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Jevan Snead and Ole Miss

Started by Houston h, September 06, 2009, 09:00:10 pm

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Justifiable Hogicide

Quote from: NolanForAD on September 10, 2009, 04:30:39 pm
RebelBruiser,

Can you state that you are in no way personally associated with, or employed by, the Ole Miss coaching staff or the Ole Miss Athletic Department?
They (Nutt Family Posse) lie.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 10, 2009, 03:05:40 pm
I agree with you, but you use "specious" more than anyone else in the world.  :)

Carry on.

I do use it a lot with Rebelbruiser and a few others on here, because it succinctly describes many of his arguments.

specious - apparently good or right though lacking real merit
                pleasing to the eye but deceptive.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

 

The Hogfather

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on September 10, 2009, 08:23:12 pm
I do use it a lot with Rebelbruiser and a few others on here, because it succinctly describes many of his arguments.

specious - apparently good or right though lacking real merit
                pleasing to the eye but deceptive.

I know what it means.  The frequency is what I was getting at...

stronguard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 10, 2009, 02:55:43 pm
And yes my argument has everything to do with the original statement.  You asked why we didn't throw to the TE more.  I told you because our TE starter wasn't 100% and the two guys behind him were redshirt freshmen that aren't as trusted with the football as their older, more experienced counterparts at other skill positions.

I showed you that even at Florida, Meyer puts the hands most often in the hands of his older, more experienced players.  It would be nice to have Aaron Hernandez, and if we did, I'm sure we'd get the ball to the TE more, but we don't have Aaron Hernandez.

Two other things, 1) we don't always have a TE in on every play, and 2) our O-line is expected to struggle more with pass blocking this year than they did last year, which means we'll likely have to leave a TE or an extra back in the backfield this year to help with pass protection.
Last year we would often run routes with 4 or 5 receivers were in the pattern.  This year, you'll likely see more 3 and sometimes even 2 receiver routes to help out our O-line, or at least we'll be doing that more often than we did last year.  It's all about knowing your personnel and doing what it takes to make the offense go.  It doesn't help your QB to have 5 receivers in the route if he's on his back.  If your OL is going to have trouble, you may have to leave in an extra blocker or two.

If the OL proves it can handle the pass rush, we'll see more 4 and 5 receiver patterns later in the year.  And when Gerald Harris gets back to 100% healthy, we'll see him more involved in our passing offense in the pass routes.

And yes, 2 receiver routes can work if you use them primarily on running downs, and you use play action.  Snead hit Hodge right before halftime for about 30 yards on a 2 receiver route, because the defense was expecting run, and we ran play action, drawing in the defense leaving Hodge one on one.  And last year in the Egg Bowl, MSU thought we were going to run out the half with just about a minute to go.  We ran a play action pass with only 1 receiver in the route, and we hit Mike Wallace behind the defense for about a 70 yard TD pass.

Petrino did something similar to us on a 3rd and 1 last year.  I want to say it was DJ Williams in the pass route, but he ran a play action pass on 3rd and 1, and Williams was the only guy in the pattern.  It drew in the defense and Williams was open, but Dick overthrew him, and you punted.

Get used to this the more Markuson has his hands on your O-Line.
If you don't know, now you know.

Chief Idiot of the Tavern

"Woke" is a term made up by people who have appointed themselves as intellectually superior as a way to describe themselves in comparison with those whom they deem ignorant.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 10, 2009, 11:44:24 pm
I know what it means.  The frequency is what I was getting at...

I knew you did.  I was just wanting to take another shot at Rebelbruiser with it!!

;) ;) ;)
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

rebelbruiser

Quote from: NolanForAD on September 10, 2009, 04:30:39 pm
RebelBruiser,

Can you state that you are in no way personally associated with, or employed by, the Ole Miss coaching staff or the Ole Miss Athletic Department?

Yes, I've stated that many times.  I have no family member on the staff, no close friends on the staff.  The closest thing I have to knowing someone that even works for the athletic department is knowing of an older alum from my fraternity that works in the athletic department, and I haven't spoken to him since I was in school back during the Cutcliffe era.

As I said, I am friends with a booster that gets some inside information at times, but I have no connection to anyone in our athletic department at all.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: hognc2010 on September 10, 2009, 05:13:41 pm
Rebelbruisier

So you want to see HDN at his best  Well let me show you -
I want you to go and watch these two Uof A games
Go watch our 2005 and 2006 game against USC -
That is what you called spanked - Now second game notice PC doesn't speak to HDN  You know why - Prior to the game he made smart a** remarks - He knew he lied to the kids -

Well guess what  It won't be long before you sit thru a game like that and when it is over you will see he is NO TOP 5 coach.

He will never be that good. 

Watch the games and you can see he blew it here as that should of been the years his kids were there and no one elses.

I'm not asking for a Top 5 coach.  I'm just asking for a coach that can make my team competitive more often than not and give us a shot if the stars align to possibly end up with a great season.

If we did have a Top 5 coach, the only way we'd be able to keep him would be if that coach were an alum.  He'd eventually jump ship for an easier job with more pay.  That's what happens when you're not USC, Texas, Florida, etc.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 09:11:08 am
I'm not asking for a Top 5 coach.  I'm just asking for a coach that can make my team competitive more often than not and give us a shot if the stars align to possibly end up with a great season.

If we did have a Top 5 coach, the only way we'd be able to keep him would be if that coach were an alum.  He'd eventually jump ship for an easier job with more pay.  That's what happens when you're not USC, Texas, Florida, etc.

Although you and I do disagree every once and a while, I have to say this is the most common sense post I've seen you make.

If you want someone to keep you competitive in the SEC, which I believe Hootie will do, probably, then you guys are made for each other.  But that's going to be a big "if" for your fans, bruiser.

It may be a case of "you can't un-ring a bell", being that he had immediate success last year, in your terms, and that you have gotten so much preseason hype this year.  Is the fan base going to be OK if he goes 8-4 again this year?  That's the question.

If the entire fan base is in agreement with you, then you may have the right coach for your team, because I believe he will do better than Orgeron (obviously), and probably close to what Cutcliffe would have done if he'd stayed, if not a little better.

But fans ARE fickled.  A couple of 8-4 years followed by a 6-6 or a 5-7 will put your fans to the test.  It's going to be interesting to see how that all shakes out, to be sure.

Just don't hold your breath too long waiting for that "great season", and by that I'm assuming you mean an SEC championship season probably.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Sivad

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 09:11:08 am

.....jump ship for an easier job with more pay. 


When he can avoid being fired, that is your coach's constant goal.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on September 11, 2009, 11:11:14 am
Although you and I do disagree every once and a while, I have to say this is the most common sense post I've seen you make.

If you want someone to keep you competitive in the SEC, which I believe Hootie will do, probably, then you guys are made for each other.  But that's going to be a big "if" for your fans, bruiser.

It may be a case of "you can't un-ring a bell", being that he had immediate success last year, in your terms, and that you have gotten so much preseason hype this year.  Is the fan base going to be OK if he goes 8-4 again this year?  That's the question.

If the entire fan base is in agreement with you, then you may have the right coach for your team, because I believe he will do better than Orgeron (obviously), and probably close to what Cutcliffe would have done if he'd stayed, if not a little better.

But fans ARE fickled.  A couple of 8-4 years followed by a 6-6 or a 5-7 will put your fans to the test.  It's going to be interesting to see how that all shakes out, to be sure.

Just don't hold your breath too long waiting for that "great season", and by that I'm assuming you mean an SEC championship season probably.

By great season, I mean being in the mix and possibly winning the division with maybe a 10 win season, and maybe if the stars align winning the title game.  I'm realistic about that.  There are only 6 teams that have won an SEC title since 1963, and we were the last outside of that 6 to win one.  There were 10 teams in the league from 1964-1991, and only 6 won the title, and from 1992-present it's been 12 teams, but still the same 6 are the only ones to have won the title.

To say that I EXPECT a coach to come in, break that streak, and deliver an SEC title or more than one, would be unrealistic considering the precedent.

You are right though that fans are fickle.  We get spoiled quickly with any level of success and immediately start demanding more.  I've been there before in multiple sports.

On expectations though, I think they can and should vary from season to season.  For instance, 8-4 this year would be a little disappointing.  8-4 in 2010 would be a great season given the number of starters we'll lose after this year.  For me, this is what I would hope to see over the next few years to be able to say Nutt was doing a good job:

2009: 9-3 or 10-2, possibility of being in the mix for the division title
2010: 6-6 or 7-5 and probably a Liberty Bowl
2011: 8-4, with an average bowl game, maybe better if we get some breaks
2012: 9-3 or 10-2, possibility of being in the mix for the division title

And we'll see from there.  If he averages 8-4 or 7-5 every regular season, you won't see me complain, though I can almost guarantee you we'd have some fans eventually complain about it.  That's just the way it goes.  It would not be possible for every program to meet the fan's expectations in the SEC unless they started giving 3 or 4 SEC titles per season, and that's why the turnover is so high in this league, and it's why coaches typically don't make it more than 10 years.

Georgia is in Year 9 of Richt, and you can already see their fans gathering pitchforks despite the fact that he's done a great job there, much like Tuberville got old at Auburn.

The Hogfather

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 01:44:24 pm
By great season, I mean being in the mix and possibly winning the division with maybe a 10 win season, and maybe if the stars align winning the title game.

HA!  So, you're pretty sure you're going to be good, right?  I possibly might maybe somewhat, if the stars align, not laugh at you for making such a "definitive" statement.

rebelbruiser

September 11, 2009, 02:13:48 pm #161 Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 02:16:57 pm by rebelbruiser
Quote from: The Hogfather on September 11, 2009, 02:00:13 pm
HA!  So, you're pretty sure you're going to be good, right?  I possibly might maybe somewhat, if the stars align, not laugh at you for making such a "definitive" statement.

It's sports.  You can't guarantee anything.  I just want us to be in the mix with a shot, and I want us to be competitive.

The difference between a good season and a great season is often determined by a few bounces here or there when you're not a completely dominant team in all phases of the game.  That's why I say if the stars align.

To clarify on that statement, a great season by my definition would be a 9-3 or 10-2 season where we go to a very good bowl, and if the tiebreakers work out, we get to go to the SEC title game, where anything can happen.  I say it that way because to me 10-2 without an SEC title game appearance would still be a great season just like 10-2 with an SEC title game appearance would be a great season.  And if the stars were to align, we could end up with an even better year.  I don't look at it and say, we went 10-2, but the season was average because we missed out on the SEC championship game.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: NolanForAD on September 11, 2009, 02:17:58 pm
How will you feel about 5 losses?

This year, I'd be disappointed.  Next year, it would be a decent showing and would be towrad the high side of my expectations.  On average though, I think a 7-5 is a solid, competitive record.

I'm not worried about having 5 regular season losses though, at least this year.

 

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 01:44:24 pm
2009: 9-3 or 10-2, possibility of being in the mix for the division title
2010: 6-6 or 7-5 and probably a Liberty Bowl
2011: 8-4, with an average bowl game, maybe better if we get some breaks
2012: 9-3 or 10-2, possibility of being in the mix for the division title

I'm glad to give you my respect for putting your expectations down on paper, so to speak.  I don't blame you, if I was an OM fan and that's what I thought we were going to have over the next four years I'd be pretty happy, too.  I expect reality is going to be more harsh for you than that, though.  But that's why they play the games, huh?  It IS going to be fun, I'm sure of that!!
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

rebelbruiser

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on September 11, 2009, 03:12:43 pm
I'm glad to give you my respect for putting your expectations down on paper, so to speak.  I don't blame you, if I was an OM fan and that's what I thought we were going to have over the next four years I'd be pretty happy, too.  I expect reality is going to be more harsh for you than that, though.  But that's why they play the games, huh?  It IS going to be fun, I'm sure of that!!

I guess we'll see, and you are right.  Most SEC fan expectations are usually out of whack.  Rarely do we get what we want, which is why coaches get fired so often.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 03:24:52 pm
I guess we'll see, and you are right.  Most SEC fan expectations are usually out of whack.  Rarely do we get what we want, which is why coaches get fired so often.

I am actually a little concerned about that over here.  Our fans are so hyped up and there may be a huge letdown if we have a 7-5 year, which I would be OK with.  I'd be better with 8-4, but 7-5 would be a nice step up in results with still such a young team.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

rebelbruiser

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on September 11, 2009, 03:28:48 pm
I am actually a little concerned about that over here.  Our fans are so hyped up and there may be a huge letdown if we have a 7-5 year, which I would be OK with.  I'd be better with 8-4, but 7-5 would be a nice step up in results with still such a young team.

I've said all along you could be greatly improved and still go 7-5 this year with that schedule, yet you have fans calling for 10-2 and possibly a chance to be battling it out with Bama for the West title.  I could be wrong, but I think that's a little premature, and it shows the unrealistic nature of most SEC fans.

The Hogfather

I think most fans think we'll go 7-5 or 8-4.  That is not unrealistic.  We went 5-7 last year, but could've very easily gone 7-5 or 8-4.  Our schedule is no harder than last year, we have huge talent upgrades at multiple positions, and a year of experience under Petrino.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 11, 2009, 05:37:10 pm
I think most fans think we'll go 7-5 or 8-4.  That is not unrealistic.  We went 5-7 last year, but could've very easily gone 7-5 or 8-4.  Our schedule is no harder than last year, we have huge talent upgrades at multiple positions, and a year of experience under Petrino.

See this is where the unrealistic thing comes in.  You could've just as easily gone 0-12 as 8-4 last year.  You were 5-3 in games decided by 7 points or less.  You didn't have a single win by more than 7 points.  As a fan, you have to always look at both sides of that coin.

I do think you can and will go 7-5, maybe 8-4 this year, but it'll be because your team is better, not because you get a few more breaks.  You were far from unfortunate last year.

The Hogfather

September 12, 2009, 09:31:41 am #169 Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 09:33:19 am by The Hogfather
Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 11, 2009, 10:35:24 pm
You could've just as easily gone 0-12 as 8-4 last year.  You were 5-3 in games decided by 7 points or less.  You didn't have a single win by more than 7 points.

Uhhhhhhhhhh......you very well could've been 7-6 and not 9-4, and you are EXPECTING 9-3 or 10-2 this year.  5-3 in games decided by 7 points or less for us last year points to good coaching. 

QuoteI do think you can and will go 7-5, maybe 8-4 this year, but it'll be because your team is better, not because you get a few more breaks.  You were far from unfortunate last year.

WTH are you talking about?  Yes, our team is better this year and we were really close to being 7-5 or 8-4 last year.  That's why predicting 7-5 or 8-4, like the majority of our fans are, is not unrealistic.

We were far from unfortunate last year?  Because we had a winning record in close games?  Name me ONE break in one of our close games.  We didn't have any lucky breaks.  The ball "didn't bounce our way" once last year.  Had it bounced our way a couple of times last year (a made FG at Miss St, a made FG/no phantom PI call against Miss, etc.), we would've had a better record.

We didn't have any blocked extra points to win or anything.  You know, something that happens once every 4,308 times an XP is kicked.

rebelbruiser

September 12, 2009, 01:59:39 pm #170 Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 02:02:03 pm by rebelbruiser
Quote from: The Hogfather on September 12, 2009, 09:31:41 am
Uhhhhhhhhhh......you very well could've been 7-6 and not 9-4, and you are EXPECTING 9-3 or 10-2 this year.  5-3 in games decided by 7 points or less for us last year points to good coaching. 

WTH are you talking about?  Yes, our team is better this year and we were really close to being 7-5 or 8-4 last year.  That's why predicting 7-5 or 8-4, like the majority of our fans are, is not unrealistic.

We were far from unfortunate last year?  Because we had a winning record in close games?  Name me ONE break in one of our close games.  We didn't have any lucky breaks.  The ball "didn't bounce our way" once last year.  Had it bounced our way a couple of times last year (a made FG at Miss St, a made FG/no phantom PI call against Miss, etc.), we would've had a better record.

We didn't have any blocked extra points to win or anything.  You know, something that happens once every 4,308 times an XP is kicked.

You're completely missing the point.  We had 6 games decided by 7 points or less.  You had 8 games decided by 7 points or less.  If you had won or lost every close game, you'd have been anywhere from 0-12 to 8-4.  If we'd have won or lost all our close games, we've have been anywhere from 6-6 to 12-0.

That's a big difference, and that's why you have to look at both sides of the coin in trying to figure out how close you are to being better.  We could've won 9, 10, or 11 regular season games with a few more breaks.  Sure we could've been 6-6 had we not won a single close game, but that almost never happens.  A good example is MSU in 2007.  They were 3-0 in games decided by 7 or less on their way to a 7-5 season.  They were not a 7-5 team, and the next season they proved it by going 4-8 when they didn't get all the breaks in the close games.

As far as breaks go, you lose to La.-Monroe if they hit a FG at the end.  You may lose to Tulsa if they complete a pass in the endzone on the last drive.  You lose to Western Illinois if a pass is tipped on your game winning TD drive.  You lose to LSU if that pass falls incomplete at the end.  In every close game, there is a play or two that makes the difference.  You were fortunate in some of those games and unfortunate in others.  That's the way it usually goes.  You were fortunate more often than unfortunate.  Last year we were unfortunate more often than fortunate.

If you can't admit that, you're just being a blind homer, which I know you are.

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 01:59:39 pm
You're completely missing the point.  We had 6 games decided by 7 points or less.  You had 8 games decided by 7 points or less.  If you had won or lost every close game, you'd have been anywhere from 0-12 to 8-4.  If we'd have won or lost all our close games, we've have been anywhere from 6-6 to 12-0.

That's a big difference, and that's why you have to look at both sides of the coin in trying to figure out how close you are to being better.  We could've won 9, 10, or 11 regular season games with a few more breaks.  Sure we could've been 6-6 had we not won a single close game, but that almost never happens.  A good example is MSU in 2007.  They were 3-0 in games decided by 7 or less on their way to a 7-5 season.  They were not a 7-5 team, and the next season they proved it by going 4-8 when they didn't get all the breaks in the close games.

As far as breaks go, you lose to La.-Monroe if they hit a FG at the end.  You may lose to Tulsa if they complete a pass in the endzone on the last drive.  You lose to Western Illinois if a pass is tipped on your game winning TD drive.  You lose to LSU if that pass falls incomplete at the end.  In every close game, there is a play or two that makes the difference.  You were fortunate in some of those games and unfortunate in others.  That's the way it usually goes.  You were fortunate more often than unfortunate.  Last year we were unfortunate more often than fortunate.

If you can't admit that, you're just being a blind homer, which I know you are.
it's amazing how you can recall such minute details about games.....and credit must be given to you for continuously throwing out stat after stat, you definitely know how to sling the bs in hopes it might stick or confuse some.  I personally get tired of seeing your responses.
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 12, 2009, 04:10:36 pm
it's amazing how you can recall such minute details about games.....and credit must be given to you for continuously throwing out stat after stat, you definitely know how to sling the bs in hopes it might stick or confuse some.  I personally get tired of seeing your responses.

Why?  Because I support my points rather than just throwing out an opinion without supporting it.

I'd be more than glad for you to show me where the facts I brought out were BS rather than just stating an opinion like saying I "sling bs" without backing up that opinion.

The Hogfather

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 01:59:39 pm
Last year we were unfortunate more often than fortunate.

If you can't admit that, you're just being a blind homer, which I know you are.

Please tell me how you were unfortunate more often than fortunate.  It is absolutely freaking comedy that you call me a blind homer.  Comedy.

 

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 04:17:04 pm
Why?  Because I support my points rather than just throwing out an opinion without supporting it.

I'd be more than glad for you to show me where the facts I brought out were BS rather than just stating an opinion like saying I "sling bs" without backing up that opinion.
hell, just about anybody can find stats to back up their "opinion", but I don't need stats to do that.  my opinion is you like to dazzle with bs.  Nothing we say is going to change your mind about how you feel towards your head coach.  Just know, we will be right there to say "We told you so" when it happens, and it will happen.

Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

The Hogfather

Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 12, 2009, 04:25:12 pm
hell, just about anybody can find stats to back up their "opinion", but I don't need stats to do that.  my opinion is you like to dazzle with bs.  Nothing we say is going to change your mind about how you feel towards your head coach.  Just know, we will be right there to say "We told you so" when it happens, and it will happen.



Exactly.  As much as I like to sit here and list all the reasons in which rebelbruiser is wrong/mistaken, it won't matter until he pulls his hair out in frustration at the total unpreparedness and sheer incompetency shown by their "top 10, National Championship contending" team and head coach.  Then, and only then, will rebelbruiser realize how much he had been duped, although he'll NEVER admit it.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 12, 2009, 04:22:36 pm
Please tell me how you were unfortunate more often than fortunate.  It is absolutely freaking comedy that you call me a blind homer.  Comedy.

We were 2-4 in games decided by 7 points or less.  That means we didn't get that play or two in 4 of our close games and we only got that play or two in 2 of our close games.

That's pretty simple to me.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 12, 2009, 04:25:12 pm
hell, just about anybody can find stats to back up their "opinion", but I don't need stats to do that.  my opinion is you like to dazzle with bs.  Nothing we say is going to change your mind about how you feel towards your head coach.  Just know, we will be right there to say "We told you so" when it happens, and it will happen.

My point is that the facts ALREADY say you're wrong about my coach.  You say he can't recruit, he can't coach, he doesn't prepare his teams, etc. yet he won more SEC games in 10 years at Arkansas than he lost.  I don't care who you are, you have to do at least something right to make that happen.  You can't just suck at recruiting and suck at coaching and go over .500 in SEC play for 10 years.

He didn't make you a Top 10 program, but that's not the argument I see all the time.  The argument is that he destroys programs.  Averaging 4 wins a year in the SEC for 10 years is not destroying a program.  If he was as bad as you claim he is, he wouldn't have lasted more than 4 years at Arkansas.

Eddie Piggard

I just find it uncanny that he can pick one single play out of 70 from a team he doesn't follow to make his point, like he has all 70 plays at his disposal. So, thats where I get the dazzle with the bs comment....it would kind of be like me saying, "it the ref hadn't have picked up that flag on the third series of the second have when we were in a spread formation with X receiver in motion, and our HB 2yds to the right of our QB, who knows what could have happened...."
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 04:34:57 pm
My point is that the facts ALREADY say you're wrong about my coach.  You say he can't recruit, he can't coach, he doesn't prepare his teams, etc. yet he won more SEC games in 10 years at Arkansas than he lost.  I don't care who you are, you have to do at least something right to make that happen.  You can't just suck at recruiting and suck at coaching and go over .500 in SEC play for 10 years.

He didn't make you a Top 10 program, but that's not the argument I see all the time.  The argument is that he destroys programs.  Averaging 4 wins a year in the SEC for 10 years is not destroying a program.  If he was as bad as you claim he is, he wouldn't have lasted more than 4 years at Arkansas.
if he was 51-50 in 10yrs, hell he won more than he lost, still wouldn't make him a good coach.....see how easy that is?
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

The Hogfather

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 04:31:45 pm
We were 2-4 in games decided by 7 points or less.

I love how you point to this as evidence that you were "unfortunate" or "didn't get many breaks".  To the rest of the world, it is proof as to how inconsistent/poor your coaching is.

Eddie Piggard

real coaches don't rely on breaks to explain near misses to inferior teams, and sad as it is to say, we were inferior last year, and they needed more than one to beat us.

like that dropped pass by Joe Adams when he was running a "go" route, 17.5 seconds before the end of the 3rd quarter....
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

rebelbruiser

September 12, 2009, 08:52:00 pm #182 Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 08:53:47 pm by rebelbruiser
Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 12, 2009, 04:45:29 pm
real coaches don't rely on breaks to explain near misses to inferior teams, and sad as it is to say, we were inferior last year, and they needed more than one to beat us.

like that dropped pass by Joe Adams when he was running a "go" route, 17.5 seconds before the end of the 3rd quarter....

Here is my point.  If you're a good team, you're going to have quite a few wins where you win convincingly.  If you're not a good team, you're going to have more games where you lose convincingly.  Every team is going to have some games that end up pretty close.

Florida last year was so good that they only had one game that they didn't win by 10 points or more.  That's the sign of a really good team.

Ohio State in 2002 was a very good team, but they were the luckiest team I've seen in a long time.  They had 7 wins that were decided by 7 points or less.  In games like that, a dropped pass, a deflected pass, a missed call on a fumble, any single play can mean the difference between a win and a loss.

Usually over a year those close games come close to balancing out.

And when you're projecting an upcoming season, a team that went 8-4 with all 4 losses coming by 7 points or less is going to look better than a team that went 8-4 with its losses coming by an average of 20 points a game.

Surely you both understand that concept.  It's something that's important to look at when you're projecting where you should be the next year.

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 12, 2009, 08:52:00 pm
Here is my point.  If you're a good team, you're going to have quite a few wins where you win convincingly.  If you're not a good team, you're going to have more games where you lose convincingly.  Every team is going to have some games that end up pretty close.

Florida last year was so good that they only had one game that they didn't win by 10 points or more.  That's the sign of a really good team.

Ohio State in 2002 was a very good team, but they were the luckiest team I've seen in a long time.  They had 7 wins that were decided by 7 points or less.  In games like that, a dropped pass, a deflected pass, a missed call on a fumble, any single play can mean the difference between a win and a loss.

Usually over a year those close games come close to balancing out.

And when you're projecting an upcoming season, a team that went 8-4 with all 4 losses coming by 7 points or less is going to look better than a team that went 8-4 with its losses coming by an average of 20 points a game.

Surely you both understand that concept.  It's something that's important to look at when you're projecting where you should be the next year.
ok, using your scenario of 8-4 teams....

I will take a Petrino team that went 8-4 with an avg of 20pt losses than a Nutt team that went 8-4 with a seven point difference in the losses.

And I am willing to be my next paycheck, the majority of hog fans would see it the same way.


Does that explain it any plainer??
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 12, 2009, 09:17:59 pm
ok, using your scenario of 8-4 teams....

I will take a Petrino team that went 8-4 with an avg of 20pt losses than a Nutt team that went 8-4 with a seven point difference in the losses.

And I am willing to be my next paycheck, the majority of hog fans would see it the same way.


Does that explain it any plainer??

I've never said you guys made a bad move with your coaching decision.  I thought you needed to get rid of Nutt for a number of reasons.

I just think many of you let the bitterness cloud your judgement about the things he's done and the things he can do as a coach.  He's not Ed Orgeron or Sylvester Croom.  He's a lot closer to Tommy Tuberville than either of those two.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Hawg2011 on September 13, 2009, 12:17:57 am
What are you guys trying to convince rebelbruiser of?

Let it come out on the field...

Then again..maybe it's good for us to vent our frustrations about ol' Hootie.

He's in the same position we were in, with the Boise St. fans telling us the same things...we still thought he was gonna get us the championship.

The games are played on the field, and Nutty-boy isn't all of a sudden going to become a NC caliber coach 2 seasons after leaving Arkansas. He's going to lose several games this year because that's what he does. We know that. Let rebelbruiser figure it out on his own. If he's as smart as he seems to be at football, he will realize it once the honeymoon ends this season.

And again, there aren't many Ole Miss fans that think we hired a national championship caliber coach.  We're not that type of program.  If we get there, it'll be because the stars aligned for a given year.

What we know, is that we hired a coach that can win in the SEC.  He's not Urban Meyer, but then there are only 3 or 4 of those out there.  He's a solid coach though, along the lines of Tommy Tuberville, and I'll take that all day every day.

farmhawg

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 13, 2009, 08:46:33 am
And again, there aren't many Ole Miss fans that think we hired a national championship caliber coach.  We're not that type of program.  If we get there, it'll be because the stars aligned for a given year.

What we know, is that we hired a coach that can win in the SEC.  He's not Urban Meyer, but then there are only 3 or 4 of those out there.  He's a solid coach though, along the lines of Tommy Tuberville, and I'll take that all day every day.
He is not even close to Tuberville. If you all weren't so damn desperate for a coach, he would be at Baylor right now losing his ass off.
From theflyinghog

Jeff Long is sitting around drinking some fruity girl drink and reading this and realizing he was the wrong man for the job. We're crazy. We love us some damn hog football. There may be a bunch of suits sitting behind glass on gameday but dammit you better not cross us airplane-tracking, fence-jumping, hangar-breakin-entering night-vision purchasin sumbitches! We're Miracle on Markham and 4th and 25, 7 overtime-winning tear down the goalposts and drag em down Dickson because you ain't goin to the BCS, fat phil!! BRING ME A COACH WITH A PAIR AND SACRIFICE A VIRGIN CUZ ITS TIME TO FUSCING WIN!!!!

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Hawg2011 on September 13, 2009, 11:06:20 am
Houston Nutt SEC Record-42–38 Winning % .525
Number of winning seasons 3/10

Tommy Tuberville-52–30 winning % .609
Number of winning seasons 8/10

Please don't let the facts get in the way though rebelbruiser.

I can quote stats and facts with you as well, and Nutt is not in Tubby's league.

Also as for you guys being "ok" with a .525% winning percentage.

Cutcliffe's time at Ole Miss .520%

Just sayin'

Cutcliffe's problem was not the fans.  His problem was the fact that he refused to make changes when asked, and he basically asked to be fired.

They spent 2 weeks trying to come to an agreement, and he wouldn't give anything.  Most of our fanbase was unhappy that he got fired when he did.

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 13, 2009, 02:59:43 pm
Cutcliffe's problem was not the fans.  His problem was the fact that he refused to make changes when asked, and he basically asked to be fired.

They spent 2 weeks trying to come to an agreement, and he wouldn't give anything.  Most of our fanbase was unhappy that he got fired when he did.
why should he have to?  he brought your program back from the gutter in a short amount of time, what needed to be changed?  Is this the same fanbase that doesn't expect much??
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

rebelbruiser

September 14, 2009, 10:59:07 am #189 Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 11:01:32 am by rebelbruiser
Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 13, 2009, 06:07:28 pm
why should he have to?  he brought your program back from the gutter in a short amount of time, what needed to be changed?  Is this the same fanbase that doesn't expect much??

His defenses were getting progressively worse, and they felt like his recruiting was starting to slide, so they asked him what his plan was to correct those things.  His stated plan was to keep doing what he was doing, and he wouldn't budge from that.

Basically, they wanted to see some assistant coaching changes, which was needed.  In most circumstances a coach will make those changes when needed.

Cutcliffe was good early on, and his recruiting went well, because he had a good group of assistants.  He lost most of those assistants over the years, which happens, but he did a poor job replacing them.  Basically, he was loyal to a fault.  You can't really say too much negative about a guy that was unwilling to get rid of his employees.  However, college football is a business, and if some of your assistants aren't getting it done, you have to make changes.

And no, Cutcliffe didn't bring our program back from the gutter.  That was Tommy Tuberville.  Tuberville inherited a program that lost 26 scholarships over 2 years due to probation.  We had a 1 year TV ban and a 2 year bowl ban.  We had some games where we traveled fewer than 50 scholarship players.  Under normal circumstances, a probation like that would've destroyed a program like ours for a good decade.  Tuberville scheduled soft and went 11-11 in his first two years to help give us something positive.  Then in Year 3, his first year where we were able to go bowling, he went 8-4 with a bowl win.  He led us to a bowl in Year 4 as well before leaving.  When he left, he left 4 offensive line starters that would go on to be drafted in the NFL.  He left a QB that would go on to be 2nd Team All-SEC, Romaro Miller.  He left Deuce McAllister as our tailback.  And he left a defense that was solid.

Tuberville rebuilt our program.  Cutcliffe did a good job maintaining it, but he inherited a program that had enough talent to compete with anyone in the SEC immediately, and he maintained it with a big assist given to landing Eli Manning.  We were not down when Cutcliffe arrived.

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Hawg2011 on September 14, 2009, 11:41:02 am
^amazing....you guys fired David Cutcliffe for being a Houston Nutt with more morals.

I told you, Cutcliffe's firing was not popular with the fanbase, but Cutcliffe all but asked to be fired.

Let's say your boss brought you in for your yearly review and told you he wasn't pleased with your most recent year, and he points to specific areas of your performance that he believes contributed to your recent slip in performance.  He's been pleased with prior years of your performance, but he wants you to take a look at those specific areas that he believes may affect your future performance.  So, he asks you to present him a plan for what you plan to do to improve those areas.  Let's say you come back to him the next week and tell him that your plan is to not change a thing and keep doing what you're doing with the belief that what you have been doing will be good enough to improve in those problem areas.  If you refuse to budge, do you think your boss would just eventually back down, or do you think he'd let you go?

That's essentially what happened with Cutcliffe.  The fans, and even the administration, wanted to give him one more year to see if things would turn around, but he basically called their bluff and forced his own termination.

Eddie Piggard

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 14, 2009, 01:03:37 pm
I told you, Cutcliffe's firing was not popular with the fanbase, but Cutcliffe all but asked to be fired.

Let's say your boss brought you in for your yearly review and told you he wasn't pleased with your most recent year, and he points to specific areas of your performance that he believes contributed to your recent slip in performance.  He's been pleased with prior years of your performance, but he wants you to take a look at those specific areas that he believes may affect your future performance.  So, he asks you to present him a plan for what you plan to do to improve those areas.  Let's say you come back to him the next week and tell him that your plan is to not change a thing and keep doing what you're doing with the belief that what you have been doing will be good enough to improve in those problem areas.  If you refuse to budge, do you think your boss would just eventually back down, or do you think he'd let you go?

That's essentially what happened with Cutcliffe.  The fans, and even the administration, wanted to give him one more year to see if things would turn around, but he basically called their bluff and forced his own termination.
my boss better have some reasons or job evals to show his displeasure, instead of coming from nowhere and asking for changes.  Isn't that what a coach is hired for, because he is the best to evaluate and make the needed decisions?  not some asshat with an ego in an office
Pray for Obama. Psalms 109:8

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Eddie Piggard on September 14, 2009, 02:25:00 pm
my boss better have some reasons or job evals to show his displeasure, instead of coming from nowhere and asking for changes.  Isn't that what a coach is hired for, because he is the best to evaluate and make the needed decisions?  not some asshat with an ego in an office

So you don't think that happens everywhere.  Why do you think Tommy Tuberville was forced to hire a new OC?  Why do you think Fulmer let Randy Sanders go?  And you can bet that if Georgia struggles this year, Mark Richt is going to be forced to let Willie Martinez go.

Basically every coach, when on the hot seat or when one side of the ball is struggling, is given the chance to change the coordinator that's been in charge of the biggest weakness of the team.  Chuck Dreisbach was our DC, and the 4-2-5 system of his just wasn't working.  It had been a problem for a few years even when we were winning, and Cutcliffe knew it too.  He just refused to make that change.

Cutcliffe's teams won with offense, and they won in spite of the defense.  Each year it was becoming increasingly out of balance, with the offense being forced to carry the team even more.  Then when Eli graduated and our offense was back to average, not elite, the problem on defense was even more glaring.

And you can bet that if you're high enough in an organization and one of your departments is underperforming, your boss is going to ask you for a pretty comprehensive plan for how that's going to change if you say you aren't going to change personnel.  And you can bet that if you tell him you're not going to change anything and that you expect that weakness to miraculously turn itself around, you'd be shown the door.

Sivad

Rebelbruiser:
Just curious...did you hang out all day on other teams' boards BEFORE Nutt became your coach or is it a new phenomenom with just Nutt?

rebelbruiser

Quote from: Sivad on September 14, 2009, 03:45:18 pm
Rebelbruiser:
Just curious...did you hang out all day on other teams' boards BEFORE Nutt became your coach or is it a new phenomenom with just Nutt?

Yea, I spend a lot of time on a couple MSU boards, and I visit an LSU board under a different name.

I didn't start coming here though until after Nutt was hired, primarily because I enjoy arguing, and there are quite a few people here that will argue with me.  That's the fun of message boards to me.

The Hogfather

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 15, 2009, 08:05:28 am
Yea, I spend a lot of time on a couple MSU boards, and I visit an LSU board under a different name.

I didn't start coming here though until after Nutt was hired, primarily because I enjoy arguing, and there are quite a few people here that will argue with me.  That's the fun of message boards to me.

So, you're a troll...

rebelbruiser

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 15, 2009, 08:09:33 am
So, you're a troll...

Why do you come to message boards?  For me, it's to get information, the latest rumors, and to argue with people about sports when I disagree with them.

It's the same thing you'd do at a sports bar but in an internet setting.  Arguing about sports is why sports exist in the first place, and it's why fans show up to games.  The reason people get so much joy when their team wins is because they get to poke their chest out on Monday at work and with their golf buddies, or whoever.  It's not because it makes you sleep better at night.

hognc2010

Rebelbruiser -

At least I can say this for you - You do like to Argue ;0)  which will be hard for you not to argue -

El Puerco

Quote from: Sivad on September 14, 2009, 03:45:18 pm
Rebelbruiser:
Just curious...did you hang out all day on other teams' boards BEFORE Nutt became your coach or is it a new phenomenom with just Nutt?

I really, really wish that somebody would bounce his smug, repetitive, dumb ass out of here.

El Puerco

Quote from: rebelbruiser on September 15, 2009, 09:13:01 am
Why do you come to message boards?  For me, it's to get information, the latest rumors, and to argue with people about sports when I disagree with them.

It's the same thing you'd do at a sports bar but in an internet setting.  Arguing about sports is why sports exist in the first place, and it's why fans show up to games.  The reason people get so much joy when their team wins is because they get to poke their chest out on Monday at work and with their golf buddies, or whoever.  It's not because it makes you sleep better at night.

I go to message boards, including Nafoom, for information.  When visiting other team's boards, I shut my big mouth.
You have no life and I've seen numerous occasions where you run your idiot ass right back to Nafoom to tattle all about what you saw on Hogville.  That...is pathetic.