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Monday updates:Embery down to 2 (will announce Sat), Phillips in-home went well

Started by Kevin McPherson, September 11, 2017, 09:58:36 pm

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ShadowHawg


The_Iceman

A big surprise. Didn't expect this. A big hurdle cleared for this coaching staff to be able to go out of state and land a player of this caliber. This is his first big recruiting battle win for an out of state high school recruit.

 

razorback1829

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 16, 2017, 05:34:06 pm
A big surprise. Didn't expect this. A big hurdle cleared for this coaching staff to be able to go out of state and land a player of this caliber. This is his first big recruiting battle win for an out of state high school recruit.

You know, you're incredibly naive and ignorant when it comes to recruiting on this level of basketball. There's a lot of realities that you don't care to consider or just flat out miss. EVERY kid in this day and age, even in 2015, is a battle. In state or out. It's harder in a sense when they are in state bc of expectations and home pressure (esp the top ranked kids). This staff refuses to cheat, and hey turn out quality classes every year. Buck up my man! It's about to be a good time to be a Hog

MakingPlays

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 16, 2017, 05:34:06 pm
A big surprise. Didn't expect this. A big hurdle cleared for this coaching staff to be able to go out of state and land a player of this caliber. This is his first big recruiting battle win for an out of state high school recruit.

Jimmy Whitt and Moses Kingsley were both rated higher.  At the time those would be considered bigger gets.  Jaylen Barford, although a JUCO, was also a huge out of state get since Louisville was all over him.  Nonetheless this is still a big time get by the staff.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: MakingPlays on September 16, 2017, 06:32:39 pm
Jimmy Whitt and Moses Kingsley were both rated higher.  At the time those would be considered bigger gets.  Jaylen Barford, although a JUCO, was also a huge out of state get since Louisville was all over him.  Nonetheless this is still a big time get by the staff.

the kid from Dallas as well... he's just spewing the SOS he always does...

Hawg Red

Quote from: MakingPlays on September 16, 2017, 06:32:39 pm
Jimmy Whitt and Moses Kingsley were both rated higher.  At the time those would be considered bigger gets.  Jaylen Barford, although a JUCO, was also a huge out of state get since Louisville was all over him.  Nonetheless this is still a big time get by the staff.

Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships above the connections and relationships you need to be able to recruit players. Still good signings and they definitely had competition for both, but Embery, as far as we know, appears to be the staff just flat out getting it done and just going out and getting a kid. Don't now if Embery is the biggest non-connection/non-relationship/non-in-state get for the staff, but it's up there with, like you said, a guy like Barford, who has proven already to be a good player at the SEC level. But I think people are considering Embery the biggest get for Anderson because there was no prior connection to the state, program or staff like there was with Kingsley or Whitt.

All said, after 5 seasons and 7 recruiting classes (counting 2011 and 2018 as half recruiting class), Anderson and Co. have shown the ability to get some good nationally-rated players and the ability to excel with unheralded players that fit the system. The biggest bugaboo has been keeping players in the program. I'm not sure what they can do about that. Every program in the country suffers from this, pretty much.  I've gotten to the point where I trust the recruiting. We just have to sit on pins and needles come late April and May for kids leaving by transfer or going pro with little-to-no-chance at getting drafted. Once we lose kids like that, that's where the recruiting isn't great, generally. That's the type of situation that does not play to the staff's strengths.

Swinesong1

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 16, 2017, 08:35:40 pm
Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships above the connections and relationships you need to be able to recruit players. Still good signings and they definitely had competition for both, but Embery, as far as we know, appears to be the staff just flat out getting it done and just going out and getting a kid. Don't now if Embery is the biggest non-connection/non-relationship/non-in-state get for the staff, but it's up there with, like you said, a guy like Barford, who has proven already to be a good player at the SEC level. But I think people are considering Embery the biggest get for Anderson because there was no prior connection to the state, program or staff like there was with Kingsley or Whitt.

All said, after 5 seasons and 7 recruiting classes (counting 2011 and 2018 as half recruiting class), Anderson and Co. have shown the ability to get some good nationally-rated players and the ability to excel with unheralded players that fit the system. The biggest bugaboo has been keeping players in the program. I'm not sure what they can do about that. Every program in the country suffers from this, pretty much.  I've gotten to the point where I trust the recruiting. We just have to sit on pins and needles come late April and May for kids leaving by transfer or going pro with little-to-no-chance at getting drafted. Once we lose kids like that, that's where the recruiting isn't great, generally. That's the type of situation that does not play to the staff's strengths.
The Dogtown bs train is never late!


MakingPlays

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 16, 2017, 08:35:40 pm
Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships above the connections and relationships you need to be able to recruit players. Still good signings and they definitely had competition for both, but Embery, as far as we know, appears to be the staff just flat out getting it done and just going out and getting a kid. Don't now if Embery is the biggest non-connection/non-relationship/non-in-state get for the staff, but it's up there with, like you said, a guy like Barford, who has proven already to be a good player at the SEC level. But I think people are considering Embery the biggest get for Anderson because there was no prior connection to the state, program or staff like there was with Kingsley or Whitt.


So, you're telling me, if their is prior connection to a kid via friend committed or members of the recruit's family knowing the staff it puts an * by the recruiting ability of the staff? By that logic Calapari needs an * next to the Monk signing because Monk and De'Aron Foxx were friends, and Foxx was actively recruiting him to Kentucky.  Embery is actually trying to get LeBlanc to come here now, if he comes here instead of LSU, do we put an * by LeBlanc because Keyshawn is his friend? 

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense to me, regardless of friends or family or whatever, the staff still has to work hard and recruit the kid and beat out the competition, and they did that with both Kingsley and Whitt, they were heavily sought after recruits by big time programs, it's not like they didn't have any offers and other schools didn't recruit them because it was 100% they were going to Arkansas.

Hawg Red

Quote from: MakingPlays on September 17, 2017, 03:57:40 am

So, you're telling me, if their is prior connection to a kid via friend committed or members of the recruit's family knowing the staff it puts an * by the recruiting ability of the staff? By that logic Calapari needs an * next to the Monk signing because Monk and De'Aron Foxx were friends, and Foxx was actively recruiting him to Kentucky.  Embery is actually trying to get LeBlanc to come here now, if he comes here instead of LSU, do we put an * by LeBlanc because Keyshawn is his friend? 

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense to me, regardless of friends or family or whatever, the staff still has to work hard and recruit the kid and beat out the competition, and they did that with both Kingsley and Whitt, they were heavily sought after recruits by big time programs, it's not like they didn't have any offers and other schools didn't recruit them because it was 100% they were going to Arkansas.

You made two paragraphs about me saying there should be an asterisks next to these recruits' names when that isn't what I said at all. What I said is that people are considering this Anderson's biggest recruiting get because there does not appear to be any deep connections or relationships at play like there were with players like Kingsley or Whitt. Relationships/connections are a big part of recruiting. By all means, if you have them, use them. In no way, shape or form did I knock the staff for getting players through relationships. That's a good thing!

I just don't get how anyone could take anything else from what I posted. Snowflake City around here, man. Some of you are way, way too sensitive/defensive.!

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 08:24:26 am
You made two paragraphs about me saying there should be an asterisks next to these recruits' names when that isn't what I said at all. What I said is that people are considering this Anderson's biggest recruiting get because there does not appear to be any deep connections or relationships at play like there were with players like Kingsley or Whitt. Relationships/connections are a big part of recruiting. By all means, if you have them, use them. In no way, shape or form did I knock the staff for getting players through relationships. That's a good thing!

I just don't get how anyone could take anything else from what I posted. Snowflake City around here, man. Some of you are way, way too sensitive/defensive.!

No, it's a perpetuated fallacy inventd by people to argue Mike can't recruit.. we've seen it for all his years here.. same people spewing the same false crap.. Snowflake..

Hawg Red

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 17, 2017, 08:37:53 am
No, it's a perpetuated fallacy inventd by people to argue Mike can't recruit.. we've seen it for all his years here.. same people spewing the same false crap.. Snowflake..

Again, I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that I've said he can't recruit here. Well, other than you being entirely too sensitive. Even then, it's confounding because I was actually very complimentary of Anderson's recruiting.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 08:52:34 am
. Even then, it's confounding because I was actually very complimentary of Anderson's recruiting.

Yeah right, in a backhanded sort of way...

 

Hawg Red

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 17, 2017, 08:56:16 am
Yeah right, in a backhanded sort of way...

What's backhanded about me saying they've pulled several highly-rated players from outside the state (didn't even preface it, either, in that context) and they do really well identifying unheralded players who fit their system and developing them?

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 10:13:43 am
What's backhanded about me saying they've pulled several highly-rated players from outside the state (didn't even preface it, either, in that context) and they do really well identifying unheralded players who fit their system and developing them?

nothing about those comments are backhanded but how about this crap:

Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships

I'd call that backhanded..

Hawg Red

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 17, 2017, 10:22:20 am
nothing about those comments are backhanded but how about this crap:

Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships

I'd call that backhanded..

How is that backhanded? It's the truth and it's not something exclusive to Arkansas' staff. Now, if I had said that they can *only* get good players from outside the state tha have ties to the staff, I could see where you are coming from. The connections/previous relationships with Kingsley and Whitt were ENORMOUS factors in signing them. They still had to recruit them and sell them on the program, but they benefitted greatly from already-established relationships. It's part of recruiting. All programs will benefit from that somewhere.

MakingPlays

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 08:24:26 am
You made two paragraphs about me saying there should be an asterisks next to these recruits' names when that isn't what I said at all. What I said is that people are considering this Anderson's biggest recruiting get because there does not appear to be any deep connections or relationships at play like there were with players like Kingsley or Whitt. Relationships/connections are a big part of recruiting. By all means, if you have them, use them. In no way, shape or form did I knock the staff for getting players through relationships. That's a good thing!

I just don't get how anyone could take anything else from what I posted. Snowflake City around here, man. Some of you are way, way too sensitive/defensive.!

Looks like you're the sensitive one, you're losing it on here going off on people and calling them snowflakes because we didn't believe those backhanded compliments you gave.  I know that's all the rage these days to get on social media and attack and name call whenever someone doesn't agree with you or buy what you're selling, but I'm not about that and don't entertain it.  I'll leave you alone and let you continue with your snowflake rants.  Have a good day bro.


Hawg Red

Quote from: MakingPlays on September 17, 2017, 11:19:11 am
Looks like you're the sensitive one, you're losing it on here going off on people and calling them snowflakes because we didn't believe those backhanded compliments you gave.  I know that's all the rage these days to get on social media and attack and name call whenever someone doesn't agree with you or buy what you're selling, but I'm not about that and don't entertain it.  I'll leave you alone and let you continue with your snowflake rants.  Have a good day bro.

Do you guys even know what a backhanded compliment is?

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 12:34:12 pm
Do you guys even know what a backhanded compliment is?

Correspondingly, a backhanded (or left-handed) compliment, or asteism, is an insult that is disguised as, or accompanied by, a compliment, especially in situations where the belittling or condescension is intentional.

an example...Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships above the connections and relationships you need to be able to recruit players. Still good signings and they definitely had competition for both, but Embery, as far as we know, appears to be the staff just flat out getting it done and just going out and getting a kid. Don't now if Embery is the biggest non-connection/non-relationship/non-in-state get for the staff

Hawg Red

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 17, 2017, 04:15:09 pm
Correspondingly, a backhanded (or left-handed) compliment, or asteism, is an insult that is disguised as, or accompanied by, a compliment, especially in situations where the belittling or condescension is intentional.

an example...Kingsley was considered to have strong ties to the program being so close to Portis, who was a known die-hard Hog. That was a pretty big in for the Hogs there. Whitt had a strong relationship with the Watkins family from Anderson's time in Columbia. Those were two out-of-state recruits that Anderson got through connections and personal relationships above the connections and relationships you need to be able to recruit players. Still good signings and they definitely had competition for both, but Embery, as far as we know, appears to be the staff just flat out getting it done and just going out and getting a kid. Don't now if Embery is the biggest non-connection/non-relationship/non-in-state get for the staff

That. Is. Not. Be. Littling. Or. Con. De. Scend. Ing.

It is not an insult to say that the Arkansas staff most likely got Moses Kingsley because he played for the Arkansas Wings and was a very close friend of Bobby Portis. It is not an insult to say that the Arkansas staff most likely got Jimmy Whitt because of a long-standing relationship with the Watkins family from their time in Columbia. It is what it is -- the staff capitalized on prior relationships to get highly-rated recruits. How am I insulting them by saying that? I even said they had competition for those players. They weren't handed to them on a silver platter, but they did have a pretty good leg up. Again, that's recruiting. Other schools hire family/guardians/mentors to get players. Arkansas came by those kids honestly and fairly and definitely could have beefed it, but they didn't. But they had an advantage over other programs, and that is okay. It's a good thing when your prior relationships allow to have an advantage for a recruit. How some of you can't see that, I don't know.

There was no prior relationship, that we know of, with Embery. So....this is a pretty big get in my eyes. Not that Whitt and Kingsley weren't. But the staff had to sell this thing from scratch. Kudos to them.

Swinesong1

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 07:09:36 pm
That. Is. Not. Be. Littling. Or. Con. De. Scend. Ing.

It is not an insult to say that the Arkansas staff most likely got Moses Kingsley because he played for the Arkansas Wings and was a very close friend of Bobby Portis. It is not an insult to say that the Arkansas staff most likely got Jimmy Whitt because of a long-standing relationship with the Watkins family from their time in Columbia. It is what it is -- the staff capitalized on prior relationships to get highly-rated recruits. How am I insulting them by saying that? I even said they had competition for those players. They weren't handed to them on a silver platter, but they did have a pretty good leg up. Again, that's recruiting. Other schools hire family/guardians/mentors to get players. Arkansas came by those kids honestly and fairly and definitely could have beefed it, but they didn't. But they had an advantage over other programs, and that is okay. It's a good thing when your prior relationships allow to have an advantage for a recruit. How some of you can't see that, I don't know.

There was no prior relationship, that we know of, with Embery. So....this is a pretty big get in my eyes. Not that Whitt and Kingsley weren't. But the staff had to sell this thing from scratch. Kudos to them.
It's absolutely stupid to point out WHY Anderson landed a player.  It's even more stupid to somehow use it as a negative. 

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Swinesong1 on September 17, 2017, 07:17:23 pm
It's absolutely stupid to point out WHY Anderson landed a player.  It's even more stupid to somehow use it as a negative.

MakingPlays

Quote from: Swinesong1 on September 17, 2017, 07:17:23 pm
It's absolutely stupid to point out WHY Anderson landed a player.

I agree, you would never see people say that with Coach Cal.  Although a lot of those big time recruits he lands are friends with other big time recruits and they help recruit them once they commit.  You never hear anybody say "Cal only landed Monk because he and Foxx were friends."  The narrative is "Cal went into Arkansas and beat out Arkansas for the Arkansas native."  At least that's all I hear from ESPN/SEC Network.

mhuff

This is all much to do about nothing. It is a moot point. Let's examine this year,. Otherwise, it's like your wife saying , " Remember what you did in 1943." You know constantly bringing it up and holding it over your head. CMA and staff are doing a great job of recruiting this year. Now let's see him coach some defense and I will.be a happy camper. We have a chance to be good if all the players can meld into a team that can't stand losing.

 

rzrbackramsfan

Yes, the narrative that CMA and staff can't get a good player that doesn't have some kind of connection to the program or coaching staff is there. 

Yes, saying that this was an important get to prove that this staff can players with no prior connections strengthens the previous narrative.

This was a great pickup as were many more in the past. 

azhog10

Quote from: Hawg Red on September 17, 2017, 10:13:43 am
What's backhanded about me saying they've pulled several highly-rated players from outside the state (didn't even preface it, either, in that context) and they do really well identifying unheralded players who fit their system and developing them?
If you can't admit or realize it was backhanded then I don't think the conversation is going to go anywhere.

It very much so was a backhanded compliment. With merit, but absolutely backhanded.