General recruiting question for the board

[The_Bionic_Pig]

It has become quite apparent the NW Arkansas has slightly surpassed Little Rock/N. Little Rock in the production of SEC talent.  My question is, is it do to Coaching, Facilites, Academic structure, Money???

Because Pine Bluff is coming up fast!!!

I was born and raised in the Mid-Delta (Phillips County) so I have no dog in this fight.

[ricepig]

Hmm, I'm not sure that's true as far as talent is concerned, it definitely is as far as "recruited" talent. There's no doubt facilities, coaching, and academics are superior in NWA over most areas in Arkansas, although coaching is most subjective of the three.

[nwahogfan1]

The reason NWA has surpassed LR area is because of their priority on football in the NWA area as opposed to the LR area.  LR schools are a mess. I think administrators and lawyers are to blame.  Way too much money on busing and law suits and political correctness and way too little money on getting these kids positive opportunities on bettering themselves.

Lawyers and Administrators are winning because they robbing our kids of so much of the school budgets money.

What a country we live in.  It is in a mess.

[cpohog]

I left Arkansas in the mid 80's after graduating high school in 1980. I realize it has been awhile however, back then the top programs were in no specific order; Sylvan Hills, Jacksonville, LR Central, LR Parkview, Jonesboro, Texarkana, Pine Bluff, Pine Bluff Dollarway, Fayetteville,  FS Northside & Southside, El Dorado and even Hot Springs and Benton.

I realize there has been an economic shift from central Arkansas to NWA. Due to Walmart, Tyson etc. This however
should not explain the shift in sports power. Should it?

I also understand that areas such as Greenwood have jumped from 3A to 6A and this could possibly contribute to some of the decline of the FS schools.

What about the youth programs in the areas in the first paragraph? It all starts with a strong foundation in youth league programs such as the YMCA, Boys and Girls Clubs and Optimist. Have these programs been in decline due to loss of interest possibly because of the electronic age? By this I mean PS4, Xbox and all the electronic devices that were not present back when I was growing up.

[sylamore]

And even farther back in the day, LR Central had the outstanding program. Little Rock has over the years shot itself in the gut re both secondary education and athletics.

[ricepig]

I don't live in LR and I can't address the inequities between the different schools, facilities, or faculty, but the athletic facilities, especially for football are atrocious. I did read where a couple of fields are getting turf this season, so there's that.

[Inhogswetrust]

Some schools in central Arkansas and Little Rock to be more specific used to have over 75 to 100 kids try out and perhaps be on the team. Now some of them are lucky to have enough to field a team. I graduated from Jacksonville High School a long time ago. I think the best thing they've ever done was get their own separate school district now.

[wholehog92]

The majority of the upswing in NWA talent is because of an increasing population.  Within the next two census, Benton is projected to be the most populated county in AR.  The difference between those kids being recruited or not is because of the overall investment in youth.  Not just money in facilities and coaches either.  It's all youth programs.  From the absurdly fun to watch little Upward program games put on by churches in the area, to the city leagues, parents volunteer to coach and spend time and take interest in the kids.  We just dumped a ton of money into a bike park designed by a national firm in Rogers.  Let kids know they are an important part of the community and they act like it.  It does take a financial commitment, but that can be overcome with time and work if it has to be.

[scruf]

There's no easy fix to getting the type of athletic infrastructure present in NWA into the rest of the state but if you did, wow. Game changer.

[Philip Seaton]

Don't underestimate the number of coaches too. Far more resources put into it in NWA than central Arkansas. Just the economics of it.

[whosiskid]

It looks to me - just visiting a few campuses - that the NW schools are better funded. You can't underfund school for years and years and not have a lot of negative effects.

Also, nationwide there is a trend for urban areas to produce fewer football players and baseball players, but a lot of basketball players. That seems to hold true of LR/NLR, where a lot of basketball players are produced. It is easier to find a basketball court than a large stretch of turf where you can play football.

[Hogmodo]

It has become quite apparent the NW Arkansas has slightly surpassed Little Rock/N. Little Rock in the production of SEC talent. 

Not sure your premise is accurate.  Because of greater participation, facilities, coaching, and community support in the 6/7A size schools in NWA, they have succeeded at a high level in high school competition, but only Fayetteville doesn't have to import a Malik Monk type athlete to generate SEC talent and the UofA does that for them.  The ethnic group that provides most of the elite athletes in most sports does not reside in large numbers in almost all of the NWA communities.  I agree that the parts of Arkansas WITH the right genes to produce a lot of big, fast, quick, athletes should be doing better.  Cabot is very similar to most of the successful NWA high schools with similar support, facilities, participation, etc.  I cannot recall a D-1 athlete coming out of there in decades despite significant success and he is one of the first african american players that I can remember them having.  Even with the LR school system mess holding back central Arkansas, the private schools, surrounding schools, NLR, Oak Grove, etc. provide as many D-1 caliber recruits as all of NWA schools operating at max effectiveness.  Warren, a 4A school, averages a D-1/future pro every other year and that is with good not great facilities and support.  Only Fayetteville in NWA can say they outdo Warren in producing SEC talent.  You need to discount Fayetteville with their coaches sons, sons of former recruited minority athletes, etc. and look at the rest of the NWA schools compared to elsewhere in the state.  I am a short, average athlete, white guy, and so I have no axe to grind.  Just keeping it real.

[Peter Porker]

Here's an example of what one of the problems is:

When my son was a 9th grader, the Cabot North football team travelled to LR Central for a game. This was the first and only 9th grade game that didn't have cheerleaders, a band, a PA announcer, and the chain gang looked like a couple of guys picked up from the neighborhood. There were about 18 fans in the stands that night. 12 were from Cabot. 2 were Central High football players. It felt like a scrimmage.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

From reading the responses the blue-chippers exist but choose not to participate at a high rate in central Arkansas and it's not exactly a lot of  community support/structure  needed to elevate participation at a younger age. 

For every celebrated H.S. talent  like a Darren McFadden, Michael Dyer, Alter Tenpenny (RIP) that appears every 3-5 yrs their is a Bobby Portis, Archie Goodwin, KeVaughn Allen, Anton Beard that evolves every 12-24 months now in Central Arkansas

[wholehog92]

Here's an example of what one of the problems is:

When my son was a 9th grader, the Cabot North football team travelled to LR Central for a game. This was the first and only 9th grade game that didn't have cheerleaders, a band, a PA announcer, and the chain gang looked like a couple of guys picked up from the neighborhood. There were about 18 fans in the stands that night. 12 were from Cabot. 2 were Central High football players. It felt like a scrimmage.

I typed something similar to your example, but deleted it because the last time I mentioned it a few people took it personally.  My daughter cheers for the freshman at RHS and it's obvious when you go to a school the parents and community do not support.

[Biggus Piggus]

Naw, there's no difference. It's too politically sensitive to point out the differences, so they don't exist.

[ChicoHog]

Naw, there's no difference. It's too politically sensitive to point out the differences, so they don't exist.

I have no dog in this fight but it really is a shame that "political correctness" is a reason not to debate why schools/athletics are successful. 

[HamSammich]

Society and that have nots and the crap parents.


Football starts in pop warner for most big time players in football.

In little Rock you see the degrading of society and the lack of football programs for kids...

You guys realize that when I was a kid boxing and baseball were Americas sports? They degraded in similar fashion. Less kids playing, fewer kids growing up with it,  less interest in the sport.


The easy answer is that its money and LR needs rich people and government to pump money into programs for kids. The hairy answer is that more kids need a pops out side tossing a football to them.

[Oklahawg]

LR schools are a mess. I think administrators and lawyers are to blame.  Way too much money on busing and law suits and political correctness and way too little money on getting these kids positive opportunities on bettering themselves.

Lawyers and Administrators are winning because they robbing our kids of so much of the school budgets money.

Money and Lawyers are not keeping youth from participating.

[Oklahawg]

In OK, like so many states, the political climate is attempting to starve public schools out of existence. Only the schools with growing tax bases (which almost always requires a growing population, and a perpetual growth of new single-family housing) are surviving. Property taxes can be increased to support the local school district, but only to a certain percentage. To see that revenue grow you need the taxable properties to grow.

The schools that meet the above requirements are surviving, and many are putting some amazing facilities in place for the coaches and players to use.

I know of coaches who interview in mid-level school districts who request a tour of the district. They are watching for new housing editions, and upscale housing editions. They may also count multi-family housing (apartments, for example). The former pay the bills, the latter provide the athletes so much of the time.

[HamSammich]

The hairy answer is that more kids need a pops out side tossing a football to them.

[texas tush hog]

It will take a century to repair the damage Judge Henry Woods(Jimmy Carter appointee ) did to the Pulaski County schools, and with it the collateral damage to Little Rock's fantastic football programs of the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The names Wilson Mathews, C.W. Keopple, Bernie Cox, and others are ghosts of the past. Only suicide jockeys will touch these programs now and most will leave after nominal success to save their careers. Sad state affairs. Kudos to all the coaches there now.

[wholehog92]

It will take a century to repair the damage Judge Henry Woods(Jimmy Carter appointee ) did to the Pulaski County schools, and with it the collateral damage to Little Rock's fantastic football programs of the 50's, 60's, and 70's. The names Wilson Mathews, C.W. Keopple, Bernie Cox, and others are ghosts of the past. Only suicide jockeys will touch these programs now and most will leave after nominal success to save their careers. Sad state affairs. Kudos to all the coaches there now.

It will take the land getting cheap enough for a developer (or rather a team of them) to be able to come in and do an urban renewal.  Similar to what happened in "Brick Town" in OKC.  That used to be a place to avoid when the sun was going down.  Now it's got a vibrant night life and commercial and retail back in there.  Before all that started, about anybody could have afforded to buy a property in there.  Now very few can afford it.

The difference between what happened in OKC and Detroit?  The leadership to go in and make tough decisions from the elected leaders.  They had to break a few eggs to make that omelette in OKC.  There were subsidized housing apartments that had to be vacated, there were age old mom and pop businesses that had to conform to the new requirements in the district or be fined out of existence.  They had to sell the idea to people with money and offer some incentives that weren't available to the general public.  They had to do a lot of very unpopular things that didn't play well in the press.

That's what it's going to take in LR.  Looking at the elected leadership right now, that isn't going to happen.  So until the people stop acting like the people of Detroit and begin acting like the people of OKC, Little Rock will continue to spiral down rather than up.  People with the resources to leave will leave.  The city will no longer have the tax base to support the people without the resources to leave and the City poverty rate will continue to rise and all the problems that come with poverty will continue to increase.

[redleg]

The LR School District and the Pulaski Country Special School District have screwed up the public schools in Pulaski county for a few decades now. Basketball is still competitive, but football (other than NLR which is in their own district) has lagged behind thanks to busing issues, desegregation rules, lack of funding, and lack of talented student-athlete participation. There are exceptions of course, but those are few and far between.
Many of the best Razorback football teams have always had a number of players from Little Rock public schools on their rosters, and that has been sadly absent over the last few years. The last really good team that had a strong LR presence was 2006.
Looking at the current roster, there are exactly ZERO players from public schools in Little Rock or Pulaski County! TJ Hammonds went to Pulaski Robinson and will be there this fall.
THAT is pathetic! The largest school district in the state can't produce one single player for the flagship university. I blame the teachers, coaches, and especially the administrators of the LRSD and the PCSSD.
:razorback:

[PorkSoda]

Lawyers and Administrators are winning because they robbing our kids of so much of the school budgets money.

Do you mean, their administrative salaries or that they are moving budget money from athletics to academics?