Spring recruiting "scramble"

[azhog10]

WarPig, the most knowledgeable and reputable person on this site just told me that he had not heard that about Dykes saying that anywhere. The only thing once again that I said was a report made on here that Portis's GF had said he was returning. I did not say Dykes said anything. I just asked you for some facts ..... not hearsay..... first, second , or third hand information. Too often people add a word , drop a word, or intentionally or unintentionally change the whole meaning and create whoppers. I question that Dykes said anything Furthermore, I would not put Coach Dykes and the word liar both in the same sentence. The person I asked did not give me permission to quote him. I asked ,and he didn't respond ,so I would rather error on the side of right and not put his name out here. Check your info ,and if you can prove what you said, I sure would like to hear it. If you trust everything you hear or read in a newspaper , your life will be full of woe.

This is all a moot point, however many were told, or strongly believed for whatever reason that Portis was coming back as close to a few days before he made his decision. We can all monday morning quarterback this thing to death. It's an unfortunate part of college sports where you have to try to take a kids word, or his emotion into account and hope that things fall the way you had planned. If not, you have to make the best of it all and put together the most competitive team you can and go with it.

Simple truth is CMA will play the guys he has, and will do his best to put a winning product on the floor. It won't satisfy everyone, and others will always think they knew more than those closest to the situation. Is what it is and it's time we support the players we have and hope that we bring in great talen in 2016.

[HoopS]

Really isn't rocket science. And in the end, looks like we've come out ok. Will be curious to see this group come together.

[Hawg Red]

Really isn't rocket science. And in the end, looks like we've come out ok. Will be curious to see this group come together.

Based Kouassi?

I'm all for the signing and all, but that's kinda like the bare minimum that could have been done. The true victory of the late period was not signing people just to fill spots.

[WarPig88]

WarPig, the most knowledgeable and reputable person on this site just told me that he had not heard that about Dykes saying that anywhere. The only thing once again that I said was a report made on here that Portis's GF had said he was returning. I did not say Dykes said anything. I just asked you for some facts ..... not hearsay..... first, second , or third hand information. Too often people add a word , drop a word, or intentionally or unintentionally change the whole meaning and create whoppers. I question that Dykes said anything Furthermore, I would not put Coach Dykes and the word liar both in the same sentence. The person I asked did not give me permission to quote him. I asked ,and he didn't respond ,so I would rather error on the side of right and not put his name out here. Check your info ,and if you can prove what you said, I sure would like to hear it. If you trust everything you hear or read in a newspaper , your life will be full of woe.

I am waiting for your apology and for you to admit you are wrong about the coaches having prior knowledge about Portis and Qualls leaving.

Evidently Mike Irwin heard also. I guess that calls into question your "source"?

No one can know everything, but if you would listen more, you might learn something you didn't know before.

[HoopS]

Based Kouassi?

I'm all for the signing and all, but that's kinda like the bare minimum that could have been done. The true victory of the late period was not signing people just to fill spots.

based on Whitt, Kapita, Hannahs and Kouassi. Now it is time to see if we can do anything or not. I will look at Thomas as part of '16; just how I see it.

Specifically on Kouassi though. I'm good with it. Big man whose been in the weight room a few years. Knows his role. Won't be jacking up 3's. Bang inside, grab boards, block some shots, effect some other shots, use his 5 fouls if needed. Then he's off the books.

[Hawg Red]

based on Whitt, Kapita, Hannahs and Kouassi. Now it is time to see if we can do anything or not. I will look at Thomas as part of '16; just how I see it.

Specifically on Kouassi though. I'm good with it. Big man whose been in the weight room a few years. Knows his role. Won't be jacking up 3's. Bang inside, grab boards, block some shots, effect some other shots, use his 5 fouls if needed. Then he's off the books.

Well, the title of the thread is "Spring recruiting 'scramble'" so I assumed you were only talking about spring recruiting.

[HoopS]

I figured that's what you meant.

I'm just speaking in general. When we take the floor next season, we will have these 4 new faces. Curious to see them all together.


Edit -- I'm also not one to get worked up about which thread a post ends up in as long as it is on the general topic.

[jjdlc]

The true victory of the late period was not signing people just to fill spots.

This I can agree with.  Late period signing is always a crap shoot, never know whats going to be available.

As far as Kouassi, I think he can contribute.  One thing is definitely for sure, as a team, we are going to look a lot different this year, and I think Kouassi can give us something that will work with the personnel we have.  Worst case though, he sits on the bench for a year, and we have the scholarship open for what appears to be a very fertile recruiting year for us.

[Biggus Piggus]

I am waiting for your apology and for you to admit you are wrong about the coaches having prior knowledge about Portis and Qualls leaving.

Evidently Mike Irwin heard also. I guess that calls into question your "source"?

No one can know everything, but if you would listen more, you might learn something you didn't know before.

Regardless of what Portis might have been saying, the coaching staff should have known he was likely to leave. NBA teams scouted him all season with the view that he would be in the 2015 class not any later than that. They had reason to believe Portis was going to come out after year two.

Qualls's situation was personal + probably should have been visible too. He's the guy who truly hasn't been replaced, too.

[WarPig88]

Regardless of what Portis might have been saying, the coaching staff should have known he was likely to leave. NBA teams scouted him all season with the view that he would be in the 2015 class not any later than that. They had reason to believe Portis was going to come out after year two.

Qualls's situation was personal + probably should have been visible too. He's the guy who truly hasn't been replaced, too.

He may have been "likely" to leave, but Portis himself was saying that he was staying literally days before he announced as was Qualls.

You can't just go oversigning and then tell people to hit the road when YOU guessed wrong. This isn't Kentucky and you have to work harder to overcome the natural disadvantages here.

Adding a totally avoidable negative to your personal reputation does nothing to help your future recruiting especially when you need some guys to develop over time to make your program go.

I am sure that they new he was likely to go, but until he actually let them know, there was nothing they could do.

[Biggus Piggus]

They had every reason to believe -- in January -- that Portis was gone. Recruiting was in idle until March.

And as far as pushing players out, it has to be done. Can't afford to carry dead weight, and this roster has some.

[mhuff]

I am waiting for your apology and for you to admit you are wrong about the coaches having prior knowledge about Portis and Qualls leaving.

Evidently Mike Irwin heard also. I guess that calls into question your "source"?

No one can know everything, but if you would listen more, you might learn something you didn't know before.

I came back on board and said I appreciated you finally giving a source. I had remembered the girlfriend statement on this board ,but I did not remember that Mike Irwin was attached to it. I will not apologize to you for being a real DH ( not designated hitter .) If you would READ more, you might see that all I asked for was references. I never called anyone a liar. You are the goofball that did that. I will continue to believe my source as I believe him to be the best source on this board as stated. He only said that he had not heard it. He didn't say that it wasn't said. Hey, just go stick your head in the toilet and flush it. It may wash the crap out of your eyes when a person asks for references.

[jjdlc]

They had every reason to believe -- in January -- that Portis was gone.

How can you justify that statement when Portis was saying he was coming back? 

As far as NBA scouts are concerned, they were scouting him last year to a lesser extent.

It's easy to sit on the outside, now that he has left, and say they should have seen it coming, but outside the few tidbits we've gotten via girlfriend and Dykes, which do not support that view, we don't really know what was transpiring between CMA and BP leading up to his departure. 

[hawgfan4life]

Biggus,

You really think that they could have started recruiting a name player in March or even starting half way through the year and been successful with that strategy?  You are right that anybody with half a brain could know that there was always a strong chance Portis would leave this year.  It was a question whether he would return after his FR season.

However, until he declared, the coaches were recruiting with the possibility of a scholarship available.  How many big time players are sitting around waiting for something to open up at AR?  We have not been relevant in basketball in these players lifetime they can remember until this season and they started visualizing and fantasizing about being recruited and playing for a lot of schools several years ago.  I doubt AR was ever in those mental visions. 

As far as Qualls goes, he wasn't even a thought to go to the NBA until the last half of this season except for some fans who were enamored with him and built him up in their own minds to be more than he was as a player.  Same principle applies with the recruits as it did for Portis.

There is no way to know when they learned Babb would be leaving and the same principle applies as Qualls.  It would have been last half of the season at best and AR is not going to have a lot of success recruiting top players with I may have a scholarship for you if you will just wait and be patient for a while until I know for sure.

AR signed elite players in the fall and they are on elite players for next years recruiting class.  I don't think they were in a position to be in on too many players for the spring and the ones they had a chance were long gone by the time they knew they had spots.

There is only one scenario that could have eliminated them missing on players in the spring and this to have recruited with the determination they would cut a player if needed to sign a player they had recruited for a potential opening.

If you truly believe that cutting players is a good option, I feel bad for your outlook on life and college athletics.  There is a time and place for coaches to ask players to leave but forcing them out simply because you believe you might have found someone better is the bottom of the list and is horrible practice.  Any coach that is willing to do this is not the coach I want.  I would rather have a mediocre spring signing and risk one season short a player or two than even compromise on those principles.

I don't think MA was caught unaware, unprepared, or did a poor job.  I believe he did the best he could for the circumstances and he refused to compromise on the right way to do things.  Thank goodness he has conviction and principles.

[ArkansasI]

He may have been "likely" to leave, but Portis himself was saying that he was staying literally days before he announced as was Qualls.

We all understand that it is difficult to recruit when the number of available scholarships is unknown.  The criticism is that the Hogs appeared to have no options this spring.  Kapita committed in the spring... who else were we recruiting if Ted hadn't signed with Arkansas?

The only sense I can make of recruiting is that Kapita must have told the staff that he would be a Hog after his visit.  Otherwise, I don't recall any evidence to suggest that the Hogs had connected with other high school recruits.

Can anyone name another high school recruit that was looking to visit Arkansas this spring?  Who did Arkansas allow to drop off its recruiting efforts when Kapita committed?

I would hope that we could tell a player with a decent skill set - somebody that was looking to play at Lousiana Tech, Missouri State, Tulsa, etc. - to please hold off on his commitment until a couple of players decide their futures.

We might not be able to take this approach with players that are deciding between the Hogs and Kentucky, but we ought to be able to do this with players that are considering low majors.

You can't just go oversigning and then tell people to hit the road when YOU guessed wrong. This isn't Kentucky and you have to work harder to overcome the natural disadvantages here.

You're right...  Arkansas has to work harder to overcome.  As great a job as the staff did in signing Jimmy and Ted, I can't tell that they did anything to address the possibility of Bobby leaving early.  We were immediately looking to sign guys that were transferring programs or juco guys that might have problems qualifying.

Can we afford to be so careful?  Perhaps they did more, but I don't know what players they talked to that decided they'd rather play elsewhere than wait and have a shot at being a Razorback.

I watched a player from Murray State get drafted in the lottery last night.  There are good basketball players out there that would rather wait for a chance to play for the Razorbacks (new practice facility, in the SEC, larger fanbase, etc.) than play for a program that has less to offer.  It's the coaching staff's job to find them.

Adding a totally avoidable negative to your personal reputation does nothing to help your future recruiting especially when you need some guys to develop over time to make your program go.

This is ridiculous - just be honest with a player.  If the player is not good enough for a smaller program to hold a slot for him, he's probably not a guy that we would be talking about.

I am sure that they new he was likely to go, but until he actually let them know, there was nothing they could do.

You're beginning to contradict yourself - and I know you don't want to do that.

The real question should be, "Do all other programs do nothing but wait for players to make a decision before they begin recruiting?"  Maybe that isn't what happened, but it sure looks like it to me.

By the way, I'm not knocking anyone we signed.  I hope they kill it next year.

[mhuff]

Looks like even with the new practice facility, we are having trouble getting people to come visit. We need a recruiter..... That is the long and short of the matter. Seems like it is the same story every spring. Of course it wasn't when MA came because it was in  the spring and the class was already recruited. We just had to keep them.

[Biggus Piggus]

Biggus,

You really think that they could have started recruiting a name player in March or even starting half way through the year and been successful with that strategy?

Ever miss a friggin' point? Not even worth responding if you can't even get that one.

[lefty08]

Ever miss a friggin' point? Not even worth responding if you can't even get that one.

Not sure if you even think this is relevant, but at one point this spring the mock drafts quit showing Portis in this year's draft and were projecting him for next year. Seems even many pro scouts believed at one point he was coming back, at least to the point where his name was pulled from this year's mocks

[Cinco de Hogo]

Simple question,

Shouldn't coaches at the level Arkansas is have a plan for each and every player and out of the hundreds of HS players have contact with players fir ever position.  I would think you would be sending letters, gauging interest, attending tourny's etc. 

How does KY replaces players they don't know are leaving?  You talk to the players, keep them informed about what you expect to happen or know will happen.  I bet guy eat that up when a coaches lets them on the inside. 

Just let them know you want them but know you have to cover all the bases until someone commits.  That stuff isn't any surprise to these players.

I know someone will say "how do you know the coaches aren't doing that".  Well then we get back to were are the offers.  Offering a player and then not having room for him because another target commits first is not a crime, nor is it even any kind of honor or moral dilemma.  Neither the coaches or the players can know how recruiting will shake out ahead of time but I know their are 25-30 good targets out there that should be showing an Arkansas offer even if we only need three. 

Unlike in football there are 300 schools these kids can go to that have a chance of making the Tourny and get all the attention they need to go pro.  Because of that the level of work needed to get 3-5 players is probably ever bit as demanding as getting 25 in football.

[lefty08]

Can people please stop expecting MA to be able to do anything the way UK is able to?  That is years away at best.  Thanks

[farmhawg]

Can people please stop expecting MA to be able to do anything the way UK is able to?  That is years away at best.  Thanks

Doesn't fit the agenda.

[k.c.hawg]

Simple question,

Shouldn't coaches at the level Arkansas is have a plan for each and every player and out of the hundreds of HS players have contact with players fir ever position.  I would think you would be sending letters, gauging interest, attending tourny's etc. 

How does KY replaces players they don't know are leaving?  You talk to the players, keep them informed about what you expect to happen or know will happen.  I bet guy eat that up when a coaches lets them on the inside. 

Just let them know you want them but know you have to cover all the bases until someone commits.  That stuff isn't any surprise to these players.

I know someone will say "how do you know the coaches aren't doing that".  Well then we get back to were are the offers.  Offering a player and then not having room for him because another target commits first is not a crime, nor is it even any kind of honor or moral dilemma.  Neither the coaches or the players can know how recruiting will shake out ahead of time but I know their are 25-30 good targets out there that should be showing an Arkansas offer even if we only need three. 

Unlike in football there are 300 schools these kids can go to that have a chance of making the Tourny and get all the attention they need to go pro.  Because of that the level of work needed to get 3-5 players is probably ever bit as demanding as getting 25 in football.

Are you seriously thinking that Arkansas is in the same recruiting position as Kentucky? Unbelievable!!

[Cinco de Hogo]

Are you seriously thinking that Arkansas is in the same recruiting position as Kentucky? Unbelievable!!

Is that all you freaking took from that?

Your right, unbelievable!

That IS the reason we have to do the work, because we aren't KY.

Intentionally misunderstanding the meaning of another posters thought just so you can be obnoxious is some peoples speciality on all message boards.

BFYI, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Coach Cal has contact with more players than CMA in spite of just having to wiggle his finger to get the very best.  If you aren't out working the circuit your not getting a head start on the next best thing.

[HoopS]

Do we actually know who all we contacted and when?

Also, some prospects shut down recruiting during their season.

[hawgfan4life]

Ever miss a friggin' point? Not even worth responding if you can't even get that one.

You ever miss a friggin point?  AR had no open position to recruit for and could only tell recruits we have a spot for you if we get an opening.  Top players don't wait around on possible spots from AR.  AR is not a big name program anymore to recruits.  We have improved our image and are on the way up but we are not a program that players are sitting around thinking they hope something opens up and I am willing to wait on it to open.

Please tell me how the coaches were supposed to recruit for a possible opening!

The ONLY OPTION was to recruit with the mindset they would sign and cut if needed.  That is horrible practice.  If you fail to understand that point, I feel for you.

I understand your point but it is absurd.  AR recruited very well in the Fall are on outstanding recruits for next year.  There were no good options available in the spring.  That is the only point to be seen!

[Biggus Piggus]

You ever miss a friggin point?  AR had no open position to recruit for and could only tell recruits we have a spot for you if we get an opening.  Top players don't wait around on possible spots from AR.  AR is not a big name program anymore to recruits.  We have improved our image and are on the way up but we are not a program that players are sitting around thinking they hope something opens up and I am willing to wait on it to open.

Please tell me how the coaches were supposed to recruit for a possible opening!

The ONLY OPTION was to recruit with the mindset they would sign and cut if needed.  That is horrible practice.  If you fail to understand that point, I feel for you.

I understand your point but it is absurd.  AR recruited very well in the Fall are on outstanding recruits for next year.  There were no good options available in the spring.  That is the only point to be seen!

God. Why did you even respond?

You asked me, "You really think that they could have started recruiting a name player in March or even starting half way through the year and been successful with that strategy?"

If you had gotten the point, you would not have asked that question.

OF COURSE you don't start recruiting at that point. You never stop. You have real recruiting relationships built with valuable targets + keep building them throughout for as long as those players are available. They have to be seriously thinking about coming to Arkansas, or they are not real recruiting targets. How do you think other schools reach March on the final list for undecided top 50 players?

That WAS the point, man. They should have known a long time ago. You can't ask the kid 1:1 what he is going to do. Under that pressure he is going to tell the coach what he wants to hear. If they had any perspective at all about the first round opportunity for Portis, they would have been planning for his departure last year. People around Portis were saying for years that he was only going to play college ball for two seasons.

[Cinco de Hogo]

God. Why did you even respond?

You asked me, "You really think that they could have started recruiting a name player in March or even starting half way through the year and been successful with that strategy?"

If you had gotten the point, you would not have asked that question.

OF COURSE you don't start recruiting at that point. You never stop. You have real recruiting relationships built with valuable targets + keep building them throughout for as long as those players are available. They have to be seriously thinking about coming to Arkansas, or they are not real recruiting targets. How do you think other schools reach March on the final list for undecided top 50 players?

That WAS the point, man. They should have known a long time ago. You can't ask the kid 1:1 what he is going to do. Under that pressure he is going to tell the coach what he wants to hear. If they had any perspective at all about the first round opportunity for Portis, they would have been planning for his departure last year. People around Portis were saying for years that he was only going to play college ball for two seasons.

+1

You never stop recruiting, keep building those relationships.  Who knows how it's gonna all shake out.  The sure way to running out of options is not to have any.

If we can't be Kentucky then second place is a good place to be but we got to recruit better.

[HoopS]

I have asked before but where has it been said that we stopped recruiting?

Also, to address Portis: he was a very special player. He cannot be replaced perfectly. You replace him with several others stepping up. You also have to remember that no 2 teams are going to be exactly the same. This team will take on a new look. Guys like Hannahs and Miles need to contribute. Whitt and Beard need to be able to form a great duo. Bell needs to become the consistent shooter he can be. Warkins will take on a larger role. Williams needs to become more consistent.

We won't directly replace Bobby. The makeup of this team will be different. Maybe that'll be ok too. Maybe it won't. If we suck terribly, MA will know about it.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I have asked before but where has it been said that we stopped recruiting?

Also, to address Portis: he was a very special player. He cannot be replaced perfectly. You replace him with several others stepping up. You also have to remember that no 2 teams are going to be exactly the same. This team will take on a new look. Guys like Hannahs and Miles need to contribute. Whitt and Beard need to be able to form a great duo. Bell needs to become the consistent shooter he can be. Warkins will take on a larger role. Williams needs to become more consistent.

We won't directly replace Bobby. The makeup of this team will be different. Maybe that'll be ok too. Maybe it won't. If we suck terribly, MA will know about it.

That's all true too but we're not CMA so it's just opinions which are like...  Should it be a topic or not going into the fifth year of a tenor?  Seems it has always been.

[HoopS]

Should it be a topic? I don't know. MB's will always have an array of topics. I don't have an issue with the topic. I just think maybe he likes the makeup of what we have or if he didn't, we absolutely would see us scrambling. We aren't. Or at least to me, we aren't.  If we were, we'd be offering more kids. I absolutely think we would have offered Allen had things played out differently but he stuck with his original choice. I am glad we aren't throwing scholarships to anyone. Rather do what we've done and that's have a nice fall class, add a big who won't stay on the books long, have Thomas ready for the following season and keep working on the '16 class that's full of potential. Now, if he spits the bit with that class, that's when you will see more folks begin to worry more. Not yet. I see us as adding 4 new players to the mix for '15. I'm good with that number. I know none of them are Bobby reincarnated. I'm willing to watch what our coach actually does with this bunch and see how he recruits this next class.  I know some have more pressing concerns right now. That's cool. I just don't.

[hawgfan4life]

God. Why did you even respond?

You asked me, "You really think that they could have started recruiting a name player in March or even starting half way through the year and been successful with that strategy?"

If you had gotten the point, you would not have asked that question.

OF COURSE you don't start recruiting at that point. You never stop. You have real recruiting relationships built with valuable targets + keep building them throughout for as long as those players are available. They have to be seriously thinking about coming to Arkansas, or they are not real recruiting targets. How do you think other schools reach March on the final list for undecided top 50 players?

That WAS the point, man. They should have known a long time ago. You can't ask the kid 1:1 what he is going to do. Under that pressure he is going to tell the coach what he wants to hear. If they had any perspective at all about the first round opportunity for Portis, they would have been planning for his departure last year. People around Portis were saying for years that he was only going to play college ball for two seasons.

Exactly!  Recruiting never stops.  I said in March because March was mentioned earlier (not by me).  Recruiting never stops.  Relationships with recruits are paramount.  Those relationships are built on honesty.

Recruit asks coach A if he has a spot for him.  Coach A responds how?  Son, right now we don't have any openings.  It looks like we will have a spot but we won't know until ____ declares.  Recruit says, thanks Coach.

This drags on into the early spring and the recruit says Coach, I have to decide because I am getting pressured by schools to let them know.  Coach A says, "Son, I want you bad but I still don't have an opening, I think I will but ____ hasn't declared yet and it just isn't open until then.  I would be lying to you if I said differently.  Recruit says, thanks for being honest coach, I have to sign with ____ university.  I simply can't wait anymore.

This could have played out with 50 players that fans never even know about. 

The only option was for Coach A to say, I want you and will let ____ go if you sign and nobody leaves.  The issue with that is the other players are friends with ____.  There are family members, a community, a school, a coach, and other links to the kid, ____ that coach is cutting and there are lots of bridges and possible team chemistry disrupted with that action.

You and others are making a lot of assumptions about what is being done and not being done.  Unless you are in the circle, you know squat and are a biggus blowhardus.  If you're in the circle, let me know and I will eat crow.  Otherwise, you know as much as I do and that is squat.

[Biggus Piggus]

I know exactly what they did. They watched games but made little contact, and they were not in the running on anybody they might have wanted by the time they realized they had need. This is what happened. They believe they never stop recruiting, but they did. I am not guessing. This is what happened.

[ArkansasI]

This drags on into the early spring and the recruit says Coach, I have to decide because I am getting pressured by schools to let them know.  Coach A says, "Son, I want you bad but I still don't have an opening, I think I will but ____ hasn't declared yet and it just isn't open until then.  I would be lying to you if I said differently.  Recruit says, thanks for being honest coach, I have to sign with ____ university.  I simply can't wait anymore.

This could have played out with 50 players that fans never even know about. 

I appreciate where you're coming from here, but this isn't the concern that most are expressing.  I know that you are overestimating my expectations.

From my perspective, Arkansas might communicate with a recruit as follows:

"Recruit says, thanks for being honest coach, I have to sign with <INSERT NAME OF SCHOOL OUTSIDE TOP 50 BASKETBALL PROGRAM> university.  I simply can't wait anymore."

To which Mike and his staff might respond, "I understand <PLAYER>, you have to do what you have to do.  However, we are asking you to stay with us just a couple more weeks.  A player of your caliber should expect <INSERT OTHER UNIVERSITY> to hold a spot for you.  If they won't, we believe that there is a reasonable likelihood that there will be an place for you at the University of Arkansas or another TOP 50 PROGRAM.  There is a great deal of movement that happens this time of year, and you should benefit from it.  The decision is yours, but you have the talent to aim higher."

Isn't this what Kentucky sells, but on a higher level?  Why do we seem satisfied with not protecting the program?

Maybe we did, but it is tough to name a single player that abandoned interest in Arkansas because we had no room.  As I have previously posted, I can't imagine where we'd be if Kapita had gone elsewhere.  That signing seemingly came out of nowhere - and I congratulate the staff on that victory.

[Cinco de Hogo]

You can get a degree in two years, four years, eight years.  How long does it take to get at least enough information to figure a coaches methods out.

Sources?
Hogville, 
Recruiting services, 
Local media, 
ESPN, 

Should be a right fine education!

[hawgfan4life]

I know exactly what they did. They watched games but made little contact, and they were not in the running on anybody they might have wanted by the time they realized they had need. This is what happened. They believe they never stop recruiting, but they did. I am not guessing. This is what happened.

And you know all of this how?  You are in coaches meetings?  You have access to all letters, texts, etc.?  You have all the coaches on GPS so that you can tell when they are visiting, on their phones, etc.?

You might be a mod on here have a million posts but that doesn't mean you know a fraction of everything that is going on with the coaches.  You are assuming unless you have tangible proof otherwise.

You still never answer the question.  Please post in your words what the coaches were supposed to say to recruits prior to any of the three players leaving?

If your position is straight up recruit, sign, and cut if necessary, please explain how coahes justify this to future recruits, to the player they cut, to the players family and former coaches that you cut.

You post a lot of critique and supposedly expertise about this situation but fail to back up your posts.  I have said I don't know squat and my opinion is meaningless.  I am not in the meetings, I don't know what they did or are doing.  I however, like to think assume the best.  If AR goes into next spring without a solid recruiting class, you will be vindicated and I will sing your praises.  Until that class is completed, you are a blowhard unless you explain how you "KNOW" what they did.

[hawgfan4life]

I appreciate where you're coming from here, but this isn't the concern that most are expressing.  I know that you are overestimating my expectations.

From my perspective, Arkansas might communicate with a recruit as follows:

"Recruit says, thanks for being honest coach, I have to sign with <INSERT NAME OF SCHOOL OUTSIDE TOP 50 BASKETBALL PROGRAM> university.  I simply can't wait anymore."

To which Mike and his staff might respond, "I understand <PLAYER>, you have to do what you have to do.  However, we are asking you to stay with us just a couple more weeks.  A player of your caliber should expect <INSERT OTHER UNIVERSITY> to hold a spot for you.  If they won't, we believe that there is a reasonable likelihood that there will be an place for you at the University of Arkansas or another TOP 50 PROGRAM.  There is a great deal of movement that happens this time of year, and you should benefit from it.  The decision is yours, but you have the talent to aim higher."

Isn't this what Kentucky sells, but on a higher level?  Why do we seem satisfied with not protecting the program?

Maybe we did, but it is tough to name a single player that abandoned interest in Arkansas because we had no room.  As I have previously posted, I can't imagine where we'd be if Kapita had gone elsewhere.  That signing seemingly came out of nowhere - and I congratulate the staff on that victory.

I get the point that is being made.  Coaches were lazy, coaches are poor recruiters, coaches failed to understand they would have multiple openings when every dufus fan knew, etc.

Again, you are asking AR coaches to convince a solid recruit to wait on them to have an opening like "Kentucky" does.  AR has not been relevant in basketball since the recruits were in diapers.  AR has not been an NCAA Tournament program or even NIT consistently.  AR was not a place recruits in recent years were talking about to the ones signing this class or in other words, there was no "BUZZ" among recruits that generates sincere interest from players not regional trying to stay close for college.

AR definitly started catching recruits eyes this season but it was too late for those in this spring class in most cases.  While they might have been intrigued, they would most likely be willing to wait on schools that have been more relevant and had the "BUZZ" among recruits. 

Maybe you are right and I am wrong.  It is all speculation.  However, I find any fans thinking AR could expect recruits to have waited on a possible scholarship a little bit full of themselves and mentally perceiving AR more from our heyday than our recent past that recruits perceive from.  It is also based on a premise that recruits are WANTING to come to AR over most other schools.  AR was that way once and is building toward that again, but it has not been during these recruits lifetime.

Think of it like this:  How much success do you believe UCA, UAPB, UALR, and AR State would have with the top few players in AR asking them to wait for a possible scholarship.  They play D1, they are schools in Arkansas, and their coaches could recruit the same as AR coaches.  While at the same time, these same recruits might be being told by Tulsa, Memphis, LA State, etc. to commit now or we go with another player.  Do you think they would wait on a possible spot at ASU over a guaranteed spot only if you commit now to Tulsa or Memphis?

Instead of giving the coaches the benefit of the doubt, using some common sense and reason, many fans assume the worst about our coaching staff.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Instead of giving the coaches the benefit of the doubt, using some common sense and reason, many fans assume the worst about our coaching staff.

^^^ In a nutshell

[ArkansasI]

I get the point that is being made.  Coaches were lazy, coaches are poor recruiters, coaches failed to understand they would have multiple openings when every dufus fan knew, etc.

Again, you are asking AR coaches to convince a solid recruit to wait on them to have an opening like "Kentucky" does.  AR has not been relevant in basketball since the recruits were in diapers.  AR has not been an NCAA Tournament program or even NIT consistently.  AR was not a place recruits in recent years were talking about to the ones signing this class or in other words, there was no "BUZZ" among recruits that generates sincere interest from players not regional trying to stay close for college.

AR definitly started catching recruits eyes this season but it was too late for those in this spring class in most cases.  While they might have been intrigued, they would most likely be willing to wait on schools that have been more relevant and had the "BUZZ" among recruits. 

Maybe you are right and I am wrong.  It is all speculation.  However, I find any fans thinking AR could expect recruits to have waited on a possible scholarship a little bit full of themselves and mentally perceiving AR more from our heyday than our recent past that recruits perceive from.  It is also based on a premise that recruits are WANTING to come to AR over most other schools.  AR was that way once and is building toward that again, but it has not been during these recruits lifetime.

Think of it like this:  How much success do you believe UCA, UAPB, UALR, and AR State would have with the top few players in AR asking them to wait for a possible scholarship.  They play D1, they are schools in Arkansas, and their coaches could recruit the same as AR coaches.  While at the same time, these same recruits might be being told by Tulsa, Memphis, LA State, etc. to commit now or we go with another player.  Do you think they would wait on a possible spot at ASU over a guaranteed spot only if you commit now to Tulsa or Memphis?

Instead of giving the coaches the benefit of the doubt, using some common sense and reason, many fans assume the worst about our coaching staff.

No sir. I watched the Hogs play for a long time and know that they seldom - if ever - have a team full of 5 star players. Our national championship team was full of hidden gems.

The staff did a great job finding 2 highly rated players to sign. This means the program is clearly on the upswing. Some of us with no inside information observe that there appears to be no interest from complementary players the could make the current roster more competitive. Really?

Directional schools in Louisiana, lower division schools in New York and others find ways/players to compete with the Hogs. There are players available that can play for the Hogs. I'd like to have a sense that the staff is after them.

Maybe they are. But things sure looked awfully scrambled to some of us.

Peace.

[hawgfan4life]

No sir. I watched the Hogs play for a long time and know that they seldom - if ever - have a team full of 5 star players. Our national championship team was full of hidden gems.

The staff did a great job finding 2 highly rated players to sign. This means the program is clearly on the upswing. Some of us with no inside information observe that there appears to be no interest from complementary players the could make the current roster more competitive. Really?

Directional schools in Louisiana, lower division schools in New York and others find ways/players to compete with the Hogs. There are players available that can play for the Hogs. I'd like to have a sense that the staff is after them.

Maybe they are. But things sure looked awfully scrambled to some of us.

Peace.

It looks scrambled if you are presuming to know all of the behind the scenes and are unsatisfied with those actions.  Our coaches tend to be very close to the vest with recruiting leaving too many fans to speculate and panic.  Again, my point was to those saying the coaches failed somehow to be aware of their situation, that they aren't putting forth effort, etc.

I have said plainly.  AR Coaches had two real options and neither good.  One was to recruit, sign, and cut if necessary.  I hate that option more than any other thing they could do because it is a poor practice and would be negative over the long haul.  The other was to recruit for possible options which wasn't a good option because they didn't have enough time for all three spots.

I have no doubt there are dozens of players they could have signed.  What I like is they did not panic and sign a player just to fill a spot.  Instead, they are being selective and will use it next year if necessary.

I personally think they did a great job this year in recruiting to include the spring with how it played out.  Next years class will go a long way in determining whether fans should be worried although many will still find something to complain about no matter what happens.  Example is Monk:  If he signs, it will be because he is from AR and his family.  Anderson will get no credit.  If he goes to KY, it will be Anderson's fault for not keeping him home.

[Biggus Piggus]

Even Dudley has quit defending the Hogs' recent recruiting. He said on the radio that he doesn't see the current roster as a team good enough to make the NCAAT + termed that unacceptable. Dudley isn't exactly a reporter with an axe to grind.

[orgkeith]

Actually all the negative Nellies just wore Dudley down.  Need Kapita to make it past the clearing house, Hannah to make an impact, Beard to step it up, Whitt to be what we hope he is and some seniors to step up their play and the season may be a surprise.

[20gauge]

MA put in some work last week. Watched everyone of MM's games. Little cut from the article written about the Peach Jam tourney

5. Two of the most interesting recruiting battles to watch will be whether Kentucky can pry elite prospects Malik Monk and Miles Bridges away from programs in their home states. Monk, maybe the Class of 2016's top shooting guard, is a Fayetteville, Ark. native whose older brother Marcus starred for the Razorbacks. Arkansas coach Mike Anderson watched every one of Monk's games, as did either Kentucky coach John Calipari or his assistant Kenny Payne. Bridges is a fast-rising small forward from Flint, Michigan, a city that has produced a lot of Michigan State standouts over the years. He narrowed his list of schools to five finalists on Monday — Michigan, Michigan State, Kentucky, North Carolina and Indiana.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

MA put in some work last week. Watched everyone of MM's games. Little cut from the article written about the Peach Jam tourney

5. Two of the most interesting recruiting battles to watch will be whether Kentucky can pry elite prospects Malik Monk and Miles Bridges away from programs in their home states. Monk, maybe the Class of 2016's top shooting guard, is a Fayetteville, Ark. native whose older brother Marcus starred for the Razorbacks. Arkansas coach Mike Anderson watched every one of Monk's games, as did either Kentucky coach John Calipari or his assistant Kenny Payne. Bridges is a fast-rising small forward from Flint, Michigan, a city that has produced a lot of Michigan State standouts over the years. He narrowed his list of schools to five finalists on Monday — Michigan, Michigan State, Kentucky, North Carolina and Indiana.

Why would Calipari go to the NBA?
He gets 5 lottery picks in every recruitung class

[ArkansasI]

I personally think they did a great job this year in recruiting to include the spring with how it played out.  Next years class will go a long way in determining whether fans should be worried although many will still find something to complain about no matter what happens.  Example is Monk:  If he signs, it will be because he is from AR and his family.  Anderson will get no credit.  If he goes to KY, it will be Anderson's fault for not keeping him home.

We simply disagree with each other on several issues. But I promise that Mike can and will be held accountable for Malik. It's clearly Mike's job to keep Malik home.

The program will not grow if Malik does not endorse this coaching staff.

[WarPig88]

Even Dudley has quit defending the Hogs' recent recruiting. He said on the radio that he doesn't see the current roster as a team good enough to make the NCAAT + termed that unacceptable. Dudley isn't exactly a reporter with an axe to grind.

Sorry, but Dudley Dawson's opinion isn't any more valid than anyone else in this forum. He was a team manager for the Hogs in college, not a player or a coach.

[TomBigBeeHog]

We simply disagree with each other on several issues. But I promise that Mike can and will be held accountable for Malik. It's clearly Mike's job to keep Malik home.

The program will not grow if Malik does not endorse this coaching staff.

This programs future is not hanging on on Malik's decision. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Sorry, but Dudley Dawson's opinion isn't any more valid than anyone else in this forum. He was a team manager for the Hogs in college, not a player or a coach.

He is inclined to be optimistic, and he is information-advantaged to some extent. That was the point.

[ArkansasI]

This programs future is not hanging on on Malik's decision. 

I agree that the program will continue with or without Malik. However, Arkansas must have it's best in-state talent if we hope to return to relevance.

What would we reminisce about if Sidney, Ron, Marvin, Corliss, Joe, Ronnie and Bobby had gone elsewhere?  What impact did the decisions of those players to be Razorbacks have on others?

If we can't convince Arkansans to stay home, then who can we convince?

[poloprince]

Even Dudley has quit defending the Hogs' recent recruiting. He said on the radio that he doesn't see the current roster as a team good enough to make the NCAAT + termed that unacceptable. Dudley isn't exactly a reporter with an axe to grind.

DD is very biased FYI