Heath, good coach, poor evaluator of talent

[kdogstew]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

[dish13-hog]

Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

[blue]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

Strike your first statement, reverse it and you have a winner.

[kdogstew]

Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

I actually like Heath as a coach.  I have defended him and will continue to do so as a coach. 

Do you disagree with my evaluations??? which evaluations would take issue with??  Perhaps I am mistaken.

I welcome your thoughts

Stew

[Hawgvillain]

Funny, I totally disagree with you...

I think he can get lots of talent but has had trouble getting the talent to mesh.  I believe 11 of those 14 guys are/were 4* or 5* recruits at one time or another (Ronnie B, Olu F, Sonny W, Steven H, Charles T, Darian T, Patrick B, Al J, Michael W, Gary E, and Cyrus M).  I understand that recruiting rankings aren't the end-all be-all, but those guys were all considered top athletes coming out of HS. 

I like Stan, but I think we could have been doing a better job with our game-plans and execution.

[DoubleJ]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

Strike your first statement, reverse it and you have a winner.

I was gonna say the same thing.  Those players are talented.

[Hogpuddin]

I think that Heath gets excellent talent, but I do not believe that he coaches a good "brand" of basketball.

[naturalbornpigger]

I think you're 180 degrees out of phase.  I think our talent is good. I don't think Heath can coach a lick.  I still can't figure out what our offense is.  We often don't seem to recognize zone vs man defenses.  We have trouble getting the ball inbounds against pressure.  When we have any movement at all against a man-D, it seems to be without purpose.  We don't seem to use time-outs as coaching opportunities.  And besides all this, Stan has a constant look of confusion on the sideline. 

All this aside, rebounding and defense seem to be coming on strong.  Some coaching perhaps, but there is a lot of desire and athleticism involved.

I think well coached teams with inferior talent will give us much trouble.

[Hawgvillain]

I think that Heath gets excellent talent, but I do not believe that he coaches a good "brand" of basketball.

I think Stan is still trying to decide what "brand" of basketball is his and what will be successful.  It seems like he has been trying to build around solid big-men and it just isn't working...so we have switched to a more guard oriented offense.  Obviously, there has been some struggles but some glimpses of success.  One reason why I like Stan is that I believe he is willing to change things to try to get better...

wonder if that might work in football too...

[Oliverhogman]

Hill - Amazing OFFENSIVELY  What games have you been watching?

As for Beverly we better get everything we can in 3 years.  He will make us forget about Ronnie Brewer before he leaves.

As for Weems.  All I will say is WHO is Modica.

For McCurdy he would be a lot better if he would shoot the darn ball.

Ervin needs to stay out of the lane.  To many big men in the game.

[kdogstew]

Funny, I totally disagree with you...

I think he can get lots of talent but has had trouble getting the talent to mesh.  I believe 11 of those 14 guys are/were 4* or 5* recruits at one time or another (Ronnie B, Olu F, Sonny W, Steven H, Charles T, Darian T, Patrick B, Al J, Michael W, Gary E, and Cyrus M).  I understand that recruiting rankings aren't the end-all be-all, but those guys were all considered top athletes coming out of HS. 

I like Stan, but I think we could have been doing a better job with our game-plans and execution.

Yeah, I completely understand your argument about them being 4 and 5 star players but consider this.

Do you think Steven Hill would be significantly better offensively with a different coach. The guy (I be live played in a 3a school).  Pretty easy to shoot over 5'8" guys.

Olu F = come on. That guy laid more bricks than a brick mason.  He tried to leave early for the pros and found out how deficient his skills were.

Townes. I think he was rated so high on potential. He has great post moves but how do you explain his inconsistency.  Is that Stan's fault that one game he shoots 60% and the next he goes 4 for 15 (I didn't look those up, but I could find the number to bolster that claim???)  Also I think Stan has given him chance after chance after chance to lead this team through scoring in the paint and he still misses too many easy shots!!!

As for Charles I can concede he was a good player to recruit.  I don't know the evaluations of him from his recruiting days but he just seems undersized.  I will agree he is a good find. But what about the others!!!!

Stew

[Hawgvillain]

Funny, I totally disagree with you...

I think he can get lots of talent but has had trouble getting the talent to mesh.  I believe 11 of those 14 guys are/were 4* or 5* recruits at one time or another (Ronnie B, Olu F, Sonny W, Steven H, Charles T, Darian T, Patrick B, Al J, Michael W, Gary E, and Cyrus M).  I understand that recruiting rankings aren't the end-all be-all, but those guys were all considered top athletes coming out of HS. 

I like Stan, but I think we could have been doing a better job with our game-plans and execution.

Yeah, I completely understand your argument about them being 4 and 5 star players but consider this.

Do you think Steven Hill would be significantly better offensively with a different coach. The guy (I be live played in a 3a school).  Pretty easy to shoot over 5'8" guys.

Olu F = come on. That guy laid more bricks than a brick mason.  He tried to leave early for the pros and found out how deficient his skills were.

Townes. I think he was rated so high on potential. He has great post moves but how do you explain his inconsistency.  Is that Stan's fault that one game he shoots 60% and the next he goes 4 for 15 (I didn't look those up, but I could find the number to bolster that claim???)  Also I think Stan has given him chance after chance after chance to lead this team through scoring in the paint and he still misses too many easy shots!!!

As for Charles I can concede he was a good player to recruit.  I don't know the evaluations of him from his recruiting days but he just seems undersized.  I will agree he is a good find. But what about the others!!!!

Stew

In general, I equate talent with athletic ability.  I know that is simplistic but if you use the broad definition of talent (a combination of athletic ability, basketball skills, and basketball intelligence) then the most talented team should win every time.  What I am saying is that Stan has recruited players with exceptional athletic ability and we have not translated that into consistent success.  In that situation, I place blame squarely on the head coach.  It's his job to learn the strengths of his players and get them into situations where they could succeed. Sure Olu wasn't a great shooter - he was always described as a "slasher" player in HS.  Sure Townes has been inconsistent - it's Stan's job to get him teach him how to iron out the flaws in his game (his tendency to take bad shots when double teamed) so that he is more consistent.

I do think that it's possible Hill would be better offensively with a different coach.  But, Stan seems to be realizing that Hill can be effective when playing above or near the rim.  In fact, I would say that Hill's development over the past year is probably Stan's biggest coaching achievement (IOW not recruiting) since coming to the U. of A.

[HawgG]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

You are right to say that Heath is a good coach and he has an excellent staff, but he has missed on recruiting and that is a fact.People see some guys on the floor that can run and jump a little bit and think that they are talented.As somebody that follows BB recruiting I know for a fact that there have been both mistakes and misses by Heath and his staff on recruiting.

    Starting with the 2003 class Arkansas has only signed 3 guys off their A list.
Ronnie Brewer
Olu Famutimi
Steven Hill

    I hope that this team can make it back to the NCAAT this year because I want to see how well they recruit with Glenn Cyprien on the staff instead of Ronnie Thompson who was recruiting coordinator and he was the one that convinced Stan that Dontell Jefferson was going to be a SUPERSTAR.

[Hogpuddin]

I think that Heath gets excellent talent, but I do not believe that he coaches a good "brand" of basketball.

I think Stan is still trying to decide what "brand" of basketball is his and what will be successful.  It seems like he has been trying to build around solid big-men and it just isn't working...so we have switched to a more guard oriented offense.  Obviously, there has been some struggles but some glimpses of success.  One reason why I like Stan is that I believe he is willing to change things to try to get better...

wonder if that might work in football too...

You make good points.  I agree that he has not totally chosen a style.  I used to not think that  different conferences had different styles of play, but that Big 10 stuff he tried to bring in just will not win in the SEC.

[TRUHOG718]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

You are right to say that Heath is a good coach and he has an excellent staff, but he has missed on recruiting and that is a fact.People see some guys on the floor that can run and jump a little bit and think that they are talented.As somebody that follows BB recruiting I know for a fact that there have been both mistakes and misses by Heath and his staff on recruiting.

    Starting with the 2003 class Arkansas has only signed 3 guys off their A list.
Ronnie Brewer
Olu Famutimi
Steven Hill

    I hope that this team can make it back to the NCAAT this year because I want to see how well they recruit with Glenn Cyprien on the staff instead of Ronnie Thompson who was recruiting coordinator and he was the one that convinced Stan that Dontell Jefferson was going to be a SUPERSTAR.

What is this A LIST you speak of. Where can I get a copy. No sarcasm intended but I know we had stellar recruiting classes 2003 and 2004.

[hoggystyle78]

I agree with some earlier posters on here, I think Stan is a very good recruiter, but I don't think he can coach his way out of a paper bag. JMO

[yraciv]

You've got it completely backword.

[gduchar]

not even close...thanks for playing

[softballguy8]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

I think it is more appropriate to say that he's a good evaluator of talent, poor coach.  I wish he was an Asst Coach on Mike Anderson's staff.

[TRUHOG718]

TRUHOG 718. Great lover......Poor evaluator of Women. Damn I thought this was match.com. MY BAD 

[Hogpuddin]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

I think it is more appropriate to say that he's a good evaluator of talent, poor coach.  I wish he was an Asst Coach on Mike Anderson's staff.

T.J. Cleveland has that position covered.  T.J. freakin' Cleveland!!!

[HawgG]

What is this A LIST you speak of. Where can I get a copy. No sarcasm intended but I know we had stellar recruiting classes 2003 and 2004.

I am not saying that there has not been good recruiting, but it could have and should have been better.
That 2004 class should have been:
Daniel Gibson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Steven Hill
Taj Grey
Charles Rhodes

Now tell me that group of guys wouldn't have made a bigger impact.
   

[Winner]

Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

I actually like Heath as a coach.  I have defended him and will continue to do so as a coach. 

Do you disagree with my evaluations??? which evaluations would take issue with??  Perhaps I am mistaken.

I welcome your thoughts

Stew

Just curious, you say Washington is a "6'10 softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards" and then with Welsh you say "too young to know" and with McGowan, you mention his youth as if the verdict is still out.  Why are you so quick to dismiss Washington.  He is just a freshman on a team loaded with experienced big men.   

[Hogpuddin]

Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

I actually like Heath as a coach.  I have defended him and will continue to do so as a coach. 

Do you disagree with my evaluations??? which evaluations would take issue with??  Perhaps I am mistaken.

I welcome your thoughts

Stew

Just curious, you say Washington is a "6'10 softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards" and then with Welsh you say "too young to know" and with McGowan, you mention his youth as if the verdict is still out.  Why are you so quick to dismiss Washington.  He is just a freshman on a team loaded with experienced big men.  

I was kind of wondering that myself.

[TRUHOG718]

What is this A LIST you speak of. Where can I get a copy. No sarcasm intended but I know we had stellar recruiting classes 2003 and 2004.

I am not saying that there has not been good recruiting, but it could have and should have been better.
That 2004 class should have been:
Daniel Gibson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Steven Hill
Taj Grey
Charles Rhodes

Now tell me that group of guys wouldn't have made a bigger impact.
   

I see what you meant. we will never get those caliber of recruits in the same year. If this were Puke or North Carolina or Uconn yes but never at the U Of A.  I would love to be a recruiting hotbed like tose guys but Reality bites and we still finish near the top in recruiting.

[HawgG]

I see what you meant. we will never get those caliber of recruits in the same year. If this were Puke or North Carolina or Uconn yes but never at the U Of A.  I would love to be a recruiting hotbed like tose guys but Reality bites and we still finish near the top in recruiting.

Don't have to be DUKE or UNC ,just have to make better decisions in your area and have some good luck go your way.

Gibson decommitted and stayed home to play for Texas
Aldridge was going where ever Gibson was going
Grey would have came here but the coaching staff decided on Charles Thomas
Rhodes was a heavy lean to Arkansas but Miss St, in fear of losing another home state kid to Arkansas, decide to refurnish to Rhodes household to get him.
Thad Young was coming but false allegations coming out of Memphis caused him to go to GT where he is not happy by the way

I can go on and on about Blue-Chippers that Arkansas has lost out on.Some of it is their fault and some of it is just bad luck.

Arkansas will sign 8 players this year, 1 this spring to finish off the 2007 class and 7 this fall representing the 2008 class.They cannot make many mistakes with that kind of turnover on the roster.

[TRUHOG718]

I see what you meant. we will never get those caliber of recruits in the same year. If this were Puke or North Carolina or Uconn yes but never at the U Of A.  I would love to be a recruiting hotbed like tose guys but Reality bites and we still finish near the top in recruiting.

Don't have to be DUKE or UNC ,just have to make better decisions in your area and have some good luck go your way.

Gibson decommitted and stayed home to play for Texas
Aldridge was going where ever Gibson was going
Grey would have came here but the coaching staff decided on Charles Thomas
Rhodes was a heavy lean to Arkansas but Miss St, in fear of losing another home state kid to Arkansas, decide to refurnish to Rhodes household to get him.
Thad Young was coming but false allegations coming out of Memphis caused him to go to GT where he is not happy by the way

I can go on and on about Blue-Chippers that Arkansas has lost out on.Some of it is their fault and some of it is just bad luck.

Arkansas will sign 8 players this year, 1 this spring to finish off the 2007 class and 7 this fall representing the 2008 class.They cannot make many mistakes with that kind of turnover on the roster.

Well Uconn, Puke, and North Carolina must be the luckiest programs in the world because they get those caliber guys every year and we dont. Im not real big on luck myself. But the fact cant be denied none of those guys came here. The reasons why are good to use as an excuse but if they wanted to come here they would have been here. They didnt so until we bring in a class like that (UNC 3 High School seniors ranked in the top 15) as an example the reality is we dont recruit on a level with those programs. Schools lose out on blue chippers every year, and IMO it doesent make them unlucky just on a different level.

[LJHOG]

I think the man don't know much about basketball, but is certainly entitled to his opinion.  As am I.

[HawgG]

Well Uconn, Puke, and North Carolina must be the luckiest programs in the world because they get those caliber guys every year and we dont. Im not real big on luck myself. But the fact cant be denied none of those guys came here. The reasons why are good to use as an excuse but if they wanted to come here they would have been here. They didnt so until we bring in a class like that (UNC 3 High School seniors ranked in the top 15) as an example the reality is we dont recruit on a level with those programs. Schools lose out on blue chippers every year, and IMO it doesent make them unlucky just on a different level.

TRUHOG you I never said that Duke and UNC were lucky in recruiting.The luck was meant to illustrate how some things out of Arkansas' control has went against them, and that hopefully in the next class that will not happen.Arkansas will not year after year recruit on the same level as the two powerhouses that you mentioned,but they can sign a damn GREAT class if the right evaluations are made and the opportunity is there.

I want to see what this staff, that is as good as it has been under Heath, can do if they win the SEC WEST and win a game or two in the NCAAT.Right now they are in on the kind of talent that will be worthy of a top 10 ranking if they can get them.Let's see what will happen if the season plays out like I wrote.

[kdogstew]

Wow.  I think you bashed a coach and more players in one post than I have ever seen...

I actually like Heath as a coach.  I have defended him and will continue to do so as a coach. 

Do you disagree with my evaluations??? which evaluations would take issue with??  Perhaps I am mistaken.

I welcome your thoughts

Stew

Just curious, you say Washington is a "6'10 softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards" and then with Welsh you say "too young to know" and with McGowan, you mention his youth as if the verdict is still out.  Why are you so quick to dismiss Washington.  He is just a freshman on a team loaded with experienced big men.  

I am completely wrong on that guy.  I was thinking about Michael Jones!!! and now that I think about it I'm thinking he was a carry over from Nolan R. 

Sorry.  I would say that the verdict is still out on Michael Washington as well.

Stew

[hogsmaster]

I see what you meant. we will never get those caliber of recruits in the same year. If this were Puke or North Carolina or Uconn yes but never at the U Of A.  I would love to be a recruiting hotbed like tose guys but Reality bites and we still finish near the top in recruiting.

Don't have to be DUKE or UNC ,just have to make better decisions in your area and have some good luck go your way.

Gibson decommitted and stayed home to play for Texas
Aldridge was going where ever Gibson was going
Grey would have came here but the coaching staff decided on Charles Thomas
Rhodes was a heavy lean to Arkansas but Miss St, in fear of losing another home state kid to Arkansas, decide to refurnish to Rhodes household to get him.
Thad Young was coming but false allegations coming out of Memphis caused him to go to GT where he is not happy by the way

I can go on and on about Blue-Chippers that Arkansas has lost out on.Some of it is their fault and some of it is just bad luck.

Arkansas will sign 8 players this year, 1 this spring to finish off the 2007 class and 7 this fall representing the 2008 class.They cannot make many mistakes with that kind of turnover on the roster.

Daniel Gibson never committed to Arkansas.  When you recruit big-time talent like Health does, you win some and you lose some.  These guys got big time options.  You're fooling yourself if you think that we should  land every single one of them.  We did sign Al Jefferson but he opted for the NBA.

[hogsmaster]

Kdog, off that list I would say that there are only 2 busts on there.  While Dontel has no business playing on the D-1 level, Olu may have developed his game had he stayed for all 4 years; however, he didn't come close to living up to his hype.  McCurdy is still only a sophmore, lets wait a couple of years to judge.  But all the others are good players and have contributed. 

That's not a bad success ratio.  Not every player will live up to their potential.  Just ask Nolan about Darnell Robinson or Glendon Alexander.

[towneofbeverlyhills]

I just cant agree with this post...i mean...if you were that good at evaluating talent you most def. wouldnt be on here talking to us...better yet, you'd have stan's job.

[SPAL]

u got it backwards bub

[bullwarrior]

"Do you think Steven Hill would be significantly better offensively with a different coach. The guy (I be live played in a 3a school).  Pretty easy to shoot over 5'8" guys."

Steven Hill played in a class 3 school that had I believe 4 D-1 post/4 men.  He was the weakest in his conference as a senior, so he saw very good post players that were 6-8/9 all the time.

I like Heath as a person, but I don't like him as a coach at all.  I think we show how much talent we have when we play with and beat the top teams in the country/SEC, and I think we see how much of a coach Heath is when we lose to the worst teams in the SEC, and I don't care if it is on the road.  Teams practice like they play, and I am going to bet that the razorbacks since heath has been at Arkansas are the most inconsistent practicing team in the country, and it is all due to Heaths lack of preparation/passion.   

Long post for me, but bottam line is we have the talent-not the heart/passion/leadership--at the top, to win.

[kdogstew]

u got it backwards bub

Seems as though I am on an island on this thread and I have to study so I will retire for the evening.

I never intended the thread to be my defense of Stan as a coach, which is what most have attacked.  Rather my thoughts were that the talent is just not up to par. 

Others can disagree, but I stand by my thread.  The coach may be deficient, I still have hope for him but I am clearly in the minority on that. However, I will stand by my post that  about 7 of our top 10 players would not start for most top 20 teams.

[pignatious]

Heath is a horrible coach and motivator. Pretty decent evaluator of talent. But, he has real trouble developing talent. Players need to progress while they are going through the program. It rarely happens under Heath. So my overall grade for him is D. That's not even close to good enough for one of the top programs historically in the country. Another miserable Broyles failure that he refuses to correct.

[HawgG]

Daniel Gibson never committed to Arkansas.  When you recruit big-time talent like Health does, you win some and you lose some.  These guys got big time options.  You're fooling yourself if you think that we should  land every single one of them.  We did sign Al Jefferson but he opted for the NBA.

First off Gibson did give a verbal to Heath, it didn't last long but the words were spoken.

Secondly, Yes you do win some and lose some.That's a part of recruiting, everybody knows that.

Yes Al Jefferson was signed, but I only count those who shows up to play.Arkansas also signed Julius Lamptey and Ryan McBride but neither contributed to the University.By the way Big AL was not Arkansas' first choice as most would think.They had Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson interested at the sametime, but the coaches believed that Jefferson was more likely to attend college.Howard loved UA assistant Oronde Taliaferro just as BIG AL did.

As for as Rhodes and Grey, both of them should have been signed.A frontline of Steven Hill and Charles Rhodes would be fantastic, but that is just the way it is.

[Hank351]

See I think the complete opposite.  I think Heath is a great evaluator of talent.  He's brought in some amazing talent, however he can't coach them worth a lick.  He sure as heck can't get them to play like a team. 

[TRUHOG718]

Well Uconn, Puke, and North Carolina must be the luckiest programs in the world because they get those caliber guys every year and we dont. Im not real big on luck myself. But the fact cant be denied none of those guys came here. The reasons why are good to use as an excuse but if they wanted to come here they would have been here. They didnt so until we bring in a class like that (UNC 3 High School seniors ranked in the top 15) as an example the reality is we dont recruit on a level with those programs. Schools lose out on blue chippers every year, and IMO it doesent make them unlucky just on a different level.

TRUHOG you I never said that Duke and UNC were lucky in recruiting.The luck was meant to illustrate how some things out of Arkansas' control has went against them, and that hopefully in the next class that will not happen.Arkansas will not year after year recruit on the same level as the two powerhouses that you mentioned,but they can sign a damn GREAT class if the right evaluations are made and the opportunity is there.

I want to see what this staff, that is as good as it has been under Heath, can do if they win the SEC WEST and win a game or two in the NCAAT.Right now they are in on the kind of talent that will be worthy of a top 10 ranking if they can get them.Let's see what will happen if the season plays out like I wrote.

Well as always good debating with ya Hawg G. Until next time bro. WPS

[cardinalhawg]

I agree with those who are saying that Heath is a better recruiter than coach.  He has missed out on some of his recruits, but in all reality, Arkansas hasn't overachieved under Heath.  Usually the sign of a great coach is if the team will play better than expected.  I am not saying Heath is a bad coach, but he hasn't shown yet that he can build a program into a great one yet.

Based on the talent, one would figure the Hogs could break into the top 25 some.

[HawgG]

I agree with those who are saying that Heath is a better recruiter than coach.  He has missed out on some of his recruits, but in all reality, Arkansas hasn't overachieved under Heath.  Usually the sign of a great coach is if the team will play better than expected.  I am not saying Heath is a bad coach, but he hasn't shown yet that he can build a program into a great one yet.

Based on the talent, one would figure the Hogs could break into the top 25 some.

I don't totally disagree with what you have to say.He is not a great coach and he is not a great recruiter just yet.What I do like about Stan is he knows that there are things that he needs to learn and get better at.Unlike another HC on the Hill, Stan is strong enough mentally to take input from coaches that have been around longer then him, such as Dan Hipsher and Glen Cyprien.I look at this staff as a whole and they grade out as a very good staff.

   As the recruiting goes, the best class was the 2006 one that has given us Ervin, Beverley, Weems, Welsh, and Washington.
   The class of 2005 was terrible.Signing Sean McCurdy, Cyrus McGowen, and Ryan McBride is the type of class that gets coaches fired.
    Now sign more classes like the 2006 class and this will be a team entrenched in the top 25.

[dirtydoghog]

As soon as you called Stan a great X and O's coach, I realized how little you really know about bball.   Post much less, read much more! 

[Bomis Hawg]

Al Jefferson..I can deal with.  You sign the guy hoping he comes for a year, then brings in talent later.  What I don't understand is going after Julius Lamptey.  That was Heath's true slip-up early.

Olu was never the same after the knee injury.  He's a bust because he never came into his own.  Had he not been so highly recruited, I'd say no bust.  But, like others, had he went to Michigan State -- we'd say "Heath lost another."

Ryan McBride was a scramble signee.  McCurdy comes from a great HS with a great coach.  Maybe too much stock was in that.  I'm a lost for McGowen.  Highly recruited, squat thus far.

Excluding his first class, only two players weren't recruited by some of the better schools in college hoops.  Isn't that a good thing?  That means other teams miss evaluated some talent.

[Karma]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

I think you are half right. I agree with you that Heath is not a great recruiter.

[Doebuck]

The only fault I have with Heath is it seems that were ready for games but once it's tipped and changes are made in the second half we are not able to adjust to those changes.

[cardinalhawg]

I agree with those who are saying that Heath is a better recruiter than coach.  He has missed out on some of his recruits, but in all reality, Arkansas hasn't overachieved under Heath.  Usually the sign of a great coach is if the team will play better than expected.  I am not saying Heath is a bad coach, but he hasn't shown yet that he can build a program into a great one yet.

Based on the talent, one would figure the Hogs could break into the top 25 some.

I don't totally disagree with what you have to say.He is not a great coach and he is not a great recruiter just yet.What I do like about Stan is he knows that there are things that he needs to learn and get better at.Unlike another HC on the Hill, Stan is strong enough mentally to take input from coaches that have been around longer then him, such as Dan Hipsher and Glen Cyprien.I look at this staff as a whole and they grade out as a very good staff.

   As the recruiting goes, the best class was the 2006 one that has given us Ervin, Beverley, Weems, Welsh, and Washington.
   The class of 2005 was terrible.Signing Sean McCurdy, Cyrus McGowen, and Ryan McBride is the type of class that gets coaches fired.
    Now sign more classes like the 2006 class and this will be a team entrenched in the top 25.

Granted the class of McCurdy, McGowan, and McBride was lacking, and the class of Brewer, Famutimi, Hunter, and Lamptey looked better on paper than it turned out, but his class of Townes, Hill, Thomas, A. Jefferson, D. Jefferson was a decent class.  Of course, A. Jefferson never came, and D. Jefferson did not play well on the Hill, but one would figure with a veteran frontcourt, to go along with the additions of players like Beverly and Ervin, that the team would be playing better overall.  Michael Washington was highly thought of as a recruit, but he is a project that is going to take time.

Heath may be overrated as a recruiter, but the Hogs under Heath basically play at or below expectation level.

[loserhog3-7]

Whatevers

[boarhog12]

King Frank told him that he needed to speed thing up the tempo to put fannies on seats. Once more the King spoke and the underling tries to do what he's told. And once more the fans blame the coach and not the king size problem that is King Frank

[spudhog]

I think Heath is a good X/O coach but I just don't see this team having enough talent to win against really good teams.

Lets consider player that Stan has signed.  Perhaps there are some more but these are the ones I remember.

Ronnie B = stud
Olu F = great athlete but a major brick layer = bust
Dontel Jefferson = bust
Patrick B. = amazing
Sonny Wheems = great addition
Darion Townes = I just don't see a great player.  He is a poor defender and worse, offensively he thinks he is better than he is. = I think an average player
Hill = Amazing offensively but have we seen any improvement in his post up game??? Again I think he would be a role player on most other top 20 teams
Welsh =too young to know
Vincent Hunter = major liability (plays too soft. thinks his jumper is better than it is.  a turnover machine) = bust
McCurdy = too slow to guard talented point guards = more of a liability than asset. plus he can not create his own shot under man to man pressure
Michael Washington = 6'10" softy, no post up game and not a warrior on the boards
Gary Ervin = lost us more games than Olu did last year
Al Jeffers or Jefferson = never made it to campus. Who knows if Stan really won him over or if he just signed with us to get Stan off his back
Cyrus McGowen = still too young but hasn't shown much yet

Okay, I'm saving Thomas for last = I love this guy, but he is undersized to play the 4 position. He is decent find and yes on our team he is the lifeblood, but is that b/c no one else can score the ball in the paint?  DO you really think Charles would be a starter at the 4 for most top 20 teams?

Of the 14 listed I only see 4 that are SEC "quality athletes" and I'm even listing Hill in there which is very controversial!!!

Don't get me wrong.  I like seeing our players learning how to hedge out off screens and working on set plays in the offensive set. I just think he has players that lack enough talent to carry out his game plans.

What say you???

Stew

see, i would put his talent evaluation ahead of his x's and o's. just my opinion.