I Misread this NIT/Heath Deal Completely

[WilsonHog]

Two days ago I wouldn't have believed for a minute that we would decline a NIT bid.  I also would have believed that if we did, that decision would signal the end of the Stan Heath era at Arkansas in pretty short order, especially if it was made because we were "tired, drained, and lacked cohesiveness."   

Looks like I couldn't have been more wrong.  It may be an ingredient in his ultimate dismissal, but only if we have a repeat next year. 

Here's what makes no sense to me.  On the surface we declined the bid because the team doesn't have the will or desire to play in the tournament. We seem to have chemistry problems that have contributed to that mindset. Problem is, we only lose one player to graduation. That means we either have the same folks back next year and hope that a few months away from basketball will magically cure the problem, or we make a few walk the plank and start over. Neither is good, when what we should have had was an experienced team coming back ready to make a serious run at the SEC in year four of the Heath era.

Maybe, on the other hand, the decision not to play was made because another loss would have likely resulted in Heath's immediate dismissal. There's a ringing endorsement for the direction of a program and a coach's career.  "I'm one more loss away from getting the boot, so I choose not to play." 

Perhaps JFB agreed with Heath for non-basketball reasons. If we had suffered another bad loss, especially to UALR, UAB, or Oral Roberts, the pressure to fire Heath would have been huge. Problem is, no one wants to pull the plug just yet because of the fear, misplaced or not, that it would lend credence to Nolan's claims. 

Any way you slice it or dice it, Arkansas basketball is in a mess that we haven't seen since the early 1970s.

[HogInMemphis]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice. 

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like.  So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

[Macgyver_Hawg]

That's what I thougt, Wilson, either way you're digging yourself a hole.
Keep the same group or start over.  Pretty much means you need miracles to win next year.

I know now from talking to people who have never been on a message board that the interest level will be pretty low next year.  Fans want their team to win but they've been fooled for too long.  Winning takes the back seat for job security.

Will people still come to games?  Probably, but only for a social event.  Tickets are being given away left and right to all the cell phone addicts and their friends.

[HogInMemphis]

That's what I thougt, Wilson, either way you're digging yourself a hole.
Keep the same group or start over.  Pretty much means you need miracles to win next year.

I know now from talking to people who have never been on a message board that the interest level will be pretty low next year.  Fans want their team to win but they've been fooled for too long.  Winning takes the back seat for job security.

Will people still come to games?  Probably, but only for a social event.  Tickets are being given away left and right to all the cell phone addicts and their friends.

Is that anything new? Haven't non-conf. games typically been drawing 50% capacity crowds for the last couple of years? And even some SEC games? May be a little off there but I know many games for at least the last two years have been far from capacity crowds.

[Macgyver_Hawg]

I thought this season had pretty good crowds after 9 and 12 win seasons.

Next year we'll see how bad it can get because I think we'll have the same type of team.  I hope they'll prove me wrong.

[bigt54]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I can definatly see your argument, but with the regulations on practice time, and no chances to right the ship (if it can be righted) makes accepting the NIT logical.  We are going to be seen as a bad team whether we go to the NIT or not.  I just think that the practice time and at least one more game situation makes the NIT worth while. 

What does it say to your players if you turn down more games cause you are afraid they may get beat by ORU or UALR.  Heath said this last week he still believed in his players and then thinks they might get embarrassed. 

No wonder the players are ticked.  I want a coach that no matter who we are playing feels we have a chance.  That is one thing we miss from Nolan, with all his downfalls, his teams always believed they could win.  This team doesn't.

[cmakrzrbak]

Couldn't have said it better myself Big T.  This is pathetic.  You don't quit in sports.  Period.  You play until they tell you you cant play anymore.  Eff the folks saying it was a good move.  It set us back further back than Vanilla Ice set back the Caucasian race.

[Kid Duroc]

I still say it might have had something to do with being asked to play on UALR's home floor.

[rathog1]

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

Can we decline playing USC next year?

[gatecrasher]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I hate the NIT too but don't you think this team needs all the game-time and practices it can get??  This team has played 30 games this year and their identity is so unrecognizable they don't even know each other's names!!  I agree that the NIT is a "mediocrity convention" as I like to put it, but THIS team needs, if nothing else, the extra work in the gym and games!

[HogInMemphis]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I hate the NIT too but don't you think this team needs all the game-time and practices it can get??  This team has played 30 games this year and their identity is so unrecognizable they don't even know each other's names!!  I agree that the NIT is a "mediocrity convention" as I like to put it, but THIS team needs, if nothing else, the extra work in the gym and games!

If they've played 30 and are worse than when they started, what's 1 more game going to do for them after their attitude is what it is after these last 4 or 5 games? 

1 more game will do nothing but possibly make it worse and cost Heath his job.

Did "one more game and all the extra practice" help Nutt and the football Razorbacks when they accepted a bid to the LV Bowl a few years ago? It absolutely did not help them. And I stated on the board back then they should have decilined it before the officially accepted it....of course they accepted and then went out and got embarrassed by UNLV, that football powerhouse.

[jabohog]

I think the extra time for playing and practicing are a good thing if you have an up and coming team. This team digressed at the end of the year and another game will not help them. When you begin a season, the main focus should be on the SEC West, then the SEC overall championship. If you do this, the rest will take care of itself. The NIT should be used only for gain and in this case I don't see the gain. Only another chance to be embarrassed by poor play.

[Biggus Piggus]

This team wouldn't "voom" if you put 5,000 volts through it.  It is a dead parrot.

[Macgyver_Hawg]

This team wouldn't "voom" if you put 5,000 volts through it. It is a dead parrot.

I think we ought to replace the hogs on our unis with dead parrots.

Oh, and "Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue. Beautiful plumage"

[hoghoghog]

The reason the Razorbacks are not playing in the tournament is because this bunch of players RIGHT NOW don't deserve the right to play. PERIOD!!

[Kevin]

win they will come.  8000 at hog baseball game vs.  eastern illinios

[tophawg19]

Can we refuse to play kentucky & the other good teams because we are tired .What happens if 1 of our guys go pro .Over 100 games a year he would fall dead.

[Anti-OtisII]

The reason the Razorbacks are not playing in the tournament is because this bunch of players RIGHT NOW don't deserve the right to play. PERIOD!!

I completely agree and I'm not about to change my opinion because all of the whiners crying about us looking like a bunch of quitters.  Face the facts, this team right now at the end of this season IS A BUNCH OF QUITTERS.  They don't deserve to play anymore this year and more practice time for a bunch of guys that don't have their heart in the game isn't going to do any good. 

I know a lot of people think SH chickened out because he was afraid of losing his job, but I have a sneaking suspicion that JFB made the final decision as he pointed out to SH that this team is not deserving or ready to play anymore games this year.  Every player on this team should have to clean out their locker and come back this fall and earn back their scholarship if they really want to be Razorback BB players.  Let those that don't want to make the sacrifice go elsewhere....we don't need them anymore. 

[tophawg19]

Tough love . sounds about right . that team conditioning is terrible .They were grabbing shorts and bending over The kind opopponet Nolan loved to play against .Cut off the head the body will die . not all about Nolan was bad or wrong .

[gatecrasher]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I hate the NIT too but don't you think this team needs all the game-time and practices it can get??  This team has played 30 games this year and their identity is so unrecognizable they don't even know each other's names!!  I agree that the NIT is a "mediocrity convention" as I like to put it, but THIS team needs, if nothing else, the extra work in the gym and games!

If they've played 30 and are worse than when they started, what's 1 more game going to do for them after their attitude is what it is after these last 4 or 5 games? 

1 more game will do nothing but possibly make it worse and cost Heath his job.

Did "one more game and all the extra practice" help Nutt and the football Razorbacks when they accepted a bid to the LV Bowl a few years ago? It absolutely did not help them. And I stated on the board back then they should have decilined it before the officially accepted it....of course they accepted and then went out and got embarrassed by UNLV, that football powerhouse.

They lost the Las Vegas Bowl because the players were gallavanting on the Las Vegas Strip the night before the game.  I've gallavanted there myself and believe me, It's easy for 18-21 year old kids to be gallavanted out there before a football game.  My most embarassing moment as a Hog football fan...well, the Music City Bowl wasn't much better.  I see your point, and I know exactly where you are coming from...very valid points, but do u honestly think Heath would be fired for losing to UAB or UALR or A-State in the first round? 

[SultanofSwine]

We have a team of players that obviously can't get along and a coaching staff that can't coach. If they are not going to replace the ENTIRE staff then they should allow perrenial season ticket holders the option of a standby season so they can skip the torture that will be next season but keep the seats for the following year when we can start over.

8000 showed up for a non-conf baseball game because the product on the field is top quality, the staff knows how to coach and handle young men and they play hard all the time which equates to wins. All things that neither the football or basketball team seem to comprehend in the least.

[HogInMemphis]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I hate the NIT too but don't you think this team needs all the game-time and practices it can get??  This team has played 30 games this year and their identity is so unrecognizable they don't even know each other's names!!  I agree that the NIT is a "mediocrity convention" as I like to put it, but THIS team needs, if nothing else, the extra work in the gym and games!

If they've played 30 and are worse than when they started, what's 1 more game going to do for them after their attitude is what it is after these last 4 or 5 games? 

1 more game will do nothing but possibly make it worse and cost Heath his job.

Did "one more game and all the extra practice" help Nutt and the football Razorbacks when they accepted a bid to the LV Bowl a few years ago? It absolutely did not help them. And I stated on the board back then they should have decilined it before the officially accepted it....of course they accepted and then went out and got embarrassed by UNLV, that football powerhouse.

They lost the Las Vegas Bowl because the players were gallavanting on the Las Vegas Strip the night before the game.  I've gallavanted there myself and believe me, It's easy for 18-21 year old kids to be gallavanted out there before a football game.  My most embarassing moment as a Hog football fan...well, the Music City Bowl wasn't much better.  I see your point, and I know exactly where you are coming from...very valid points, but do u honestly think Heath would be fired for losing to UAB or UALR or A-State in the first round? 

Yes, I think that or I wouldn't have said it. I would be shocked if Hogs lost to UALR or A St. and Heath wasn't fired afterwards. I think that's why they didn't choose to play an NIT game. Heath can't count on this bunch to get a win and he was scared of losing his job right now.This way, he can keep it at least one more year.

[gatecrasher]

Makes for some decent drama doesn't it? I like it. A little spice.

I know most don't agree with this decision to not accept the NIT bid, but I have to say I like it. I think it takes guts to decline something like that. As some know, I'm also an advocate of declining bowl bids when you are 6-5 and .500 or worse in your conference. Same reasoning is applied to accepting bids to the NIT.

I think an excellent analogy to the NIT is the following: what if there was a tourney that invited teams that weren't invited to the NIT? Assume the invite criteria is that the team won more than 50% of the last half of their schedule but may have had a losing season. So basically, it's a tourney for teams that finished strong but may be 13-16 or the like. So do we go to that tourney if we meet the criteria? Where does it stop?

The NIT is like a poor man's honor roll. What don't schools have an "honor roll" for "C" students? They didn't make D's of F's or incompletes but they weren't quite smart enough to make a 3.0 and get on the legit honor roll. Why have these sorts of 2nd tier and 3rd tier tourneys and bowl games where the only people even half way interested in them are the fans of the teams playing? No national interest at all.

If my team can't make the NCAAT or one of the top dozen bowls, then forget it. I think it's a sign of intelligence and courage to decline to accept a reward for mediocrity.

I hate the NIT too but don't you think this team needs all the game-time and practices it can get??  This team has played 30 games this year and their identity is so unrecognizable they don't even know each other's names!!  I agree that the NIT is a "mediocrity convention" as I like to put it, but THIS team needs, if nothing else, the extra work in the gym and games!

If they've played 30 and are worse than when they started, what's 1 more game going to do for them after their attitude is what it is after these last 4 or 5 games? 

1 more game will do nothing but possibly make it worse and cost Heath his job.

Did "one more game and all the extra practice" help Nutt and the football Razorbacks when they accepted a bid to the LV Bowl a few years ago? It absolutely did not help them. And I stated on the board back then they should have decilined it before the officially accepted it....of course they accepted and then went out and got embarrassed by UNLV, that football powerhouse.

They lost the Las Vegas Bowl because the players were gallavanting on the Las Vegas Strip the night before the game.  I've gallavanted there myself and believe me, It's easy for 18-21 year old kids to be gallavanted out there before a football game.  My most embarassing moment as a Hog football fan...well, the Music City Bowl wasn't much better.  I see your point, and I know exactly where you are coming from...very valid points, but do u honestly think Heath would be fired for losing to UAB or UALR or A-State in the first round? 

Yes, I think that or I wouldn't have said it. I would be shocked if Hogs lost to UALR or A St. and Heath wasn't fired afterwards. I think that's why they didn't choose to play an NIT game. Heath can't count on this bunch to get a win and he was scared of losing his job right now.This way, he can keep it at least one more year.

So basically he's using the EXCUSE that the kids are tired in order to cover his own a$$...You know, when he was hired I didn't like it but I thought he was a decent guy.  Now, I'm starting to not like the person.  I've never liked him as coach and now I'm starting to not like him as a human being.  Because I don't believe for one minute that these kids don't want to play basketball.  Period.