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The Identity Theft of Mitch Mustain

Started by Sed76, June 09, 2017, 11:55:28 am

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MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ChicoHog on June 26, 2017, 07:46:45 pm
And with the right QB it's hard to stop.  Obviously Newton was a one of a kind guy with his physical ability but Nick Marshall was maybe the best zone read guy I have ever seen.  With other guys it hasn't been so unstoppable.  If the QB is not a strong running threat it just doesn't work as good.  And the O line plays a huge factor of course also just like it does with any other offense. 

Newton could throw as well as run and a big body to boot. Marshall, more of a runner than a thrower. This year Gus is going to have Stidham, who is more of a thrower than a runner. At least they aren't going to have a Cam Newton type who can do both. They'll use the run (with Johnson and Pettway) to set up the passing where they have a lot of talent returning at WR. Better hope that losing their starting LT and LG has a profound negative effect on the productivity of their offense.
Go Hogs Go!

bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 11:09:37 am
There are a lot of people like you who minimize what Mustain did. In his first road start at Vanderbilt there's no way they win that game without him. In the 3rd quarter he lead them on a come from behind 90+ yards drive. D-Mac actually lost yards on that possession. Mustain completed two passes,one for a huge gain and another for a touchdown. There was pretty much nothing in between.

On the road at Auburn, which was top 5 at the time, they biltzed him early trying to break his confidence. With a linebacker in his face about to level him Mustain looped the ball out to Marcus Monk for a huge gain. Arkansas quickly scored and had the early lead. Later he executed perfectly the so called "woody" play. You have to see it in slow motion to see what Mustain does with his hands but he totally fooled Auburn's defense. After that D-Mac took over and Arkansas won easily. But don't tell me Mustain didn't do much in the game.

This was before Nutt went nuts on Mitch and the kid had some confidence. By the time they played Bama he was pretty much psyched out by Nutt's bizarre attitude toward him and yes he struggled. But when the game was on the line he made one hell of an adjustment, throwing the ball in overtime to Ben Cleveland instead of Damien Williams who was the intended target but was double covered. How many times do you suppose he did that very thing at Springdale High? Damien draws double coverage. Ben is open.

Still, the winning pass was a thread-the-needle thing that went between the hands of two other defenders. After the game that idiot Nutt had Mazhahn chew Mitch out for throwing to the wrong guy. If you want to know why I think Nutt was nuts, that's it. What a moron. The kid beats Bama and Nutt wants to give him a beatdown.

So don't tell me that it was all D-Mac, Felix and Peyton. You show your ignorance when you try to make that point.

I was at the Vanderbilt game and mentioned it frequently when the debate about Mustain vs. Dick was going on here in 2006 and 2007.  I was especially impressed with the pass Mustain threw to Monk where he looked off the defender and hit Monk in stride.  I said to myself at the time, "Self, we have ourselves a QB."  Thought the same thing on the TD in overtime to Ben Cleveland to beat Alabama.  What a clutch play!  Without Mustain, Arkansas would have lost both games, and we would have never made it to the SEC Championship game that year.

Your post here sheds some light on why Mustain's production fell off as the winning wore on.  To think that a head coach would torpedo his own young phenom QB and team defies common sense.  Yes, Mustain called Nutt a "dork" in front of a journalist he knew was writing a book where he was a key character (bad idea), and Nutt may have been justifiably concerned about Malzahn and his job security.  But still, why did he do what he did?  The answer may be better understood by those familiar with Nutt and his dad and brothers on the athletic fields and courts in Little Rock in the 70s.

At the time the Mustain abuse was going on, I was just mad.  But after a decade to reflect on it and watch Houston, Jr. fall apart publicly, I feel a bit sorry for him.  His dad, Houston, Sr.  was the quintessential Avatar Parent.  He played basketball for Adolph Rupp and Hank Iba.  He coached for 32 years at Arkansas School for the Deaf and was widely respected in Little Rock.  All of his sons were great athletes.  But Houston, Jr. was the best known.  Jr. was the Mitch Mustain of his day in Arkansas.  His dad used his position and relationships to promote his son in an era before elite camps and recruiting services.  Jr. himself did his part on the field at Little Rock Central at a time when Central ruled Arkansas high school football.  He had a lot of help from a lanky receiver named Robert Farrell. 

In the end, though, Jr. wasn't able to live up to his billing.  He was forced into action his freshman year (Broyles last as head coach) when Ron Calcagni went down with an injury.  He struggled, completing only 42.9% of his passes for 153 yards, no TDs, 2 INTs and a QB rating of 74.5.  He was a little better the next year under Lou Holtz in mop up duty, but Nutt was a pocket passer and didn't fit into Holtz veer offense.  It wasn't surprising that Jr. transferred to Oklahoma State.  But, much like Mustain, he never fulfilled the high expectations placed upon him by the media.

I believe no one had higher expectations for Jr. than his dad.  Sr. was and still is highly respected in Little Rock circles.  However, some of those who played for him when he coached youth sports may not remember him so fondly.  Sr. could be very hard on his players.  I suspect he was that much harder on his boys. 

If Jr. did have a tendency to keep his QBs from performing to their potential, maybe it was because he never felt he lived up to his dad's expectations.  That's a hard thing for a first son to reconcile over time, especially one whose father and brothers were as visible as HDN's.     
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

WilsonHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 27, 2017, 10:16:46 am
I was at the Vanderbilt game and mentioned it frequently when the debate about Mustain vs. Dick was going on here in 2006 and 2007.  I was especially impressed with the pass Mustain threw to Monk where he looked off the defender and hit Monk in stride.  I said to myself at the time, "Self, we have ourselves a QB."  Thought the same thing on the TD in overtime to Ben Cleveland to beat Alabama.  What a clutch play!  Without Mustain, Arkansas would have lost both games, and we would have never made it to the SEC Championship game that year.

Your post here sheds some light on why Mustain's production fell off as the winning wore on.  To think that a head coach would torpedo his own young phenom QB and team defies common sense.  Yes, Mustain called Nutt a "dork" in front of a journalist he knew was writing a book where he was a key character (bad idea), and Nutt may have been justifiably concerned about Malzahn and his job security.  But still, why did he do what he did?  The answer may be better understood by those familiar with Nutt and his dad and brothers on the athletic fields and courts in Little Rock in the 70s.

At the time the Mustain abuse was going on, I was just mad.  But after a decade to reflect on it and watch Houston, Jr. fall apart publicly, I feel a bit sorry for him.  His dad, Houston, Sr.  was the quintessential Avatar Parent.  He played basketball for Adolph Rupp and Hank Iba.  He coached for 32 years at Arkansas School for the Deaf and was widely respected in Little Rock.  All of his sons were great athletes.  But Houston, Jr. was the best known.  Jr. was the Mitch Mustain of his day in Arkansas.  His dad used his position and relationships to promote his son in an era before elite camps and recruiting services.  Jr. himself did his part on the field at Little Rock Central at a time when Central ruled Arkansas high school football.  He had a lot of help from a lanky receiver named Robert Farrell. 

In the end, though, Jr. wasn't able to live up to his billing.  He was forced into action his freshman year (Broyles last as head coach) when Ron Calcagni went down with an injury.  He struggled, completing only 42.9% of his passes for 153 yards, no TDs, 2 INTs and a QB rating of 74.5.  He was a little better the next year under Lou Holtz in mop up duty, but Nutt was a pocket passer and didn't fit into Holtz veer offense.  It wasn't surprising that Jr. transferred to Oklahoma State.  But, much like Mustain, he never fulfilled the high expectations placed upon him by the media.

I believe no one had higher expectations for Jr. than his dad.  Sr. was and still is highly respected in Little Rock circles.  However, some of those who played for him when he coached youth sports may not remember him so fondly.  Sr. could be very hard on his players.  I suspect he was that much harder on his boys. 

If Jr. did have a tendency to keep his QBs from performing to their potential, maybe it was because he never felt he lived up to his dad's expectations.  That's a hard thing for a first son to reconcile over time, especially one whose father and brothers were as visible as HDN's.   

Good insight; provides a little bit of context and perspective. At the end of the day, perhaps HDN was a man who motivated and sold himself to levels in his profession that he was not emotionally able to deal with. His problem seems to be that underneath it all he had a nagging thought that maybe he just wasn't good enough.

go hogues

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 05:00:55 pm
I'm not revising anything. I deal with facts, not the off the cuff opinions sometimes thrown around on this board.

It's a fact that after a 50-14 loss at home to open the 2006 season Houston Nutt was close to being out of a job. The program had suffered back to back losing seasons. That team had no confidence after a second USC butt whipping in two seasons. In that game Felix Jones had 48 yards rushing. D-Mac had 42 and Hillis ended up with 16.

Playing in just two series Mustain was 4 of 6 for 47 yards and he scored a touchdown on a QB draw. The only other Razorback to score was Robert Johnson on a one yard run.

That's the beginning you referred to.

The next game was pretty much all D-Mac. A 20-0 win at home over Utah State. He had 184 yards rushing. Mitch was 9-17 for 119 yards in his first start.

Then came a road trip to Vanderbilt and the irony of that game is unbelievable. There were strong rumors that Frank sent a private plane to Nashville to fly Nutt back on if Arkansas lost, and they almost did. Nutt would be told he was out. He would not return with the team.

Mitch threw for 224 yards and three touchdowns that day. D-Mac and Felix did not score and combined for 149 yards rushing. There were two key possessions in the game.

In the 2nd quarter Arkansas was down 13-7 and needed a spark going into the dressing room at halftime. Mustain provided that spark with a 21 yard TD to Felix with 3 minutes to go. It was Arkansas 14, Vanderbilt 13 at the break.

Fast forward to 3:33 in the 3rd quarter. Arkansas was still up 14-13 and had the ball on its own 7. On 1st and 10 Jones was stopped for no gain. On the next play Mustain hooked up with Chris Houston for 42 yards to the Arkansas 49. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was stopped for no gain. On 2nd and 10 Mustain threw incomplete for D-Mac. On 3rd and 10 Mustain hit Monk on a 42 yard pass to the Vandy 11. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was thrown for a 3 yard loss. On 2nd and 13 Mustain hit Ben Cleveland for a 14 yard TD.

Arkansas went up 21-13 and went on to win the game 21-19.

Now tell me that the season began, started and ended with the running game. The fact is, Nutt kept his job largely because a freshman quarterback in his first SEC game (on the road) played his butt off. And what did the kid get for it? The next week Nutt started going weird on him. Would not talk to him directly. Used a third party to communicate with him. Did not look at him or speak to him in the hallways of the BAC.

That definitely affected him the next week against Bama. He threw for just 97 yards and was picked three times. But the whole offense struggled. D-Mac managed 112 yards on 25 carries and scored once. So did Mustain, on an 11 yard pass to Cleveland in the 2nd overtime which won the game.

Joe Kines was Bama's defensive coordinator. I knew him well. Anybody that knows Joe will tell you that he's a no BS straight shooter. He told me after the game that he had built his whole defensive game plan around trying to rattle Mustain.

I'm paraphrasing here because after ten and a half years I can't recall 100% the exact words he used but it was very close to something like this: It (Bama's game plan) worked. We had that kid turned inside out. We were coming at him from all directions. In that overtime I was totally confident. And then, out of nowhere, he jumped up and hit that pass. Do you know how well we had it covered? Sometimes when a kid makes a play like that you just have to tip your hat and say, 'Great job. You got us.'

Again, did D-Mac score the winning TD? Felix? Hillis? Michael Smith?

After a bye week the Hogs went next to Auburn which was ranked No. 2 in the nation at the time. Nutt was determined at this point to take Mustain out of the picture. You can draw your own conclusions as to why but the kid went to Auburn pretty much knowing that his time as the starter was coming to an end. Still he fueled the first touchdown of the game. With a blitzing linebacker his face he found Monk a micro second before he was sacked on a pass that was good for a 50 yard touchdown. Midway through the 3rd quarter the woody play took the air out of the Auburn crowd. It would be great if we remembered Reggie Fish for that play and not the fumbled punt against Florida.

Mustain himself would be the first to say that the running game was the strength of that team. But early in the season when that winning streak was developing Mustain had an important hand in getting it started.

Clear thinking fans have always asked themselves, how much better would that kid have been had Nutt encouraged him instead of playing mind games with him?

It seriously was the dumbest thing I've seen in 41 seasons covering this program.
Great post.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

Athog

Quote from: HoginMemphis on June 10, 2017, 10:35:37 am
This...nail on the head. We called Nutt the "quarterback killa" then for a reason. Nutt was vengeful and spiteful. He would want someone to fail so that he looked better short term, even if it was likely that would ultimately cause Nutt's own failure. Obviously any head coach would want his OC and his QB to do very well in order to win games. But Nutt was happy calling his own plays even if it meant not utilizing the best play caller on the coaching staff. And if Nutt didn't like Mustain, would not put it past him to help Mustain fail rather than help him succeed so Nutt could put in a player who would go along with Nutt's bs.

This has played out almost exactly as I would have predicted based on my opinion and impression of Nutt and my conclusion drawn back in 2006: Nutt failed at Arkansas, Nutt failed at Ole Miss, and since OM has been persona non grata in college football coaching circles. He cannot get anyone to hire him. And if anyone, including Mustain himself, thought Nutt or anyone on Nutt's Murray St Mafia staff was going to "develop" him, they did not know Nutt very well. Nutt was a failed QB in college and by 2006 was on his last leg at Arkansas.

I don't dispute the fact at all Nutt was a  quarterback killer. However, Mustain was not held back at USC and never saw the field. More he ran a distant 3 on the depth chart.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Athog on June 28, 2017, 06:41:39 pm
I don't dispute the fact at all Nutt was a  quarterback killer. However, Mustain was not held back at USC and never saw the field. More he ran a distant 3 on the depth chart.

You really need to read more of Mike Irwin's posts on this topic. The damage to Mustain was already done by the time he landed at USC.
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 28, 2017, 06:43:54 pm
You really need to read more of Mike Irwin's posts on this topic. The damage to Mustain was already done by the time he landed at USC.

He sat out a year so he had plenty of time to get over it. He just didn't live up to his 5* billing at USC.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Gonzo

Quote from: GuvHog on June 28, 2017, 07:46:50 pm
He sat out a year so he had plenty of time to get over it. He just didn't live up to his 5* billing at USC.

Have you been a 5* recruit who got worked over by his college coach? If not, then you have no idea what he "just" did or didn't.


Go Hogs!

LZH


Mike Irwin

Quote from: GuvHog on June 28, 2017, 07:46:50 pm
He sat out a year so he had plenty of time to get over it. He just didn't live up to his 5* billing at USC.
It was puzzling that Pete Carroll wanted Mustain at all. Supposedly he offered Mitch after Damien Williams urged him to do so. I do know that Mitch never fit Pete Carroll's image of a QB. He wanted a type A personality kid. The kind that would go out after practice and buy the offensive linemen dinner. Go to campus parties with his teammates. Make passionate speeches at pep rallies.

As I have previously stated, Mitch was a low key kid. He tended to develop a few close friendships and stick with them.


Also Carroll was suspicious after all the stories that Nutt had floated to other college coaches.  He told some of those close to him that he wondered when Beck Campbell was going to start trying to lobby him on behalf of her son.  That never happened. She talked to him briefly on a few occasions, just small talk, and that was it.

Finally I was told by a TV sportscaster working in LA that the culture at USC always favored quarterbacks from what he called "So Cal." He said to me, "I'm not saying that a kid from Arkansas couldn't be the quarterback here but he would have to be head and shoulders above the others to win the job."

The bottom line is Mitch screwed up twice. He never should have gone to Arkansas or USC. Tennessee was his best option. They wanted him bad. David Cutcliffe was the QBs coach there and he had a long conversation with Beck about how to develop a type B personality at that position. He'd done it before, he said. Mitch would not consider Tennessee because they almost always beat Arkansas when he was growing up and he didn't like them.

riccoar

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 26, 2017, 08:54:17 am
I think he backhanded it to him.  Turned left and handed it to him with his right hand, behind his back.  Very well executed.
Much like the wrap around delay to Felix against USC.  Smooth as hell

PonderinHog

Quote from: riccoar on June 29, 2017, 09:08:10 am
Much like the wrap around delay to Felix against USC.  Smooth as hell
What might have been...

So poorly handled by the "adults" in the room.   :-[

But if Mustain had stayed, would Mallett ever make it to town?

oldhawg

If Mustain had stayed, would it have mattered if Mallett came to Arkansas or not? 

Interesting to speculate.

 

go hogues

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 29, 2017, 08:53:35 am
It was puzzling that Pete Carroll wanted Mustain at all. Supposedly he offered Mitch after Damien Williams urged him to do so. I do know that Mitch never fit Pete Carroll's image of a QB. He wanted a type A personality kid. The kind that would go out after practice and buy the offensive linemen dinner. Go to campus parties with his teammates. Make passionate speeches at pep rallies.

As I have previously stated, Mitch was a low key kid. He tended to develop a few close friendships and stick with them.


Also Carroll was suspicious after all the stories that Nutt had floated to other college coaches.  He told some of those close to him that he wondered when Beck Campbell was going to start trying to lobby him on behalf of her son.  That never happened. She talked to him briefly on a few occasions, just small talk, and that was it.

Finally I was told by a TV sportscaster working in LA that the culture at USC always favored quarterbacks from what he called "So Cal." He said to me, "I'm not saying that a kid from Arkansas couldn't be the quarterback here but he would have to be head and shoulders above the others to win the job."

The bottom line is Mitch screwed up twice. He never should have gone to Arkansas or USC. Tennessee was his best option. They wanted him bad. David Cutcliffe was the QBs coach there and he had a long conversation with Beck about how to develop a type B personality at that position. He'd done it before, he said. Mitch would not consider Tennessee because they almost always beat Arkansas when he was growing up and he didn't like them.
That makes sense. I was living in LA at the time and everyone worshipped John David Booty - who was from Shreveport - but I'm pretty sure he was usurped by sophomore Mark Sanchez - a Mater Dei guy - the next year?

I was always curious if Carroll did it as a further show of force after dominating us twice in two years? "We kicked your butts twice AND stole the two most hyped players you've signed in years"
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

bphi11ips

Quote from: Athog on June 28, 2017, 06:41:39 pm
I don't dispute the fact at all Nutt was a  quarterback killer. However, Mustain was not held back at USC and never saw the field. More he ran a distant 3 on the depth chart.

This is not true. Mustain backed up Mark Sanchez and was second on the depth chart for most of 2008. He started 2009 3rd behind Matt Barkley and Aaron Corp but became the backup for the second half of the year after Corp had a bad game when Barkley was injured. Mustain was Barkley's backup the entire 2010 season and started against Notre Dame and played well. Ronald Johnson dropped a pass that probably would have won that game.

You also have to consider who Mustain was backing up. Mark Sanchez is from Southern California (see Mike Irwin's comment).  He was the number ranked QB coming out of high school. He led USC to a 12-1 record in 2008 and was picked 5th by the Jets in the 2009 draft. Matt Barkley is from Southern California. He played QB in high school at Mater Dei and was the Gatorade Player of the year after his junior season. He was ESPN's number one ranked recruit. He was ESPN's darling at USC.

Mustain's primary competition for backup was Aaron Corp. Corp is from Southern California, was named Player of the Year in Southern California, and was Rivals 3rd ranked QB in his class. He transferred to Richmond after the 2009 year with Barkley firmly established as the starter and Mustain a solid number 2.

Just some context when considering that Mustain never became the starter at USC. He was anything but "distant third".  Like Mike said, he should have gone somewhere other than USC, where he had to compete with three local favorites who were just as decorated out if high school as he was.

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: go hogues on June 29, 2017, 09:45:45 am
That makes sense. I was living in LA at the time and everyone worshipped John David Booty - who was from Shreveport - but I'm pretty sure he was usurped by sophomore Mark Sanchez - a Mater Dei guy - the next year?

I was always curious if Carroll did it as a further show of force after dominating us twice in two years? "We kicked your butts twice AND stole the two most hyped players you've signed in years"

I've suspected Carroll did it out of spite.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 29, 2017, 09:22:24 am
What might have been...

So poorly handled by the "adults" in the room.   :-[

But if Mustain had stayed, would Mallett ever make it to town?

Probably not. Would we have been better off with a healthy program led by a head coach acting in the best interest of the team (i.e. - Nutt as we hoped he would be) led by Malzahn and Mustain for at least 3 years, or were we better off with Mallett and Petrino (and you may want to throw Joe Adams in there)?

I know I'd rather have seen it work out with Nutt, Malzahn and Mustain. The drama and damage to Mustain and the program itself have been devastating. Plus, I think we may have done as well or better than we did with Petrino and Mallett. 2006 could have ended much better. 2007 could have been awesome. So could 2008. Who knows?  Maybe Mallett would have transferred to Arkansas. Then we had Tyler Wilson. No Harley Gate. Malzahn may have moved on, or maybe he would have become head coach at Arkansas. Maybe Nutt would now be AD.

It's just a shame that egos and ambition destroyed what may have been some very special years for the Hogs.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Peter Porker

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 05:00:55 pm
I'm not revising anything. I deal with facts, not the off the cuff opinions sometimes thrown around on this board.

It's a fact that after a 50-14 loss at home to open the 2006 season Houston Nutt was close to being out of a job. The program had suffered back to back losing seasons. That team had no confidence after a second USC butt whipping in two seasons. In that game Felix Jones had 48 yards rushing. D-Mac had 42 and Hillis ended up with 16.

Playing in just two series Mustain was 4 of 6 for 47 yards and he scored a touchdown on a QB draw. The only other Razorback to score was Robert Johnson on a one yard run.

That's the beginning you referred to.

The next game was pretty much all D-Mac. A 20-0 win at home over Utah State. He had 184 yards rushing. Mitch was 9-17 for 119 yards in his first start.

Then came a road trip to Vanderbilt and the irony of that game is unbelievable. There were strong rumors that Frank sent a private plane to Nashville to fly Nutt back on if Arkansas lost, and they almost did. Nutt would be told he was out. He would not return with the team.

Mitch threw for 224 yards and three touchdowns that day. D-Mac and Felix did not score and combined for 149 yards rushing. There were two key possessions in the game.

In the 2nd quarter Arkansas was down 13-7 and needed a spark going into the dressing room at halftime. Mustain provided that spark with a 21 yard TD to Felix with 3 minutes to go. It was Arkansas 14, Vanderbilt 13 at the break.

Fast forward to 3:33 in the 3rd quarter. Arkansas was still up 14-13 and had the ball on its own 7. On 1st and 10 Jones was stopped for no gain. On the next play Mustain hooked up with Chris Houston for 42 yards to the Arkansas 49. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was stopped for no gain. On 2nd and 10 Mustain threw incomplete for D-Mac. On 3rd and 10 Mustain hit Monk on a 42 yard pass to the Vandy 11. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was thrown for a 3 yard loss. On 2nd and 13 Mustain hit Ben Cleveland for a 14 yard TD.

Arkansas went up 21-13 and went on to win the game 21-19.

Now tell me that the season began, started and ended with the running game. The fact is, Nutt kept his job largely because a freshman quarterback in his first SEC game (on the road) played his butt off. And what did the kid get for it? The next week Nutt started going weird on him. Would not talk to him directly. Used a third party to communicate with him. Did not look at him or speak to him in the hallways of the BAC.

That definitely affected him the next week against Bama. He threw for just 97 yards and was picked three times. But the whole offense struggled. D-Mac managed 112 yards on 25 carries and scored once. So did Mustain, on an 11 yard pass to Cleveland in the 2nd overtime which won the game.

Joe Kines was Bama's defensive coordinator. I knew him well. Anybody that knows Joe will tell you that he's a no BS straight shooter. He told me after the game that he had built his whole defensive game plan around trying to rattle Mustain.

I'm paraphrasing here because after ten and a half years I can't recall 100% the exact words he used but it was very close to something like this: It (Bama's game plan) worked. We had that kid turned inside out. We were coming at him from all directions. In that overtime I was totally confident. And then, out of nowhere, he jumped up and hit that pass. Do you know how well we had it covered? Sometimes when a kid makes a play like that you just have to tip your hat and say, 'Great job. You got us.'

Again, did D-Mac score the winning TD? Felix? Hillis? Michael Smith?

After a bye week the Hogs went next to Auburn which was ranked No. 2 in the nation at the time. Nutt was determined at this point to take Mustain out of the picture. You can draw your own conclusions as to why but the kid went to Auburn pretty much knowing that his time as the starter was coming to an end. Still he fueled the first touchdown of the game. With a blitzing linebacker his face he found Monk a micro second before he was sacked on a pass that was good for a 50 yard touchdown. Midway through the 3rd quarter the woody play took the air out of the Auburn crowd. It would be great if we remembered Reggie Fish for that play and not the fumbled punt against Florida.

Mustain himself would be the first to say that the running game was the strength of that team. But early in the season when that winning streak was developing Mustain had an important hand in getting it started.

Clear thinking fans have always asked themselves, how much better would that kid have been had Nutt encouraged him instead of playing mind games with him?

It seriously was the dumbest thing I've seen in 41 seasons covering this program.

When did Chris Houston play offense?
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Peter Porker

Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

bphi11ips

The first TD in the Vandy video is the pass I've mentioned so many times here where Mustain froze the safety covering Monk with his eyes and a pump fake to give Monk separation. The commentator mentions it on the replay. I was at the game and this is the first time I've seen the replay.

The next video that pops up is highlights from the Bama OT win. How anyone can watch Mustain in these two games and not appreciate his potential is beyond me. These were the 3rd and 4th games of the season and the first two SEC games for a true freshman.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

GuvHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 29, 2017, 11:10:18 am
Probably not. Would we have been better off with a healthy program led by a head coach acting in the best interest of the team (i.e. - Nutt as we hoped he would be) led by Malzahn and Mustain for at least 3 years, or were we better off with Mallett and Petrino (and you may want to throw Joe Adams in there)?

I know I'd rather have seen it work out with Nutt, Malzahn and Mustain. The drama and damage to Mustain and the program itself have been devastating. Plus, I think we may have done as well or better than we did with Petrino and Mallett. 2006 could have ended much better. 2007 could have been awesome. So could 2008. Who knows?  Maybe Mallett would have transferred to Arkansas. Then we had Tyler Wilson. No Harley Gate. Malzahn may have moved on, or maybe he would have become head coach at Arkansas. Maybe Nutt would now be AD.

It's just a shame that egos and ambition destroyed what may have been some very special years for the Hogs.

Yes I think it would have mattered. I believe Mustain would have started in 2008 as a Junior had he stayed. The kid had potential but let's be honest here, Mallett could and did throw passes that Mustain could only dream of throwing. IMHO if Mustain had stayed and Mallet still transferred to Arkansas, Tyler Wilson would probably have played for Tulsa.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

bphi11ips

Quote from: GuvHog on June 29, 2017, 03:20:48 pm
Yes I think it would have mattered. I believe Mustain would have started in 2008 as a Junior had he stayed. The kid had potential but let's be honest here, Mallett could and did throw passes that Mustain could only dream of throwing. IMHO if Mustain had stayed and Mallet still transferred to Arkansas, Tyler Wilson would probably have played for Tulsa.

Mallett has one of the biggest arms you'll ever see, but there's more to QB than having a big arm. Both were incredibly good QBs with high football IQs and instincts. Mustain would have benefitted from a coach like Dan Enos, just like Mallett and Wilson benefitted from Petrino. Malzahn's talent seems to be more in using what he has in skilled players as a unit. QB development doesn't appear to be his specialty, but he knows how to build a multifaceted offense based upon zone reads, misdirection, RPOs, etc. Mustain would have been deadly in that type of offense.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Peter Porker on June 29, 2017, 11:50:43 am
When did Chris Houston play offense?
In the official play by play from that game Houston is listed as catching that pass. Clearly the Vandy SID staff screwed up. Watching the video it was London Crawford who made that catch. So good catch by you.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 29, 2017, 01:53:44 pm
The first TD in the Vandy video is the pass I've mentioned so many times here where Mustain froze the safety covering Monk with his eyes and a pump fake to give Monk separation. The commentator mentions it on the replay. I was at the game and this is the first time I've seen the replay.

The next video that pops up is highlights from the Bama OT win. How anyone can watch Mustain in these two games and not appreciate his potential is beyond me. These were the 3rd and 4th games of the season and the first two SEC games for a true freshman.
There is a remarkable difference between how he handled heavy pressure in that game and the Alabama and South Carolina games later on. You clearly see a true freshman who goes from young but confident to young with little confidence. He had just enough left to throw the winning TD against Alabama at the end of a bad game by him. Winning that game appeared to give him a bounce back bacause he played very well aginst Auburn.

To this day some believe he was set up in the South Carolina game where he was benched after an early interception.

 

bphi11ips

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 30, 2017, 12:19:29 am
If he could stop throwing the ball to the other team.

Please.  This red herring really smells after ten years. 

The same year, 2006, Matthew Stafford, also a true freshman and, along with Mustain, the highest rated QB in the 2006 signing class, threw 7 TDs to 13 INTs for Georgia while leading the Bulldogs to a 9-4 record.  The next two years Stafford threw 44 TDs to 20 INTs and led Georgia to a 21-5 record.  He then declared early and was the first overall pick of the 2009 draft.  Stafford is still with Detroit and is considered one of the top QBs in the NFL. He made the Pro Bowl in 2014 and has 187 career TDs to 108 INTs.  Stafford and Mustain had almost identical measurables out of high school, but Mustain was faster.

Mustain threw 10 TDs to 9 INTs during the seven game winning streak where he took substantially every snap.  His passer rating was 120.5, 11.5 points higher than Stafford's.  Why would a conservative, successful coach like Mark Richt go with a true freshman an entire season when he hadn't won less than ten games in five years while that freshman threw almost twice as many interceptions as touchdowns?  Because Richt knew Stafford gave him a shot at winning the SEC the next two or three years.  In other words, the difference was a stable head coach vs. a head case with personal insecurities.

In 2013, Brandon Allen threw 13 TDs and 10 INTs. His passer rating was 10 points lower than Mustain's in 2006.  He often looked like a deer in the headlights.  Bielema stuck with him.  The next two years BA threw 50 TDs and only 13 INTs. His 2015 passer rating was a phenomenal 166.5. 

If Houston Nutt had Mark Richt's and Bret Bielema's good sense, Mustain's numbers would have been much like Stafford's and Brandon Allen's in 2007 and 2008.  Further, Arkansas very well may have beaten LSU and Florida and played for a NC in 2006.  Who knows what 2007 might have looked like? We'll never know because our head coach burned his own team to the ground.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 08:24:59 am
To this day some believe he was set up in the South Carolina game where he was benched after an early interception.

Is the theory that Marcus Monk ran the wrong route intentionally on the interception?
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

woodhog14

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 30, 2017, 10:23:10 am
Is the theory that Marcus Monk ran the wrong route intentionally on the interception?

Yep. If anyone can find the video you can tell.

hogman64

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 30, 2017, 10:14:47 am
Please.  This red herring really smells after ten years. 

The same year, 2006, Matthew Stafford, also a true freshman and, along with Mustain, the highest rated QB in the 2006 signing class, threw 7 TDs to 13 INTs for Georgia while leading the Bulldogs to a 9-4 record.  The next two years Stafford threw 44 TDs to 20 INTs and led Georgia to a 21-5 record.  He then declared early and was the first overall pick of the 2009 draft.  Stafford is still with Detroit and is considered one of the top QBs in the NFL. He made the Pro Bowl in 2014 and has 187 career TDs to 108 INTs.  Stafford and Mustain had almost identical measurables out of high school, but Mustain was faster.

Mustain threw 10 TDs to 9 INTs during the seven game winning streak where he took substantially every snap.  His passer rating was 120.5, 11.5 points higher than Stafford's.  Why would a conservative, successful coach like Mark Richt go with a true freshman an entire season when he hadn't won less than ten games in five years while that freshman threw almost twice as many interceptions as touchdowns?  Because Richt knew Stafford gave him a shot at winning the SEC the next two or three years.  In other words, the difference was a stable head coach vs. a head case with personal insecurities.

In 2013, Brandon Allen threw 13 TDs and 10 INTs. His passer rating was 10 points lower than Mustain's in 2006.  He often looked like a deer in the headlights.  Bielema stuck with him.  The next two years BA threw 50 TDs and only 13 INTs. His 2015 passer rating was a phenomenal 166.5. 

If Houston Nutt had Mark Richt's and Bret Bielema's good sense, Mustain's numbers would have been much like Stafford's and Brandon Allen's in 2007 and 2008.  Further, Arkansas very well may have beaten LSU and Florida and played for a NC in 2006.  Who knows what 2007 might have looked like? We'll never know because our head coach burned his own team to the ground.

this post is spot on!

Mike Irwin

Ben Cleveland says that he stayed late at the Thursday practice before the South Carolina game. As he was leaving practice Nutt and Casey Dick were the only ones left besides him. He said as he walked by them he clearly heard Nutt say, "The first time Mitch screws up you're going in."

Of course Ben told Mitch.

As for being set up, yes some have said that Monk ran the wrong route on purpose. Mitch appeared to throw for a spot a few yards downfield from where Monk was. What made some suspicious was the half hearted attempt Monk made to catch the ball. He could not have caught it but he could have tipped it, perhaps preventing it from being picked off. I did ask Mitch about this after he left the team and he said there was nothing to Monk running the wrong route. He just overthrew the ball.

What some believe is that Nutt intentionally said what he said so that Cleveland would hear and tell Mitch. If he went into the game knowing that a mistake would cost him his job as the starting QB it certainly might cause him to overthink everything he did.

woodhog14

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 02:25:54 pm
Ben Cleveland says that he stayed late at the Thursday practice before the South Carolina game. As he was leaving practice Nutt and Casey Dick were the only ones left besides him. He said as he walked by them he clearly heard Nutt say, "The first time Mitch screws up you're going in."

Of course Ben told Mitch.

As for being set up, yes some have said that Monk ran the wrong route on purpose. Mitch appeared to throw for a spot a few yards downfield from where Monk was. What made some suspicious was the half hearted attempt Monk made to catch the ball. He could not have caught it but he could have tipped it, perhaps preventing it from being picked off. I did ask Mitch about this after he left the team and he said there was nothing to Monk running the wrong route. He just overthrew the ball.

What some believe is that Nutt intentionally said what he said so that Cleveland would hear and tell Mitch. If he went into the game knowing that a mistake would cost him his job as the starting QB it certainly might cause him to overthink everything he did.


Man, Nutt is an idiot. Mitch was never told by Nutt that he was benched. What a p**** Nutt was.

Has there ever been a head coach in the history of college football that was as insecure as him? It's ridiculous. I hate it that he was here for 10 years. I can't stand that man for what he did. Caught up in petty, petty stuff instead of worrying about trying to win an SEC and National Championship. Moron.

GuvHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 02:25:54 pm
Ben Cleveland says that he stayed late at the Thursday practice before the South Carolina game. As he was leaving practice Nutt and Casey Dick were the only ones left besides him. He said as he walked by them he clearly heard Nutt say, "The first time Mitch screws up you're going in."

Of course Ben told Mitch.

As for being set up, yes some have said that Monk ran the wrong route on purpose. Mitch appeared to throw for a spot a few yards downfield from where Monk was. What made some suspicious was the half hearted attempt Monk made to catch the ball. He could not have caught it but he could have tipped it, perhaps preventing it from being picked off. I did ask Mitch about this after he left the team and he said there was nothing to Monk running the wrong route. He just overthrew the ball.

What some believe is that Nutt intentionally said what he said so that Cleveland would hear and tell Mitch. If he went into the game knowing that a mistake would cost him his job as the starting QB it certainly might cause him to overthink everything he did.


I remember that play well because I was sitting in the middle of section 102 about half way up. After the play Mustain was frantically trying to explain to Gus what happened but Gus just shook his head very strongly and pointed with emphasis toward the bench. I felt bad for Mitch. I wasn't aware at the time, that Nutt had put Mustain on a short leash.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Mike Irwin

Quote from: GuvHog on June 30, 2017, 02:51:22 pm
I remember that play well because I was sitting in the middle of section 102 about half way up. After the play Mustain was frantically trying to explain to Gus what happened but Gus just shook his head very strongly and pointed with emphasis toward the bench. I felt bad for Mitch. I wasn't aware at the time, that Nutt had put Mustain on a short leash.
Just another reason why his mother has no use for Gus. She believes that he knew what was going to happen and did nothing to try to stop it. Gus looking out for himself.

It's not hard to figure out why the kid didn't go to Tulsa and did not accept Gus' offer to be a grad assistant at Auburn.

GuvHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 02:56:23 pm
Just another reason why his mother has no use for Gus. She believes that he knew what was going to happen and did nothing to try to stop it. Gus looking out for himself.

It's not hard to figure out why the kid didn't go to Tulsa and did not accept Gus' offer to be a grad assistant at Auburn.

No doubt about it, Gus wasn't the Saint in that era that some on here think he was.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

rhames

Quote from: GuvHog on June 30, 2017, 02:51:22 pm
I remember that play well because I was sitting in the middle of section 102 about half way up. After the play Mustain was frantically trying to explain to Gus what happened but Gus just shook his head very strongly and pointed with emphasis toward the bench. I felt bad for Mitch. I wasn't aware at the time, that Nutt had put Mustain on a short leash.


You were in South Carolina for that game?
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
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PonderinHog

Quote from: rhames on June 30, 2017, 03:14:52 pm
 

You were in South Carolina for that game?
I'd like to hear his answer.

GuvHog

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 30, 2017, 03:24:23 pm
I'd like to hear his answer.

I saw it on TV. My bad.

I do remember that play though.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MuskogeeHogFan

June 30, 2017, 05:10:39 pm #186 Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 05:31:18 pm by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 02:56:23 pm
Just another reason why his mother has no use for Gus. She believes that he knew what was going to happen and did nothing to try to stop it. Gus looking out for himself.

It's not hard to figure out why the kid didn't go to Tulsa and did not accept Gus' offer to be a grad assistant at Auburn.

I can understand, after all that went down, why he didn't go to Tulsa. But he would have sat out one year at Tulsa and really only played under Gus for one season and a season where Tulsa was absolutely on fire offensively.

I would guess that he couldn't bring himself to play the game for his own best interests going forward, despite what Gus had done. I can't blame him one bit, but Mustain might have benefited a great deal by being "the guy" in that offense and might have regained all of his confidence and more. He might certainly have been better off at Tulsa rather than being so far removed from home as he was at USC. Maybe it would have lent him greater stability to be closer to home?

Had he been there I would assume that he would have succeeded Paul Smith as the starter in 2008 and 2009 and Tulsa would never have seen 2 different starters the next two years in David Johnson and Texas transfer G. J. Kinne. Might have been a different story for Mustain, despite what Malzahn allowed to happen at Arkansas.

I just hate what that kid had to go through at the hands of adults with agendas. An unnecessarily wasted talent.
Go Hogs Go!

Mike Irwin

Today he is very much at peace with what happened. I get the impression that he doesn't care much for college football but the last time I checked he was working as an EMT in an emergency room of a children's hospital outside of Phoenix. He apparently likes helping out with kids. As a kid himself he spent a lot of time in the emergency room of the Springdale hospital. His mom says he was "accident prone."

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 30, 2017, 06:34:13 pm
Today he is very much at peace with what happened. I get the impression that he doesn't care much for college football but the last time I checked he was working as an EMT in an emergency room of a children's hospital outside of Phoenix. He apparently likes helping out with kids. As a kid himself he spent a lot of time in the emergency room of the Springdale hospital. His mom says he was "accident prone."

At least he is at peace with his situation and happy. Maybe he needs to go back to school and become a Pediatrician who specializes in Sports Medicine? No kidding, I mean seriously. Sounds like that would be a great place for him.
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 30, 2017, 06:42:22 pm
At least he is at peace with his situation and happy. Maybe he needs to go back to school and become a Pediatrician who specializes in Sports Medicine? No kidding, I mean seriously. Sounds like that would be a great place for him.

Yeah, it's really good to hear that he's at peace with his situation and has a life he enjoys. I wish him well there.
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McKdaddy

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factchecker

How anyone can take Nutt's side in this argument is beyond me:













WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

GuvHog

Quote from: factchecker on July 01, 2017, 10:53:05 pm
How anyone can take Nutt's side in this argument is beyond me:















I didn't realize that anyone HAD taken Nutt's side.   :o
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

bphi11ips

Quote from: GuvHog on July 02, 2017, 01:35:39 pm
I didn't realize that anyone HAD taken Nutt's side.   :o

You missed a couple of posts that were deleted for good reason, one of them being mine. 🙂
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

PonderinHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on July 02, 2017, 04:22:01 pm
You missed a couple of posts that were deleted for good reason, one of them being mine. 🙂
I liked it!  Clear, concise and grammatically correct.

McGloin

OMG can we put all this Mustain crap in the HDN time capsule and just frickin bury it?  Its been a decade people, time to move on.   

East Clintwood

Quote from: McGloin on July 02, 2017, 04:58:19 pm
OMG can we put all this Mustain crap in the HDN time capsule and just frickin bury it?  Its been a decade people, time to move on.   


It will rise from the grave if we don't keep stomping on it.
Any dog can be a seeing eye dog if you don't care where you're going.

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GuvHog

Quote from: McGloin on July 02, 2017, 04:58:19 pm
OMG can we put all this Mustain crap in the HDN time capsule and just frickin bury it?  Its been a decade people, time to move on.   

It's the middle of the summer for cryin' out loud. We gotta have something to talk about.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Hawg414

Quote from: McGloin on July 02, 2017, 04:58:19 pm
OMG can we put all this Mustain crap in the HDN time capsule and just frickin bury it?  Its been a decade people, time to move on.   


to each his own.  just so happens this is one of only about two threads on mmqb i am currently reading.

the beauty of message boards, with clearly titled topics........

rljjr

Quote from: McGloin on July 02, 2017, 04:58:19 pm
OMG can we put all this Mustain crap in the HDN time capsule and just frickin bury it?  Its been a decade people, time to move on.   

I actually enjoyed watching the documentary and wouldn't have known about it otherwise. I actually learned a few new facts that were merely message board chatter before.