Tomahawk Chopped: Atlanta Braves off-season...'08-'09

[gutshot]

Now that this abomination of a season is finally officially over, it's time to move forward with an attempt to piece together a contender for 2009.  Personally I don't see it happening, but let's take a look at the state of affairs.  Frank Wren has stated that he will attempt to land 2 proven starting pitchers and a big left field bat.  Here's a breakdown of what we have to look forward to:

1.  Starting Pitching:  Tim Hudson is essentially out for the season.  Mike Hampton wants to stay and the Braves want to keep him.  Smoltz and Glavine may or may not be back.  I have a feeling Smoltz will make a mid-season comeback, but I wouldn't pencil in any of these guys in my projected starting rotation.   If you're Frank Wren, you HAVE to consider any production from these guys a bonus, and not an expectation.  That leaves Jair Jurrjens, Jorge Campillo, Jo-Jo Reyes, and Charlie Morton.  Scary

2.  The outfield is a disaster.  Francoeur has a lot to prove at this point.  A bounce back season from him would make any potential left-field acquisition a little less crucial.  Center-field could go a number of different directions.  Josh Anderson looks like the best bet at this point because prospect Jordan Schafer's name is being tossed around in trade rumors already.  Look for Matt Diaz to be a potential non-tender candidate, although I think that he can still put up another .300 average or two when healthy, if not only in a platoon role. 

3.  The infield should be okay for the most part.  Chipper will not play more than 120 games, but that has come to be expected.  Escobar and Kelly Johnson are being mentioned in trade rumors for a front-line starter.  I would be suprised if both of them are in the opening day line up for Atlanta.  Casey Kotchman and Brian McCann should hold down their positions without concern for the most part.

4.  The bullpen has some decent arms remaining, if Bobby doesn't burn them down in the first 2 months.  Mike Gonzalez showed more in the closer's role than expected after returning from elbow surgery.  Rafael Soriano and Peter Moylan also had surgery, so their returns should be a bonus.  Will Ohman might not re-sign, but he, Acosta, Bennett, and Boyer were solid before the big bullpen burnout took effect. 


4.  Trade/Free Agent whispers:  Jake Peavy is the biggest name being mentioned in the starting pitching market so far.  He has stated 5 teams that he would approve a trade to and Atlanta is one of them.  Frank Wren claims he won't part with prospects Jason Heyward (of), Tommy Hanson (sp), Julio Teheran (sp), Jordan Schafer (of), Freddie Freemen (1b), or Gorkys Hernandez (of).  I think he will have to give up Hanson and Schafer or Hernandez plus Escobar or K. Johnson to bring Peavy to Atlanta.  An ace in his prime with 4 years left on a respectable contract won't come cheap, but we'll see what kind of magic Wren has up his sleeve. 

What do y'all think.  Give your suggestions and wish lists.

[razorback44]

I agree with most of these observations.  I think the most frustrating thing to me is that we let Renteria go last year because we were going to run with Yunel at SS and now we are talking about moving Yunel.  I have no problem parting ways with Kelly but I would like to have some stability at SS. 

[gutshot]

I agree with most of these observations.  I think the most frustrating thing to me is that we let Renteria go last year because we were going to run with Yunel at SS and now we are talking about moving Yunel.  I have no problem parting ways with Kelly but I would like to have some stability at SS. 

Yeah, I've read several rumors that had the Braves including Yunel in a deal that would bring Peavy and Khalil Greene to Atlanta.  I'm not a big Khalil Greene fan at all, and besides the fact that he snubbed me for an autograph in the Houston Galleria Mall last month, I really like what Escobar brings to the table.  Possibly the best shortstop arm in the game and a nice easy line-drive swing.  If he'll keep his attitude in check, he'll make a pretty solid player for years to come. 

If all else fails, I wonder if the Braves would explore the possibility of centering the deal around Escobar and lighten the load of propects for just Peavy.  Then make a run at Renteria, since he just had his option declined, and he appears to perform better in the National League.  I think he really enjoyed his time in Atlanta, so it's not all that far-fetched.  That would give the Braves one more year to see if Brent Lillibridge will ever turn the corner and develop into a major league shortstop. 

[LVW]

heard Andruw wants back in.

[gutshot]

heard Andruw wants back in.

Yeah I heard that, too.  Don't quite know what to think about it either.  I have a hard time believing he's done, but, damn...how bad can a "slump" get?

[PlayCallinBrotha]

The past few seasons have been tough to deal with, a lot of which is a result of the offseasons imo. At some point their gonna have to stop shipping guys in and out every year. Chipper doesn't have many seasons left, someone needs to be in place to take over that leadership role. I had hoped that'd be Francouer, but he really needs to improve by next season. Starting pitching is an issue, as well as offense production from the outfield. At the end of this offseason I just hope they land a few 'big time' players, if nothing else it might rejunivate the fan base. This team really lacks an identity at this point.

[razorback44]

Yeah I heard that, too.  Don't quite know what to think about it either.  I have a hard time believing he's done, but, damn...how bad can a "slump" get?

Please no.  He was great while he was here but I think we are past this being a slump anymore.  I think this is a more long term issue. 

[Milton]

I think Smoltz will come back before next year, although I have heard rumors that the Yanks are interest in him. I would really hope that they go after CC Sabathia. Hampton Can't be counted on for very many games. I mean the guy has pitched how many games in three years? not very many.

[razorback44]

On a side note to all of the Jake Peavy talk, I saw this article this morning on the AJC website.



http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/04/braves_offer_japanese_pitcher.html

[BigSexyHog]

No matter what they do they have along ways to go.  They need alot of help in all areas.

[LVW]

nm

[LVW]

No matter what they do they have along ways to go.  They need alot of help in all areas.

The Braves core talent isn't quite as strong or nearly as deep as it used to be which doesn't allow them to put marginal players on the roster that can be used in situations they are most likely to succeed instead it exposes their weaknesses.  This also makes an injury to one of the core players more damaging.   

[razorback44]

Well the deal for Peavy is now dead.  It's good to see that Frank is not going to give away the farm just to sign a superstar.  Rumor here in Atlanta is that we are now turning our attention to one A.J. Burnett.

[LVW]

Well the deal for Peavy is now dead.  It's good to see that Frank is not going to give away the farm just to sign a superstar.  Rumor here in Atlanta is that we are now turning our attention to one A.J. Burnett.

Don't be surprised if Dempster becomes a Brave.

[SPAL]

Word im gettin is that we are in pursuit of D. Lowe.

[gutshot]

Well the deal for Peavy is now dead.  It's good to see that Frank is not going to give away the farm just to sign a superstar.  Rumor here in Atlanta is that we are now turning our attention to one A.J. Burnett.

He stood his ground.  I was glad to see that.  The assumed offer was Yunel Escobar, plus Charlie Morton or Jo Jo Reyes, and outfield prospect Gorkys Hernandez.  Sounds like the hang-up might have been the inclusion of Single A lefty prospect Jeff Locke.  If Wren could have made this deal, he would definitely deserve a raise.  If he could bring in a 27 year old ace in his prime with guaranteed 3 years left on his contract (and a 4th option year) without having to include top pitching prospect Tommy Hanson or top position prospect Jason Heyward, he deserves more than a gold star by his name.  I'll be surprised if the Braves land one of Lowe, Burnett, or Dempster considering who they're competing with.  They'll make offers, but they won't be able to compete with the Yanks' ridiculous numbers.  I think they'll land one starter in a trade, even if it's not Peavy, and then pick up someone like Oliver Perez to fill the other spot.

[gutshot]

Speaking of Tommy Hanson, here's a write-up about his recent success for any of you Braves fans that need a boost of confidence in the future of the team.  He's going to be a stud, I think:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/13/atlanta_braves_tommy_hanson.html


And another good article on catching prospect Tyler Flowers, who's also burning up the Arizona Fall League.  In the next game after this write-up, Flowers hit 3 more homeruns bringing his AFL total to 10.  If Brian McCann keeps cranking out Silver Sluggers, though, it's going to be hard to find this guy a place to play.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/11/braves_tyler_flowers.html

[razorback44]

Speaking of Tommy Hanson, here's a write-up about his recent success for any of you Braves fans that need a boost of confidence in the future of the team.  He's going to be a stud, I think:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/13/atlanta_braves_tommy_hanson.html


And another good article on catching prospect Tyler Flowers, who's also burning up the Arizona Fall League.  In the next game after this write-up, Flowers hit 3 more homeruns bringing his AFL total to 10.  If Brian McCann keeps cranking out Silver Sluggers, though, it's going to be hard to find this guy a place to play.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/11/braves_tyler_flowers.html

Yeah I read that article about Tyler last week and he sounds like he is going to be a stud.  Maybe we could move one of them to first base because he definitely doesn't seem like one that we would want to lose.

[gutshot]

Yeah, trouble is McCann is too good with the pitchers to move, and they have another stud 1st baseman named Freddy Freeman who burned up A Ball last season.  He'll be a year or two behind Flowers, but if he maintains the level of performance he put up last year, you don't want to block him.  It's a bittersweet situation to be in. 

[Milton]

Word im gettin is that we are in pursuit of D. Lowe.

I really hope we land him

[gutshot]

Mike Hampton signed on with the Houston Astros......Thank you, Lord.  Glad to know we won't have to endure any more of his pain.  That should put Tommy Hanson one step closer to the 2009 starting rotation. 

[Hogtropolis™]

Mike Hampton signed on with the Houston Astros......Thank you, Lord.  Glad to know we won't have to endure any more of his pain.  That should put Tommy Hanson one step closer to the 2009 starting rotation. 

Now the Cards can beat up on him more often!

[LVW]

Speaking of Tommy Hanson, here's a write-up about his recent success for any of you Braves fans that need a boost of confidence in the future of the team.  He's going to be a stud, I think:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/13/atlanta_braves_tommy_hanson.html


And another good article on catching prospect Tyler Flowers, who's also burning up the Arizona Fall League.  In the next game after this write-up, Flowers hit 3 more homeruns bringing his AFL total to 10.  If Brian McCann keeps cranking out Silver Sluggers, though, it's going to be hard to find this guy a place to play.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/11/11/braves_tyler_flowers.html

this sounds like another Salty situation.

[gutshot]

this sounds like another Salty situation.

I'm afraid you're right.

[Milton]

Mike Hampton signed on with the Houston Astros......Thank you, Lord.  Glad to know we won't have to endure any more of his pain.  That should put Tommy Hanson one step closer to the 2009 starting rotation. 

Just pondering, when he went like 3 years pitching only 2 games, we keep him. He comes back and pitches the last half of the season, we let him go. Why not get rid of him when he got hurt everytime he put his freakin toe on the field?

[gutshot]

Just pondering, when he went like 3 years pitching only 2 games, we keep him. He comes back and pitches the last half of the season, we let him go. Why not get rid of him when he got hurt everytime he put his freakin toe on the field?

Because the Braves were still going to have to pay him.  Nobody is going to give up anything in a trade for him, and if you "cut" him, you still have to pay his salary.  As it happened, insurance covered his salary (or most of it anyway) so that kept the Braves from having to eat that portion of the payroll.  Keeping Hampton was the only option that made any sense whatsoever.

And as far as letting hom go was concerned, they didn't just kick him to the curb.  They made an offer, but he chose to move to a team closer to his kids in Arizona, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 

[razorback44]

Braves trade for Javier Vasquez.....

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/12/02/braves_trade_vazquez.html


According to the article it hasn't been confirmed yet but we might have given up Tyler Flowers.

My reaction to this is WTH???  We give up Flowers for what I believe to be another towards the end of their career pitcher.  I would like to see us go after a pitcher in their mid to late 20's.  Is that asking to much?

[Flying Razorback]

I'm one of the biggest Sox fans around and I'm hoping that Vazquez does well down there.  He's got some amazing stuff, but he just never came through for the Sox when we needed it most.  You think that the Flowers kid is going to pan out?  I don't pay much attention to NL prospects.

[LVW]

I'm one of the biggest Sox fans around and I'm hoping that Vazquez does well down there.  He's got some amazing stuff, but he just never came through for the Sox when we needed it most.  You think that the Flowers kid is going to pan out?  I don't pay much attention to NL prospects.

his defense at catcher is subpar.

[LVW]

Braves trade for Javier Vasquez.....

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/12/02/braves_trade_vazquez.html


According to the article it hasn't been confirmed yet but we might have given up Tyler Flowers.

My reaction to this is WTH???  We give up Flowers for what I believe to be another towards the end of their career pitcher.  I would like to see us go after a pitcher in their mid to late 20's.  Is that asking to much?

he's not THAT old- he's 32 and the way their rotation was hit by injuries they could use an experienced durable middle of the rotation starter.

[gutshot]

he's not THAT old- he's 32 and the way their rotation was hit by injuries they could use an experienced durable middle of the rotation starter.

Yeah, but Flowers' stock is at it's highest right now coming off an incredible offensive performance in the Arizona Fall League.  I don't think this is a favorable deal for Frank Wren.  Vasquez is a solid pitcher and he'll definitely be an improvement to the starting staff, but he's not a top of the rotation starter like Wren said he planned to acquire.  If nothing else, I think it was a little early in the offseason to settle for Vasquez...especially considering you're giving up a big offensive prospect that could have been a major trading chip for a solid deal.

[gutshot]

Wren better land a sure-enough Hoss of a #1 starter now or were headed back to the land of mediocrity.

[LVW]

Wren better land a sure-enough Hoss of a #1 starter now or were headed back to the land of mediocrity.

how bout a 5 year offer to AJ Burnett?

[LVW]

Yeah, but Flowers' stock is at it's highest right now coming off an incredible offensive performance in the Arizona Fall League. 

If I'm a GM I'm not going to go after someone based on their AFL stats.

[gutshot]

If I'm a GM I'm not going to go after someone based on their AFL stats.

Before details of the deal began to emerge, one White Sox scout said he was "praying" Chicago had gotten Flowers in the deal. White Sox general manager Kenny Williams lives in Arizona and lauded the strapping Braves prospect after seeing one of Flowers' power-hitting displays in the fall league.


Kenny Williams did see Flowers play (Williams lives in Arizona) this fall and practically drooled over him.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/12/02/hampton_is_gone.html#comment-211735903

[LVW]

Before details of the deal began to emerge, one White Sox scout said he was "praying" Chicago had gotten Flowers in the deal. White Sox general manager Kenny Williams lives in Arizona and lauded the strapping Braves prospect after seeing one of Flowers' power-hitting displays in the fall league.


Kenny Williams did see Flowers play (Williams lives in Arizona) this fall and practically drooled over him.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/12/02/hampton_is_gone.html#comment-211735903

I still wouldn't judge someone based on 75 ABs.  Walter Johnson one year hit .433 in 97 ABs. There has to be a reason why they didn't hold onto him longer.  How many people were drooling over Andy Marte when he was that age.

[gutshot]

Prospects are never guaranteed, that's for sure.  Marte was supposed to be the second coming and how's he doing now?  I just think they jumped the gun on Flowers, but that's only my ignorant opinion.  Especially considering they still need a true front-line starter and a big left field bat, and Wren has already dubbed Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, and Teheran untouchable.  He's not leaving himself a whole lot of big talent to work with, if the Burnett thing doesn't happen.

In other news, the Braves signed Dave Ross to be McCann's backup.  Don't know much about him, but please tell me he'll be an improvement over Corky Miller.

[gutshot]

From David O'Brien's blog at ajc.com:   

Wren on the outfield bat pursuit: "Pitching's most important, but we do need another run-producing bat. It may come down to something that happens even during spring training or during the season. We're focused on trying to do something obviously before that and putting our team together, but we're not going to do something just for the sake of doing something."


We could kick off the season with an outfield of Matt Diaz, Josh Anderson/Gregor Blanco, and Jeff Francoeur again?............Dude.

[LVW]

In other news, the Braves signed Dave Ross to be McCann's backup.  Don't know much about him, but please tell me he'll be an improvement over Corky Miller.

Strengths: he's got power and works well with pitchers and will take a walk
Weaknesses: he hits for a low average and strikeouts a lot and don't count on any clutch hits

[razorback44]

From David O'Brien's blog at ajc.com:   

Wren on the outfield bat pursuit: "Pitching's most important, but we do need another run-producing bat. It may come down to something that happens even during spring training or during the season. We're focused on trying to do something obviously before that and putting our team together, but we're not going to do something just for the sake of doing something."


We could kick off the season with an outfield of Matt Diaz, Josh Anderson/Gregor Blanco, and Jeff Francoeur again?............Dude.

This is exactly why I haven't decided if I am going to renew my season tickets this year.  My seats are in right field, 7 rows up behind Jeff, and it was absolutely miserable sitting out their and watching the OF's play this season night after night.  I can't count the times one of our outfielders could not make a play on the ball and watched it go to the wall.

I'm sure I will break down but for now I am holding out.

[BigSexyHog]

How did it get this bad for the Braves....  Seems like the 80's all over again.


The ghost of C.Washington, Rafeal Rameriz, Glenn "Mother"Hubbard and Ken Oberkfell are roaming the field...  Terry Harper, Bruce Benedict, Rick Mahler and coming out of the dugout.

[yraciv]

Apparently Flowers is a huge defensive liability and he was blocked by McCann.  I'm not sure if he could have changed positions, but with Freemen as our top 1b prospect someone would be an odd man out.  I think Vazquez should improve in the NL and give us a bunch of solid innings.  We really need Burnett, or any top starter, though to solidify the rotation!

[gutshot]

If A.J. Burnett lands elsewhere, the Braves #1 starter for 2009 might be.....

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/12/06/braves_john_smoltz.html

The article is a few days old, but I thought it was still worth mentioning. Hey, I wouldn't put it past the man to make a full recovery.  Even with the damaged shoulder, he was still awfully impressive last year before shutting it down.  I wouldn't bank on him, but I wouldn't count him out either.

[gutshot]

And out of no-where, Frank Wren jumps into the fray to sign Rafael Furcal.  Now this opens up a slough of options:

1. Furcal plays second. Kelly Johnson is traded.

2. Furcal plays second. Kelly Johnson moves back to left field. (unlikely)

3. Furcal plays shortstop. Escobar is traded.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8947764/Source:-Furcal-to-sign-with-Braves?MSNHPHMA

[razorback44]

And out of no-where, Frank Wren jumps into the fray to sign Rafael Furcal.  Now this opens up a slough of options:

1. Furcal plays second. Kelly Johnson is traded.

2. Furcal plays second. Kelly Johnson moves back to left field. (unlikely)

3. Furcal plays shortstop. Escobar is traded.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8947764/Source:-Furcal-to-sign-with-Braves?MSNHPHMA

I will take option #1.  Jones, Kotchman, Escobar and Furcal in the same infield would definitely get me excited about next season. 

[gutshot]

I said option #2 was unlikely but I may be dead wrong.  Mark Bowman at MLB.com is reporting that it's actually very probable:



"Where Furcal would be positioned defensively remains to be seen. But the Braves have no intention to trade either Johnson or Escobar. Instead, they are planning to move Johnson back to left field, a position he played before moving to second base before the start of the 2007 season.

The opportunity to have both Furcal and Johnson in their lineup proved more appealing to the Braves than any of the options they were evaluating in their search to find a power-hitting outfielder.

With Johnson, they feel they have a player capable of hitting 15-20 homers. Matt Diaz could also see some time in left field.

It hasn't been revealed where Furcal will be positioned. But there's reason to believe he'll play second base and Escobar will remain at shortstop. "


http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081216&content_id=3718632&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

[gutshot]

Never mind all the Furcal crap.  He didn't sign anything, and it looks like the Dodgers are back in it fairly heavily.  Frank Wren appears to be 0 for 3 in closing the deal on players rumored to be "favored" to land in Atlanta this winter.

[BigSexyHog]

landing furcal would have been nice but they are striking out with everyone.  Not sure where they go from here.

[SPAL]

I cant remember a worse offseason.

Look for the expos to pass us, we may be looking up from the very bottom.

[gutshot]

We tried to deal with Towers and ended up Peav-ed.  Then we put all our eggs in A.J.'s basket and got Burn-ed.  Now Colletti and Kinzer have double-Furc-ed us.  Not a good time to be a Braves fan.