Where's Porktatarian when you need him?

[The Boar War]

I imagine anyone is going to have some growing pains with this team. I certainly hope not but it's not like these guys are setting the world on fire.

I would be happy with incremental growth (even if the first year doesn't see us bowl eligible).

[Karma]

If he is getting offered the reported 6.5 million, that'll put him in the top 4. The top 4 coaches as of right now have an average buyout of 34.2 million dollars. The lowest is 27 million. Let that sink in.

Right. If Gus comes here, he is here as long as he wants to be because we can't politically or financially get rid of him.

[The Hawg Marshal]

The question for him is, how often does he want to feel that kind of heat? It appears he feels it pretty often.

Yeah , that's why I think he is probably torn right now. But most places where they have a chance to compete for championships are going to have high expectations like that. It's just a matter of what is most important to him. Again I think it will be interesting to see this play out, and I honestly have no idea what's going to happen.

[PorkRinds]

Do we want a guy to run here away from his job that he feels has too much pressure to win?

[jgphillips3]

Seriously, 15-20 yrs? The first time the guy had a 7-5 season followed by a losing record the masses will be calling for his head. The fan base of Arkansas continues to live in the glory days of the 60's and have a sense of instant entitlement with no patience to live through some bad times. It can be seen in this thread, "if we don't get plan A then let's move on to plan B or C". If we are going to demand excellence then we should be saying to hell with plan B and C. If the PTB can't get us plan A, then we need to demand new PTBs as well.

The whole "first time he is 7-5" business is just nonsense.  A down year is acceptable.  Continuing to lose games year after year that you shouldn't lose and showing no upward trajectory will get anybody fired.  You can see and feel if a team is improving under a coach or not.  One bad year is going to happen to everyone not named Nick Saban.  You want to see insanity, look at FSU and Jimbo Fisher's record.  Their fans calling for him to be gone after a NC and almost yearly double digit wins is insane.

[NashvilleHog]

The irony here is if he is hired, he will feel every bit as much pressure as he does at Auburn.  Expectations will be out of control for him and there is a sizable portion of the fan base that will be criticizing every move he makes. 

[WilsonHog]

For those that complained about Bret's buyout, you aren't going to like Gus's.

I figure we'll have to land in the neighborhood of $5.25 or 5.5 million a year, and the buyout will indeed be large.

[Grizzlyfan]

So the position here is that Gus reached out to stay ahead of the posse?  Not necessarily because he has "always wanted" the Arkansas job or because they want to come back to Arkansas?

[The Hawg Marshal]

So the position here is that Gus reached out to stay ahead of the posse?  Not necessarily because he has "always wanted" the Arkansas job or because they want to come back to Arkansas?

That's what it looks like to me, but that is only my opinion, I have no way to prove it.

[NashvilleHog]

So the position here is that Gus reached out to stay ahead of the posse?  Not necessarily because he has "always wanted" the Arkansas job or because they want to come back to Arkansas?

Irwin made it sound like he was tired of the "win or be fired" games.  Based on that, he wants to stay ahead of the posse.  That's him coming to us looking for an out.  We shouldn't pay more than we are paying for Bert, as a result. 

Malzahn is not worthy of a top-5 salary.  He's just not. 

[Grizzlyfan]

Irwin made it sound like he was tired of the "win or be fired" games.  Based on that, he wants to stay ahead of the posse.  That's him coming to us looking for an out.  We shouldn't pay more than we are paying for Bert, as a result. 

Malzahn is not worthy of a top-5 salary.  He's just not.

See I could certainly understand this.  And even more than that, getting death threats if you lose to Alabama.  It wouldn't be worth it to me.

[The Boar War]

So the position here is that Gus reached out to stay ahead of the posse?  Not necessarily because he has "always wanted" the Arkansas job or because they want to come back to Arkansas?

Possibly.  I think the story may be true but the reasoning is based on circumstantial evidence.  Might be true, might not but we infer that he want to leave Auburn because he doesn't want to play in several "win or get fired" games every year.

[riccoar]

Do we want a guy to run here away from his job that he feels has too much pressure to win?

If it was anybody but Auburn's coach, you would have a point.  9-2 and they say he loses the Iron Bowl he won't be back.  That's insane.  I can't think of another SEC school that would be thinking that way.  Well, maybe LSU.

[hawganatic]

I'm not saying it doesn't concern me (especially the 2015 year).  Then again I don't know much about the Auburn situation.  Was there a large influential group of upperclassmen in the 13-14 seasons who left?  I don't know. 

I do think it is disingenuous to talk about Malzahn as if he's an unproven coach.  You cant say a coach hasn't won big when he's one of six teams to make the national championship game during his tenure.  And you can't make a rational argument when the entire position is based on striking the best seasons and players from the record.

And he actually had one losing conference record in the seasons you provided.  In 2015 he went 2-6.  In 2014 and 2016 Auburn went 4-4 and 5-3 respectively.

So Chizik actually won a NC.  Do you think he's a great coach?  Would you want him as our head coach?  And I'm not necessarily trying to strike his best seasons.  You have to put things into context and not just look at the flat numbers.

Things I'm looking at with Malzahn;

1.  What happened in year 3 with the 2-6 season?  When a school consistently recruits in the top 10 there is no reason for this to happen.
2.  Why has he only won big when he's had a transfer QB?  He's never won more than 8 games in a season without.
3.  Believe he's never finished higher than 4th in the conference in offense.  Why is this?  For somebody who is supposedly an offensive genius, what is going on that 4th appears to be his ceiling in this area.
4.  If these are his consistent results, with a big year every four years (current pattern), what is the pattern going to be at Arkansas where he isn't working with top 10 talent?

I really don't have anything against the guy.  Think he can do very well when he has the pieces that he can plug in.  I'm just not seeing where he's ever really developed or built anything, which is probably what we need right now.

Beliema had a better overall resume than Malzahn has right now, if you just look at it on paper.  He never played for the NC, but overall he did better in his 7 seasons than Malzahn has done at Auburn.  How did that turn out?

I don't really know enough about Norvell to know if he'd be a good fit here, but I'd rather roll the dice with an unproven that has shown the potential over a coach that has mostly underachieved with the talent he's had available.

[hawganatic]

See I could certainly understand this.  And even more than that, getting death threats if you lose to Alabama.  It wouldn't be worth it to me.

Run away from a school where you get death threats, to a school where your truck gets torched if you don't win? 

Good logic...

[HF#1]

So Chizik actually won a NC.  Do you think he's a great coach?  Would you want him as our head coach?  And I'm not necessarily trying to strike his best seasons.  You have to put things into context and not just look at the flat numbers.

Things I'm looking at with Malzahn;

1.  What happened in year 3 with the 2-6 season?  When a school consistently recruits in the top 10 there is no reason for this to happen.
2.  Why has he only won big when he's had a transfer QB?  He's never won more than 8 games in a season without.
3.  Believe he's never finished higher than 4th in the conference in offense.  Why is this?  For somebody who is supposedly an offensive genius, what is going on that 4th appears to be his ceiling in this area.
4.  If these are his consistent results, with a big year every four years (current pattern), what is the pattern going to be at Arkansas where he isn't working with top 10 talent?

I really don't have anything against the guy.  Think he can do very well when he has the pieces that he can plug in.  I'm just not seeing where he's ever really developed or built anything, which is probably what we need right now.

Beliema had a better overall resume than Malzahn has right now, if you just look at it on paper.  He never played for the NC, but overall he did better in his 7 seasons than Malzahn has done at Auburn.  How did that turn out?

I don't really know enough about Norvell to know if he'd be a good fit here, but I'd rather roll the dice with an unproven that has shown the potential over a coach that has mostly underachieved with the talent he's had available.

I think the seasons Gus struggled were due in large part to the bust of Jeremy Johnson. Only in the mind of Arkansas fans could a guy who has contended for Championships as a head coach, recently, would be considered under achieving. I look at it the other way, it is amazing he was able to do what he did with White at QB. He just hasn't had all the pieces in place at the same time with the exception of his first season and this season. I think he is seeing the fruits of his recruiting now. He has studs all over the field and they are winning games. But let's focus on the two "bad" 7-8 win seasons.

[rljjr]

Run away from a school where you get death threats, to a school where your truck gets torched if you don't win? 

Good logic...

That's also a false narrative, but I'm sure you know that.

[East Clintwood]

I like how you left out two years of records to better make your case.

44–20 (24–15 SEC)  vs.  29–33 (11-28 SEC)

I know which one I would pick.

Nobody is disputing that Gus is a better coach than Bert.  Homer Simpson is a better coach than Bert.

What a lot of us feel is that there are  much better choices for us than Gus.  Gus, depending on who he brings for defense, will win at about the same level as Hootie and his Gus Bussers will make it extremely hard to get rid of him.

[The Boar War]

So Chizik actually won a NC.  Do you think he's a great coach?  Would you want him as our head coach?  And I'm not necessarily trying to strike his best seasons.  You have to put things into context and not just look at the flat numbers.

Things I'm looking at with Malzahn;

1.  What happened in year 3 with the 2-6 season?  When a school consistently recruits in the top 10 there is no reason for this to happen.
2.  Why has he only won big when he's had a transfer QB?  He's never won more than 8 games in a season without.
3.  Believe he's never finished higher than 4th in the conference in offense.  Why is this?  For somebody who is supposedly an offensive genius, what is going on that 4th appears to be his ceiling in this area.
4.  If these are his consistent results, with a big year every four years (current pattern), what is the pattern going to be at Arkansas where he isn't working with top 10 talent?

All good questions.  I'd like to see the answers myself.  I'm not Gus' agent.  I do think it's strange that we're looking at a coach who's been to the national championship game and currently has a team in the top 10 and saying "I don't think he can get it done".  The list of coaches that fit that description includes Saban, Dabo, Malzahn, Urban Meyer, and Brian Kelly.  Whether you like him or not that's pretty good company.

[Grizzlyfan]

Run away from a school where you get death threats, to a school where your truck gets torched if you don't win? 

Good logic...

I don't know what happened to BA's truck.  But I do know the level of craziness connected to Arkansas versus Auburn football is miniscule.

[d3maybe]

Gus - Auburn
12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Bielema - Wisconsin
12–1(7–1)
9–4(5–3)
7–6(3–5)
10–3(5–3)
11–2   (7–1)
11–3   (6–2)
8–5(4–4)

Wisconsin Ended up ranked 6 of the 7 years, with far far worse recruiting than Auburn. I understand that Gus's done his in the SECW which is different than the Big10 for sure, but Gus's recruiting ranking's should nullify or at least close that gap for the lack of schedule strength. I'm just saying it looks pretty dang similar to me. 

Why wouldn't everyone rather go with a Norvell, Campbell, Morris or a Venable(preferable) at least his defenses are proven against all levels of talent? One of these guys MIGHT end up being the next Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, or Petrino, but we KNOW Gus isn't based off results.  I think Gus is a good coach, I just don't think he is a great coach.  The Hogs need a great coach to get them to where they need to be.  The recent evidence of the Hogs past shows that a great coach CAN and a pretty good coach won't get it done.

[WilsonHog]

Gus - Auburn
12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Bielema - Wisconsin
12–1(7–1)
9–4(5–3)
7–6(3–5)
10–3(5–3)
11–2   (7–1)
11–3   (6–2)
8–5(4–4)

Wisconsin Ended up ranked 6 of the 7 years, with far far worse recruiting than Auburn. I understand that Gus's done his in the SECW which is different than the Big10 for sure, but Gus's recruiting ranking's should nullify or at least close that gap for the lack of schedule strength. I'm just saying it looks pretty dang similar to me. 

Why wouldn't everyone rather go with a Norvell, Campbell, Morris or a Venable(preferable) at least his defenses are proven against all levels of talent? One of these guys MIGHT end up being the next Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, or Petrino, but we KNOW Gus isn't based off results.  I think Gus is a good coach, I just don't think he is a great coach.  The Hogs need a great coach to get them to where they need to be.  The recent evidence of the Hogs past shows that a great coach CAN and a pretty good coach won't get it done.

Would you classify Norvell, Campbell, Morris, or Venables as "great" head coaches?

[d3maybe]

Not YET... but they have the upside potential to BE great. In other words they haven't proven they AREN'T great coaches yet... I think Gus HAS, and again, I don't have anything against him at all. He's just proven he is a good coach.. not great.

[hawganatic]

I think he is seeing the fruits of his recruiting now. He has studs all over the field and they are winning games.

That's the issue.  Auburn always has studs all over the field.  When you take into account the recruiting base and the Auburn booster's willingness to make sure they get that talent, they should be contending for a NC more years than not.  Not finishing with 8 wins or below most years.

I'm going to ask the question again, which nobody seems to want to answer.  If a coach is working with top 10 talent, and the majority of seasons he's not finishing with top 10 results, then where does the blame go?

[Seebs]

That's the issue.  Auburn always has studs all over the field.  When you take into account the recruiting base and the Auburn booster's willingness to make sure they get that talent, they should be contending for a NC more years than not.  Not finishing with 8 wins or below most years.

I'm going to ask the question again, which nobody seems to want to answer.  If a coach is working with top 10 talent, and the majority of seasons he's not finishing with top 10 results, then where does the blame go?

Apparently Marc Curles.

[Hog Pharm]

Ok top ten regularly. I left out years where he didn't underperform. You know, since that's what we were talking about.

I would say he's underperformed in one year. 8-4 in the SEC isn't a bad year even with top ten classes considering they have to play bama, LSU, A&M, Clemson, and even Ole Miss who have recruited at the same level. I'm not trying to defend Gus, I just think he's done better than he gets credit for. Winning the SEC, a Sugar Bowl appearance, and at least 6 conference wins this year is pretty good in a 5 year span.

[ipigsooie]

I think the seasons Gus struggled were due in large part to the bust of Jeremy Johnson. Only in the mind of Arkansas fans could a guy who has contended for Championships as a head coach, recently, would be considered under achieving. I look at it the other way, it is amazing he was able to do what he did with White at QB. He just hasn't had all the pieces in place at the same time with the exception of his first season and this season. I think he is seeing the fruits of his recruiting now. He has studs all over the field and they are winning games. But let's focus on the two "bad" 7-8 win seasons.

The problem is, the bad seasons are with quarterbacks that  gus has developed and recruited.  Sean white and Jeremy Johnson were  both Gus recruits and developed under Gus. Do you not remember the hype around Jeremy Johnson? Wasn't he a preseason heisman contender? So yes,  gus has had some good and bad seasons but the bad ones have been under his guys while the good ones were under someone else's guys.

[TX HOG]

Would you classify Norvell, Campbell, Morris, or Venables as "great" head coaches?

I'd say no but if my math is correct that's 8.6 wins a year with 10 ten recruiting classes. I feel that with our recruiting rankings the number of wins would  correlate to 6-7 wins-ish

[PorkRinds]

Would you classify Norvell, Campbell, Morris, or Venables as "great" head coaches?

Nope but they may prove themselves so. Gus has proven what he is...maybe average.

[TX HOG]

I feel like we already know what we'd get with Gus. 7 wins a year. I say we roll the dice. Norvell is cheaper and easier to get rid of if he's not successful. Roll the dice..!!! We already went the 'safe' winning coach route.

[TX HOG]

Nope but they may prove themselves so. Gus has proven what he is...maybe average.

Yep. Pretty much what I just said. Think this is very accurate

[The Boar War]

Gus' greatest blessing and curse is that his name is Gus Malzahn.

[hoghearted]

If I was the UofA, I would make Gus accept the job or reject it prior to the Iron Bowl.  Screw being second choice if everything works out down there.  You either want to be here or you want to be there.  Pick.

[Hou-Hog]

If I was the UofA, I would make Gus accept the job or reject it prior to the Iron Bowl.  Screw being second choice if everything works out down there.  You either want to be here or you want to be there.  Pick.

that is stupid and the exact reason I assume that you have no responsibility for hiring or firing at your work. 

[bphi11ips]

That's the issue.  Auburn always has studs all over the field.  When you take into account the recruiting base and the Auburn booster's willingness to make sure they get that talent, they should be contending for a NC more years than not.  Not finishing with 8 wins or below most years.

I'm going to ask the question again, which nobody seems to want to answer.  If a coach is working with top 10 talent, and the majority of seasons he's not finishing with top 10 results, then where does the blame go?

You and countless others here make the same rediculous argument.  Here's where it falls apart - when Malzahn took over at Auburn, Auburn's record vs. Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC was 10-10-1 - perfectly even.  If Auburn talent is so vastly superior, why were the teams even over 21 years?  We're not talking about ancient history or a small sample size.

I'll hang up and listen

[Justagp]

I hope no one will have a problem with me pulling for Auburn to win the Iron Bowl.  I want Gus on record turning Arkansas down.

I'm with you!

[onebadrubi]

I figure we'll have to land in the neighborhood of $5.25 or 5.5 million a year, and the buyout will indeed be large.

The ones that complained about the Bielema buyout will be the ones saying do whatever it takes to get gus here.  It's funny how it works like that

[Justagp]

I feel like we already know what we'd get with Gus. 7 wins a year. I say we roll the dice. Norvell is cheaper and easier to get rid of if he's not successful. Roll the dice..!!! We already went the 'safe' winning coach route.

Agree.

[HogCzar1]

Would you classify Norvell, Campbell, Morris, or Venables as "great" head coaches?

I might not classify these guys as great coaches yet....but might well classify them as more motivated, or "hungrier", than some other named coaches. And that is a feature I want in our new coach.

[The Hawg Marshal]

You and countless others here make the same rediculous argument.  Here's where it falls apart - when Malzahn took over at Auburn, Auburn's record vs. Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC was 10-10-1 - perfectly even.  If Auburn talent is so vastly superior, why were the teams even over 21 years?  We're not talking about ancient history or a small sample size.

I'll hang up and listen

Could part of it be who Arkansas's coach is?

[bphi11ips]

Could part of it be who Arkansas's coach is?

At what point in time?

Was Houston Nutt beating Tommy Tubberville with grossly inferior talent?

[LZH]

If there's any truth to the notion that Gus will have a say in who his AD here will/would be, we are probably in for several more weeks of this.