Ark vs Tenn recruiting

[Music City Hog]

Why can we not recruit like Tennessee?  Tennessee already had 9 four star commits with MANY more considering them. Tennessee high school football produces very little talent.  I bet Arkansas has at least as many prospects as Tennessee in state.  As a matter of fact, of Tenn's 18 commits, only 1 is from the state of Tennessee. 

I know Tenn has a better history of success than Arkansas, but recently they haven't been much better of a program that us.  They did win a national champ in 1998, but these kids were like 5 or 6 years old since then.  I doubt they remember that very well.

I can't understand how Tennessee can recruit so much better than Arkansas with a talent pool at home that is no better than ours?  It's annoying to see another 4 star stud commit to Tenn everyday.

[Brewerfan10]

Well for one. I think Tennesee was in the national spotlight moreso than us when these kids were growing up. Don't get me wrong, I think we have had as good of record over the past decade but the national exposure for them has always been there. You have guys like Vern Lundquist (sp) on CBS tugging them off every time they are on TV. Those are just my two cents.

[Beaverfever]

1.  Arkansas doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of notoriety that Tenn has.
2.  Kiffin is probably just a better recruiter than BP.  People won't like hearing it, but we didn't hire BP to start getting 5 star after 5 star.  His recruiting at LOU was always just good, never great.  Now once we start winning, the recruits will start falling in his lap and his personality, or lack there of, won't matter too much. 

[BigSexyHog]

Tenn has always been a good recruiting school.  Plus they have overall better tradition.  We will probably never rack up on the 5* or alot of 4* kids, but if we start winning they will come.

[Hawghiggs]

Also coach petrino doesn't go by a star system we do. He judges talent on how it will fit what he is trying to do. Alot of coaches go after players just because they are rated high not by how well they fit their system.

[prodigalhawg]

They are recruiting a lot of good defensive recruits.  I would think the inventor of the Tampa-2 defense has something to do with that.

[Music City Hog]

They are recruiting a lot of good defensive recruits.  I would think the inventor of the Tampa-2 defense has something to do with that.

9 four star recruits:  4 on D, 4 on O and 1 athlete.

Just feel like we should be able to compete with them on the recruiting trail a little better.

[return2glory]

You also have to consider the fact that Tennessee has one of the highest recruiting budgets in the nation.  I did a quick search and found some numbers from 2006-2007.  Tennessee spent more on recruiting than anyone else in the nation.  UT spent just over $2M ($250K more than 2nd place Notre Dame).  Arkansas spent $1.26M. 

[LRCentralTiger]

You can say what you want about Kiffin's staff but there are two recruiters that are as good as anybody in the country.  Orgeron and Gran are killer recruiters.  Ole Miss will find out just how good a recruiter O was once his class of recruits leave Ole Miss.  Gran was at Auburn when Ronnie Brown, Kenny Irons, Brandon Jacobs, Rudi Johnson and Carnell Williams went through the program.  Gran is bringing them in from South Florida.

A lot of the attention to the Tennessee program in past years is due to the players who went through the system and play/played in the NFL.  Manning, White, Mayo, Pickens, Haynesworth, Witten, and probably many more.  All big time players and Mayo looks to be a future star with the Pats. 

There is a disparity between Tennessee's record vs The Hog's record over the past 10 years is different by quite a bit.  These numbers include some bowls games.

Hogs recorde from 1999 - 2008  68 wins  53 losses
Tennessee from 1999 - 2008   85 wins  39 losses

We had 4 years we we 50% and below while Tennesse had 2.  1998 was not included in the totals but Tennessee was undefeated and we were 9 - 3.

[linze82]

tinnr went out and got got a staff taylor made for recruiting. this is expected. what's not known is if any of them(besides monty) can coach.

[The_Iceman]

I completely trust Petrino's evaluations.

If he feels a 3 star is worthy of a scholarship, I trust that player will be a big time contributor for us.

[LRCentralTiger]

Also coach petrino doesn't go by a star system we do. He judges talent on how it will fit what he is trying to do. Alot of coaches go after players just because they are rated high not by how well they fit their system.

Every coach in the country evaluates their own recruits.  Do you honestly think Petrino or any other coach would leave there future to Scout, Rivals, Davenport, Dawson, or Odus?  This is the bread and butter to successful coaching.  They may use a service to locate kids they have not heard of and take a look see approach.  Kiffin has been quoted as he only wants a certain type of QB.  He will not recruit a short QB or one who cannot make the throws required in college.  He turned down a 5 star kid who was too short that Fulmer recruited.  Petrino wants the big back.  Carroll 6'- 3"+ receivers that run like the wind.  Saban wants the huge D line kids you cannot move out.  These are only a few positions but they all recruit kids to fit their playing style.  There are probably times they needs certain kids and the field is weak or the best are taken.  Then they have to take what is available sometimes and see if it works out.

[LRCentralTiger]

tinnr went out and got got a staff taylor made for recruiting. this is expected. what's not known is if any of them(besides monty) can coach.

Have you heard of Eddi Gran (Auburn, running back galore)?  How about Lance Thompson (Saban's LB Coach at LSU and Bama)?  Jim Chaney (Drew Brees, Purdue coach and NFL)?  Orgeron (Not a head coach but one of the top D line coaches in the game).  Then add Monte for the icing.  Little Kiffin just needs to let these guys coach and recruit.

[Hawgvillain]

Also, please note Tennessee's proximity to the fertile recruiting grounds in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and even Alabama.  You can be in any of those states (except Florida) in less than 4 hours from Knoxville and even driving to the Sunshine state is about as far as driving into Louisiana from Fayetteville.

[Music City Hog]

Also, please note Tennessee's proximity to the fertile recruiting grounds in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and even Alabama.  You can be in any of those states (except Florida) in less than 4 hours from Knoxville and even driving to the Sunshine state is about as far as driving into Louisiana from Fayetteville.

They arent any closer to those states than Arkansas is to Texas, Oklahoma, Miss, Alabama, etc.

So if Ark and Tenn traded staffs today straight up (which I DONT want to do btw).  Our coaches go to knox and their staff come to Ark.    Would Tennessee still outrecruit Arkansas by such a wide margin.  Or would Kiffin and crew bring that talent to Fayetteville.

I am trying to determine if Tenn just has flat out better recruiters or if its the name and tradition and they would out recruit us regardless of the coaches.

[The Realist]

Tennessee coaches have a lot more swag than Arkansas coaches...that's something thee 18 year old kids relate to a little bit more and makes them believe in TN a little bit more than other up and coming teams.  Petrino is more calm and collected buiness style, which is not to say it doesn't work because it does for Petrino.  Kiffin is doing everything at TN the exact same way they built USC up, hell he even did away with pre game suit and tie and instead they were black warmups just like USC and get bussed in to the Vol Walk while shaking the buses, ala USC.  I have to admit he made a genius move by purposely playing 11 freshman and getting them the ball non-stop during the WKU game.  That's pretty much how they got Ted Meline yesterday.  Giovanni Bernard and about 4 other 4*s will be in town this weekend for them
TN's upgrades to Neyland Stadium are pretty impressive too. By far the best luxury boxes in the SEC now. Locker room and the outside of the stadium got a complete remodel along with a huge HD video board

http://fishtrap.sslpowered.com/vols/other/vasf/club-seats/08-NSupdate.pdf
http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=97512  Pictures scroll on the right
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff305/signguy42/tennesseeboardlight056.jpg  Video board

[mtownhog]

The UT staff is filled with great, proven recruiters, but I personally find it kinda fishy that they are getting such good recruiting classes since Kiffin arrived. Of all the prestigious programs that offered Bryce Brown I was a bit surprised that he chose Tennessee. I also find it very weird that Janzen Jackson (5 star defensive back from Lake Charles Louisiana) ended up signing with Tennessee after being committed to LSU for the past 11 months.

[hawgsav1]

Fulmer had a GIANT recruiting network set up for Tennessee.  For a state that is so talent poor, Fulmer was able to recruit nationally.  His relationship with HS coaches from Florida to California to Texas was nothing short of legendary.  Kiffin was able to benefit from the legacy and contacts and relationships that Fulmer left behind.  Also, as people have said, Kiffin made up a staff of good recruiters.  We will now see if they have what it takes to coach these kids.

Petrino was left with NOTHING from the former coach.  A broken relationship with Warren HS, Little Rock kids going out of state, and a toxic situation where many people were obsessing over losing Houston Nutt.  While Petrino has won most of the state over, he's had a much longer road than Lame Kiffin has had.

[The Realist]

Janzen Jackson's father took a job at Miami (Ohio) or somewhere in that region as a DB coach.  The rest of his family moved out of Louisiana and his father encouraged UT because of Monte Kiffin. 

Don't forget...Fulmer feels scorned by UT.  He has made several underhanded jabs at the new staff.  Kiffin's best network are his USC connections (Tyler Bray).  Most of the networks they have other than that run through Orgeron, Eddie Gran, and Lance Thompson.  Nobody from the old staff stayed and Fulmer actually started lamenting how hard it was to get kids out of Florida.  Just shows how the times kinda passed him by.  There have been plenty of comments by UT players similar to Arkansas player comparing how much better the new staff is compared to old.  Also, Fulmer was similar to Nutt in his in-state recruiting.  Barrett Jones (bama), Hightower at Bama, David Spurlock at FSU, Golden Tate at ND.  He really stopped recruiting in-state.  Bama and Ole Miss essentially took over the Memphis area.  Kiffin has started to rebuild that fence some but still far from secure. 

[LRCentralTiger]

The UT staff is filled with great, proven recruiters, but I personally find it kinda fishy that they are getting such good recruiting classes since Kiffin arrived. Of all the prestigious programs that offered Bryce Brown I was a bit surprised that he chose Tennessee. I also find it very weird that Janzen Jackson (5 star defensive back from Lake Charles Louisiana) ended up signing with Tennessee after being committed to LSU for the past 11 months.

I am sure Gran had a big hand in signing Brown.  Take a look at the backs he coached at Auburn will tell you he can recruit and coach backs.

From what I understand about Jackson that goes to ties to Tennessee after the Fulmer staff departed.  If Phil was still in town Jackson would be at LSU.  I am sure Eric Berry did not hurt.

[catfish07]

The UT staff is filled with great, proven recruiters, but I personally find it kinda fishy that they are getting such good recruiting classes since Kiffin arrived. Of all the prestigious programs that offered Bryce Brown I was a bit surprised that he chose Tennessee. I also find it very weird that Janzen Jackson (5 star defensive back from Lake Charles Louisiana) ended up signing with Tennessee after being committed to LSU for the past 11 months.

Nothing fishy, just good recruiting. We flip kids sometimes and hail our coaches as dynamite.

[3pigsinafountain]

Tennessee is getting what it paid for.  Their recruiting coordinator gets 600k/yr.  Their def. coordinator gets 1.2 mill/yr.  I'm not saying it is the money exactly, but rather the competence you can buy for that kind of money.

Monte was a great defensive coach when coaching here for Lou, and he hasn't gotten anything but better since.  Ed O. was a great recruiter for USC, then almost singlehandedly built the Ole Miss talent base, now he has Tenn. headed up talent wise.

That said, lets just see how good Petrino looks after a big winning season here.  With the offensive numbers we are putting up a lot of kids will notice.  The great recievers always know where the great QBs are,the great RBs pay attention to where the great linemen are, and vice versa, give us a chance to confirm those expectations and they will come.

[Music City Hog]

Has Arkansas ever landed a 5 star player from out of state?  I really dont know the answer to that, but Tennessee had 2 last year alone.  Maybe we can start to land 1 or 2 of these super recruiter assistants over the next few years to go along with Petrino's superior on field coaching ability.  Imagine the product Petrino would produce with top 5-10 classes.  WOW!!   Now we are talking championships!!

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

We were what, #18 in recruiting last year?  And that's coming off of a 5-7 season and some seriously embarrassing defeats.  Also, keep in mind that recruiting is a years long process.  You've got to be on these guys for a long time.   

All we need to do this year is look a lot more competitive on the field and go to a bowl game and then future recruits will have Arkansas on their list.  The improvement will be visible.  Tom Lemming stated that this summer that he had never heard so many recruits nationally listing Arkansas as a possible destination. 

When Petrino starts winning big-time, 2010!!!!, look for recruiting to elevate to another level.     

[ALLVOL]

We were what, #18 in recruiting last year?  And that's coming off of a 5-7 season and some seriously embarrassing defeats.  Also, keep in mind that recruiting is a years long process.  You've got to be on these guys for a long time.   

All we need to do this year is look a lot more competitive on the field and go to a bowl game and then future recruits will have Arkansas on their list.  The improvement will be visible.  Tom Lemming stated that this summer that he had never heard so many recruits nationally listing Arkansas as a possible destination. 

When Petrino starts winning big-time, 2010!!!!, look for recruiting to elevate to another level.    

UT was 5-7 last year also and Kiff had just over 2 months to recruit and they had a top ten class.

[Hawghiggs]

Every coach in the country evaluates their own recruits.  Do you honestly think Petrino or any other coach would leave there future to Scout, Rivals, Davenport, Dawson, or Odus?  This is the bread and butter to successful coaching. 

Didn't Miami just admit that they had used these services in their recruiting.

[hawgsav1]

Didn't Miami just admit that they had used these services in their recruitin.

Coaches use services all the time to get names of recruits and to try and pick out diamonds in the rough.  However, what the coaches DON'T do is trust those services' evaluations of the recruits. 

e.g. Garrick McGee may find a potential recruit from Oklahoma using Rivals database, but just because Rivals gave him a 5.5 ranking doesn't mean that Garrick McGee may think he's an average player.  McGee and staff will make their own evaluations.

[coach, my back hurts]

IMO, 2 things have to happen.  1) Success, and lots of it.  The big time recruits want conf championships and chances at a nat championship.  They wont waist their time on a team thats ceiling is 9-4.  Over the next 5/6 seasons, if we expect to have consecutive top 10/15 classes, we are going to have to win the SEC and have at least 3 seasons of 10 or 11 wins and finish in the top 20 each season.  Bama, UG, UF, LSU and Tenn most likely will have those type of seasons over that same span.  Can we join them?

2) Players getting drafted and having success in the NFL.  When i think of a player that gets drafted high and has early success in the NFL, i think that player had very good development and tutiledge in college.  HS kids will see this and know that if they feel they have any type of talent that their college coach will develope that talent into NFL talent. 

Mallett has the talent to be a 1st rounder and most likely will be based off talent, but Matt Jones was a 1st rounder as well.  Matt Jones being a 1st rounder hasnt gotten us ONE single recruit.  If Mallett just gets drafted off potential, neither will he.  Mallett has to have success.  Recruits need to feel that he is not only getting drafted off potential, but also getting drafted because of his success at a very competitive level in college.  A player that is a 1st rounder and put up terrible numbers doesnt do anything for HS kids but tell them that their college coach couldnt do anything with that talent.  Nutt didnt much with MJones, imo.

If Mallett has a solid season this yr and has a great one next yr, (if he doesnt get taken this yr) i think the QB recruits will start taking alot more notice.  If Petrino can get Wilson or Mitchell in the NFL, the QB recruits will be salavating wanting to come here.  The same goes for all positions.  Dmac and Jones need to have success in the NFL.  Altho that will mainly only help dippsh!t at Ole Miss.  But the same goes for all positions.  We'll get good Olineman when we put a few in the NFL and they have success.  Same for Dlineman, LB's, DB's.

[Lakerhog]

It costs more for Kiffin to recruit if you get what I'm saying. 

[Hawghiggs]

Coaches use services all the time to get names of recruits and to try and pick out diamonds in the rough.  However, what the coaches DON'T do is trust those services' evaluations of the recruits. 

e.g. Garrick McGee may find a potential recruit from Oklahoma using Rivals database, but just because Rivals gave him a 5.5 ranking doesn't mean that Garrick McGee may think he's an average player.  McGee and staff will make their own evaluations.

I agree with what your saying but I read somewhere that miami was actually using them to do their evals on recruits and not sending coaches out to do their own evaluations

[bigdaddyhawg]

The SEC is where the big boys play folks.  Last year we had a class ranked as high as #15, but was no higher than #6 in the SEC.  That's a reality of life.  If you're gonna spend your life sweating recruiting rankings you're not gonna have many high points vs. UF, UGa, Bama, UT, LSU, etc.

The catch to this whole deal is this: 

1. A recruits stars don't always guarantee anything on the field.

2. As some have pointed out, player evaluations by a staff are key.

3. Issues like team chemistry actually do come into play, whether some want to admit it or not.

4. Character issues make a difference in building a winning team, as we've seen quite vividly re: our basketball team.

5. The players have to be coached and managed properly, and we take a back seat to no one in the SEC with that.

CBP can and will build a winner at the UA, regardless of how many recruiting rankings he loses to UT or LSU or whomever.  You're just going to have to live with the successes on the field.  If that's not enough for you, then I guess you've got a problem.

[hawgsav1]

I agree with what your saying but I read somewhere that miami was actually using them to do their evals on recruits and not sending coaches out to do their own evaluations

If that's the case they're being lazy.  Tommy Tuberville once did an interview where he discussed recruiting services.  He said that if the coaches want to get better recruits, they need to do their own evaluations and not go by the Rivals or Scout evals.  He said that it was pretty obvious when his assistants would not do their own evals and bring in something from Rivals and Scout.

[jackflash]

Never been concerned what other teams get.  Just what we do with what we get.

[The Hog]

Didn't Miami just admit that they had used these services in their recruiting.

You make it sound like Miami did something wrong when you use admit.  I think most schools use a service to identify possible players they may not otherwise know about.  There are a lot of players out there and a coaching staff cannot cover them all.  Miami does not have to send coaches very far to get top notch recruits.  They can stay within the state.

I doubt Miami will recruit a player solely based on what a recruiting services rates player.  It may help them identify possible prospects because the service rates them high and save them a trip.  That is all.  They have to see the kid play and more importantly make that personal contact all these recruits talk about.  Like family stuff.

If you see where the top 5 schools in the country have offered a kid you can probably assume this kid is definitely worth a look.

[Music City Hog]

You make it sound like Miami did something wrong when you use admit.  I think most schools use a service to identify possible players they may not otherwise know about.  There are a lot of players out there and a coaching staff cannot cover them all.  Miami does not have to send coaches very far to get top notch recruits.  They can stay within the state.

I doubt Miami will recruit a player solely based on what a recruiting services rates player.  It may help them identify possible prospects because the service rates them high and save them a trip.  That is all.  They have to see the kid play and more importantly make that personal contact all these recruits talk about.  Like family stuff.

If you see where the top 5 schools in the country have offered a kid you can probably assume this kid is definitely worth a look.

Every school in the country buys data from a company based out of Nashville about potential recruits.   

They do not use Rivals....lol

[LRCentralTiger]

Every school in the country buys data from a company based out of Nashville about potential recruits.   

They do not use Rivals....lol

Where the world did that post you quoted state anything about Rivals?  You can imply and read more into a post than anybody on the board.

I did refer to Rival, Scout, Davenport, etc in my post when referring to a previous post but the poster was clearly talking star ratings.  See my post.  Who does star rating?  Rivals and Scout.  You must be getting your post confused.  lol!   

[Music City Hog]

I wasnt referring that specific post.  I guess I just "quoted" it because it was the last one on the thread.  Should have just hit "reply" in general.  I just think it is halarious how some people think rivals.com is how coaches find recruits and decide who to offer.  That's all! 

[LRCentralTiger]

I wasnt referring that specific post.  I guess I just "quoted" it because it was the last one on the thread.  Should have just hit "reply" in general.  I just think it is halarious how some people think rivals.com is how coaches find recruits and decide who to offer.  That's all! 

Don't disagree at all with that statement.  That is why I posted my statements very carefully not to imply coaches rely on Rivals, Scout, and local gurus.  Can you imagine Petrino consulting with Otis Kirk.  Sorry Otis for getting your first name incorrect in my previous post.  Odus does sound better.

[Hawgvillain]

They arent any closer to those states than Arkansas is to Texas, Oklahoma, Miss, Alabama, etc.

Well, they aren't closer than Texas and Oklahoma - but South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, and Alabama are all closer to Knoxville than Alabama and Mississippi are to Fayetteville.  Take a look at this map of where NFL players come from and you will notice the different in recruiting base.  Not to mention, the added recent tradition, enormous home football stadium, significantly larger campus, etc.  I think we are headed in the right direction but until we start putting up big numbers on the field, we will have trouble recruiting on the level of the big boys.  Don't worry, BP is getting it done  :razorback: .



Here's the URL since it's tough to see:
http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/1014/134318.jpg

[bigdaddyhawg]

Tennessee should do well in recruiting, and also should do well on the field.  They've got a lot going for them.  As someone pointed out they throw a lot of money into recruiting, many times our budget.

And you've got to acknowledge the impact 107,000 bat sh$t crazy fans have on recruits.  (The fans are made insane by the constant playing of that horrible "rocky top" they have to endure.  That should be part of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques!  Terrorists would spill their guts after about 20 minutes of that crap.)

[LRCentralTiger]

Tennessee should do well in recruiting, and also should do well on the field.  They've got a lot going for them.  As someone pointed out they throw a lot of money into recruiting, many times our budget.

And you've got to acknowledge the impact 107,000 bat sh$t crazy fans have on recruits.  (The fans are made insane by the constant playing of that horrible "rocky top" they have to endure.  That should be part of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques!  Terrorists would spill their guts after about 20 minutes of that crap.)

I read a comment from the QB from Cali who attended last weeks game.  His words about the experience was "it is insane".  I can imagine the impression it would make of a huge stadium, crazy fans and a gun slinging coach.

[ml2200]

UT was 5-7 last year also and Kiff had just over 2 months to recruit and they had a top ten class.

Well, my bike is cooler than yours.

[Kevin]

trust coach petrino and his staff.  could care less about ratings.  i want players.  high ranking doesn't mean they getit done.

[wholehog92]

Kif is def getting highly rated players.  TN always has.  We were competitive with them with the dork on the sidelines.  I was thinking about our last two classes and I wouldn't call any of them busts really.  Think about the 10 years previous, apply your personal "bust filter" at year two of "development".  How do those classes do compared to this one?  It gives me a level of comfort that we have a good evaluator on our sideline.  He's finding the quick starters as well as guys with good frames and athletic ability for development.  I'm not worried about Tenner getting highly rated recruits as long as we are getting the recruits we are after regardless of rating.

[olemissbydamn]

You make it sound like Miami did something wrong when you use admit.  I think most schools use a service to identify possible players they may not otherwise know about.  There are a lot of players out there and a coaching staff cannot cover them all.  Miami does not have to send coaches very far to get top notch recruits.  They can stay within the state.

I doubt Miami will recruit a player solely based on what a recruiting services rates player.  It may help them identify possible prospects because the service rates them high and save them a trip.  That is all.  They have to see the kid play and more importantly make that personal contact all these recruits talk about.  Like family stuff.

If you see where the top 5 schools in the country have offered a kid you can probably assume this kid is definitely worth a look.

Here is the article. I had read it too.

By Shandel Richardson | Sentinel Staff Writer June 21, 2009

CORAL GABLES — Recruiting had become simple for the University of Miami football staff.

While counterparts were scouring the country for the next All-American, the Hurricanes' coaches likely were parked in front of a computer with a pad and pen. They surfed Internet recruiting sites in search of talent, almost forgetting their own evaluation in the process.

After following the advice of recruiting gurus helped lead to the program's recent decline, the Hurricanes have returned to trusting themselves when it comes to finding talent. Third-year coach Randy Shannon continues to emphasize strongly the idea of recruiting based on staff judgment instead of some Web site's rankings.

"That's accurate," UM recruiting coordinator Clint Hurtt said. "We spent way too much time recruiting off [Internet] lists and finding these top guys instead of truly evaluating. You can't just go off hearsay or just because Florida, Florida State or Alabama is recruiting him. That doesn't mean a thing."
Hurtt, also the defensive line coach, said the staff realized it was being burned too frequently by recruiting busts.

How else to explain a school once considered college football's top NFL factory having just one player — linebacker Spencer Adkins — taken in this year's draft? Although unfair to place all the blame on recruiting failures, it widely is considered the biggest factor in the decline.

"If you go back and you look at each class, I can go down the list and find some guys who were major recruits that never lived up to the billing," Hurtt said.

In the past six years, the Hurricanes signed top-20 players such as quarterback Kyle Wright, receiver Lance Leggett and tackle Reggie Youngblood. All had decent college careers, but never reached the expectations of their "can't-miss prospect" labels.

That's more that can be said about linebacker Willie Williams and running backs James Bryant and Charlie Jones, considered four-star or higher recruits. Williams was the nation's No.6 recruit in 2004, according to Rivals.com. After unspectacular performances, all three transferred.

ESPN recruiting analyst Tom Luginbill said the Hurricanes often were caught in the hype machine that occurs in the world of online recruiting. Many Web sites claim to rank the best players, but Luginbill said the moment coaches start paying attention to the "star system" is when "a program starts walking off a cliff."

"In my opinion, you've got to stay true to your own evaluation, your own blueprint," Luginbill said. "Don't worry about what everybody else is saying, but that's a very difficult thing to do. ... What happens is there is so much information out there about guys. Most of it can be untrue. A lot of it is perpetuated by people who are claiming to be recruiting analysts, but don't know if a football is pumped or stuffed."

UM learned the hard way.

Recruiting misfires factored into the Hurricanes going from playing for consecutive national titles after the 2001-02 seasons to a 19-19 record the past three seasons. Much of it occurred under Coach Larry Coker, who was fired after the 2006 season. The Hurricanes landed several highly rated recruiting classes under Coker, but even outsiders noticed they were focusing solely on recruiting sites.

"I used to go in the coaches' offices, and sometimes they would literally have Rivals.com up on their screen," said Matt Shodell, who covers UM and its recruiting for CaneSport.com. "I won't name the coaches, but they would be writing names down on pieces of paper. I don't know how much film they were looking at."

The Hurricanes have since turned to their eyes as the best evaluator of talent. Recruits commonly now say they have yet to receive a UM scholarship offer, because coaches haven't seen film.

Hurtt said the staff also avoids highlight tapes that often appear on recruiting sites. Even those can provide false hope.

"The big difference is we're evaluating game film now," Hurtt said. "A lot of times, it was highlight tapes, highlight tapes, highlight tapes. That could be just a big teaser for you. You watch it, and all of a sudden, people are geeked up. Then you find the actual game tape, and he doesn't know where he's going on the field and things like that. You find out things in the game film."

For the latest recruiting news, go to OrlandoSentinel.com/recruiting. Shandel Richardson can be reached at sdrichardson@sun-sentinel.com.
**

[The Hog]

Here is the article. I had read it too.

By Shandel Richardson | Sentinel Staff Writer June 21, 2009

CORAL GABLES — Recruiting had become simple for the University of Miami football staff.

While counterparts were scouring the country for the next All-American, the Hurricanes' coaches likely were parked in front of a computer with a pad and pen. They surfed Internet recruiting sites in search of talent, almost forgetting their own evaluation in the process.

After following the advice of recruiting gurus helped lead to the program's recent decline, the Hurricanes have returned to trusting themselves when it comes to finding talent. Third-year coach Randy Shannon continues to emphasize strongly the idea of recruiting based on staff judgment instead of some Web site's rankings.

"That's accurate," UM recruiting coordinator Clint Hurtt said. "We spent way too much time recruiting off [Internet] lists and finding these top guys instead of truly evaluating. You can't just go off hearsay or just because Florida, Florida State or Alabama is recruiting him. That doesn't mean a thing."
Hurtt, also the defensive line coach, said the staff realized it was being burned too frequently by recruiting busts.

How else to explain a school once considered college football's top NFL factory having just one player — linebacker Spencer Adkins — taken in this year's draft? Although unfair to place all the blame on recruiting failures, it widely is considered the biggest factor in the decline.

"If you go back and you look at each class, I can go down the list and find some guys who were major recruits that never lived up to the billing," Hurtt said.

In the past six years, the Hurricanes signed top-20 players such as quarterback Kyle Wright, receiver Lance Leggett and tackle Reggie Youngblood. All had decent college careers, but never reached the expectations of their "can't-miss prospect" labels.

That's more that can be said about linebacker Willie Williams and running backs James Bryant and Charlie Jones, considered four-star or higher recruits. Williams was the nation's No.6 recruit in 2004, according to Rivals.com. After unspectacular performances, all three transferred.

ESPN recruiting analyst Tom Luginbill said the Hurricanes often were caught in the hype machine that occurs in the world of online recruiting. Many Web sites claim to rank the best players, but Luginbill said the moment coaches start paying attention to the "star system" is when "a program starts walking off a cliff."

"In my opinion, you've got to stay true to your own evaluation, your own blueprint," Luginbill said. "Don't worry about what everybody else is saying, but that's a very difficult thing to do. ... What happens is there is so much information out there about guys. Most of it can be untrue. A lot of it is perpetuated by people who are claiming to be recruiting analysts, but don't know if a football is pumped or stuffed."

UM learned the hard way.

Recruiting misfires factored into the Hurricanes going from playing for consecutive national titles after the 2001-02 seasons to a 19-19 record the past three seasons. Much of it occurred under Coach Larry Coker, who was fired after the 2006 season. The Hurricanes landed several highly rated recruiting classes under Coker, but even outsiders noticed they were focusing solely on recruiting sites.

"I used to go in the coaches' offices, and sometimes they would literally have Rivals.com up on their screen," said Matt Shodell, who covers UM and its recruiting for CaneSpoSpam. "I won't name the coaches, but they would be writing names down on pieces of paper. I don't know how much film they were looking at."

The Hurricanes have since turned to their eyes as the best evaluator of talent. Recruits commonly now say they have yet to receive a UM scholarship offer, because coaches haven't seen film.

Hurtt said the staff also avoids highlight tapes that often appear on recruiting sites. Even those can provide false hope.

"The big difference is we're evaluating game film now," Hurtt said. "A lot of times, it was highlight tapes, highlight tapes, highlight tapes. That could be just a big teaser for you. You watch it, and all of a sudden, people are geeked up. Then you find the actual game tape, and he doesn't know where he's going on the field and things like that. You find out things in the game film."

For the latest recruiting news, go to OrlandoSentinel.com/recruiting. Shandel Richardson can be reached at sdrichardson@sun-sentinel.com.
**

Looks like I was incorrect but yet right.  Miami did use it, the poster's point, but found out it was garbage (like I indicated)i.  Plain and simple suicide and Miami found out by using the recruiting services route without verification.  They may identify recruits now but without the visual, it is not going to happen and with kids today you better have a set down and come to Jesus meeting to see how this kids mental faculties function.  Is he a hand grenade waiting to blow up your program or a good, hard working kid?

I can guarantee you Bobby Petrino will not go down that road or if he does, look out we will be headed to the gutter.  It is stupid to believe that a service can provide a better evaluation of a player than a coach or staff member.

[hawgsav1]

Looks like I was incorrect but yet right.  Miami did use it, the poster's point, but found out it was garbage (like I indicated)i.  Plain and simple suicide and Miami found out by using the recruiting services route without verification.  They may identify recruits now but without the visual, it is not going to happen and with kids today you better have a set down and come to Jesus meeting to see how this kids mental faculties function.  Is he a hand grenade waiting to blow up your program or a good, hard working kid?

I can guarantee you Bobby Petrino will not go down that road or if he does, look out we will be headed to the gutter.  It is stupid to believe that a service can provide a better evaluation of a player than a coach or staff member.

I think what needs to clarified is that there is a difference between using a recruiting service to FIND players vs. using it to evaluate players. 

To FIND a player, I think it is perfectly fine to use a recruiting service as ONE of the many tools a coach has (e.g. HS coaches, all star camps, hearsay, etc.).  A staff only has a limited number of coaches, GAs, and the like who are busy with on-field responsibilities as well.  They will use all the tools that they can get to get potential prospects for them to look at.  The issue is one of quantity.  Recruiting services have hundreds of folks like Dudley and Otis and the like looking out for potential D-IA talent.

What the article above (and others I have read) seem to indicate that the staff was not doing their homework on the recruits.  The Miami staff seemed to have become lazy.  Instead of using the recruiting services as one tool to FIND the recruits, they were using it to FIND recruits and then using the services' EVALUATIONS of recruits.  That is when it becomes a problem. Now it becomes a matter of quality.  Obviously, if you're a football coach, you know more than people like Otis and Dudley.  That's why it's important for coaches to do their own film-study/evaluations on recruits instead of just getting wowed by highlight reels.

[TNRazorbacker]

Well, they aren't closer than Texas and Oklahoma - but South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, and Alabama are all closer to Knoxville than Alabama and Mississippi are to Fayetteville.  Take a look at this map of where NFL players come from and you will notice the different in recruiting base.  Not to mention, the added recent tradition, enormous home football stadium, significantly larger campus, etc.  I think we are headed in the right direction but until we start putting up big numbers on the field, we will have trouble recruiting on the level of the big boys.  Don't worry, BP is getting it done  :razorback: .



Here's the URL since it's tough to see:
http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/1014/134318.jpg

I think how geography lines up with the conference boundaries makes recruiting more of a challenge for us as well. In the SWC days our recruiting base was mainly Texas. I think that hurts us in the SEC because Texas as well as most of the rest of the territory surrounding Fayetteville is Big 12 territory. Kids are more likely to go to a school they are familiar with and watch on TV growing up.

This doesn't mean recruiting is impossible though. Arkansas just needs to establish itself with some strong seasons and develop some long arms. Because of the geographic challenges Arkansas is always going to have to really beat the pavement out of state. UofA should also have Arkansas absolutely locked down, no excuse but a complete lack of effort not to. This was what frustrated me most about Nutts recruiting, or lack of.   

[The Hog]

I think what needs to clarified is that there is a difference between using a recruiting service to FIND players vs. using it to evaluate players. 

To FIND a player, I think it is perfectly fine to use a recruiting service as ONE of the many tools a coach has (e.g. HS coaches, all star camps, hearsay, etc.).  A staff only has a limited number of coaches, GAs, and the like who are busy with on-field responsibilities as well.  They will use all the tools that they can get to get potential prospects for them to look at.  The issue is one of quantity.  Recruiting services have hundreds of folks like Dudley and Otis and the like looking out for potential D-IA talent.

What the article above (and others I have read) seem to indicate that the staff was not doing their homework on the recruits.  The Miami staff seemed to have become lazy.  Instead of using the recruiting services as one tool to FIND the recruits, they were using it to FIND recruits and then using the services' EVALUATIONS of recruits.  That is when it becomes a problem. Now it becomes a matter of quality.  Obviously, if you're a football coach, you know more than people like Otis and Dudley.  That's why it's important for coaches to do their own film-study/evaluations on recruits instead of just getting wowed by highlight reels.

Your first sentence says it all.  No need to elaborate because it is the truth.

[Table Rocker]

UT was 5-7 last year also and Kiff had just over 2 months to recruit and they had a top ten class.

how old are you?