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Why doesn't Arkansas play ASU?? POLL

Started by Mark Lericos, July 03, 2007, 05:28:11 pm

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ExArky

Here is the irony of UA's policy: UA will play in-state competition ONLY if the matchup is set in a postseason tournament. As a result, this insures that UA only plays in-state teams when those teams are good enough to be in a postseason tournament -- i.e. ASU men in 1987 NIT, ASU women in 2005 WNIT -- and as a result UA will play in-state teams ONLY when those teams have at least a reasonable chance of beating UA.

If UA played the in-state foes on a consistent basis, they would routinely beat those teams except for rare occasions and stack up enormous won-loss records against them. As it is now, anytime UA does get matched against an in-state team (could be UALR, UCA in the future) in a postseason tournament, there is a higher risk of a UA loss than if it were a regular thing that happened almost every season.

NEastArkie

Quote from: ExArky on July 06, 2007, 05:03:50 pm
Here is the irony of UA's policy: UA will play in-state competition ONLY if the matchup is set in a postseason tournament. As a result, this insures that UA only plays in-state teams when those teams are good enough to be in a postseason tournament -- i.e. ASU men in 1987 NIT, ASU women in 2005 WNIT -- and as a result UA will play in-state teams ONLY when those teams have at least a reasonable chance of beating UA.

If UA played the in-state foes on a consistent basis, they would routinely beat those teams except for rare occasions and stack up enormous won-loss records against them. As it is now, anytime UA does get matched against an in-state team (could be UALR, UCA in the future) in a postseason tournament, there is a higher risk of a UA loss than if it were a regular thing that happened almost every season.

You're correct.  There is some irony there.  However, it has only happened twice--in the NIT in basketball.  Nolan's worst team played what is likely ASU's best team ever.  There was also the WNIT.  It is unlikely the football teams will meet in a bowl game.

 

JEM

I hope the razorbacks never play the Indians  oops ( insert name)   :)

ExArky

Not to be nitpicking but Nolan's worst team was actually the sub-.500 team the year BEFORE the NIT team, and ASU's NCAA tournament team in the late 90s was probably its best, and a couple of the early 1990s late -round NIT teams at ASU were probably better than the 1987 team as well ...

I see no feasible scenario short of ASU making a Boise State-like run into the BCS games for them to meet in a football bowl game ... like I said, no feasible scenario ... I could see them matched up in a baseball regional some year when ASU makes a run, perhaps even in Fayetteville, or an early-round NCAA basketball tourney game if UA is a 3 seed and ASU slips in at a 14 ...

The policy gets a little ridiculous when competition in tennis and golf and track meets is forbidden ...

Albert Einswine

Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 06, 2007, 04:57:45 pm
  I kind of feel like Dr. Frankenstein with this thread.   ;D


You are more akin to one who has released an evil genie from it's bottle. ;D
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Lady Hawg Buff

Looks like we're divided here...play ball, what does either team have to lose??

jackflash

Do you think their going to play ASU when Frank leaves?  I can't see one reason for Arkansas to play them, keeping money in the state, if there going to play other Sun Belts teams, be great for the fans, show me where it would benefit Arkansas, theirs not one reason for Arkansas to play them, ASU know this

Lady Hawg Buff

Quote from: rampage72501 on July 06, 2007, 12:08:55 pm
Quote from: astate on July 06, 2007, 11:42:20 am
From reading the post this is the conclusion:

ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt in-state recruiting.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt funding.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt the power rating.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu can only hurt and not help.

I am beginning to see a pattern here.  UA IS AFRAID.

END OF DISCUSSION

Nice try, but no.

Your only statement close to being correct is "ua is AFRAID that playing asu can only hurt and not help."   Plain and simple, Arkansas has nothing to gain by playing ASU.

If such time ever comes when ASU is relevant in the college sporting world and the Razorbacks continue to refuse to play them, then and only then can you talk of Arkansas being afraid.  Until then, ASU is nothing more than a gnat buzzing around the Razorbacks' head.

You know how darn persistent and annoying those gnat's can be...then ouch, they get ya...and it stinks, because you saw them flying around the whole time, but...???

Kicking Wing

Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:57:41 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:43:05 pm
Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:40:09 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:28:53 pm
I just don't buy the excuses or the doom and gloom forecast.  It doesn't hurt Tennessee to play Memphis or MTSU.  It doesn't hurt LSU to play ULM, Tulane, ULL, etc.  It doesn't hurt Michigan to play Central Michigan.  Vanderbilt plays and loses to MTSU regularly.  Tennessee lost to Memphis and one the national title the next year.

Bottom line is that there is a fear that UA MIGHT lose to ASU and they would rather avoid the unlikely chance of that happening. 

The truth of the matter is that UA would win almost every single time just like they do against the rest of the Sun Belt teams they play every year.  It wouldn't cost them any fans to go out and beat ASU.  I can't believe that is even considered as a reason. 

UA can schedule whomever they want.  ASU would not demand any more than any other Sun Belt team and if they did, then UA shouldn't play them.  As long as they are worried about the distant possibility of losing a game or a recruit then so be it.

Why are you wasting so much time over something you consider so inconsequential?  Why does it even matter?  If you don't buy the "excuse" of the "doom & gloom" forecast, that's fine, but not only has every AD the UA has had since 1940 bought it, they're not alone among AD's who believe it.  Bobby Dodd believed it but couldn't do anything about it in Georgia.  Johnny Vaught & Bear Bryant believed it, but couldn't do anything about it in their states, either.  BTW, "doom & gloom" is simply your characterization of the UA's reasoning.  The UA & its fans who support the policy simply see it as the better of two choices.  Sounds like you want this game a whole lot more than you let on.  Maybe you think it will help ASU/hurt the UA a lot more than you let on, too.
Thank you, Swami for reading my mind.  I thought this was a board for discussion, so I was discussing.  Whether UA keeps refusing to play ASU or UCA or not really doesn't affect me much or the respective programs.  I, along with the vast majority of Arkansans just think it would be fun to watch.

One needn't be a Swami to read something as simple as that.  Unlike you, however, I don't pretend to read the minds of the "vast majority of Arkansans."  Perhaps you think some online poll can clue you in on that, but I doubt it.  But whether it'd be fun probably depends on your point of view & how the game would come out.  You probably wouldn't enjoy a 60-0 butt kicking & I wouldn't enjoy a 28-10 win. 

BTW, the UA hasn't won "almost" every game against the Sunbelt.  It has never lost to a Sunbelt team.  ASU has never beaten a team from a BCS conference.  (Well, I guess you can count one win against Ole Miss in 1912 or whenever it was.) Given that history, I don't think its the fear of a loss the UA is concerned about.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... I'm sorry, did you say something?  Honestly, every single poll ever done on the subject has shown that most believe it's silly to avoid scheduling a game.  I have never heard one single person that wasn't of the Rick Schaeffer ilk that thought the "policy" made any sense.  People that aren't originally from this state always find it laughable when they find out that such a policy exists.

THROWITDEEP

The bottom line: It will happen, they WILL play in the next 20 years. 

Justifiable Hogicide


I'd just as soon take a bubble bath with Rick Shaeffer as be forced to play the Arkansas State (mascot to be determined at a later date).

:razorback:

ejay572

Hypothetically speaking, if ASU does become the next Boise State, with all the dissention among Hog fans would ASU gain lots of Hog fans?

grayhawg

Quote from: ejay572 on July 07, 2007, 08:56:13 am
Hypothetically speaking, if ASU does become the next Boise State, with all the dissention among Hog fans would ASU gain lots of Hog fans?
They won't and I won't become an ASU fan.WPS :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

 

WilliamWallace

Quote from: DEVIL DOG HOG on July 03, 2007, 05:44:31 pm
Both Michigan and Michigan State play Mid American teams, Western Michigan - Central Michigan - Eastern Michigan, and the Big Ten doesn't always win.


what do we have to gain when we play them????



Nothing......... we have everything to lose there

SouthpawSensation

Quote from: WilliamWallace on July 07, 2007, 10:28:52 am
Quote from: DEVIL DOG HOG on July 03, 2007, 05:44:31 pm
Both Michigan and Michigan State play Mid American teams, Western Michigan - Central Michigan - Eastern Michigan, and the Big Ten doesn't always win.


what do we have to gain when we play them????



Nothing......... we have everything to lose there
How do you know Arkansas everything to lose when the only way Arkansas and Arkansas State has played is in a video game?
It's never happened. Therefore, you don't have any idea what the result would be and won't know until it actually happens. Until then, all you are going by is hearsay.

grayhawg

This really is my last post on this thread. When FB is retired lets try it then and may have a little influence then now it is a waste of time. can anybody tell me how to keep this from popping up on my post?

4thdownnutt

First of all after they change their nickname they need to change from the ugly uniforms they have.  Is black even a color?  Now for them to play us
1 All games in Fay.
2 they have to play uca before and uapb after us
3all money stays with ua ( if all they want is a game this should be no problem)
4 the first team for Ark cannot be taken out
5after 10 years lets review this policy.

   I hope people know what uas ( univ of ark st ) record against the sec is, dont you.  What is the 5 biggest wins in  uas history?  as far as the money argument when uas plays out of state they bring in out of state money and when ark plays an out of state team it pays it ark money so it evens itself out

SLC

This is my first and last post on this thread.  
The question is not "What does UA have to lose?".  The question is "What does UA have to gain by playing ASU?".  

I do not see any benefit for UA to play ASU.

I support ASU enough with my tax money.  My personal experience being there are fans over there in that area who HATE the Hogs.  There were some officers of the last company I worked for who were ASU fans and they hate AR and really did not like me for the simple fact I was a Hog fan.  I do not want to ever support those people, ever.  Nor do I feel morally obligated to do so.

I do not want to ever legitimize ASU as a football program.  It is bad enough my tax $$$ goes there, I certainly do not want to support that program any more than that.  

Arkansas's current coaching staff has not been able bring in the highest rated players in Arkansas for the past two years, legitimizing ASU would make it more tempting for in-state players to go there.  Is this a real possibility now?  No, but it is more likely to happen over time if UA plays ASU.  

Arkansas is a state with a very small population.  Nor does Arkansas have as much football talent as the other SEC states, exception being KY I guess.  Imagine a Mississippi school that got all of Mississippi's talent and kept it in-state instead of splitting it between Ole Miss, Miss St, Southern Miss, and having other schools, notably Tenn, Bama and LSU coming in.   Arkansas cannot afford to be in a position like that.  UA needs to do a better job of keeping the best in-state talent in Fayetteville.

Yes, this year's non-conference schedule is not good.  But that is b/c the TCU arrangement fell through.  In recent years the Non-conference schedule has included a tough opponent.  UA only needs one tough non-conference opponent b/c the conference schedule is brutal.  To stack up more tough non-conference opponents than that is a bit foolish.  I think AU should play other non-conference opponents that will help with recruiting.  I do not think this year's schedule meets that purpose.

I have yet to see on this thread how playing ASU would benefit UA, the reason being is it does not.  I for one hope we never play ASU, I would consider that money wasted.  It would be even worse to play them in LR, an embarressment to play them in the delta.

I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

4thdownnutt


Gaskinswitch

Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 10:02:44 pm
Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:57:41 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:43:05 pm
Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:40:09 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:28:53 pm
I just don't buy the excuses or the doom and gloom forecast.  It doesn't hurt Tennessee to play Memphis or MTSU.  It doesn't hurt LSU to play ULM, Tulane, ULL, etc.  It doesn't hurt Michigan to play Central Michigan.  Vanderbilt plays and loses to MTSU regularly.  Tennessee lost to Memphis and one the national title the next year.

Bottom line is that there is a fear that UA MIGHT lose to ASU and they would rather avoid the unlikely chance of that happening. 

The truth of the matter is that UA would win almost every single time just like they do against the rest of the Sun Belt teams they play every year.  It wouldn't cost them any fans to go out and beat ASU.  I can't believe that is even considered as a reason. 

UA can schedule whomever they want.  ASU would not demand any more than any other Sun Belt team and if they did, then UA shouldn't play them.  As long as they are worried about the distant possibility of losing a game or a recruit then so be it.

Why are you wasting so much time over something you consider so inconsequential?  Why does it even matter?  If you don't buy the "excuse" of the "doom & gloom" forecast, that's fine, but not only has every AD the UA has had since 1940 bought it, they're not alone among AD's who believe it.  Bobby Dodd believed it but couldn't do anything about it in Georgia.  Johnny Vaught & Bear Bryant believed it, but couldn't do anything about it in their states, either.  BTW, "doom & gloom" is simply your characterization of the UA's reasoning.  The UA & its fans who support the policy simply see it as the better of two choices.  Sounds like you want this game a whole lot more than you let on.  Maybe you think it will help ASU/hurt the UA a lot more than you let on, too.
Thank you, Swami for reading my mind.  I thought this was a board for discussion, so I was discussing.  Whether UA keeps refusing to play ASU or UCA or not really doesn't affect me much or the respective programs.  I, along with the vast majority of Arkansans just think it would be fun to watch.

One needn't be a Swami to read something as simple as that.  Unlike you, however, I don't pretend to read the minds of the "vast majority of Arkansans."  Perhaps you think some online poll can clue you in on that, but I doubt it.  But whether it'd be fun probably depends on your point of view & how the game would come out.  You probably wouldn't enjoy a 60-0 butt kicking & I wouldn't enjoy a 28-10 win. 

BTW, the UA hasn't won "almost" every game against the Sunbelt.  It has never lost to a Sunbelt team.  ASU has never beaten a team from a BCS conference.  (Well, I guess you can count one win against Ole Miss in 1912 or whenever it was.) Given that history, I don't think its the fear of a loss the UA is concerned about.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... I'm sorry, did you say something?  Honestly, every single poll ever done on the subject has shown that most believe it's silly to avoid scheduling a game.  I have never heard one single person that wasn't of the Rick Schaeffer ilk that thought the "policy" made any sense.  People that aren't originally from this state always find it laughable when they find out that such a policy exists.

The policy not only makes sense but has worked far better than John Barnhill dreamed it would.  Look at the parasitic athletic programs at ASU as compared to THE UNIVERSITY of Arkansas.  The policy is senseless only to an ASU fan.  What is your handle on burialgrounds?

After reading this entire thread on a slow day, I see the ASU fans on here, including the fake Hog fans, still cannot come up with one concrete positive thing that would benefit the Razorbacks in playing ASU in anything. ::)

Mark Lericos


Ok, this will be my final post on the thread, and I started the dang thing. For those looking for a concrete benefit to playing ASU, you won't find one in the dollar signs, the wins, etc.

  I've watched other schools in power conferences pull it off, even small states like SC, and have no ill effects.  In fact, their reputation in the state is higher among fans of all schools for having the nads to throw their smaller neighbors a bone every now and then. Anything that casts a school in a good light will help in recruiting down the line, because don't kid yourself, if the SEC and the Hog facilities don't bring a top notch recruit to Arkansas, you don't deserve them. And right now, Arkansas is trying to overturn enough bad publicity to kill a rhino. So ending this long running boycott might be a nice idea.

  Again, it's never happened, so to pontificate what is and what aren't the benefits is futile.  My argument was to try it and see. The fans might enjoy a game of interest, because when scheduling problems happen like this year, you have a nice fallback.  Heck, schedule UCA every once in awhile. Why bother with a directional no-name when you could pound a school people know of.  As for the hatred, ask yourself why so many people listen to shock jocks on the radio, because they love to hate them.

  In the end though, Frank Broyles and whoever else makes this call will NEVER change the thinking because Hog fans will buy tickets to ANY opponent, so they have no fear of losing money,and that my friends, is the business of college football.

  enjoy the weekend.

 

 

Jellohawg

Sorry folks,it's never going to happen!  Even with a new AD! Let's move on to bigger and better things!

astate

July 07, 2007, 10:06:31 pm #222 Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 02:05:51 pm by astate
The only way I see them playing is if the govenor (who is an ASU grad) pushes the agenda using state funding as a "carrot".  It wouldn't surprise me if UA is so determined not to play ASU that they would give up a portion of state funding to avoid the confrontation on the field.

Albert Einswine

Quote from: astate on July 07, 2007, 10:06:31 pm
The only way I see them playing is if the govenor (who is an ASU grad) pushes the agenda using state funding as a "carrott".  It wouldn't surprise me if UA is so determined not to play ASU that they would give up a portion of state funding to avoid the confrontation on the field.



I don't think taking state funding away from the black hole that is ASU athletics is going to evoke enough sympathy from Frank for him to schedule a game with y'all.   ;D ;D
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

 

Cajun Hog

Quote from: astate on July 07, 2007, 10:06:31 pm
The only way I see them playing is if the govenor (who is an ASU grad) pushes the agenda using state funding as a "carrott".  It wouldn't surprise me if UA is so determined not to play ASU that they would give up a portion of state funding to avoid the confrontation on the field.

That GOV. will be a one term and done, if they push it.

SLC

I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

Barman91

July 07, 2007, 11:44:43 pm #226 Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 11:51:12 pm by Fresh Legs™
Having degrees from both schools and as a contributor to both schools, let me weigh in....


I get pissed when I hear ASU fans say "How long will the Hogs run?"  Radical Indian fans have a chip on their shoulders about the U of A.  They cheer every Hog screw-up, every Hog loss, every HDN scandal......

Bottom line is this:  college sports is about fierce rivalries and the occasional upset!  It is about 18-21 year-old men fighting their hearts out for bragging rights, it is about fans being able to crow at the water cooler, it is about fan interest and it is about money.  Which of these factors would not be served by an ASU - U of A rivalry? 

There is absolutely NO logical explanation for these schools not playing. NONE.  I was at the NIT game in Fayetteville in '87 and have NEVER witnessed a better atmosphere in collegiate sports.....EVER....and I have been to many, many college venues.  The game was incredible, the fans were incredible and the entire state reaped the benefit.  Let's get it going.........NOW. 

Edit:  Keep your post civil and clean.

Gaskinswitch

Quote from: Barman91 on July 07, 2007, 11:44:43 pm
Having degrees from both schools and as a contributor to both schools, let me weigh in....

I get pissed when the U of A leans on the JFB policy of not playing in-state schools.  That is a joke and is, in my opinion, a huge black mark on JFB's resume.  What a puss.  If you are the best show in town, you are the best show in town.  Come one, come all, we will kick your ass and shake your hand after we do it.

I get pissed when I hear ASU fans say "How long will the Hogs run?"  Radical Indian fans have a chip on their shoulders about the U of A.  They cheer every Hog screw-up, every Hog loss, every HDN scandal......

Bottom line is this:  college sports is about fierce rivalries and the occasional upset!  It is about 18-21 year-old men fighting their hearts out for bragging rights, it is about fans being able to crow at the water cooler, it is about fan interest and it is about money.  Which of these factors would not be served by an ASU - U of A rivalry? 

There is absolutely NO logical explanation for these schools not playing. NONE.  I was at the NIT game in Fayetteville in '87 and have NEVER witnessed a better atmosphere in collegiate sports.....EVER....and I have been to many, many college venues.  The game was incredible, the fans were incredible and the entire state reaped the benefit.  Let's get it going.........NOW. 

Passing a kidney stone is exciting but I would not want to experience it again.

Since you have a degree at both schools......... I am surprised you don't know the policy of no instate competition is John Barnhill's and not Frank Broyles.

For the umteenth time..........what does The University of Arkansas get out of playing ASU?........Not one doggone thing positive and the possibility of some major negatives.

Tell you what.  I will play you a game of poker.  You bring $500 to the table and I will bring nothing because I have nothing. If I win I get your $500......if you win, you get dick.  Wanna play?

blake

Quote from: SouthpawSensation on July 03, 2007, 05:40:08 pm
I don't see the logic of not playing Arkansas State when Arkansas can schedule three other Sun Belt Conference teams to games and help them with their scheduling (probably giving them a nice check on the side, as well).
Honestly, do you think ASU wants to play the Hogs just to get the Razorbacks' money? Of course not.
Arkansas State just wants a little pride and respect by playing the Hogs. I would much rather see an Arkansas-ASU game with some pride on the line than the Hogs playing the likes of UT-Chattanooga any day of the week.
I agree.

gohawgsgo

Quote from: Hog1961 on July 07, 2007, 10:10:27 pm
Quote from: astate on July 07, 2007, 10:06:31 pm
The only way I see them playing is if the govenor (who is an ASU grad) pushes the agenda using state funding as a "carrott".  It wouldn't surprise me if UA is so determined not to play ASU that they would give up a portion of state funding to avoid the confrontation on the field.

That GOV. will be a one term and done, if they push it.

Who is the man pictured in your avatar?  I'm sure I missed the story, but have seen him on several.  Is a BOT member?

Choctaw Hog

Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:30:07 pm
Quote from: Choctaw Hog on July 06, 2007, 04:02:40 pm
Quote from: astate on July 06, 2007, 11:42:20 am
From reading the post this is the conclusion:

ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt in-state recruiting.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt funding.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu will hurt the power rating.
ua is AFRAID that playing asu can only hurt and not help.

I am beginning to see a pattern here.  UA IS AFRAID.

END OF DISCUSSION

The only thing I'm afraid of is the Razorbacks wasting their time playing the ASWho Indians (new mascot to be named at a later date).  As soon as ASWho joins the SEC, then we will play.
I must have missed Tenn.-Chatanooga's invitation to the SEC.

I thought we were talking about ASWho?  Regardless of how much ASU fans want to play this game it's not going to happen because Arkansas has nothing to gain.  Period!  This game will only be played when ASU joins the SEC and that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be.  GET OVER IT! 

Choctaw Hog

Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 10:02:44 pm
Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:57:41 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:43:05 pm
Quote from: NEastArkie on July 06, 2007, 04:40:09 pm
Quote from: Kicking Wing on July 06, 2007, 04:28:53 pm
I just don't buy the excuses or the doom and gloom forecast.  It doesn't hurt Tennessee to play Memphis or MTSU.  It doesn't hurt LSU to play ULM, Tulane, ULL, etc.  It doesn't hurt Michigan to play Central Michigan.  Vanderbilt plays and loses to MTSU regularly.  Tennessee lost to Memphis and one the national title the next year.

Bottom line is that there is a fear that UA MIGHT lose to ASU and they would rather avoid the unlikely chance of that happening. 

The truth of the matter is that UA would win almost every single time just like they do against the rest of the Sun Belt teams they play every year.  It wouldn't cost them any fans to go out and beat ASU.  I can't believe that is even considered as a reason. 

UA can schedule whomever they want.  ASU would not demand any more than any other Sun Belt team and if they did, then UA shouldn't play them.  As long as they are worried about the distant possibility of losing a game or a recruit then so be it.

Why are you wasting so much time over something you consider so inconsequential?  Why does it even matter?  If you don't buy the "excuse" of the "doom & gloom" forecast, that's fine, but not only has every AD the UA has had since 1940 bought it, they're not alone among AD's who believe it.  Bobby Dodd believed it but couldn't do anything about it in Georgia.  Johnny Vaught & Bear Bryant believed it, but couldn't do anything about it in their states, either.  BTW, "doom & gloom" is simply your characterization of the UA's reasoning.  The UA & its fans who support the policy simply see it as the better of two choices.  Sounds like you want this game a whole lot more than you let on.  Maybe you think it will help ASU/hurt the UA a lot more than you let on, too.
Thank you, Swami for reading my mind.  I thought this was a board for discussion, so I was discussing.  Whether UA keeps refusing to play ASU or UCA or not really doesn't affect me much or the respective programs.  I, along with the vast majority of Arkansans just think it would be fun to watch.

One needn't be a Swami to read something as simple as that.  Unlike you, however, I don't pretend to read the minds of the "vast majority of Arkansans."  Perhaps you think some online poll can clue you in on that, but I doubt it.  But whether it'd be fun probably depends on your point of view & how the game would come out.  You probably wouldn't enjoy a 60-0 butt kicking & I wouldn't enjoy a 28-10 win. 

BTW, the UA hasn't won "almost" every game against the Sunbelt.  It has never lost to a Sunbelt team.  ASU has never beaten a team from a BCS conference.  (Well, I guess you can count one win against Ole Miss in 1912 or whenever it was.) Given that history, I don't think its the fear of a loss the UA is concerned about.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......... I'm sorry, did you say something?  Honestly, every single poll ever done on the subject has shown that most believe it's silly to avoid scheduling a game.  I have never heard one single person that wasn't of the Rick Schaeffer ilk that thought the "policy" made any sense.  People that aren't originally from this state always find it laughable when they find out that such a policy exists.

People that aren't originally from this state always find it laughable when they find out that such a policy exists.

I'm originally from Oklahoma (Choctaw) and I would find it laughable if the Hogs played ASU.  Be careful when you make such a statement because it's not true and it makes you appear like you don't know what you are talking about.

Mark Lericos

Quote from: Fresh Legs™ on July 08, 2007, 11:48:43 pm
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 07, 2007, 06:18:53 pm
Anything that casts a school in a good light will help in recruiting down the line, because don't kid yourself, if the SEC and the Hog facilities don't bring a top notch recruit to Arkansas, you don't deserve them. And right now, Arkansas is trying to overturn enough bad publicity to kill a rhino. So ending this long running boycott might be a nice idea.

I sure think you are casting a lot of eggs in one basket, namely the goodwill basket.  Do you really think folks across the country are going to perceive us differently because we play an in-state school that is barely Division I eligible?  I'm sure it would be a headline on the website of ESPN, CBS, and CNNSI.   ::)

I can't see in any tangible way that playing this team overcomes all of the offseason turmoil or even makes a noticeable dent.  Why would people care? 

There is no advantage.  It's not going to be a monetary benefit, it's not going to help us recruit any better, and it sure wouldn't help some out of state college football fan in Ohio perceive us any different. 

We're talking about (predominantly) guys who love college football.  This isn't the view with Barbara Walters. 

Fresh Legs, I like how you can make blanket statements about a game that has never really happened.  You either run the NCAA, or have years and years of in-depth football analysis. Or you're just guessing.

  But I base my statements off experience, and seeing how many other schools have implemented the games, and the BENEFITS exist. It DOES help recruiting. It does have a monetary benefit (you going to sell more UT_Chattanooga-Hogs t-shirts, or merchandise from an ASU-UA rivalry game?)

  Not to mention I never said it gains respect NATIONALLY. Read the post. It can have an effect within the state of Arkansas, with it's fans and it's recruits.

  I don't claim to know for sure how it would work HERE, because IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. But that's my point, right now Arkansas has a hideous public image. And anything of interest certainly works towards improving that image. Try the game and see what the response will be.  Or don't, and keep playing worthless cupcakes no one has ever heard of.

Peace.

Gaskinswitch

July 09, 2007, 11:42:07 am #233 Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 11:45:46 am by Gaskinswitch
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 09, 2007, 09:22:53 am
Quote from: Fresh Legs™ on July 08, 2007, 11:48:43 pm
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 07, 2007, 06:18:53 pm
Anything that casts a school in a good light will help in recruiting down the line, because don't kid yourself, if the SEC and the Hog facilities don't bring a top notch recruit to Arkansas, you don't deserve them. And right now, Arkansas is trying to overturn enough bad publicity to kill a rhino. So ending this long running boycott might be a nice idea.

I sure think you are casting a lot of eggs in one basket, namely the goodwill basket.  Do you really think folks across the country are going to perceive us differently because we play an in-state school that is barely Division I eligible?  I'm sure it would be a headline on the website of ESPN, CBS, and CNNSI.   ::)

I can't see in any tangible way that playing this team overcomes all of the offseason turmoil or even makes a noticeable dent.  Why would people care? 

There is no advantage.  It's not going to be a monetary benefit, it's not going to help us recruit any better, and it sure wouldn't help some out of state college football fan in Ohio perceive us any different. 

We're talking about (predominantly) guys who love college football.  This isn't the view with Barbara Walters. 

Fresh Legs, I like how you can make blanket statements about a game that has never really happened.  You either run the NCAA, or have years and years of in-depth football analysis. Or you're just guessing.

  But I base my statements off experience, and seeing how many other schools have implemented the games, and the BENEFITS exist. It DOES help recruiting. It does have a monetary benefit (you going to sell more UT_Chattanooga-Hogs t-shirts, or merchandise from an ASU-UA rivalry game?)

  Not to mention I never said it gains respect NATIONALLY. Read the post. It can have an effect within the state of Arkansas, with it's fans and it's recruits.

  I don't claim to know for sure how it would work HERE, because IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. But that's my point, right now Arkansas has a hideous public image. And anything of interest certainly works towards improving that image. Try the game and see what the response will be.  Or don't, and keep playing worthless cupcakes no one has ever heard of.

Peace.

Where you from boy?  You sure ain't from around here!

Is Troy a worthless cupcake?

Your statement that Arkansas playing ASU would help recruiting and its hideous image within the State of Arkansas tells me (Respectively) you don't have a clue as what  you are talking about. Your experiences elswhere, don't mean dick here.....this is Arkansas.     We Arkansans are unique, as is our state.  Just because others do it differently, does not mean it is the best way.

Many people outside our state only know Arkansas for 4 things.  These are in no certain order: 1957 Little Rock school desegregation, The Arkansas Razorbacks, Wal-Mart, and President Bill Clinton.  Obviously, the 1st one is negative to our state but the last 3 speak for themselves.

If you are a Razorback fan and want what is best for our University, you understand and agree with the policy.  If you just moved here, are an injun fan, a casual fan or just don't care, the policy probably does not fit you agenda.  As to just how well the policy has worked,  look at the current status quo.


NEastArkie

July 09, 2007, 11:59:24 am #235 Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:04:06 pm by NEastArkie
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 09, 2007, 09:22:53 am
Quote from: Fresh Legs™ on July 08, 2007, 11:48:43 pm
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 07, 2007, 06:18:53 pm
Anything that casts a school in a good light will help in recruiting down the line, because don't kid yourself, if the SEC and the Hog facilities don't bring a top notch recruit to Arkansas, you don't deserve them. And right now, Arkansas is trying to overturn enough bad publicity to kill a rhino. So ending this long running boycott might be a nice idea.

I sure think you are casting a lot of eggs in one basket, namely the goodwill basket.  Do you really think folks across the country are going to perceive us differently because we play an in-state school that is barely Division I eligible?  I'm sure it would be a headline on the website of ESPN, CBS, and CNNSI.   ::)

I can't see in any tangible way that playing this team overcomes all of the offseason turmoil or even makes a noticeable dent.  Why would people care? 

There is no advantage.  It's not going to be a monetary benefit, it's not going to help us recruit any better, and it sure wouldn't help some out of state college football fan in Ohio perceive us any different. 

We're talking about (predominantly) guys who love college football.  This isn't the view with Barbara Walters. 

Fresh Legs, I like how you can make blanket statements about a game that has never really happened.  You either run the NCAA, or have years and years of in-depth football analysis. Or you're just guessing.

  But I base my statements off experience, and seeing how many other schools have implemented the games, and the BENEFITS exist. It DOES help recruiting. It does have a monetary benefit (you going to sell more UT_Chattanooga-Hogs t-shirts, or merchandise from an ASU-UA rivalry game?)

  Not to mention I never said it gains respect NATIONALLY. Read the post. It can have an effect within the state of Arkansas, with it's fans and it's recruits.

  I don't claim to know for sure how it would work HERE, because IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. But that's my point, right now Arkansas has a hideous public image. And anything of interest certainly works towards improving that image. Try the game and see what the response will be.  Or don't, and keep playing worthless cupcakes no one has ever heard of.

Peace.

Fresh legs is right.  Any additional revenue from a game with ASU would be negligible at best.  We lose a lot more money from playing two games a year in LR than we'd ever pick up by playing ASU.  After all, even the UT-Chat game is essentially sold out.  While there might be more no-shows at that game, the tickets are still sold.  If money were our only concern, we'd move all the games to RRS. Our football revenue in 2005 was nearly $29M.  In 2006 it was probably over $30M.  An extra $100K, even if such a game would generate that much more, is insignificant. 

I don't see how you can have any "experience" with intrastate rivalries unless you've been high in some major athletic dept.  The best you can have is some observations about them which may or may not be accurate.  You've cited South Carolina as an example of a school that is successful with intrastate games.  I'd suggest that So Carolina would be much better as an athletic program if it didn't have to fight with Clemson.  That's also true for Clemson.

So while you're partially correct that this experiment has never been tried, one needn't try everything to believe it's a bad idea. (I've never played Russian roulette.  The odds are 6-1 nothing bad would happen to me, but the upside is that things stay the same & the downside isn't appealing.  A UA/ASU game isn't Russian roulette, but the analogy is only meant to illustrate the risk/reward proposition.) You're only partially correct because the UA hasn't played ASU in football.  However, the thing that initiated this polcy was a very close game the UA had with some in-state school back in the 30's.  Our administration at the time decided we could build our program much better if we instituted a policy of playing no in-state school.  This is consistent with the desires of almost every major athletic program.  Unfortunately for them, they had games forced on them by legislatures or preexisting conference ties.  Ole Miss & MSU no longer play So. Miss.  Administrators of both have said they regretted ever doing so.  Alabama won't play other schools in Alabama except Auburn.

Arkansas does not have a hideous public image, but if you think the events of the last few months that have tarnished its image would somehow be undone by playing ASU, you're making a link that I fail to understand. 

The one thing that seems pretty clear to me is that as a graduate of Troy, your heart is with the little-brother, sunbelt-type teams.  You've got a right to feel that way, but you're hardly in a position to tell Razorback fans, much less people who've spent years building the UA athletic dept into what it is, that they have no idea what they're doing.  (And, yeah, it's a highly successful athletic dept despite recent downturns in football & basketball.  All one has to do realize it is to look at the history of every sport & the current facilities each enjoys.)  I'm sorry, but a young sports reporter who is new to the state isn't someone I'm going to look to for ideas on how to run or improve a multi-million dollar sports business.  The opinions you present as "facts" don't impress me, either. 

I will say this. If I were an ASU fan, I'd be pushing hard for a game with the UA.  I don't blame them for wanting it.  It's about the only thing that gets people interested in what they're doing.  The best way for ASU to increase their revenues by $1M is by cutting costs.  If they'd move from D1 to D1aa with UCA, their football deficit should go from the -$2M it is now to about -$1M.  UCA & UAPB lose half as much on football as ASU and they don't have to play Texas & Tenn to do it.


Mark Lericos


I don't know why I keep getting drawn into these posts.  Arkie, you make some sound arguments, and I agree with many of them.

Again, for the record, I have no dog in the fight. Sun Belt isn't high on my radar, neither is ASU.  I simply brought up a valid topic when many fans on here were criticizing the schedule!

  I asked why not play an in-state team?  A lot of people hate it, some people love it.  That's fine either way.  I'm not telling Hog athletics to wake up and schedule them.  Just thought it was interesting how the idea of playing them is taboo.  Curiousity I guess.

   And of course, one mention of outside schools doing it a certain way circles the Arkansas wagons of defending their state and policies.

  Hey, last year I had to sift through e-mail after e-mail about cupcake opponents. Same this season.  A good reporter listens to what people are saying, and raises questions.

  Everyone chill out. It's obvious now, by talking to a lot of insiders and media types that this will never happen.  So why waste any more breath or bandwidth on it.

  Sorry if I rattled any cages.  Except for Fresh Legs.   ;D

NEastArkie

Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 09, 2007, 12:12:04 pm

I don't know why I keep getting drawn into these posts.  Arkie, you make some sound arguments, and I agree with many of them.

Again, for the record, I have no dog in the fight. Sun Belt isn't high on my radar, neither is ASU.  I simply brought up a valid topic when many fans on here were criticizing the schedule!

  I asked why not play an in-state team?  A lot of people hate it, some people love it.  That's fine either way.  I'm not telling Hog athletics to wake up and schedule them.  Just thought it was interesting how the idea of playing them is taboo.  Curiousity I guess.

   And of course, one mention of outside schools doing it a certain way circles the Arkansas wagons of defending their state and policies.

  Hey, last year I had to sift through e-mail after e-mail about cupcake opponents. Same this season.  A good reporter listens to what people are saying, and raises questions.

  Everyone chill out. It's obvious now, by talking to a lot of insiders and media types that this will never happen.  So why waste any more breath or bandwidth on it.

  Sorry if I rattled any cages.  Except for Fresh Legs.   ;D

When most people complain about cupcake opponents, they're not thinking about improving our schedule with the likes of ASU.  An SEC team needs 3 cupcakes if it's going to play a 12 game season.  Last year we played 14 games.  Not only did we play 8 SEC teams in the regular season, we opened with top-5 USC, ended with top-5 Wisconsin, and added NC UF in the SECCG.  With that kind of schedule, we don't need fewer cupcakes, we need more.  People who scream for no cupcakes don't appreciate the physicality of football at the SEC level.

This year we have 4 cupcakes, but that's due more to a logistical problem than anything else.  We've added Texas to the schedule, but they couldn't play us this year.  That meant we had to add a team that wouldn't require a home/home.  Ironically, we will make a lot more money with the 4 cupcakes than with Texas.  The cupcake games are almost as sold out, but since we don't have to return the game, we keep nearly $4M in revenue.  When we play Texas, we'll get the $4M in revenue, but the next year when we play in Austin, we won't get any.

BTW, I was in error in my last post about UCA's football deficit.  UCA had $1.3M in football revenue last year & had less than $1M in football expense.  They actually made money on football.  ASU had $1.8M in football revenue & had had $3.6M in football expense.

Feralhog

Question should be, why WOULD we ever play ASU? 
Seer, Sage, Soothsayer and former coach finder for the Tejas Longhorns.......Feralhog the Magnificent

wbs gurl

Quote from: Fresh Legs™ on July 08, 2007, 11:48:43 pm
Quote from: Mark Lericos on July 07, 2007, 06:18:53 pm
Anything that casts a school in a good light will help in recruiting down the line, because don't kid yourself, if the SEC and the Hog facilities don't bring a top notch recruit to Arkansas, you don't deserve them. And right now, Arkansas is trying to overturn enough bad publicity to kill a rhino. So ending this long running boycott might be a nice idea.

I sure think you are casting a lot of eggs in one basket, namely the goodwill basket.  Do you really think folks across the country are going to perceive us differently because we play an in-state school that is barely Division I eligible?  I'm sure it would be a headline on the website of ESPN, CBS, and CNNSI.   ::)

I can't see in any tangible way that playing this team overcomes all of the offseason turmoil or even makes a noticeable dent.  Why would people care? 

There is no advantage.  It's not going to be a monetary benefit, it's not going to help us recruit any better, and it sure wouldn't help some out of state college football fan in Ohio perceive us any different. 

We're talking about (predominantly) guys who love college football.  This isn't the view with Barbara Walters. 

But it sure would be fun to have a little in-state rivalry.  Of course I'm just a girl who loves college football, and I should probably be watching the View with Barbara Walters.

hillhog