Great ballpark BTW.  He pitched well last time out also.  Velocity is down but location and too many walks have really hurt him the most.   

Lincecum is a $7 or 8 million a year value for most teams,  maybe $9 per for a San Diego or SF.  Knowing that, the Cubs may offer him $12 per.

[clutch]

Lincecum is a $7 or 8 million a year value for most teams,  maybe $9 per for a San Diego or SF.  Knowing that, the Cubs may offer him $12 per.

I think any team that gives him $7-8 mil a year is out of their minds.

[ErieHog]

I think any team that gives him $7-8 mil a year is out of their minds.

I think duration matters a lot.   I mean, it's not like there aren't a ton of guys who are mid range to back of the rotation starters now, that command that kind of money--  and I certainly wouldn't look to commit that much beyond 3 years with a team option for a 4th--  but there's value to be realized there, even if he only outperforms that contract for one season.

[Baseball Hog]

I think any team that gives him $7-8 mil a year is out of their minds.

I think almost any team would give him 8 mil for 3-4 years.  That would barely put him in the top 50 for pitchers salary-wise.

Yeah he may not be a top 50 pitcher now (debatable), but he brings tons of name recognition and the Cy Young potential.

[clutch]

I think almost any team would give him 8 mil for 3-4 years.  That would barely put him in the top 50 for pitchers salary-wise.

Yeah he may not be a top 50 pitcher now (debatable), but he brings tons of name recognition and the Cy Young potential.

You don't pay for what pitchers used to do, you pay for what they will do. Two horrible years in a row, I seriously doubt he gets $8 million a year. He's pitching like a #5 guy in the rotation at best. He may have a hard time even getting a team to take him as a starter.

[ErieHog]

You don't pay for what pitchers used to do, you pay for what they will do. Two horrible years in a row, I seriously doubt he gets $8 million a year. He's pitching like a #5 guy in the rotation at best. He may have a hard time even getting a team to take him as a starter.

There are plenty of big league 4s that struggle to have his current production level, let alone #5s.   

The league average ERA in the NL last year was pushing 4-- so yeah, he was worse than the league average--  there are about 95 starters in the MLB this year with 20 or so starts, and he's solidly in the low 70s in  ERA.

Look around the league at what 4s and 5s are getting -- and it's not paltry money, unless they're under their first contract.   No one blinks at paying a #4 $8 million a year

[ChicoHog]

Back to the original purpose of the thread.  Dodgers win again! 

[Ray Piggers]

Cards will earn the split tomorrow.

[Baseball Hog]

There are plenty of big league 4s that struggle to have his current production level, let alone #5s.   

The league average ERA in the NL last year was pushing 4-- so yeah, he was worse than the league average--  there are about 95 starters in the MLB this year with 20 or so starts, and he's solidly in the low 70s in  ERA.

Look around the league at what 4s and 5s are getting -- and it's not paltry money, unless they're under their first contract.   No one blinks at paying a #4 $8 million a year

Factor in the ticket and jersey sales and a top name like Lincecum is a no brainer at 8 mil in a GM's eyes.

[Oklahawg]

Kershaw might become the highest paid player in the game (okay, okay, hyperbole) after the season he is having. ERA under 2, WHIP under 1, and absolutely willing the Dodgers to win. Heck, he's won a couple of games for himself with the bat.

All of this is pretty amazing given that Kemp has been on the shelf much of the year.

[Scrambled Hog]

don't derail this into some damn Giants thread, gay fockers!


PP

Pipe down furball.

[ChicoHog]

giants finally won a game yesterday.  Congrats.  Dodgers still on fire and they didn't even play yesterday.  Time to sweep the phillies!

[ucahogfan]

Pipe down furball.

This has to be one of those Yankees have 27 rings type of comebacks.  History doesn't matter in 2013 which is why the Giants find themselves in last in the NL West below even the Padres.  The only team that has underachieved more this year is the Nats and that can be argued.

[Scrambled Hog]

This has to be one of those Yankees have 27 rings type of comebacks.  History doesn't matter in 2013 which is why the Giants find themselves in last in the NL West below even the Padres.  The only team that has underachieved more this year is the Nats and that can be argued.

Absolutely not... it's a 'Giants have 2 rings in 3 years' kind of comeback.

[ErieHog]

I think any team that gives him $7-8 mil a year is out of their minds.

I don't remember what I was watching, but someone mentioned that Lincecum got a 2 year $35 million dollar deal from the Giants.

I hope that he wears a ski mask to work every day.....

[acey33]

Go Cards

[ChicoHog]

I don't remember what I was watching, but someone mentioned that Lincecum got a 2 year $35 million dollar deal from the Giants.

I hope that he wears a ski mask to work every day.....

That was more than I even predicted 6 months ago.  You're right about the ski mask.

Go Dodgers!

[Baseball Hog]

The deal doesn't shock me too much.  He's getting overpaid but it's to be expected.  I mean, on paper he IS a sub 30 year old 2 time Cy young winner.

There have been guys to have a couple rough seasons and still have a hall of fame career.

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

I don't remember what I was watching, but someone mentioned that Lincecum got a 2 year $35 million dollar deal from the Giants.

I hope that he wears a ski mask to work every day.....

Close he wears a molestor mustache

[ChicoHog]

I think the west will be a two team race between the Dodgers and Giants.  Just the way things ought to be. 

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

Yep, but I think Giants pitching is just too weak to sustain an entire year to beat out the dodgers. 1-2 is great 3-5 rotation is on par with the worst in the majors.

[Baseball Hog]

Yep, but I think Giants pitching is just too weak to sustain an entire year to beat out the dodgers. 1-2 is great 3-5 rotation is on par with the worst in the majors.

Worst in the majors?  I don't like the Giants either but that's stupid.

[ChicoHog]

Worst in the majors?  I don't like the Giants either but that's stupid.

No kdding. Hudson has been fantastic so far.  Bumgarner is good, Cain is pretty good, Vogelsong not bad, Hudson pretty good and Lincecum is who knows?  Still a pretty decent rotation.