Do you know what kind of basketball Stan Heath wants his team to play?

[Biggus Piggus]

What is the identity of Stan Heath Razorback basketball?  Can you tell?

In adversity, what core ideals does this team fall back on?  Do you know?  Do the players know?

That is the problem.  Heath does not have any core ideals about basketball.  Every season he starts the season with one idea, changes direction in midseason, and finishes somewhere else.  His players do not know what is going on, and recruits surely cannot tell.  Maybe a few years ago Heath had a story to sell about his plan.  Now what is the plan?

We were supposed to go back to sound rebounding fundamentals after Nolan's unorthodoxy.  Kentucky outrebounded us playing much of the game with a small lineup.  Kentucky, a middle-of-the-road rebounding team, beat us on the boards at our place, including 11 offensive rebounds.

We were supposed to play better inside defense.  Kentucky, a less than ordinary offensive team, shot 20-38 (53%) from 2-pt range against the Hogs at Bud Walton Arena.  They got 22 free throw attempts, 2x what the home team managed.

We were supposed to be able to run a good halfcourt offense.  After the Hogs put up a 14-point lead, they lost nine turnovers in the final three-eighths of the basketball game. 

We were supposed to play "smart" defense.  During their comeback the Cats scored 10 points after offensive boards, 18 points in transition, 7-10 3-pt shooting.  Seventy fricking percent 3-point shooting!  Kentucky even today stands ninth in the SEC in 3-pt shooting percentage.

Down the stretch of a contested game, a team falls back on the core tenets of its system of playing basketball.  The only decently successful basketball team Stan Heath has coached at Arkansas fell back on Ronnie Brewer to win games in crunch time.  Brewer was a pretty good answer.  Without Brewer, Heath is back to having installed nothing at the core of his basketball team.

It is surprising to find the Razorbacks, here in February, 2-5 over their past seven games.  The remaining eight SEC games include four road trips the Hogs are not used to winning (LSU, Mississippi State, Auburn, Vanderbilt).  It is likely Arkansas finishes below .500 in the SEC.  In that case, the Razorbacks would need a strong run in the SECT to make it to March Madness.

But hey, who are we fooling.  Arkansas isn't about to play for anything significant in March, even if they make the tournament.  This team is a malformed thing put together by a young coach who, when hired, was one year separated from rank amateur.  Heath entered an extremely difficult rebuilding job and brought in a coaching staff equally unfamiliar with the conference and the recruiting territory.  Heath seemed lost in the recruiting maze never to re-emerge.  He never seemed to recruit players whose skills would match the ideals Heath had proclaimed when he took the job.  Heath kept winding up with a roster overloaded with swing players, underpopulated with true guards, tough defenders and talented rebounders.  And he required annual staff changes in a never-ending attempt to address his own shortcomings.

Heath, the man who was supposed to lead Razorback basketball back toward traditional fundamentals, failed to recruit players who knew them.  Arkansas loses basketball games now because its athletes do not develop well-rounded skills AND the coach doesn't compensate by playing a system that exploits what they can do well.  Nolan could have taken a roster like this one and at least made them play mad defense.  Heath is not capable of beating his players into submission.  He sits there and watches, helplessly, as his team folds over and over to whatever team is capable of disrupting his fragile plan.

Heath watched his team give up an 8-0 run without getting off a shot, then called a 30-second timeout to sub Steven Hill for Darian Townes.  He subbed Townes and Gary Ervin for Patrick Beverley and Vincent Hunter, and soon after put Beverley back in for Stefan Welsh.  Meanwhile, Tubby went small while the Hogs had Townes and Hill in together.  Kentucky outscored the Hogs 13-5 with the shorter lineup AND dominated the boards at the same time.  Heath called another 30-second timeout and subbed Hunter for Townes.  Master plan.

The real shame down the stretch is that Heath could not find a way to stop the Cats, or to run the offense.  Kentucky got some rebounds, a couple of steals, some fastbreak baskets and a couple of open outside shots.  Then the lead was big enough to allow UK to sit back and wait to be fouled.  They made 12 straight free throws to close out the game.

Stan Heath really had it made at Arkansas and he blew it.  Really doesn't matter whether he gets the axe, he is toast.  The roster includes seven juniors and an open scholarship.  That's eight players to replace between now and next spring, and most of the work better be done by November.  Heath will be a fifth-year coach who just went to the NIT.  His program will have all the momentum of Alaskan molasses.  If he is allowed to recruit that class, Razorback basketball will be doomed to oblivion.

[razorpimp]

The only hope of the basketball program is in this day and age one good coach can pull a program out of the crapper fairly easily.  It is just finding that good coach, see Texas A&M for example.

[spudhog]

no identity. that's been our problem for the last 5 years. we can't run without depth. we can't pound it down low since townes doesnt' show up every game.  when you don't have an objective, you really play inconsistent.

[jameshogfan]

I think they play whatever style of play their opponent dictates. Instead of controlling the game, Heath's squad reacts to what the other team is doing too much. That falls right into the hands of good coach's like Tubby Smith. If you remember, the Alabma game at BWA, we dictated tempo and style of play and took them to the woodshed. We need to be the leader, not the follower during a game.

[oldbooniehog]

The identity of the basketball team depends wholey and utterly on which question JFB asks on the next Questionnaire he administers to Heath.

Also, the identity can vary from game to game, again depending on what JFB thinks will be the best short-term solution that will shore up JFB's power that week.

oldbooniehog

[cosmodrum]

Stan blows leads so fast it just messes you up!

[akp4105]

We were simply outcoached in the latter half of the second half. Tubby took out the big man and played a small line up..hill couldnt run with them and heath stayed with hill because he's been playing so well..WE GOT OUTCOACHED

[spudhog]

i am not sure we are in bad physical shape. you just can't play 40 minutes like hill and beverly need to. you gotta have better depth. welsh getting some pt should help out the guard rotation.  inside, washington has to emerge as a 4th or 5th option down low.

[HawgG]

Push the ball, up tempo, good halfcourt defense...That is what he wants to play and we've seen glimpses.  Problem his team has in executing this is PG play, lack of conditioning, lack of quality depth in the backcourt and inconsistent defensive rebounding.

That's very true.I will also add that there is a lack of quality, not depth, at the 4 and 5 positions as well.
  While Charles Thomas isn't great, he was very much missed in that game with Kentucky.It really hurt Steven Hill who had to log to many minutes because Townes had to play at the PF spot seeing as how Hunter was awful.That would not had happen with Charles healthy, allowing Townes to play behind Hill.Also Charles is the only big man that can attack a zone from the outside as well as the inside.

[Razorod]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

[jamie72921]

Push the ball, up tempo, good halfcourt defense...That is what he wants to play and we've seen glimpses.  Problem his team has in executing this is PG play, lack of conditioning, lack of quality depth in the backcourt and inconsistent defensive rebounding.

I disagree.

I just got through watching Ronnie Brewer walk up and down the court for the last 3 seasons after we would get a rebound. Yes there would be a fast break on a turnover but no real pushing of the ball or tempo.

If Heath were committed to that style of play, Cyrus Mcgowan would be a point guard/shooting guard instead of another inside player we don't need.

Charles Thomas hit the nail on the head after the Missouri loss this season. He said not to worry, this team would get better as the year went on because they would have more film on their opponents and be able to prepare game plans for them because of it. Just like we did last season.

How can you have an identity if this week you play one style, and next week you play another because you are "game planning" for each team you play?

John Wooden, the greatest basketball coach of all time, when asked how his team was going to prepare for an opponent before a final four game responded this way, The same way we always do. We only work on what our team does. Let the other team prepare for us, but we arent' going to change.

A stark contrast to Heath's approach of preparing individual game plans for each opponent.

[311Hog]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

I completely disagree with that statement. The situation Heath came into here couldnt have been WORSE.  Following a disgruntled Legend of a basketball coach who left ABSOLUTLY NO ONE on the team, i mean why else do we have more then 70% of the team in one classification? because he had to recruit a brand new team from the ground up every position.

I dont want to defend Heath because i feel the program is lack luster and struggling to find an identity to, but i dont completely blame him. He was/is a young coach and i think people expected way way to much of him.  He is getting kids with a particular talent level and since the system is so screwed up thanks to Nolan, he had to bring some kids on board that arent good enough plain and simple.  I mean if you had to come into a program and basically you have no returning starters no recruits nothing and start from scratch how long would you realisticaly believe it would take?

Personally i believe the 2008 class will be the one, if it fails it fails and this project is over. But it would be the first one that would have the chance to get players rather then simply settle on kids because you lost so many and are scrambling to fill all the holes.

[HawgG]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Out of the 12 guys on scholarships I think it is safe to say that there are 5 guys that have shown that can play well on most nights.Beverley and Hill are great, but the drop off comes after those two.
   Inconsistent performances are a result of inconsistent recruiting.This program won't get better until the recruiting gets better.

[jamie72921]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

I completely disagree with that statement. The situation Heath came into here couldnt have been WORSE.  Following a disgruntled Legend of a basketball coach who left ABSOLUTLY NO ONE on the team, i mean why else do we have more then 70% of the team in one classification? because he had to recruit a brand new team from the ground up every position.

I dont want to defend Heath because i feel the program is lack luster and struggling to find an identity to, but i dont completely blame him. He was/is a young coach and i think people expected way way to much of him.  He is getting kids with a particular talent level and since the system is so screwed up thanks to Nolan, he had to bring some kids on board that arent good enough plain and simple.  I mean if you had to come into a program and basically you have no returning starters no recruits nothing and start from scratch how long would you realisticaly believe it would take?

Personally i believe the 2008 class will be the one, if it fails it fails and this project is over. But it would be the first one that would have the chance to get players rather then simply settle on kids because you lost so many and are scrambling to fill all the holes.

You do realize that Nolan only had 3 Sutton players left in his second season here. 3!!!!!!!!!!!

He was also in the final four in his 5th season.

This old and tired argument about what Heath was left with doesn't hold water with the folks who remember what it was like when Nolan rebuilt the program after Eddie left.

[311Hog]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

I completely disagree with that statement. The situation Heath came into here couldnt have been WORSE.  Following a disgruntled Legend of a basketball coach who left ABSOLUTLY NO ONE on the team, i mean why else do we have more then 70% of the team in one classification? because he had to recruit a brand new team from the ground up every position.

I dont want to defend Heath because i feel the program is lack luster and struggling to find an identity to, but i dont completely blame him. He was/is a young coach and i think people expected way way to much of him.  He is getting kids with a particular talent level and since the system is so screwed up thanks to Nolan, he had to bring some kids on board that arent good enough plain and simple.  I mean if you had to come into a program and basically you have no returning starters no recruits nothing and start from scratch how long would you realisticaly believe it would take?

Personally i believe the 2008 class will be the one, if it fails it fails and this project is over. But it would be the first one that would have the chance to get players rather then simply settle on kids because you lost so many and are scrambling to fill all the holes.

You do realize that Nolan only had 3 Sutton players left in his second season here. 3!!!!!!!!!!!

He was also in the final four in his 5th season.

This old and tired argument about what Heath was left with doesn't hold water with the folks who remember what it was like when Nolan rebuilt the program after Eddie left.

Here let me point out few mistakes.

1. You assume that all other circumstances are the same when talking about Nolan rebuilding some 15 years ago, compared to Health rebuilding in today's modern era. Sorry but the times arent even remotely similar.

2. I dont think Sutton left under a cloud of racism and anger that lingered over the program some 5 years later.

3. Im pretty sure Nolan had already achieved a high level of success before he came to the hill and he brought a particularly unique style of play with him. As proven with Missouri you can take maybe not the greatest basketball players and get them in amazing shape and play a style of ball that will get you a fair amount of wins.

I dont know if Heath will ever get it done, but i am not ready to say he should be canned yet. He has alot of kids with "issues" in terms of effort and execution sure thats prolly his fault to.

[RAZORBART]

Pretty sure I know. It resembles motionless except Sonny weems does do a lot of moving around, pass it around a couple of times and then with about 3 seconds left on the shot clock throw up a prayer and then don't rebound. Forgot the technical term for this strategy but maybe some of you basketball folks can remind me. AGAFC offense " Ain't got a F***ing clue "?

[Jim Harris]

The only hope of the basketball program is in this day and age one good coach can pull a program out of the crapper fairly easily.  It is just finding that good coach, see Texas A&M for example.

You have John White leading the hiring of coaches (men and women) here these days. Still feel good about UA finding that good coach?

[gduchar]

Pretty sure I know. It resembles motionless except Sonny weems does do a lot of moving around, pass it around a couple of times and then with about 3 seconds left on the shot clock throw up a prayer and then don't rebound. Forgot the technical term for this strategy but maybe some of you basketball folks can remind me. AGAFC offense " Ain't got a F***ing clue "?

i think we might be related...

[311Hog]

Honestly i see the Hogs basketball problems being part Health, and a larger part personel.

IE two players.


1. Gary Ervin. 

I actually like this kid alot, when he is on we look like a national championship contender but the problem is when he is off we look horrible. I dont know what it is that causes him to have such severe lapses in concentration but it really really hurts this team.

2. Darian Townes.

All the potential in the world, when he comes to play and plays hard for 40 minutes he looks like a lottery pick.  But more often then not something happens in a game that causes him to lose focus and then he jsut sleep walks and lets inferior players beat and push him around.

If only these two players could find some level of consistency we would be in great shape.

[Biggus Piggus]

Here let me point out few mistakes.

1. You assume that all other circumstances are the same when talking about Nolan rebuilding some 15 years ago, compared to Health rebuilding in today's modern era. Sorry but the times arent even remotely similar.

2. I dont think Sutton left under a cloud of racism and anger that lingered over the program some 5 years later.

3. Im pretty sure Nolan had already achieved a high level of success before he came to the hill and he brought a particularly unique style of play with him. As proven with Missouri you can take maybe not the greatest basketball players and get them in amazing shape and play a style of ball that will get you a fair amount of wins.

I dont know if Heath will ever get it done, but i am not ready to say he should be canned yet. He has alot of kids with "issues" in terms of effort and execution sure thats prolly his fault to.

Cloud of racism?  Didn't affect Heath in the least.  Not in the frickin least.  His recruiting whiffs were a combination of bad decisions (Lamptey, Al Jefferson) and inability to sign the right guards (a staff problem).

Eddie and Nolan were masters of well-defined systems.  Heath is master of nothing, and he can't recruit himself out of that hole.  That's our problem.

[Biggus Piggus]

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

Let me clarify.  He had it made entering last season.  He was in perfect position to rip off a good season, recruit, rip off another good season, and start rolling.  But he simply could not choose a direction.  That hampered recruiting and kept his teams from progressing the way they should have.  We got a loss to Bucknell, no point guard, and so far three home losses in one season (plus deflowering not one but two winless conference foes on the road).

[Conway Cool Daddy]

Push the ball, up tempo, good halfcourt defense...That is what he wants to play and we've seen glimpses.  Problem his team has in executing this is PG play, lack of conditioning, lack of quality depth in the backcourt and inconsistent defensive rebounding.

I agree
Lack of conditioning and timely substitutions killed us against Bama and Kentucky.
Stan doesn't know how to control the tempo and pace of a game.
Tubby flat out coached him on Saturday.

[bigbrutha]

Biggus, does Heath have something against Townes?  Starting Hunter and bringing in Washington before ever going to Townes is not only horrible coaching, but also a slap in the face.  With Hill's improved offense Townes becomes almost unstopable considering he'll be guarded by power forwards.  Though he's not a great leaper, he keeps the ball up and has incredible footwork which he can use to shoot over smaller forwards.  I just don't get it.  Is it personal?

[bigbrutha]

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

Let me clarify.  He had it made entering last season.  He was in perfect position to rip off a good season, recruit, rip off another good season, and start rolling.  But he simply could not choose a direction.  That hampered recruiting and kept his teams from progressing the way they should have.  We got a loss to Bucknell, no point guard, and so far three home losses in one season (plus deflowering not one but two winless conference foes on the road).

Good point.  I think this past game could prove to be the biggest loss in Heath's time at Arkansas.  I think this was a pivotal game.  Hopefully they'll bounce back, but i'm not confident they will.

[Pignominious]

Excellent points Biggus.  So what do we just sit around and wait for Heath to fail now?  Sounds like I made a wise investment in season tickets for hoops.  (sarcasm)

Heath recruits the kind of wings and guards Nolan would have turned into fine players and then he makes them play some kind of motion offense that none of the players have confidence in or understand.

I have been to patient with Stan but I think it may finally be time to move on.  At least get a coach who believes in a philosophy. 

[ICEman]

Honestly i see the Hogs basketball problems being part Health, and a larger part personel.

IE two players.


1. Gary Ervin. 

I actually like this kid alot, when he is on we look like a national championship contender but the problem is when he is off we look horrible. I dont know what it is that causes him to have such severe lapses in concentration but it really really hurts this team.

2. Darian Townes.

All the potential in the world, when he comes to play and plays hard for 40 minutes he looks like a lottery pick.  But more often then not something happens in a game that causes him to lose focus and then he jsut sleep walks and lets inferior players beat and push him around.

If only these two players could find some level of consistency we would be in great shape.

Whose health?  I know Thomas has a injured shoulder but health wise, his shoulder is not a long term injury.

[gduchar]

the motion offense is great for the right teams but you need a year or two of playing in it, good team chemistry, designated role players, and guards with above average passing skills.

don't think this team is quite there.

see princeton basketball circa 2000 for a good example of the motion offense

[SultanofSwine]

I have to ask if anyone on this planet understands his player rotations either? Almost invariably when we get a group on the floor playing well, he will sub us out of it and never go back to it or only go back after it is too late.

What does he say during timeouts? It certainly isn't "let's get the ball inside to Hill or Townes because they are scoring at will".

I was pleasantly surprised to see that we do indeed have a motion offense as demonstrated while Welsh was in during the first half. I had come to the conclusion that our version of the motion was scramble to get the ball across mid-court so we could turn it over again only to jog back while the opponent shoots another layup.

[bigbrutha]

I have to ask if anyone on this planet understands his player rotations either? Almost invariably when we get a group on the floor playing well, he will sub us out of it and never go back to it or only go back after it is too late.

What does he say during timeouts? It certainly isn't "let's get the ball inside to Hill or Townes because they are scoring at will".

I was pleasantly surprised to see that we do indeed have a motion offense as demonstrated while Welsh was in during the first half. I had come to the conclusion that our version of the motion was scramble to get the ball across mid-court so we could turn it over again only to jog back while the opponent shoots another layup.

Great Post.  I've heard a few very knowledgable basketball fans ask the same thing.  That might be Heath's biggest problem.  Again, great post.

[gduchar]

i would love to see the razorbacks run some of the curl screens and baseline plays that the larry brown pistons used to run for rip hamilton. with beverly's quickness and shooting prowess i think he could get a lot of good looks. also that frees up sonny to work away from the ball and penetrate on reversals. lots of other good possibilities off of those sets as well...

[jamie72921]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

I completely disagree with that statement. The situation Heath came into here couldnt have been WORSE.  Following a disgruntled Legend of a basketball coach who left ABSOLUTLY NO ONE on the team, i mean why else do we have more then 70% of the team in one classification? because he had to recruit a brand new team from the ground up every position.

I dont want to defend Heath because i feel the program is lack luster and struggling to find an identity to, but i dont completely blame him. He was/is a young coach and i think people expected way way to much of him.  He is getting kids with a particular talent level and since the system is so screwed up thanks to Nolan, he had to bring some kids on board that arent good enough plain and simple.  I mean if you had to come into a program and basically you have no returning starters no recruits nothing and start from scratch how long would you realisticaly believe it would take?

Personally i believe the 2008 class will be the one, if it fails it fails and this project is over. But it would be the first one that would have the chance to get players rather then simply settle on kids because you lost so many and are scrambling to fill all the holes.

You do realize that Nolan only had 3 Sutton players left in his second season here. 3!!!!!!!!!!!

He was also in the final four in his 5th season.

This old and tired argument about what Heath was left with doesn't hold water with the folks who remember what it was like when Nolan rebuilt the program after Eddie left.

Here let me point out few mistakes.

1. You assume that all other circumstances are the same when talking about Nolan rebuilding some 15 years ago, compared to Health rebuilding in today's modern era. Sorry but the times arent even remotely similar.

2. I dont think Sutton left under a cloud of racism and anger that lingered over the program some 5 years later.

3. Im pretty sure Nolan had already achieved a high level of success before he came to the hill and he brought a particularly unique style of play with him. As proven with Missouri you can take maybe not the greatest basketball players and get them in amazing shape and play a style of ball that will get you a fair amount of wins.

I dont know if Heath will ever get it done, but i am not ready to say he should be canned yet. He has alot of kids with "issues" in terms of effort and execution sure thats prolly his fault to.

Modern era?

What are you talking about? The 3 pt line and the shot clock were in place by then. There hasn't been a significant change in the game at all since then.

Good grief!

The only real change at all is in how many kids you can sign in a 2 year period. But that isn't the problem here either.

[Jim Harris]

Heath is in his fifth season, why don't we have any depth?

Because Heath started with nothing, something i dont agree on in Biggus's post is that he says Health was in a good situation and blew it.

I completely disagree with that statement. The situation Heath came into here couldnt have been WORSE.  Following a disgruntled Legend of a basketball coach who left ABSOLUTLY NO ONE on the team, i mean why else do we have more then 70% of the team in one classification? because he had to recruit a brand new team from the ground up every position.

I dont want to defend Heath because i feel the program is lack luster and struggling to find an identity to, but i dont completely blame him. He was/is a young coach and i think people expected way way to much of him.  He is getting kids with a particular talent level and since the system is so screwed up thanks to Nolan, he had to bring some kids on board that arent good enough plain and simple.  I mean if you had to come into a program and basically you have no returning starters no recruits nothing and start from scratch how long would you realisticaly believe it would take?

Personally i believe the 2008 class will be the one, if it fails it fails and this project is over. But it would be the first one that would have the chance to get players rather then simply settle on kids because you lost so many and are scrambling to fill all the holes.

You do realize that Nolan only had 3 Sutton players left in his second season here. 3!!!!!!!!!!!

He was also in the final four in his 5th season.

This old and tired argument about what Heath was left with doesn't hold water with the folks who remember what it was like when Nolan rebuilt the program after Eddie left.

Here let me point out few mistakes.

1. You assume that all other circumstances are the same when talking about Nolan rebuilding some 15 years ago, compared to Health rebuilding in today's modern era. Sorry but the times arent even remotely similar.

2. I dont think Sutton left under a cloud of racism and anger that lingered over the program some 5 years later.

3. Im pretty sure Nolan had already achieved a high level of success before he came to the hill and he brought a particularly unique style of play with him. As proven with Missouri you can take maybe not the greatest basketball players and get them in amazing shape and play a style of ball that will get you a fair amount of wins.

I dont know if Heath will ever get it done, but i am not ready to say he should be canned yet. He has alot of kids with "issues" in terms of effort and execution sure thats prolly his fault to.

Modern era?

What are you talking about? The 3 pt line and the shot clock were in place by then. There hasn't been a significant change in the game at all since then.

Good grief!

The only real change at all is in how many kids you can sign in a 2 year period. But that isn't the problem here either.

Nolan coached one season at Arkansas without the 3-point line and shot clock. The rules change was for the 1986-87 season. Thank goodness, or he wouldn't have beaten A-State in the NIT.

[jamie72921]

Recruiting is very different now dealing with the AAU system and certain coaches &  good players only staying a year.  Game changes including extra timeouts and the hand check have also greatly influenced it. 

Hand check is not a new rule or even a point of emphasis these days. Not to mention, Nolan taught his players to move their feet and use their hands to touch the ball not the player.

Never have understood why people think what they do about the hand check. Maybe because it coincided with the time we went through a serious drought of depth at PG which caused us to back off the press? Not sure really, just don't remember Nolan or Mike ever even mentioning it as a factor.

Like I said, the game had made all significant changes and was in the modern era while Nolan was rebuilding the program.

[311Hog]

Are you daft?


If you dont believe college basketball in the last 5 years is ANYTHING like it was during the Nolan era then im going to stop talking right now. 

During Nolan era more kids didnt go straight to the NBA draft then actually went to college (pre this year rule change of course)

Basketball as it is today is a completely different animal in terms of it is managed and the level of play and parity.

High School games werent on ESPN 2, Nolan died because he expected players to want to play for him. He didnt realize or care to realize that the player is everything in basketball if you dont have the best players you are screwed. YEs coaching and scheme have a place but it is no secret why the best teams like North Carolina, UCONN, etc are starting 5's of NBA first rounders. If you arent packing that kinda heat you need to get out of the kitchen.

[jamie72921]

Are you daft?


If you dont believe college basketball in the last 5 years is ANYTHING like it was during the Nolan era then im going to stop talking right now. 

During Nolan era more kids didnt go straight to the NBA draft then actually went to college (pre this year rule change of course)

Basketball as it is today is a completely different animal in terms of it is managed and the level of play and parity.

You are delusional. You just said that the new NBA rule has made the kids stay in school just like they did back then. That is the exact same thing as saying no change. EXACXT!

Not to mention, kids still transferred back then and had the option to leave your program that way as well. Sorry no sale.

Basketball has always had parity. You think that is new? In 1979, the Penn Quakers were in the final 4 with Indiana St, Depaul, and Michigan St. Parity isn't new either.

As far as kids going straight from HS to the NBA goes, that really started with KB and KG, and should actually have helped make rebuilding easier because you weren't going to have to coach against those guys because they certainly weren't coming here. Though Garnett had us on his list. He is Alex Dillard's cousin.

Sorry, very little has changed. Remember Prop 48, it handcuffed rebuilding back then as well and is something that Heath no longer has to conted with.

The game is the same. Your argument is weak.

[311Hog]

LOL YOU CANT BE SERIOUS


Up UNTIL THIS YEAR, kids could go to the NBA and forgo college if they wanted it didnt matter how old they were.  Back in Nolan's era this was also true BUT NO ONE WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO GO, i think maybe 2? players ever did it. But in the last i dunno FIVE years a TON of kids have ignored college and went to the NBA this all but killed the college game, thus the NEW RULE where a kid has to play one and done.

I mean i ask you this Al Jefferson was going to be a hog, imagine it was back in the Nolan era where he would have came to the Hill for at LEAST 2 years. He is averaging what ? 18 pts and 10 boards in the NBA imagine what he woulda done here i can promise you he woulda stomped Townes ass into the dirt in the low block.

That is my point back in the day kids had to play and play well in college ball before they could go cash the big check. But here in the last few years and EVEN NOW WITH THE NEW RULE, they dont 1 year is nothing.

[hog caller]

what would Bob Knight be doing this week if they had lost one like that or Dean sSAmith for that matter?

[Squealers]

Bigus, I say this everytime you post, but I must repeat myself.

Your insight should be MANDATORY reading by the Hill.  There should be an email link here to forward your posts directly to those who need to read it most...

Another thing.  We here on Hogville sometimes take for granted the time, effort and deft insight that posters like Bigus bring us.  Agree or disagree with his perspective, you have to admit that he has a grasp on the program and understands what changes need to be made.

Congrats for a great post, Bigus.

[WilsonHog]

How long does it take to rebuild a basketball program? HEATH IS IN YEAR FIVE. If it's true, and I believe it is, that a basketball program can be rebuilt much faster than a football program, how long does it take? Six years, Seven years? Eight years? We very well could not go to the NCAA Tournament this year, which would mean that in five years Heath has gotten us to ONE NCAA tournament, and we were eliminated immediately.     

Ask yourself this question: if on the day before Stan Heath was hired someone with a crystal ball could have told us that we would play in one NCAA Tournament in five years and lose our opening game, would you have been in favor of hiring him?

There comes a point in time when being a nice guy is completely irrelevant to keeping your job. 

[elksnort]

NO

[jamie72921]

LOL YOU CANT BE SERIOUS


Up UNTIL THIS YEAR, kids could go to the NBA and forgo college if they wanted it didnt matter how old they were.  Back in Nolan's era this was also true BUT NO ONE WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO GO, i think maybe 2? players ever did it. But in the last i dunno FIVE years a TON of kids have ignored college and went to the NBA this all but killed the college game, thus the NEW RULE where a kid has to play one and done.

I mean i ask you this Al Jefferson was going to be a hog, imagine it was back in the Nolan era where he would have came to the Hill for at LEAST 2 years. He is averaging what ? 18 pts and 10 boards in the NBA imagine what he woulda done here i can promise you he woulda stomped Townes ass into the dirt in the low block.

That is my point back in the day kids had to play and play well in college ball before they could go cash the big check. But here in the last few years and EVEN NOW WITH THE NEW RULE, they dont 1 year is nothing.

You lack the ability to reason. The kids in question here, like Darrell Dawkins the first player to go straight from highschool to the NBA and by the way would have gone to Kentucky if he hadn't, usually end up at the NC, Duke's, Kansas', and KU's.

Kentucky being our opponent only benefitted us with this happening. Miss St. lost 3 kids that during that time. Again benefitting Heath's efforts to rebuild by not having to coach against these kids.

Everyone with a brain knows that everyone had backed off Al Jefferson except for Heath because of the fact he wasn't going to college. His signing was meaningless given people had quit recruiting kids like him at the time.

These kids early exodus only brought the big boys closer to the second tier programs. There isn't a shortage of bball players out there. The small colleges have been proving that for decades.

There is a shortage of lottery picks, and with those kids leaving early as they did, only made thing EASIER for Heath.

Quit making excuses.

[Biggus Piggus]

Adversity=Player rotations for Heath

It's not merely player rotations, it's rotations that they do not practice enough.  The team would be better almost instantly if Heath were gone and his assistants were running things.  Maybe still not good enough, but better.  Leadership vacuum.

[WilsonHog]

There was a time when making the NCAA Tournament at Arkansas was a foregone conclusion. The only question was what seed we would get and how deep we would go. From 1977 through 2001 we went to the NCAA Tournament 22 times in 25 years. Four Final Fours. Six more appearances in the Sweet Sixteen.

We haven't made the Sweet Sixteen since 1995-96.

We've made one trip to the NCAA Tournament since 2000-2001. That's one time in six years if we don't go this year.

If someone doesn't jump start this program damn quick, we'll see it slip to the point that just making the NCAA Tournament is good enough.

Coaches talk about game slippage; that's one helluva example of program slippage. We're damn close to becoming irrelevant in college basketball.           

[maximus]

stan heath is a yankee, he wants us to play 40 minutes yankee hell. 

[malzhanista]

Every season he starts the season with one idea, changes direction in midseason, and finishes somewhere else.

Just like Frank!

[hawgnutts]

Stan is  a nice guy but not the answer. bring eddie back for a couple of years so he can get his 800 the TO to his other son.

[hawgnutts]

bump

[Hogpuddin]

I know exactly what kind of basketball that The HOGS are going to play.  I remember very well the day that Stan was introduced at the Press Conference; he said that we were going to play a very interesting "BRAND" of basketball.  Up and down the floor.  Very exciting. 

My questions:

What exactly is a "BRAND" of basketball?
And if this is up and down the floor, is it very interesting?

[HognotinMemphis]

No disrespect BP, but who cares?

[gduchar]

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!