And then what?????

[BigE_23]

and because at the end of the year everyone would think we were title contenders only to get stomped by Miami or some other program that ran a modern offense in a modern league.

So therefore the whole season was meaningless?? Again, the flawed logic in this thread is astounding!!!!

It's like saying if we went to the Elite 8 every year in the NCAA tournament, but only win one NC, we aren't an elite program. Same logic.

[311Hog]

So therefore the whole season was meaningless?? Again, the flawed logic in this thread is astounding!!!!

It's like saying if we went to the Elite 8 every year in the NCAA tournament, but only win one NC, we aren't an elite program. Same logic.

it isn't meaningless, but it is flawed.  When you have the benefit of hind sight you can see things for how they really were.

Fact is i remember vividly watching those wishbone Barry Foster teams like my life depended on it and even then you could tell that it wasn't going to work in the bowl game.  That our success was "boosted" because we were in the SWC doing something that was clearly on the way out.

A change was on and we were behind

[BigE_23]

it isn't meaningless, but it is flawed.  When you have the benefit of hind sight you can see things for how they really were.

Fact is i remember vividly watching those wishbone Barry Foster teams like my life depended on it and even then you could tell that it wasn't going to work in the bowl game.  That our success was "boosted" because we were in the SWC doing something that was clearly on the way out.

But you're not just applying this logic to the wishbone teams of the 70s/80s, but also to the Petrino coached teams of 2010-11

What benefit of hindsight is there in trying to tear down the success of top 25 finishes?

[311Hog]

But you're not just applying this logic to the wishbone teams of the 70s/80s, but also to the Petrino coached teams of 2010-11

What benefit of hindsight is there in trying to tear down the success of top 25 finishes?

no i am not you are.

The post i quoted was talking about the "last time" the Hogs fielded teams that won 9 games or more in more than 4 straight seasons was in the 80s with Hatfield and the dying wishbone/SWC days.

Petrino had 2 amazing years, that i really really enjoyed.  I felt like we were robbed of our only BCS win because OSU played players that should have been suspended, and even then we found a way to lose it in the end. but because of hind sight i cannot deny that those years arguably 2 of our best years ever surely in the "modern age" of college football we were at best 3rd in our own conference.

That is a tough pill to swallow, and i am not saying it to mean anything about our future or to render our past meaningless.  It is just how it is.

[jst01]

what in the entire history of the program makes you think they could even sustain a stretch of 5-6 of 9+ wins? Could it happen, sure, so could 5 or 6 straight years of 5 or 6 wins too.

That's where you and I are different. I think its worth a try to see if it could happen.  If it doesn't, and we have five straight years of 5 or 6 wins, I guess we would be a notch below where the last five years have been.  Wouldn't kill the program. We'd relieve that coach of his duties and try the next one.

[jst01]

no i am not you are.

The post i quoted was talking about the "last time" the Hogs fielded teams that won 9 games or more in more than 4 straight seasons was in the 80s with Hatfield and the dying wishbone/SWC days.

Petrino had 2 amazing years, that i really really enjoyed.  I felt like we were robbed of our only BCS win because OSU played players that should have been suspended, and even then we found a way to lose it in the end. but because of hind sight i cannot deny that those years arguably 2 of our best years ever surely in the "modern age" of college football we were at best 3rd in our own conference.

That is a tough pill to swallow, and i am not saying it to mean anything about our future or to render our past meaningless.  It is just how it is.

so what we finished 3rd behind two really great teams. Was it fun during the season? Did you enjoy seeing our games highlighted on Sportscenter?  Was kinda nice being in a game that is debated and picked on College Gameday wasn't it?  Relevancy is pretty cool.  Maybe the next time we jump up and have a stretch like that, we are able to win those other two games.

[311Hog]

That's where you and I are different. I think its worth a try to see if it could happen.  If it doesn't, and we have five straight years of 5 or 6 wins, I guess we would be a notch below where the last five years have been.  Wouldn't kill the program. We'd relieve that coach of his duties and try the next one.

and this is where i say both of you IMO including myself are not arguing to keep CBB especially if this season tanks. Had enough time, etc. etc.

The argument centers on what should we realistically expect to happen after CBB is gone.

[jst01]

and this is where i say both of you IMO including myself are not arguing to keep CBB especially if this season tanks. Had enough time, etc. etc.

The argument centers on what should we realistically expect to happen after CBB is gone.

You use every resource you have to identify someone you think can lead the program to more wins. You wont know if it will work until the games start being played. You could end up with another Petrino or it could be another Bret. You have no chance of hitting successfully unless you make the effort.

[GuvHog]

so what we finished 3rd behind two really great teams. Was it fun during the season? Did you enjoy seeing our games highlighted on Sportscenter?  Was kinda nice being in a game that is debated and picked on College Gameday wasn't it?  Relevancy is pretty cool.  Maybe the next time we jump up and have a stretch like that, we are able to win those other two games.

If you are referring to the SEC West standings in 2010, the Hogs finished in second place behind Auburn but ahead of both Bama and LSU.

[311Hog]

You use every resource you have to identify someone you think can lead the program to more wins. You wont know if it will work until the games start being played. You could end up with another Petrino or it could be another Bret. You have no chance of hitting successfully unless you make the effort.

again this is where people are saying this has been done for decades, and the margin between good Petrino and bad Bert is a few games, but still not Championships.

The talk is and has been all about how Petrino showed we could win championships, but even he didn't so where does that leave us?  Also Petrino was/is obviously a flawed human being as we all are but you see my point it is like we bought a discount Corvette because that is the only way we could get one, sure we knew it would go fast, but it also might blow up on us.

[311Hog]

If you are referring to the SEC West standings in 2010, the Hogs finished in second place behind Auburn but ahead of both Bama and LSU.

we lost to bama

[jst01]

again this is where people are saying this has been done for decades, and the margin between good Petrino and bad Bert is a few games, but still not Championships.

The talk is and has been all about how Petrino showed we could win championships, but even he didn't so where does that leave us?  Also Petrino was/is obviously a flawed human being as we all are but you see my point it is like we bought a discount Corvette because that is the only way we could get one, sure we knew it would go fast, but it also might blow up on us.

So what? Keep trying. Keep trying to find the next one. What do you suggest? How does "this has been done a lot and still hasn't worked" change the fact that you still need to try to win more than you have.  Like I said, you might find that coach that can win the 11 games and get over the hump to win the 12th.

[311Hog]

So what? Keep trying. Keep trying to find the next one. What do you suggest? How does "this has been done a lot and still hasn't worked" change the fact that you still need to try to win more than you have.  Like I said, you might find that coach that can win the 11 games and get over the hump to win the 12th.

i suppose it is that whole what is the definition of insanity thing.

Made suggestions before, but i am no one lol alot of what would have to happen to break out mold are very unlikely

[BigE_23]

we lost to bama

But still finished 2nd

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Southeastern_Conference_football_season

[Dr Carl aka Shorthog]

"And then what? Or who would we get?", are such loser questions

[bphi11ips]

Even in the 60's, arguably their most dominant decade, they had 2 losing seasons. The AVERAGES point out exactly what you have said, and what I have said. This is a program that will have the occasional 1 or 2 year run of maybe 10 wins, but then fall back down. It is not going to be year after year 9-10-11 wins.

There is nothing that points to things being any different than they have been for over half a century.

We had one losing season in the 60s and one 5-5.  We also won more games than anyone that decade except Alabama or Texas, who won one more.  It wasn't a one or two year deal.  We had 4 mediocre years in the 70s and 3 in the 80s, but only one where we won less than 7.

We had 12 Top 10 finishes between 1959 and 1989. We finished in the Top 16 five more times.  We had one NC and narrowly missed three others.  We had three head coaches.

You look pretty ridiculous refusing to accept that national media considered Arkansas as a national power for thirty years. Down years didn't change that as a whole, and they didn't come along often . That legacy survives to this day because there are plenty of people with first hand memory of it. 

What Frank Broyles built at Arkansas was pretty incredible, but he had a good foundation.  He was in the right place at the right time.  Bowden Wyatt had unified the state behind the Razorbacks and Jack Mitchell held steady, even though his teams were what we now call mediocre.  Little Rock was growing and WMS was new.  Arkansas and its sea of red fans would help establish college football as a major force on television.Broyles was a big part of that.

In 2017,  the Razorbacks are still really the only big time football team in Arkansas.  The new stadium is now in Fayetteville, and NWA is the fastest growing area of the state.  Bobby Petrino gave fans a taste of what Arkansas can still do.  Brett Bielema is holding serve.  Will he be the next Frank Broyles?  Maybe, maybe not.  But don't try and tell those of us who know better that what we saw happen in the 60s, 70s and 80s didn't happen, or that it can't happen again.

[311Hog]

But still finished 2nd

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Southeastern_Conference_football_season

yep but if i remember right in the final AP poll we finished behind Auburn, Bama and LSU

[BigE_23]

yep but if i remember right in the final AP poll we finished behind Auburn, Bama and LSU

But still finished 2nd in the SEC-W and went to a BCS Bowl

[Wildhog]

But still finished 2nd in the SEC-W and went to a BCS Bowl

What a ride.  Seeing that sea of red and hearing the Hog calls on Bourbon St was just an incredible experience. 

[NaturalStateReb]

Would depend on who is hired.  The majority here seems to want a spread offense.  If it is a spread where the qb isn't asked to run much then may would be ok.  6-7 270 lb Cole Kelley isn't going to look like Deshaun Watson, Manziel, Chad Kelly etc if the offense would depend on the qb running.  Personnel fit would matter. 

I didn't realize Kelly was 270.  That's closing in on Jacob Lorenzen numbers.  That's a big guy.

[Wildhog]

I didn't realize Kelly was 270.  That's closing in on Jacob Lorenzen numbers.  That's a big guy.

He doesn't look it, and he's pretty darn mobile, too.

[BigE_23]

What a ride.  Seeing that sea of red and hearing the Hog calls on Bourbon St was just an incredible experience.

But it can never happen again...just a flash in the pan according to this thread.

[factchecker]

I didn't realize Kelly was 270.  That's closing in on Jacob Lorenzen numbers.  That's a big guy.

But not fat.  Kelley is just a big dude.

[NaturalStateReb]

But not fat.  Kelley is just a big dude.

He'd be hard to bring down.

[311Hog]

But it can never happen again...just a flash in the pan according to this thread.

yep that is what ppl are saying.  Question would you bet a year's salary on it happening again in 10 20 your life time?

Because someone recognizes statistics and probability and history doesn't mean it will never happen.

[jst01]

But it can never happen again...just a flash in the pan according to this thread.

Ever.  If you create an excel spreadsheet model and calculate average wins over the entire history, there is no way a different coach could win more than 8 wins on average.

[Porkchop#1]

I disagree whole-heartedly. I believe Bert is Danny Ford 2.0

There's talent on this team, the problem is that there isn't any desire or passion. This is a team without leadership. It's a rudderless vessel. The right guy could come in and motivate this team to 8-10 wins in year one.

I don't trust Jeffrey to find the right guy...let alone get rid of the wrong one that he hired in the first place.

Ding ding...we have a winner.  Right on all counts.

[hogsanity]

But it can never happen again...just a flash in the pan according to this thread.

No one, not one person in this thread has said that can not happen again. Matter of fact most people say we will have a season like that again, but it will not be sustainable. Wasn't for JFB, or Holtz, or Hatfield, or HDN, or BP ( although that can never be proven ).

Some of you are the best at seeing actual words, and reading something that is not there.

[GuvHog]

We finished #5 in the country in the AP poll.

It was terrible.

That was in 2011. We are talking about 2010 when the Hogs finished #12 nationally.

[East TN HAWG]

I'm not sure if regurgitating another coach is the answer.  Call us poor pitiful Arkansaw or whatever.  I don't care.  Except one year under CBP, the only times we've been relevant was when Bama was down.

TN, USC, MS St, Ole Miss, FL, Vandy, KY, TX A$M, Mizzou all of them are going through the same thing.  We all hire and fire every 5 years, and there has been some really good coaches hired and fired (ie: Holtz, Spurrier, etc). 

The answer is not with the University of Arkansas' head coach.  Its with junior level (K-12) football within the state and particularly in central AR where the majority of the athletes live.  Those schools/leagues need more resources.  If we want to win, then fix school athletics budget issues.  The talent level will improve, and it will naturally funnel up to the instate schools. It would take abut a decade or longer to fix the problem. 

Fire CBB hire Gruden, it won't matter until the root cause is addressed and fixed.  If nothing is done, then we will all be talking about next year through year four, complaining during year five, and starting the cycle all over again year one. 

[jst01]

The answer is not with the University of Arkansas' head coach.  Its with junior level (K-12) football within the state and particularly in central AR where the majority of the athletes live.  Those schools/leagues need more resources.  If we want to win, then fix school athletics budget issues.  The talent level will improve, and it will naturally funnel up to the instate schools. It would take abut a decade or longer to fix the problem. 

It's not the UofA's responsibility to fix that problem so that isn't an option. Recruit other states and be good at it. That is more likely.

[Gonzo]

So therefore the whole season was meaningless?? Again, the flawed logic in this thread is astounding!!!!

It's like saying if we went to the Elite 8 every year in the NCAA tournament, but only win one NC, we aren't an elite program. Same logic.

See? Now you get it. The Atlanta Braves won 14 straight division titles, but only managed to win one World Series during that stretch, so it really wasn't all that impressive. Don't even get me started on the how bad the Bills sucked losing 4 straight Super Bowls. Anything other than a championship is meaningless and all equal, no matter the record. 4-8, 9-3, meh, all the same.



Go Hogs!

[Hogwild]

Yeah, I realized my mistake there and changed it. A win over LSU would have put the Hogs in a 3 way tie for the West title. the Hogs would have been easily ranked #2 nationally with that win.

If we were 2nd who would have been first? 
LSU had already defeated the eventually Rose Bowl Champs (Oregon) and Orange Bowl Champs (West Vir) that season both on the road.  Even if LSU fell to  in 3rd in the Coaches Poll, which was doubtful, their computer score would have had them the highest rated SEC team in the BCS, and a berth in Atlanta.

[bphi11ips]

No one, not one person in this thread has said that can not happen again. Matter of fact most people say we will have a season like that again, but it will not be sustainable. Wasn't for JFB, or Holtz, or Hatfield, or HDN, or BP ( although that can never be proven ).

Some of you are the best at seeing actual words, and reading something that is not there.

Maybe you can forgive them since you can be presented with actual facts and deny they exist.

Frank Broyles, Lou Holtz and Ken Hatfield sustained success.  Period.  You want to define success as 10-11 wins per year, every year for years.  No one here but you defines it that way.  Few coaches outside of Nick Saban have ever done that.  Bear Bryant did in the 70s.  Bud Wilkinson did at Oklahoma.  Tom Osborne did at Nebraska.  Bo Schembechler did it at Michigan.  Spurrier did it at Florida. Barry Switzer pretty much did it at Oklahoma. That's pretty much it.  Darrell Royal didn't do it.  Woody Hayes didn't do it.  In fact, of the coaches who have done it, except Spurrier, three coached at schools that are in the top 5 best programs of all time, and the other, Osborne, coached at number 7 Nebraska.  We don't confuse Arkansas with any of those schools.

[GuvHog]

If we were 2nd who would have been first? 
LSU had already defeated the eventually Rose Bowl Champs (Oregon) and Orange Bowl Champs (West Vir) that season both on the road.  Even if LSU fell to  in 3rd in the Coaches Poll, which was doubtful, their computer score would have had them the highest rated SEC team in the BCS, and a berth in Atlanta.

When Arkansas took the field against LSU in 2011, the national rankings were as follows:

1. Alabama
2. LSU
3. Arkansas

If the Hogs had won, they would have moved up to #2 and LSU would have dropped in the polls. It would have been a Hogs-Bama rematch in the National title game.

[crazyrazy]

And we lost to both those teams 42-17.

[GuvHog]

And we lost to both those teams 42-17.

Correct and I'd still take the #5 nationally ranked finish anytime. My point is, even after the loss to Bama, the Hogs were still within one game of playing for the national title.

[Wildhog]

And we lost to both those teams 42-17.

We lost to Bama 38-14 and LSU 41-17

[HiggiePiggy]

no it didnt suck, but know what it did ? we got railed by Bama and Lsu, we lost the BCS bowl in silly fashion.

Nothing about that changes our narrative as a program the last 30 years.

Lost in silly fashion?  You act as if we were blown out in that game which you know is not true. We actually had a winning drive going only to be stopped by an INT.  Only reason we didn't go to another BCS the next year is because of the rule of only 2 teams from a conference and the 2 teams happen to be playing in the National Championship game. 

Some of our fans really just want to ignore how great of a coach BP was here because they hate him so much. 25 years in the SEC and our best stretch was 2010 and 2011.  6-2 in conference both years. 

It also changed the minds of many in Arkansas SEEING that we can win double digit games a year with the right coach. 

[Gonzo]

And we lost to both those teams 42-17.

Despite your inaccurate scores which WH noted, do you also realize that outside of each other, only once did either team have a closer score than with the Hogs? Yes, the Hogs were a fairly distant 3rd in the division, but they very well may have been the 3rd best team in the country as well. Yet for some of y'all, all that matters is they lost badly to Bama and LSU......just like every other team.........so the year really wasn't all that good. Lol.


Go Hogs!

[311Hog]

Lost in silly fashion?  You act as if we were blown out in that game which you know is not true. We actually had a winning drive going only to be stopped by an INT.  Only reason we didn't go to another BCS the next year is because of the rule of only 2 teams from a conference and the 2 teams happen to be playing in the National Championship game. 

Some of our fans really just want to ignore how great of a coach BP was here because they hate him so much. 25 years in the SEC and our best stretch was 2010 and 2011.  6-2 in conference both years. 

It also changed the minds of many in Arkansas SEEING that we can win double digit games a year with the right coach. 

you saw that pick and the fact i believe the player that caught it would normally be suspended for receiving benefits by selling "swag" as silly? because i sure do.

Only Arkansas would lose in such fashion in their first BCS bowl game.  THose OSU players get suspended like anyone else would expect we win that game easy.  Mallett doesn't scantron one in we win etc. "King of the Almost".

[GuvHog]

you saw that pick and the fact i believe the player that caught it would normally be suspended for receiving benefits by selling "swag" as silly? because i sure do.

Only Arkansas would lose in such fashion in their first BCS bowl game.  THose OSU players get suspended like anyone else would expect we win that game easy.  Mallett doesn't scantron one in we win etc. "King of the Almost".

If a young freshman scoops and scores instead of falling on a blocked punt, the Hogs win. It's just that simple.

[311Hog]

If a young freshman scoops and scores instead of falling on a blocked punt, the Hogs win. It's just that simple.

again thanks for proving my point. Silly fashion.....

[East TN HAWG]

It's not the UofA's responsibility to fix that problem so that isn't an option. Recruit other states and be good at it. That is more likely.

Your right its not.  But things are not going to get better until it happens. 

[Hogwild]

When Arkansas took the field against LSU in 2011, the national rankings were as follows:

1. Alabama
2. LSU
3. Arkansas

If the Hogs had won, they would have moved up to #2 and LSU would have dropped in the polls. It would have been a Hogs-Bama rematch in the National title game.

You are wrong. 
LSU was undefeated, and the unanimous #1 team in the country, with one of the highest BCS point total in BCS history  LSU had been #1 since the end of the first month of the season with roads wins over #3 Oregon, #25 Miss. St and #15 West Virginia. That was before they went on the road again beat #2 Alabama.  They also defeated Florida, Tennessee, and UGA from the East. I don't know if LSU falls from #1 even with a loss to us, depending on the score. 

[elksnort]

5 years is long enough.

If the team does not at least win 7 and then compete well in the bowl game, then can his ass.

[GuvHog]

You are wrong. 
LSU was undefeated, and the unanimous #1 team in the country, with one of the highest BCS point total in BCS history  LSU had been #1 since the end of the first month of the season with roads wins over #3 Oregon, #25 Miss. St and #15 West Virginia. That was before they went on the road again beat #2 Alabama.  They also defeated Florida, Tennessee, and UGA from the East. I don't know if LSU falls from #1 even with a loss to us, depending on the score. 

Then reverse it:

1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Arkansas

My point still stands. A Hog win over LSU would have moved the Hogs into a 3 way tie for the SEC West title with LSU and Bama plus the Hogs would have moved up to at least #2 in the nation putting them in the national title game.

[IronHog]

You are wrong. 
LSU was undefeated, and the unanimous #1 team in the country, with one of the highest BCS point total in BCS history  LSU had been #1 since the end of the first month of the season with roads wins over #3 Oregon, #25 Miss. St and #15 West Virginia. That was before they went on the road again beat #2 Alabama.  They also defeated Florida, Tennessee, and UGA from the East. I don't know if LSU falls from #1 even with a loss to us, depending on the score. 

Loss at home ='s drop

[12247]

I really believed this would be the year that BB come storming to the forefront.  He would save Long from the embarrassment  of making a silly decision about the buyout.  He would declare year 5 as his and make it so.  Not an unbeaten season or something like that but no weak, pitiful outings, no box of rocks stupid plays, no reasons to wonder why, why , why.  No slow season start.  We would whip the weaklings, win against the similiars and gracefully give every team we played reason to worry due to the all out effort.

WRONG.  Got to understand BB either hasn't got or refuses to give it and either way we lose.  From me no more wait till next year or even next game.  He is a grown man and has the responsibility to put a respectable team on the field, period.  He has failed.

[BigE_23]

Then reverse it:

1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Arkansas

My point still stands. A Hog win over LSU would have moved the Hogs into a 3 way tie for the SEC West title with LSU and Bama plus the Hogs would have moved up to at least #2 in the nation putting them in the national title game.

Also not likely true...

In the build up for the LSU matchup, the analyst and prognosticators all said that even if Arkansas beat LSU, they would likely have stayed at 3rd.

LSU's average was so high that the projections showed even a loss wouldn't have dropped them past 2nd

If LSU had somehow dropped down below us, even for a week, Alabama would have played in the SEC championship game and ended up #1 and we would have likely been overtaken by either Oklahoma State or Stanford.

The only reason that didn't happen to Alabama is because they're, well...Alabama.